Socialist Public Schools In America

[larryJ]

I have been seeing this conversation about "government schools" and I had stayed away because I didn't want to appear stupid and uninformed.  However, my curiosity has overridden my fear of looking totally ignorant.

What------are government schools?  Are these special schools aside from public schools?  I saw a statement that educators, principles, etc., are paid government employees.  Here in California, there are public schools and private schools and some choose to home school their children.  The public schools are supported by property taxes levied on each house in the county even if those living in those houses don't have school age children.  More money comes from the State from its education fund and a pittance from the state lottery.  So, I guess that makes them government schools because the money comes from the government and the taxpayers.  And, I guess the employees (teachers, etc.), could be considered government employees.  But, the way you are saying "government schools" makes them sound ominous.

In the history of this country, schools were basically private schools as each community supplied its own school and school teacher and the costs were shared by the citizens of the community.  I think that the current school system is basically the same thing, but on a larger scale.  So I find it hard to see the difference.

Okay, I guess I am just ignorant in my old age.  My children and I paid for their college education and one is still paying back student loans.  Now that they are grown, I still pay for the schools through my property taxes even though I no longer have school age children.  But that's okay because when I did have school age children, others were paying for them, also.  

Local School Boards normally determine what is taught in the schools so I guess you could say that the government is controlling what they learn because the teacher is a government employee.  I never had the feeling that my children were being taught anything different that what I was taught growing up in public schools.  I am able to read history books for myself and any other subject I choose to read about and no one controls what I read.

Somebody help me out here.

Larryj

[Anmar]

Larry,

That a pretty accurate discription of how the schools are paid for.  I think the issue that some people have is that the school board at the state level mandates a curriculum.  In some cases, certain parts of the curriculum are mandated by the federal government.  School districts eventually have the final say in what is taught, however state and federal governments can influence school boards by providing or witholding funding. 

For example, One of the charter schools here in the bay area is centered around a community of Lebanese immigrants.  They teach all the normal classes plus arabic language.  Although students there are both christian and muslim, a group of parents wanted the school to have classes teaching Islam.  The board governing the school had to make a decision.  They have the freedom to choose a religous curriculum if they wanted to, but by doing so, they would lose a portion of their funding because promoting religion in school is not something the government is interested in doing.

[larryJ]

You are correct.  Hence we have Catholic schools and others.  These would be paid for private schools, I guess.  Is there something in the Constitution about having religion in schools?  I know they don't get to pray anymore.  My granddaughter goes to a Baptist pre-school only because that is where her mother goes to church and wants her daughter to have that schooling.  I am involved to some degree in working with the staff and teachers there and I don't see a difference in the quality of education there than anywhere else.  The only difference is they stress belief in God along with the standard education.  Nothing wrong with that.  Next year, when she begins Kindergarten, she will be in a public school and probably one of the only differences will be that she doesn't go to chapel once a week and they won't be saying a prayer at the end of the school morning.

Larryj

[Anmar]

There is no law against teaching or practicing religion in school.  The supreme court has said that the government, federal or state, can't promote any particular religion.  This decision was obviously derived from the first amendment.  So faith-based schools can't recieve money from the government (local, state or federal)  A few years back, I coached at a catholic school.  Families there paid just over 10k a year per student.  I think thats about average for a high school out here.  The government pretty much has no control over what the school teaches.

I was reading a little bit on religious schools and the constitution and i found a good like that goes over a lot of the supreme court rulings.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_reli.html#cases

One interesting fact i didn't know..

In the pledge of allegiance, the words "under God" was not in the original version.  It was inserted into the pledge in 1954.

[larryJ]

Those of us who are older will remember when they decided to add "under God" to the pledge.  And, I also remember prayers before high school games. 

Larryj

[greatguns]

I can't help you out because I believe you to be right on track.

[Diane Amberg]

Larry, I too remember when "under God" was added. We practiced it a number of times and most of us still don't say it correctly. There was no pause after "under God." It was meant to be said "under God indivisible", and then the pause, followed by "with liberty and justice for all."A number of us at the fire house always say it correctly, which makes us out of cadence with the rest ....too bad.

[larryJ]

ARGGG!  attacked by the gremlins again.  Okay, one more time.

I think the pledge has become sort of 'singsong' for many of us.  The punctuation, meaning the location of the colon and the commas should indicate a pause.  So there should be no pauses until the word 'stands'.  There would be no pause between 'nation' and 'under'.  However most of us tend to pause after 'flag' and after 'America', making it sort of singsong.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

However you say it, though, say it like you mean it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Larryj

[Diane Amberg]

We learned it without the pause after God.     one nation, under God indivisible, with liberty and...

[redcliffsw]

Almost sounds like a different chant if you say it like you learned it.

What does "indivisible" mean when said your way?