Experimenting with Education

[srkruzich]

Indoctrination my *&^. What is this indoctrination yall keep spoutin off about? Just another boogieman hidin in the closet to scare your kids? Why is it that anybody who doesn't agree with you has been.....  oooooooooo......"indoctrinated"! I'd think everybody on here would agree with everybody else if we had all been "inDOCtrinated"....talk about boring ass conversations........hey.... maybe YOU all been indoctrinated.......

Like the military, public schooling operates in a top-down, command-and-control manner. It's a perfect model of socialistic central planning, a system in which government officials plan and direct the activities of the citizenry rather than simply leaving the citizenry free to plan and direct their own affairs.

Whether the control comes from the state government, through the state department of education, or the local government, through a school board, the principle is the same — a group of appointed or elected government officials is directing the educational decisions of multitudes of students. That's different from the private sector, where consumers, through their spending decisions, determine the direction of entrepreneurial and business activity.

Government officials decide the textbooks and the curricula in government schools. Thus, they decide the substance of what is to be taught to the students. In socialist countries like Cuba, we usually call that process indoctrination.

An American teacher might deviate from time to time from official doctrine, but if the deviation is major and persistent, the teacher will ultimately be forced into conformity. For example, suppose a schoolteacher begins teaching students that the drug war is immoral and destructive and, therefore, that drugs should be legalized. Outraged parents would bring their wrath down upon the school board, which would pressure the principal, who would send an appropriate message to the teacher.

[redcliffsw]

Good post there, SRKruzich.

By the way, the Cubans are well educated.  Yeah, the Cubans are......

[pepelect]

So what you are saying is that homeschooling is just a cult that hasn't had the kool-aid yet?

It's looking like you're very supportive of the indoctrination that you received
in the gov't school.  I got a dose of it too, but have been fortunate to rid ot it.

I really challenge your sanity. What part of crazy paranoid delusional thinking would lead you to believe that I would ever buy in to your come in here the water is warm love campaign.  I support what I believe in.  I think you got a dose of something illegal.  There is no question that you need care.  Go back to sleep the voices you hear are your own.   You wouldn't know a good post even if you could make a porch swing out of it. 

[Anmar]

This thread is interesting and funny at the same time.  Who would have thought that insanity can be humerous?

[pamsback]

public schooling operates in a top-down, command-and-control manner

that ain't government indoctrination.........that's LIFE. Everything in life operates that way...even your HOME-school......just instead of goin thru the school board to censur information YOU are the school board. By your own definition you are INDOCTRINATING your kids to know and believe what YOU want them to.

My position is something that was taught me years ago....only a fool turns their nose up at knowledge because knowledge of something prepares you to DEAL with it. Even the things you don't agree with.

Just like in studying history....there is the story the WINNERS tell...the story the LOSERS tell..and then there is the REST of the story....you instill in children the desire to find the REST of the story, no matter about what, and you will have done well.

as for the rest of it, just indoctrination in general....parents do it....churches do it....businesses do it....it's all about bein part of the "club" Some of us don't join the "club" actually a LOT of us. Any time you "train" somebody be it your kids or whatever...you are inDOCtrinating them into your way of thinking and knowing so in all actuality I am inDOCtrinating MY kids to be OPEN-minded and non-judgmental. To be seekers of ALL knowledge not just SOME knowledge. So that indoctrination argument DOESN'T hold water as far as I am concerned.

[pamsback]

All schools, all colleges, have two great functions: to confer, and to conceal, valuable knowledge. The theological knowledge which they conceal cannot justly be regarded as less valuable than that which they reveal. That is, when a man is buying a basket of strawberries it can profit him to know that the bottom half of it is rotten.
                    ~~Mark Twain~~

You can't stop or operate with HALF the story............public AND home education are the two HALVES of the ONE.

[Sarah]

public schooling operates in a top-down, command-and-control manner

that ain't government indoctrination.........that's LIFE. Everything in life operates that way...even your HOME-school......just instead of goin thru the school board to censur information YOU are the school board. By your own definition you are INDOCTRINATING your kids to know and believe what YOU want them to.

My position is something that was taught me years ago....only a fool turns their nose up at knowledge because knowledge of something prepares you to DEAL with it. Even the things you don't agree with.

