Experimenting with Education

[pamsback]

But none of these are  a Bill Gates.  Thats the criteria that pep set. not me.

I happen to think every ONE of us is as successful and viable as a Bill Gates. I'm sure Pep does too.

And that's like I said, neither way is right for all kids.  Each family has to decide for themselves what's best for their children and their family be it public school, private school or homeschool.  What's right for one child isn't necessarily right for another.

True. I happen to believe the MORE my kids learned and LEARN the better off they are. I do NOT believe in insulating my kids..I never did and still don't. I have one daughter left in school and three grandkids coming up in school...PUBLIC school that is....I think in terms of exPANDING their minds not NARROWing them. The world is made of good AND bad, knowing about both prepares them to deal with it because deal with it they will whether you want them to or not...that's life.

[srkruzich]

I happen to think every ONE of us is as successful and viable as a Bill Gates. I'm sure Pep does too.

That depends.  On business level and intellegence, no were not.  He was smarter than the rest of us.  He's the one sitting on billions not us.  He is smarter, better and more important in that sense.
On a self worth level, no he's not.  He puts his pants on the same way we do.  one leg at a time.

If we were on the same level as he, we would be sitting on billions don't ya think?
I'm successful too in that i have produced kids that are all taxpaying citizens that stay out of trouble.  3 of my brood are serving in the military and making a differnece in peoples lives.  Thats success.  Financially, i'm not so successful.  Businesswise, i never stop trying to build one or succeed at one. 

[Sarah]

True. I happen to believe the MORE my kids learned and LEARN the better off they are. I do NOT believe in insulating my kids..I never did and still don't. I have one daughter left in school and three grandkids coming up in school...PUBLIC school that is....I think in terms of exPANDING their minds not NARROWing them. The world is made of good AND bad, knowing about both prepares them to deal with it because deal with it they will whether you want them to or not...that's life.

Here we'll have to part ways in our agreement.  I don't think public school kids learn MORE in public school.  I think homeschool kids are able to get their hands on more things and experience more IF they have parents that are engaged and give them those opportunities.  That's not always the case, but there's the potential there for it.

Also, as a Christian, I do not believe we are to "learn" evil.  Learning it does not help you to deal with it, just as being picked on or beat up teaches you anything but to have a low self esteem. 

I'm not saying in any way that this is true at West Elk or any school IN PARTICULAR, but rather public schools IN GENERAL.  I don't know any homeschool family that narrows their childrens minds.  Not learning about homosexuality in 1st grade is in no way narrowing their experiences.  The whole world is nothing but experiences and our minds are expanding every day depending on what we're exposed to and I think IN THAT WAY, homeschool kids definitely have the advantage over kids that are locked up in a class room all day.  A lot of homeschooled families go out of their way to see that their kids experience as much of life as they can possibly give them.

[srkruzich]

look yall its like this.  When you run a business, you look at every possible way to cut costs increase production and maximize profits while putting out a quality product.  A lot of our businesses today produce a cheap product to maximize profits, so they bring in product from china.  

What my point is, is this.  The Government schools have resources that Homeschoolers and private schools don't.  YET the private schools and homeschoolers manage to produce higher educated kids than the government schools do and at half the cost.   On a national average it takes approximately 18k per student to educate our kids in Govt schools yet its done on a national averge by private schools for 5k -10k a year per student.  And a private shool teacher is paid more than a public school teacher.
homeschoolers can do it cheaper but thats because there is no salary involved in paying for a teacher.

My problem with Government schools is that they take money from all of us and what they give us in return is sub par compared to what private industry would give us.  Why are we settling for less?  Shouldn't elk co and all public school kids be on the same education level as private schools especially since they get twice the resources that private schools get??

[pamsback]

 

He's the one sitting on billions not us.  He is smarter, better and more important in that sense.

Not really

If we were on the same level as he, we would be sitting on billions don't ya think?

