Census form

[Wilma]

Where were you when Social Security was created?  What was the condition of the country at that time?  Did your father ever dig ditches with a shovel because that was the only work that could be found?  Did your mother stretch a small can of condensed milk to provide for four children by adding sugar so they would drink it?  Have you any idea at all why social security was started?  It wasn't to take away what little bit of money anyone could scratch up.  It was to provide a savings plan for them that would be paid back when they were too old or unable to do compensated work.  It was to provide for them so that they wouldn't be a burden to their children in their old age.  Now you are complaining about providing for your grandparents?  Would you rather they lived with you and you took care of all their medical needs, changed their diapers, watched them constantly so that they didn't stray into danger?  Sounds a lot like children, doesn't it.  Well, I have news for you.  It is worse than children, because they are never going to be potty trained or remember that it is dangerous to stand in the middle of the road.  Which would you rather do, pay into the fund that is taking care of them or be financially and physically responsible for their care?  And remember, you can never leave them alone, someone has to stay home with them.  You can't send them off to school for the day while you work.  You can get a caretaker, but they have to be paid.  Would your wages cover the cost of caring for them?  What are you going to do?

I know what your response is going to be.  "I would if the government wasn't stealing my money."  Really.  Just how far would the amount that is taken out of your pay go towards paying for the medicine, medical care and babysitter you would need?

[sixdogsmom]

Times would go back to what they were before social security for sure, maybe worse. There does not seem to be much compassion in the world these days, just mine, mine, mine. Social Security came about because old people were not being cared for; that was a great fear for the oldsters. How would they eat and keep warm when they get old, still a worry, but not like there used to be. Like losing your job, no unemployment insurance, and no prospects. At least you have your health.

[greatguns]

We know how you feel about your elders.   I can't imagine that you would not want your children to have it if, God forbid, something to you.  I'm sure your spouse would find it helpful.  Maybe if you became disabled tomorrow it would help ends meet.

[srkruzich]

We know how you feel about your elders.   I can't imagine that you would not want your children to have it if, God forbid, something to you.  I'm sure your spouse would find it helpful.  Maybe if you became disabled tomorrow it would help ends meet.

you know something, unfortunately i would not wish this existance on anyone.  I would rather be working making good money than living on 15k a year having to decide whether or not i am going to get meds or eat.  I ran out of firewood in january and haven't had heat since then.  No money to buy wood and can't get out and cut any.  IF it weren't for critters i wouldn't have much food at all. at least i get eggs  n milk.

Varmit i am in agreement up to a point on the SS.  IF they would lump sum me what i paid in, i would go that route.  I could take it and use it to make enough money to give me a better life.  But being that it is, i paid into it by force, i will draw out every dime i can.

[Wilma]

Every time the subject of what someone has paid into social security and how much it pays out, I have been bothered by something.  So, I went to my computer and having one of my husband's last pay stubs available and being able to remember some things, I did some calculating.  By taking the soc. sec. contribution of his last pay check and calculating a contribution from what I remember his first pay check to be, I come up with an estimated $47,880 that he paid into the social security fund during the 38 years that he worked.  Now by using what I remember his first soc. sec. check to be and what I am receiving now, I averaged the amounts times the 18 years we have drawn social security.  My estimated figure is $260,000 that my husband and I have received.  I can honestly say that I am quite comfortable.

I am also wondering just how a person would invest that $47,880 eighteen years ago that would have paid that kind of return.  Actually how would you invest your monthly soc. sec. contribution right now to produce that kind of return, taking into account of course the vagaries of the stock market.

Someone said that it isn't how much you have it is how you take care of it.  I can honestly say that if it hadn't been done for us, that I probably wouldn't even own my home now.

[sixdogsmom]

You still see a few mother-in-law houses around although most are not being lived in. These are the little one room houses built for the parent in the back yard of the family home. Often Mom (or dad), lived in these little one room affairs to the end of their days. A minimum of amenities and no indoor plumbing, maybe a couple of dollars a month in electricity. No, it didn't pay to live beyond your ability to work; you became a burden on your family or society in general.

