Another Democrat bill to screw Americans

[srkruzich]

Yeah, I know (kinda) what shuckydarn means. I was just playing around and it is old because I hadn't heard the expression since I was a child.  But, thanks for clearing that up.

Getting back to Billy's opinion ---  If someone enters this country illegally, that is a crime.  If they are caught, they are sent back.  If they commit a crime such as the ones mentioned, then they are punished (if caught) and then sent back.  Anyway, you look at it, they are breaking the laws of this country.  

Having said that--------Over the years that I have lived in SoCal, I have hired people to put new flooring in my house, I have hired a handyman to renovate the bathrooms and kitchen (tile and a new bathtub).  I am not 100% sure that they were here legally.  Two of them brought their wives with them to help out and both wives could not speak English very well.  I have hired two brothers who spoke limited English to put in a new sprinkler system for both front and back yards.  I am not sure that they were here legally either.  What I am sure of---------------------They all did outstanding work.  They were not here to rob, con, or kill anyone.  They were here to make a living and provide for their families.  I count them as friends, although once they finished the job, they moved on.  But, if someone were to ask me for a recommendation, I would call these "friends" and tell them that work was available.  

So, yeah, there are good ones and bad ones, and if they came here illegally, well, that's a crime.  But, I would hate to see these "friends" get caught and sent back.   It would be a loss to our economy.

Larryj

P.S.  My spellchecker didn't know what "shuckydarn" was, either.

Yeah but you know, no one has said they don't do good work, or don't work hard.  you know folks raise hell if a company hires an illegal worker, and fines the crap out of them and makes them pay a penalty for violating the law yet they want to give the illegal a free pass to violate the SAME law just because they have a family.   That's just pure hippocracy.

[larryJ]

I see your point.  However, I believe that when a company hires an illegal alien, intentionally or unintentionally, that is a violation of the law.  If I hire an illegal alien, intentionally or unintentionally, that is a violation of the law.  If I were running for public office, I could be rejected because my gardener is not a citizen and is in this country illegally.  But, I am just the "good ole boy" down the street that needs some work done and this guy (illegal?) is very good at what he does, at least, that is what the mayor of the city told me after the guy did some work for him.  So, I ask--------------Where does the line get drawn?  The company gets fined because they have an obligation to do background checks on those they hire.  I don't have the resources or time to do that, so if the guy is good, he is hired, no background check.  If I catch him stealing, he's fired.  If I am really upset at him, he's arrested and sent back to where he came from.  So--------Where does the line get drawn?

Larryj

[srkruzich]

I see your point.  However, I believe that when a company hires an illegal alien, intentionally or unintentionally, that is a violation of the law.  If I hire an illegal alien, intentionally or unintentionally, that is a violation of the law.  If I were running for public office, I could be rejected because my gardener is not a citizen and is in this country illegally.  But, I am just the "good ole boy" down the street that needs some work done and this guy (illegal?) is very good at what he does, at least, that is what the mayor of the city told me after the guy did some work for him.  So, I ask--------------Where does the line get drawn?  The company gets fined because they have an obligation to do background checks on those they hire.  I don't have the resources or time to do that, so if the guy is good, he is hired, no background check.  If I catch him stealing, he's fired.  If I am really upset at him, he's arrested and sent back to where he came from.  So--------Where does the line get drawn?

Larryj

I think the line draws itself when it becomes apparant that the worker is here illegally.  They know the law says they cannot work unless they have permission or are a citizen so they knowingly violate the law.   They also jeapordize anyone that will hire them especially if they do so by deceiving others into hiring them.  Here we have a man that has a family and crosses illegally into another country, deceives others into hiring them.  What good is this?  Its nothing but lying, deception, and willful violation of law.  In the very least it shows that they have no character in that thier willing to do anything legal or illegal to obtain money.   Doesn't matter that they are trying to find work to take care of their family what matters is what they have no character to stand up for what is right.

IF a man goes into a grocery store to steal food to feed his family is it justified?  No its not.  So why is violating the laws concerning working legally in this country so acceptable?