I am on the same level as he is. I AM sitting on billions of what matters to ME, three great kids, three great GRANDkids, a few good friends! My bills are paid, we have groceries, a good roof...I AM financially successful. It's all relative......Money does not impress me, it never has. More is just that...more. I have enough, how much more successful do I need to be? Businesswise, I sell a piece of art here and there, to somebody who REALLY likes it...or even give it away to somebody who really loves it..how much more successful could I be? No I'm not some pollyanna goody two shoes, if you actually knew me you would know that is actually the way I am and have been since I was little bitty. So yeah Bill Gates ain't got NOTHIN on what I got

[pamsback]

ok.I type slow now I'm two behind

Sarah, knowing something exists better prepares you to deal with it IN MY opinion. Seein as how I managed to raise three drug free kids in that neck of the woods it seems to make sense to me. You teach em about it, what it can do to them and teach them how to have enough self respect to stay away from it. Whether it's drugs or any OTHER bad habit.

I didn't mean they learn more in public school I meant they learn MORE if they have public school AND home teaching.

Yeah experiences expand our minds, only if we are allowed to HAVE said experiences tho. As for the learnin about gay in grade school...face it they exist, I just figured it was an opportunity to explain why things aren't supposed to go that way when my kids asked about it...and since none of them "caught" gay guess it worked ( that's a wee bit of sarcasm I know you can't CATCH it)

MY point is I never trusted the education of my children to ANYbody totally. I participated and expanded or contracted on what they learned.

[pepelect]

Pros of Home School

•Free to choose curriculum
•Free to choose schedule
•Small teacher to student ratio
•Teaches students to be independent in their learning choices
Cons of Home School

•Usually more expensive than public school
•Teachers are not always qualified to teach all subjects
•It's harder to provide social interaction
•Colleges sometimes have stricter admission policies concerning homeschooled students.

Sources:

nheri.org
familyfun.go.com

Who is going to be the ones out working while you are home schooling the children??  If you are correct and every one quits sending their kids to school stays home and teaches them everything from shoetieing to thermodynamics who is going to be the ditch digger?  Who works the cattle?  Where do the kids ride on the backpack at the aircraft plant?  I think it would be wonderful if the entire world just quit working for other people to stay at home and teach their own kids.   It is not practical.  It is irresponsible for the entire working class to take 13 years off just so their kids  won't have learn from a stupid teacher. What makes you think that you can teach better than a trained teacher?  

Why can't you just augment what they get at school at home?  They are still home more hours of every day then at school.  If you would play the role of  parent you could let the teacher teach.  We have too many kids that don't get sent to school even with coats.  You want them to be taught at home?  A parent that chooses cigarettes over a lunch?  A beer instead of shoes without holes?


You want me to condone and recommend that?  It is not a cure all.  It would work for the smartest and the brightest.  The ones that would need special skilled educational techniques would be very hard to accomplish by your self.  It works for those that make it work.  It is a lifestyle choice.  

[Sarah]

ok.I type slow now I'm two behind

Sarah, knowing something exists better prepares you to deal with it IN MY opinion. Seein as how I managed to raise three drug free kids in that neck of the woods it seems to make sense to me. You teach em about it, what it can do to them and teach them how to have enough self respect to stay away from it. Whether it's drugs or any OTHER bad habit.

I didn't mean they learn more in public school I meant they learn MORE if they have public school AND home teaching.

Yeah experiences expand our minds, only if we are allowed to HAVE said experiences tho. As for the learnin about gay in grade school...face it they exist, I just figured it was an opportunity to explain why things aren't supposed to go that way when my kids asked about it...and since none of them "caught" gay guess it worked ( that's a wee bit of sarcasm I know you can't CATCH it)

MY point is I never trusted the education of my children to ANYbody totally. I participated and expanded or contracted on what they learned.

OK, we're on the same page more or less.  Like I said, there is no one way for every single child.  What's right for one isn't necessarily right for another and I agree that even if parents send their kids to public school, they need to be proactive and teach their kids at home too.  That's the only way any parent is going to know what their kids are learning.

But the basis of this whole argument was that some thought no one should homeschool, that that's the governments job unless you have a teaching degree and that public school turns out better kids, which isn't necessarily always true, just as it's not always true that homeschooling turns out better kids.  I've seen homeschool families fail miserably.  It depends on the motivation of the parents.  

[Sarah]

Pros of Home School

•Free to choose curriculum
•Free to choose schedule
•Small teacher to student ratio
•Teaches students to be independent in their learning choices
Cons of Home School

•Usually more expensive than public school
•Teachers are not always qualified to teach all subjects
•It's harder to provide social interaction
•Colleges sometimes have stricter admission policies concerning homeschooled students.

