Military

[W. Gray]

What about the "flaky" "right shoulder arms" salute and "left shoulder arms" salute?

I think the right shoulder arms salute using the left hand may have been the only time the left hand was used in a salute. Saw it used a number of times in formation but never saw an actual left shoulder arms salute using the right hand, except in training.

Check that. I think there was also a "order arms" salute with the left hand.

Saluting officer's cars was a duty especially if you were on MP duty. But, that is another one that may not be used anymore. Things are a little hazy, but it seems to me there was some talk of driver safety back then and a command had the authority to do away with it altogether--unless it was a general's car and he was always chauffeured. Around 1968, or so, though, it seems to me that Congress stopped the chauffeuring of generals at least to and from work. Generals were using GIs for everything from chauffeuring to cooking to baby sitting. The GI was not complaining, though, he sailed through the rating and promotion process after receiving a General's glowing recommendation.

[jarhead]

Waldo, A General ?? Who ever saw a general ?? The generals cars had a little flag with a star/stars in it and was on the top of the fenders above the headlights and if a young soldier/Marine knew what was good for him he had better salute that car. Now you are making my old tired brain go into overtime but I think "order arms 'was when your weapon was beside your right leg with butt plate on the deck, and you at attention, The next move was 'port arms" which was the weapon in front of your chest. From Port arms all other "manuel of arms" commands were given from there which included Right shoulder arms , left shoulder arms and present arms and that was the way you saluted with a weapon. At no times with a weapon was a hand salute used.There was one more move and that was at order arms a command of "trail arms" was given which meant raising the rifle an inch off the deck  and then marching ahead. Varmit really needs to jump in here because it wasn't that many years ago he was doing this kind of stuff. Larry wouldn't know because back in his day they were still using muskats & powder horns !!!

[Varmit]

funny story about generals..Right after 9/11 we were put on a high alert status, had to post guards and checkpoints all over Ft. Campbell.  We had a post set up outside the Post Commanders house.  I got stuck stand guard.  Anyway, he liked to go to the gym alot, when he came home he was in civies and his wifes car.  I didn't recognize him and asked to see his ID.  He said "Son, don't you know who I am?"  Being a cocky E4 with a full load and slightly pissed off at having to spend my weekend guarding some officer I had never met I answered "No sir and frankly don't care, now you can either show me your ID, or carry your ass out of here, understand?"  He showed me his ID.  Upon realizing who he was I felt a very strange sensation of a suddenly non-existant ego.  I popped tall, rendered a salute, and apologized.  He called for the SOG. 

That night I learned that the weight of an M16 would actually increase when held over ones head for an extended period of time.  Of course the weight is increased even more when that person is double timing it around a generals house.

[flintauqua]

Being from a family whose service was in the Navy, the only thing I can add to this discussion is the overwhelming sense of country that flows through ones self while watching the immaculately precise manuevers during the changing of the guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns in Arlington.

[jarhead]

I finally agree with you on something Flint. It is awesome. When I was there the Staff/NCO changing the Guard had a Medal fall off his uniform. as you know the crowd is very quiet and that medal hit the deck it sounded like a shot put falling on cement. The guard never missed a beat and they acted like nothing had happened.

[jarhead]

Varmit,
You were lucky that the general was an ol softie. If that had been Col. David Hackworth he would have ripped your throat out and then reached in and removed both lungs !!!!

[Jane]

Thanks for all the information, we have a daughter that is with the 252nd Military Police stationed in Ft Leonard Wood MO.
She spent 2 years in Germany and did her tour in Iraq for 15 months as a Humvee driver. What is funny we have yet to see her salute anyone.
It does bother me to watch him do anything with the military as he has never served.
A big THANK YOU to all of you who have served your country. Hope you have a great life.
Jane

[larryJ]

Alright, alright, it is time to brush some cobwebs aside and straighten you young whippersnappers out.  (There's that whippersnapper word again.)  

In the Army, outside required an salute to an officer.  If you saw a senior officers car coming towards you, you stopped and saluted.  Inside, approaching an officer at his desk required a salute and of course, no cover being inside.  Inside, walking in a hallway and meeting an officer coming toward you required a salute.  MPs at the gate saluted the car if the insignia or flag indicated an officer.  There might not be an officer in the car, but the car required the salute.  

HOWEVER, rules changed depending where you were at.  Some officers did not require a salute when you entered their office.  You only entered and stood at attention while announcing yourself and were then told to stand at ease.  Doctors were officers and mostly detested anyone saluting them or having to return a salute.  Chaplains the same way.  On my first day in Korea, I was going up some stairs outside the mess hall and encountered a second lieutenant coming down.  I smartly saluted and I guess I caught him on a bad day, for his return salute involved the middle finger of his right hand.  I never saluted him again.

As for weapon salutes-----------Present arms meant holding the weapon in front of you vertically as a salute.  Port arms meant holding the wapon at an angle to your body for times when the weapon had to be in readiness while running.  Order arms meant standing the weapon next to your right leg with the barrel vertical and at attention.  When given the at ease command and the weapon is in an order arms position, the weapon is then moved to an angle away from the body.

That was the way I remember it.  Stuff like that is pretty hard to forget when you spend countless hours doing it over and over again.  Times have probably changed, but that was the way General Washington taught us at Valley Forge.

LOL

Larryj

[Varmit]

Holy Cow!! They had cars, MPs, and gates at Valley Forge   

lol

[larryJ]

Second note:  When I spent some time working as a battery clerk in Korea (before going back into the medics), my desk was just inside the door.  When an officer entered, I was required to stand at attention and call "attention."  The First Sergeant would stand and salute.  I don't remember having to salute, but I probably did.  Again, being there in Korea, there were some different rules.  You didn't salute the Captain as he was in and out of the building all the time.  Most Lt's. didn't want a salute.  

As far as saluting the flag as a civilian, I do place my hand over my heart.  There have been occasions when I felt like giving a formal hand salute.  But, I have been told that hand salutes are only from active duty troops.  But, if I feel like saluting the flag with a hand salute to the brow, I will do so.

AND, Billy, good ole Ft. Campbell.  I was there for basic in 1966.  That was when the army was trying to decide if Ft. Campbell would be a good basic training area.  I think we were probably the second or third class of recruits to go through basic there.  We didn't have regular drill instructors, we had the "Screaming Eagles" 101st Airborne.  They were tough.  After eight weeks there and ten weeks in San Antonio at medic school, I returned to the hospital at Ft. Campbell as my duty station.  By that time, they had regular D.I.s.  We got called out for splinters in the hand, blisters, etc.  It wasn't that way when the Airborne ran it.  If you went to sick call, it was "prove you are sick and die" from the medics!  I remember also, because they were airborne, the mess hall was up on stilts common to Kentucky.  There were steps going into the mess hall, but after you ate, you went out the back door where there were no steps.  You were required to jump and roll like landing with a chute on.  

Aaaahhhh---such memories!

Larryj