[srkruzich]

Every time the subject of what someone has paid into social security and how much it pays out, I have been bothered by something.  So, I went to my computer and having one of my husband's last pay stubs available and being able to remember some things, I did some calculating.  By taking the soc. sec. contribution of his last pay check and calculating a contribution from what I remember his first pay check to be, I come up with an estimated $47,880 that he paid into the social security fund during the 38 years that he worked.  Now by using what I remember his first soc. sec. check to be and what I am receiving now, I averaged the amounts times the 18 years we have drawn social security.  My estimated figure is $260,000 that my husband and I have received.  I can honestly say that I am quite comfortable.

I paid max ss for the last 15 years i worked.  something to the tune of 225,000.00 @15%.  the previous 13 years i paid in a average of 3000 a year @ 7.5% , so another 45,000 for a total of 270,000 dollars over my work history.
This is not counting medicare tax or fed and state taxes.

RIght now i only get 15k a year back.  So it will take me 20 -25 years to get back what i paid in.

I am also wondering just how a person would invest that $47,880 eighteen years ago that would have paid that kind of return.  Actually how would you invest your monthly soc. sec. contribution right now to produce that kind of return, taking into account of course the vagaries of the stock market.

SImple
look at this chart.  It shows where i could have taken the same money withheld and invested it in the stock market.  In 1999 i could have bought in at 60 a share, and in 2000 when it hit 120 a share  i would have sold it off and paid the tax on it then shorted the fund while it came down and sold again in 2002, paid the tax on my capital gains and rebought the stock again and rode it out.  Stocks go in cycles. 
The fund i am talking about is the QQQQ fund
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=QQQQ#chart1:symbol=qqqq;range=my;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

In short, from 1999 i could have doubled my money by 2001.  SOld off, shorted the stock again with 500k and made an additional 416,000 dollars profit when it hit 20 dollars a share, which would give me after taxes 800k.  BUy in again on the q fund and hold it throughout 2002 - 2008 when the housing bubble burst. we had all kinds of warning about it and anyone that invested knew that it was about to cave. So most of the folks pulled their money and that is why the market crashed like it did.  The only ones who lost any money when the market plumeted was the folks that either were greedy or were wearing rose colored glasses to begin with.  MOST of the people in the market did not lose their money, they pulled it out of the markets and sat on it and are still sitting on it.
Right now the Qfund is rising because those people are putting their money back into the fund.

The fund is safe.  IF you look at the chart it has not gone below 20 a share throughout all the turmoil of 9/11 and the market crash.  Its solid.  I would have taken in 2002 and bought 800k worht of shares in it, and still be holding today.

SO if i had the initial money i have invested into SS, 250k i would have today 2,000,000 dollars.

Someone said that it isn't how much you have it is how you take care of it.  I can honestly say that if it hadn't been done for us, that I probably wouldn't even own my home now.

I don't need anyone managing my money, i do quite well myself.

[Wilma]

So how much did you invest in this miraculous Qfund? 

[Varmit]

Wilma, you are assuming that every old person will develop althzimers, dementia, etc.  And while some do others don't.  None of my grandparents did.  Oh, and the "we've had it so much harder than you" line...give it a rest.  YES, my father has dug ditches, and there were times when condensed milk would have been a treat. 

But you know what, I am done arguing this point, it is obiovus you'll never get it.  You don't give a damn so long as somebody else is footing the bill.  You know the difference between welfare recipients and drug addicts?.....nothing.

[pamagain]

You know the difference between welfare recipients and drug addicts?.....nothing.

Bullshit. Lifetime welfare recipients MAYBE.......women like me who got rid of a worthless husband and took help till we could get a job lined out....NOT even close. I have dug ditches, shoveled shit, and a whole bunch of OTHER crappy jobs to take care of my kids. I AM not ashamed of the help I got to start with. I am NOT and never HAVE been a drug addict. Think about it before you go shootin off your mouth and generalizin about people and situations.