Sources:

nheri.org
familyfun.go.com

Who is going to be the ones out working while you are home schooling the children??  If you are correct and every one quits sending their kids to school stays home and teaches them everything from shoetieing to thermodynamics who is going to be the ditch digger?  Who works the cattle?  Where do the kids ride on the backpack at the aircraft plant?  I think it would be wonderful if the entire world just quit working for other people to stay at home and teach their own kids.   It is not practical.  It is irresponsible for the entire working class to take 13 years off just so their kids  won't have learn from a stupid teacher. What makes you think that you can teach better than a trained teacher?  

Why can't you just augment what they get at school at home?  They are still home more hours of every day then at school.  If you would play the role of  parent you could let the teacher teach.  We have too many kids that don't get sent to school even with coats.  You want them to be taught at home?  A parent that chooses cigarettes over a lunch?  A beer instead of shoes without holes?


You want me to condone and recommend that?  It is not a cure all.  It would work for the smartest and the brightest.  The ones that would need special skilled educational techniques would be very hard to accomplish by your self.  It works for those that make it work.  It is a lifestyle choice.  

It may be somewhat more expensive to homeschool, but far better IMO. 

What parents can't teach, there is this wonderful thing called homeschool cooperatives where parents get together and there is always someone qualified to teach certain harder subjects such as chemistry.

It is not any harder to provide social interaction and actually provides advantages as you can, if the parents so desire, make sure that their kids interact with kids of like mind.  There are many many many homeschool activities these days including sports teams, music, bands, and many others.

And as far as colleges go, colleges nowadays are actually seeking out homeschool kids for enrollment.  It is not the hurdle that it used to be.

Who stays home?  Not all families need to be a two working parent home.  You make sacrifices, you work at it.  But you are right, from the families I've seen, it is a lifestyle.  You're never really "out of school".  It's an ongoing thing 24/7. 

[srkruzich]

Pros of Home School

•Free to choose curriculum
•Free to choose schedule
•Small teacher to student ratio
•Teaches students to be independent in their learning choices
Cons of Home School

•Usually more expensive than public school
•Teachers are not always qualified to teach all subjects
•It's harder to provide social interaction
•Colleges sometimes have stricter admission policies concerning homeschooled students.

Sources:

nheri.org
familyfun.go.com

Who is going to be the ones out working while you are home schooling the children??  If you are correct and every one quits sending their kids to school stays home and teaches them everything from shoetieing to thermodynamics who is going to be the ditch digger?

Well the thermodynamics can be taught later on when they go to college for that subject

Who works the cattle?

Hmm lets see, how bout the parents as well as the kids??  You have to do many things with cattle, of which all of them can be turned into a classroom lesson that they learn.  

I think it would be wonderful if the entire world just quit working for other people to stay at home and teach their own kids.   It is not practical.

Why not?  You have a electric company, put the youngins to work running wires. helping out meanwhile teach them ohms law and about capacitive reactance, and inductive reactance.  teach about finding the average value of the current running through a parallel circuit utilizing trigonometric functions.  
What about the resistance load of 12 g romex?   It's all a classroom you know.

What makes you think that you can teach better than a trained teacher?  

The fact that NO teacher will look out for my child in the way i do.  Lets take one field of expertise.  No teach out there including college teachers has a current education in the field of computers.  So your kids taking a computer course at elk co high is getting taught a 10 year old technology lesson.   The excuse is they are getting basics, which is hogwash cause if you ever went through the "college" courses, their college course is 20 years out of date.

English, math, core classes like that don't change, and we all go through them. So that gives us all the ability to teach it.  Science is like computers, it changes daily and most science textbooks are years out of date, even the current ones.
So that gives those of us that teach at home the unique ability of learning with the kids.  

Why can't you just augment what they get at school at home?  They are still home more hours of every day then at school.

Thats working for some.  

If you would play the role of  parent you could let the teacher teach.  We have too many kids that don't get sent to school even with coats.  You want them to be taught at home?  A parent that chooses cigarettes over a lunch?  A beer instead of shoes without holes?

The role of parent is to be the teacher.