Just like in studying history....there is the story the WINNERS tell...the story the LOSERS tell..and then there is the REST of the story....you instill in children the desire to find the REST of the story, no matter about what, and you will have done well.

as for the rest of it, just indoctrination in general....parents do it....churches do it....businesses do it....it's all about bein part of the "club" Some of us don't join the "club" actually a LOT of us. Any time you "train" somebody be it your kids or whatever...you are inDOCtrinating them into your way of thinking and knowing so in all actuality I am inDOCtrinating MY kids to be OPEN-minded and non-judgmental. To be seekers of ALL knowledge not just SOME knowledge. So that indoctrination argument DOESN'T hold water as far as I am concerned.

I was with you right up until that line I bolded.  We all teach what we want our kids to value.  The school also, teaches what it values, or rather what the government says it should value.  Parents teach what they value.  Or parents send their kids to private school that upholds the values of the parents and will instill it in their kids.  That's our right and our freedom in this country.  If you don't believe what is going on in the public schools around this country than you are really not paying attention and yes, schools here in Kansas and I'm not necessarily talking about the big public schools in Wichita and Kansas City.  I'm talking about the smaller schools in small communities also.  Not necessarily all of them, but a lot of them and if you don't know it's going on, then I would highly suggest you start reading more.  You might start with a really good book called "The Dumbing Down of America".  You might learn something.

But I am curious here....how can you teach a character quality that you yourself do not possess?

[srkruzich]

public schooling operates in a top-down, command-and-control manner

that ain't government indoctrination.........that's LIFE. Everything in life operates that way...even your HOME-school......just instead of goin thru the school board to censur information YOU are the school board. By your own definition you are INDOCTRINATING your kids to know and believe what YOU want them to.

My position is something that was taught me years ago....only a fool turns their nose up at knowledge because knowledge of something prepares you to DEAL with it. Even the things you don't agree with.

Just like in studying history....there is the story the WINNERS tell...the story the LOSERS tell..and then there is the REST of the story....you instill in children the desire to find the REST of the story, no matter about what, and you will have done well.

as for the rest of it, just indoctrination in general....parents do it....churches do it....businesses do it....it's all about bein part of the "club" Some of us don't join the "club" actually a LOT of us. Any time you "train" somebody be it your kids or whatever...you are inDOCtrinating them into your way of thinking and knowing so in all actuality I am inDOCtrinating MY kids to be OPEN-minded and non-judgmental. To be seekers of ALL knowledge not just SOME knowledge. So that indoctrination argument DOESN'T hold water as far as I am concerned.

How are public schools financed? Through coercion. Everyone, even people who do not have children, is taxed to fund this government enterprise. It's called taking money from everyone to subsidize those who have children. Or as Karl Marx would have described this process of spreading the wealth, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

[srkruzich]

So what you are saying is that homeschooling is just a cult that hasn't had the kool-aid yet?

It's looking like you're very supportive of the indoctrination that you received
in the gov't school.  I got a dose of it too, but have been fortunate to rid ot it.

I really challenge your sanity. What part of crazy paranoid delusional thinking would lead you to believe that I would ever buy in to your come in here the water is warm love campaign.  I support what I believe in.  I think you got a dose of something illegal.  There is no question that you need care.  Go back to sleep the voices you hear are your own.   You wouldn't know a good post even if you could make a porch swing out of it. 

Pep your a Advocate of government schooling and you claim that parents are not competent to make educational decisions for their children.
That raises an obvious question: Why not?
Aren't most parents products of public schooling? If public schooling has produced a nation of adults who lack the competence to guide their children's education, why do we want to continue a system that is likely to produce the same result?

Government schools get their customers? Through force. That's where compulsory-attendance laws come into play. If a parent fails to send his children into the public school system or fails to subject them to some alternative form of government-approved education (e.g., charter schools, government-licensed private schools), the parent is subjected to extreme sanctions, including imprisonment.

This is the only way the Government can get good citizens that vote the right way, think the right way, and act the right way.

[pamsback]

?? ??
How humorous......she doesn't agree with me so attack her character.......ssdd there.....
Am I talkin with my mouth full of mush or something? I mean seriously.....how is saying we need BOTH make me lack some character trait or mean I am "attacking your whatever blah blah blah"
Don't make the mistake of thinkin I don't know what you are talking about with your "dumbing down of america" stuff. I deal with the stupidity of people every day of my life. I just choose to go AROUND it and TEACH my kids the REST of the story. People only get "dumbed down" if they ALLOW it and that goes for home schooling OR public education.

I don't know you so guess I won't speculate on YOUR character......................or lack.....
LOL guess I'm gettin better,,was a time I would've just told you to f off LOLOLOLOLOLOL