Flow chart for health care

[redcliffsw]

Go figure.........

http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

[dnalexander]

Red that is the best post you ever made. Having worked 3+ years in a County Hospital\Health Dept. I can tell you that there are reforms that need to be done to Healthcare and Insurance to make it more affordable. I am not arguing those here.

No matter where you stand pro or con all you have to do is look at that flow chart to know something that complicated is not the solution. Simpilier is always better. That looks like a Rube Goldberg machine (is that the correct spelling?)

David

[srkruzich]

IF you take notice. in the lower left corner.  Taxes from business, then taxes from consumers along with mandatory Premiums from consumers for their mandatory insurance.   Essentially this is nothing but sucking the money right out of everyones pocket with the consumer getting screwed not once but three tiems.

IF you suck it out of business, then jobs are lost, pay is cut to the employees, then when you suck it out of the employees pay that is left through taxation, thats a second whammy on the consumer and then the third bend em over without vasoline involves mandatory premiums. 

So we get to pay 3 times for this so called cost cutting health care!!!!!! 

I think i could come up with a simple plan here.  First of all, cut out government from the equation.  Secondly get the doctors where they can run things instead of insurance companies, and stop the frivilous lawsuits that drive up the doctors costs.  Once you do that, you cut costs. 

Shoot lets start with medicare. its one of the most abused systems on the planet.  Every tom dick and harry that sells medical devices marks up their product 600% and sells it to medicare.  They get not only that but they also get 20% of that markup out of the consumers pocket.

Lets start with capping their services to 60% above cost markup.  Thats a fair profit.   That would make a 300 dollar their cost device cost around 550 dollars and 20% of that would be 125 dollars.  IF you did that it would save around 1050 dollars in the medicare department.

[Anmar]

I think i could come up with a simple plan here.  First of all, cut out government from the equation.  Secondly get the doctors where they can run things instead of insurance companies, and stop the frivilous lawsuits that drive up the doctors costs.  Once you do that, you cut costs. 

Shoot lets start with medicare. its one of the most abused systems on the planet.  Every tom dick and harry that sells medical devices marks up their product 600% and sells it to medicare.  They get not only that but they also get 20% of that markup out of the consumers pocket.

Lets start with capping their services to 60% above cost markup.  Thats a fair profit.   That would make a 300 dollar their cost device cost around 550 dollars and 20% of that would be 125 dollars.  IF you did that it would save around 1050 dollars in the medicare department.

ah yes, all good ideas, but that is not capitalism.

[srkruzich]

I think i could come up with a simple plan here.  First of all, cut out government from the equation.  Secondly get the doctors where they can run things instead of insurance companies, and stop the frivilous lawsuits that drive up the doctors costs.  Once you do that, you cut costs. 

Shoot lets start with medicare. its one of the most abused systems on the planet.  Every tom dick and harry that sells medical devices marks up their product 600% and sells it to medicare.  They get not only that but they also get 20% of that markup out of the consumers pocket.

Lets start with capping their services to 60% above cost markup.  Thats a fair profit.   That would make a 300 dollar their cost device cost around 550 dollars and 20% of that would be 125 dollars.  IF you did that it would save around 1050 dollars in the medicare department.

ah yes, all good ideas, but that is not capitalism.

True so a modification here would be let anyone that can provide said services and equipment instead of a list of approved vendors.   The govt has essentially caused this collapse by limiting competition in that you have to be on one of their approved lists.  Get rid of the list and let the market produce.

[Anmar]

So are you saying we should get rid of the FDA?  allow just anyone to manufacture and sell medicine?  abolish all regulation?  Bring back the days of snake oil?

As you may recall, deregulation caused the current financial crisis.

The point i'm making in this post and the previous is that capitalism, just like communism, will fail if it blindly relies on the goodness of man.  Generally, people are good natured, but there are always those greedy few who will do anything for a buck.  Most of the time, those few end up destroying so many people along with them.  It is for that reason that regulation is needed.

[srkruzich]

So are you saying we should get rid of the FDA?  allow just anyone to manufacture and sell medicine?  abolish all regulation?  Bring back the days of snake oil?

Apparantly were safer without the FDA than we are with it. 

As you may recall, deregulation caused the current financial crisis.

Lets see nope deregulation didn't cause it, but changing the rules for two financial institutions did. 

The point i'm making in this post and the previous is that capitalism, just like communism, will fail if it blindly relies on the goodness of man.  Generally, people are good natured, but there are always those greedy few who will do anything for a buck.  Most of the time, those few end up destroying so many people along with them.  It is for that reason that regulation is needed.

Actually i am counting on the greed of man to produce via capitalism.  In their all out greed, prices come down on products when more people compete.  why is it that you need a prescription to get a cpap machine? and why is it that you can only get one from approved vendors?  Why can't i as a entrepreneur buy and resell cpap machines without getting on an approved vendor list?   Its a machine that you can set the settings and send out. 

The sad thing about it is, I can buy one for 300 dollars if i pay cash for it out of my own pocket, but Medicare won't reimburse me my cost unless i buy it from their approved vendor.  Their approved vendor is charging 1600 for it. 

You see its not capitalism even now if you restrict and prohibit the consumer from obtaining it from the lowest priced source. 

I am all for deregulation of every industry. This brings competition and lower prices.  in fact i am all for eliminating the requirment to obtain a prescription for drugs you need.  Its a scam.  You have to go to a doctor to write a prescription. theres a fast 100 bucks out of your pocket, then you take said prescription to a pharmacy, another chunk of change out of your pocket.  Why should i have to pay 100 bucks for a script to obtain a 4 dollar drug? 

If i screw up and get the wrong drug, then so be it. My bad. I suffer the consequences.
I am so tired of government trying to protect me. Don't need it. I am very well schooled in the condcept of caveat emptor!

[Anmar]

While i have no doubt that you are ready and able to take care of yourself, there are those in our society who are not.  Why should a child suffer for the stupidity of their parents?  How does the common man make out the difference between a drink containing real sugar, or the toxic high fructose corn syrup. 

Regulations are a necessary part of the system.  They should be limited in scope, but they are necessary.

[Warph]

HELP.... I've fallen somewhere between "Health Affordability" and "Cultural Lingulistic Competence Training" and I can't get up!!!

[srkruzich]

While i have no doubt that you are ready and able to take care of yourself, there are those in our society who are not.  Why should a child suffer for the stupidity of their parents?  How does the common man make out the difference between a drink containing real sugar, or the toxic high fructose corn syrup. 

Simple make the child a glass of sweet tea in which you put cane sugar in it .
Why should i or anyone else suffer with endless regulation because of the stupidity of parents.   Quite frankly children survived  their parents long before government started taking care of them.

Regulations are a necessary part of the system.  They should be limited in scope, but they are necessary.

Not really.  IF a company produces a inferior product then they are put out of business because folks won't buy it.   Seems to me that regulation hasn't worked on stopping high fructose corn syrup, yet it has managed to suppress the use of Real sugar.  What about natural substitutes.  Try stevia.  regulation prohibits it being labeled as a sweetner or a food and this is a direct result of regulation.   IT is far superior than sweet n low, equal, splenda or any other "FDA approved" toxic chemical.  It is natural has no side effects and is diatetic safe.