[larryJ]

Your way of thinking or call it your rationale is right on.  There should be no line, just be here legally and don't be here at all.  And I agree with that.  That is it, in black and white.  Unfortunately, the country will go on doing what they always do and there is not much chance it will change to yours and my satisfaction.  I, personally, will probably keep on using the same people I always use because I like them and they do good work.  But, you and I and others here know what is legal and what is not.

Gotta go, the honey dew list is piling up.

Larryj

[Cheyenne]

Ok.. I wasn't going to post in politics but I have a view to add to this post. I grew up in Howard in Eureka and then moved to Emporia my freshman year of highschool. Talk about a culture shock. The first day of school I asked a hispanic kid when a class was and he told me "no english". I didnt understand what he meant. Finally a kid tapped me on the arm and told me he didn't speak english. My neighborhood is surrounded my hispanic people and I have since learned a lot about the "mexicans". I don't think it is right that they are working in this county illegally, however they do work hard for their money. Are companies are just as much to blame for them working here, I know one family that the father worked at tyson and and they were all here illegally, Tyson actually tells their illegal employees that when INS comes in they are to go willingly and that they will charter a plane for them in a few days. If you go to the grocery store on Tyson paydays, there is a line at the western union window sending their paychecks to Mexico. Is it right? No. But I can see both points, Companies get cheaper labor and the Mexican can feed his family

[sixdogsmom]

Hang on Cheyenne--- it's gonna be a bumpy ride! I agree with you and Whammy that I cannot really blame the illegals for coming. It's when they come, and are hired by people like Tyson, and the beef processings plants out west, that know they are undocumented, and don't care. Some work under slave wages and slave conditions. The American worker conditions do not apply, after all they are here illegally aren't they? Meanwhile, the big bugs are rolling in the dough, the Wallmart shoppers are happy with the price, and the illegal sends home the cash for his family. I really am aghast at the amount of drugs that come into this country, the amount of arms that exit this country and the amount of ho-hum at the borders there is. I would be in favor of easier work permits, with HEAVY penalties for smuggling drugs in and arms out. The people here doing grunt work, should be able to do it legally; there aren't many lined up in front of the motels complaining that Chiquita took away their job changing sheets and cleaning rooms. And their aren't many complaining that Pancho took their job picking vegetables. Faced with a starving family, I would certainly do the same as the illegals. Les Miserables made a big impact on me when I was young, as did Grapes Of Wrath. Read the books, the movies are pretty watered down. During the hard times of the depression, my folks lived for awhile in a whitewashed chicken house on my Great Aunts farm. Those were hard times, much like the Mexican people are going through in their own country.

[larryJ]

So it boils down to-------------------------You are welcome to our country as long as you work hard and keep your nose clean, send your kids to school so they may learn our language and help you to learn also.  Pay your share of the taxes and don't break the law and in a few years when you are ready, take the citizenship test and become an Ameican citizen.  

Am I dreaming?

Larryj

[Cheyenne]

Exactly. Can anybody on here HONESTLY say that facing the same situation that you wouldn't do the same thing. I don't approve of the smuggling activity nor do I approve of them working illegally but I can't say that if my kids were going hungry I would not do what it takes to feed them if working in a country illegally to afford food was how I could feed them.

[larryJ]

You are wise beyond your years, Cheyenne.  Any mother or father would do what it takes to take care of their family.  If you and they are starving and have no prospects of earning money and the grocery store is right across the street, would you refrain from stealing from that store because it is against the law, the American law, in a country where you are not a citizen and therefore don't have to abide by it laws?  I guess committing a crime in order to take care of your family such as stealing or shoplifting is okay, maybe.  Smuggling drugs, or people, or committing gang war attacks--------------that's a no-no.  Is that where to draw that line?

Larryj

[sixdogsmom]

Larry, I thank you for your kindness to Cheyenne. For myself, I would not hesitate to rob, cheat, steal or otherwise to feed my children if there were not a way to do it within the law. It is our moral responsibility IMHO, to see that such a thing can never occur in this country. Depressions occur when the balance of wealth gets out of whack; too much at the top, and the poor people suffer. Too much at the bottom, and the wealthy suffer. Ha! Ha!