Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe Railway

[W. Gray]

Jarhead,

Where did your father work for forty years on the Santa Fe?

[jarhead]

Waldo,
He worked for the Eastern division out of Chanute. He retired with 30 years service but had worked almost 10 years and quit for a spell then went back so he lost almost 10 years seniority. As a pup I went on several train trips with him from Moline to Pawhuska, Ok. I remember the engineer was Charlie Shafer and I think he was from Moline. Must of been mid 60's he was Baggage Conductor on the KC to Tulsa run. He dead headed on a train from Independence to KC. I went that trip a couple times but that train "flew" compared to the ol work trains. All and all I think he was on the Howard Branch more than any other trains. Him and Ernie Condon were regulars on it. In Burke's book it mentions my Dad. I think it was in 1944 and Burke was a lad in Climax. He says something like " Brakeman Monty Edwards  stood on top a reefer and threw chunks of ice to the track crew"

[W. Gray]

You are probably aware that James Burke was called the Climax Switchman. Sounds like the Howard Branch train crews were gambling heavy when they let a thirteen or fourteen old do the switching for them at Climax. You are probably also aware that the original track from Emporia to Severy was narrow gauge. Elk County was expecting narrow gauge, also. But on one Sunday in 1879, I think, the entire line was regauged to standard gauge track.

I applied to the Frisco accounting department in Springfield, Mo., many years ago and they were willing to hire me. However, I could only come "on board" in the lowest paying job. I would then have to wait my turn until all the old fogies ahead of me retired or someone quit and then I could advance. I knew that was the process on the rails but I had no clue that it also applied to their accounting department. From what I came away understanding, unless one was a total dud, advancement was more or less automatic when an opening came open.

[jarhead]

Waldo, No, I didn't know about Burke or the narrow guage track. Didn't know too much about anything except I know I loved going on "train trips" with my dad. I'm sure in these times it would not be allowed.After my dad retired and had a stroke they used to stop the train right here in Longton and the old timers would walk the half block to say howdy to Pops and talk of old times. On one of the last Santa Fe trains to come thru Longton , they stopped and I knew the engineer from Chanute, and I asked him if there was any way he would let my youngest daughter ride the train. Guess the conductor must of approved of it too.They loaded her up in the engine and she got to ride to Moline where we picked her up. It was one of the high lights of her life. I'm sure if something bad had happened there would be some "heads rolling ". Forgot to say that my dad also spent quite a bit of time on the Chanute/ Winfield run and the  Chanute/Arkansas City train. I think A Wellington run was included in one of the above two. You are making an old brain work overtime !! I was called to take a physical in 1973 by AT&SF as a fireman. I think it was the last bunch of firemen they hired for a long time. I had just started a new job and my new boss promised me the moon not to go so I didn't---what a sucker I was. Right after I got out of the military I worked a couple years at Moline rock quarry. I could always tell if my dad was the brakeman when they backed the cars up the tracks. Instead of setting the brakes he would just block the wheels with a chunk of wood or a rock. Then instead of just releasing the brake and start rolling you had to push the whole string of cars back off "his brake ". Think he did it just to make my work harder.

[dnalexander]

Thanks Jarhead and Waldo for the interesting discussion on the ATSF and Howard Branch.  I am looking for more info on the Howard Branch line prior to ATSF. I will post anything I find.

Correct me if I am wrong but here is my starting point on the narrow gauge line on the Howard Branch. The narrow gauge line right of way was owned by the Elk & Chataqua lRR. I am unsure if it actually had track on it or if it ever had any trains run on it. Now off to find more info on the narrow gauge line on the Howard Branch pre-ATSF.

David

[flintauqua]

Waldo and David,

I am a rail history buff, but sadly lack the searchable resources that you have access to, or, if accessable via internet, the url's of the sites.

As you educate us, would you be willing to reveal sources, be them digital or print?  I'd love to know what i'm missing.

Also, of particular interest to me, would be any information on "phantom" rail lines; ones that were chartered and never started, started and never finished, etc.

Thank you 'Oh Wise Ones"

Charles

[W. Gray]

My uncle tells of leaving Howard for the service via train.

He and some others headed towards Emporia on the Howard Branch. At Madison Junction the train went past the switch and stopped; the switch was thrown and then the train began backing to Hilltop.

Seventeen miles later at Hilltop the train stopped to pick up a lone can of milk. The train then proceeded forward going back to Madison Junction and then on to Emporia. All this took place at around fifteen or twenty miles per hour.

I think passenger service stopped on the Howard Branch in 1948 or 49 and steam operations stopped in 1953, or so. Probably around the same times for the line through Longton.

I think it is generally known that Moline had a "roundhouse" at one time and so did Howard. The one in Howard was torn up in an 1884 tornado when the town was end-of-track. It was never rebuilt. Grenola had a turntable in 1886 and I would assume a "roundhouse" to go with it.

I cannot help but thinking that at some time in the future, this country will regret having torn up so much track. UP is already experiencing a problem of not having enough track to handle the loads in some places.

[dnalexander]

Waldo and David,

I am a rail history buff, but sadly lack the searchable resources that you have access to, or, if accessable via internet, the url's of the sites.

As you educate us, would you be willing to reveal sources, be them digital or print?  I'd love to know what i'm missing.

Also, of particular interest to me, would be any information on "phantom" rail lines; ones that were chartered and never started, started and never finished, etc.

Thank you 'Oh Wise Ones"

Charles

Charles here are just a few links I found on the Howard Branch and ATSF. They have links too that they suggest. Also, look for the railfan webring. Don't forget to work the links below back to their homepage as well as through all the links. I will post links to whatever I find or think other rail fans may find helpful for research.

http://www.atsfrr.org/resources/Sandifer/Howard/index.htm


http://www.steamlocomotive.info
http://atsf.railfan.net/atsfpres/
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/

Kansas Maps with Rail Info.
http://specialcollections.wichita.edu/collections/maps/18801889.asp


Kansas Rail Links from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kansas_railroads

I'll stop there. Too many links doesn't help much. Those are some of my favorites.

[dnalexander]

Charles I have not looked at this link for a while but I think it may help in your research of phantom lines.

http://www.rrhistorical.com

and

http://www.rlhs.org/research.htm

[W. Gray]

There is a thin reference to narrow gauge in one of the web sites provided by David.

The first time that I became aware that narrow gauge was headed south for Howard was in reading a large book on the history of narrow gauge in the U.S. I do not remember the name. but it came from my local library.

There were a number of narrow gauge railroads planned for operation in Kansas. The locomotives were cheaper, the cars were cheaper, smaller and lighter rail was cheaper, roadbed grading was cheaper, operating costs were cheaper, etc.

The intent seemed to be to provide standard gauge on the main lines coming through the state and then narrow gauge would radiate out to provide service to the "Podunk" towns.

As the narrow gauge was headed to Severy, someone in railroad management somewhere apparently came to a realization the fallacy of off loading passengers and freight from standard gauge cars to narrow gauge cars, the time, costs, and inconvenience associated with it, etc. The mileage of track changed on one Sunday was around sixty-four miles. That feat was included in that book but it was also mentioned on a web site related to a museum site for one of the Howard Branch towns. I cannot recall which.

From reading the Elk County papers of the 1870s the railroad coming from Independence was supposed to be narrow gauge but Elk County voters defeated a bond issue for that purpose. The next bond issue presented was approved by Elk County for a standard gauge road. The Elk Valley & Western RR was a paper corporation that floated the bonds and built the track. An actual operating railroad leased the tracks and the lease payments retired the bonds. For the Howard Branch, it was the Elk & Chautauqua RR that handled the bonds and leased the track.