2 letters!

[greatguns]

Pam, I so agree with you, but then we do work.  It may have been different when he USE to.  I don't think we even said we wanted their money, just a good wage.

If Steve thinks they should draw down millions while the worker makes $7.00 an hour then him and I will just have to disagree.  If those CEOs were doing their job so well, why the Hell did we have to have the bailouts?

[Varmit]

If the CEO's worth the kind of money he gets because his company is doing well then why shouldn' the working stiff get $22 an hour?

The whole point of this rant is............the CEOS would not be able to make those 7 and 8 figure incomes if it was not for people like US doin the everyday work that brings that money in in the first place...I see NO reason for us to get by on a couple three hundred a week when they piss off more than that on coffee and beer. Oh excuse me those kind of guys don't drink beer (unless it's imported that is). So cry me a river about the guys who most LIKELY inherited what they've got in the first place. I've worked every bit as many hours and a LOT harder than ANY of them sittin behind a desk.They need to remember that without US all their money and ideas ain't worth squat either.

Couple of points here--

1- it is not the "working stiffs" company.  He is free to leave and find another job, or go into business for himself.  Also, most labor jobs are not worth $22 an hour.  If you want to be fair, then lets be fair.  It's not like hanging sheet rock or putting coolers together or putting on lugnuts is rocket science.  

2- Yes there is a difference between physical labor and "sitting behind a desk".  Now most folks who sit behind a desk, with at least some remedial training can do the job of a laborer.  However, the opposite is not true, if it were, then we would have a lot more folks going to and graduating college and forming their own companies, or at least taking a better job.  So while the blue collar worker may hold a position that is physically demanding, the white collar worker holds a position that is, overall, more difficult.  It requires more education, more training, and more time.  So yes, they should be paid more.  While the blue collar worker likes to say that without them the CEO's wouldn't have a job, the laborer needs to remember that it is the CEO providing jobs to the laborer.  If the CEO can't find any laborers, he just moves to where folks want jobs.

3- the only good beer is imported.

4- they havbe tried it with the cheap ones overseas, take toyota for example, cheap laborers with billion dollar CEO's put out a product that was successful, and still is.

[greatguns]

I'm so glad I work for the man that I do because he doesn't seem to think he cand build engine guages as well as I can.  Maybe I am worth more than some.

[srkruzich]

2- Yes there is a difference between physical labor and "sitting behind a desk".  Now most folks who sit behind a desk, with at least some remedial training can do the job of a laborer.  However, the opposite is not true, if it were, then we would have a lot more folks going to and graduating college and forming their own companies, or at least taking a better job.  So while the blue collar worker may hold a position that is physically demanding, the white collar worker holds a position that is, overall, more difficult.  It requires more education, more training, and more time.  So yes, they should be paid more.  While the blue collar worker likes to say that without them the CEO's wouldn't have a job, the laborer needs to remember that it is the CEO providing jobs to the laborer.  If the CEO can't find any laborers, he just moves to where folks want jobs.

One other point that folks don't seem to realize.  Laborers or blue collar workers don't have to deal with corporate office BS.  The white collar workers (in my field) usually die of heart attacks from the stress before their 50's and 60's.  I had my first one at 35.  I tried keeping up with it and after 6 heart attacks and 2 open heart surgeries and 6 angios and all i finally couldn't do it anymore and had deteriorated to the point that i am so worn out that i will probably never be able to do a job again.

The trade offs are more money for having skillsets that pay better but your health goes into the crapper due to stress, bad diets, lack of exercise cause your working 50 -80 hour weeks on salary, sitting at that desk. 

The problem is that the blue collar workers can't make any money without the higher ups.  And there is a limit as to what that labor job is worth.  We see it in cars.  When you have cheap made cars selling for more than i am paying for my house, theres a serious labor overpayment problem.

[pamsback]

the opposite is not true, if it were, then we would have a lot more folks going to and graduating college and forming their own companies, or at least taking a better job.  So while the blue collar worker may hold a position that is physically demanding, the white collar worker holds a position that is, overall, more difficult.  It requires more education, more training, and more time.  So yes, they should be paid more.  While the blue collar worker likes to say that without them the CEO's wouldn't have a job, the laborer needs to remember that it is the CEO providing jobs to the laborer.  If the CEO can't find any laborers, he just moves to where folks want jobs.

Laborers or blue collar workers don't have to deal with corporate office BS.

I don't agree....anybody who thinks there is no brain power involved in doing construction...... as lead man you are responsible for figurin hours/wages/material needed/returns...at least I was. As I said before I am perfectly capable of doing the pencil pushing I just find more satisfaction in the physical end of it...plus I don't have to deal with arrogant big-feeling CEO's very often anyway.

They have to deal with it on the jobsite when some gomer that knows NOTHING about actually doing the job comes out and tries to tell you how to do it, makes you do it his way  and then screams at you when it ain't right. Convienently forgetting you TOLD him it wasn't going to work to start with.

Last one I fixed good. He kept goin around pulling everybodies J off...not because it wasn't put on right ...just to be an a**hole. I fixed him..I was puttin the J across the top of a breezeway...I put a nail every two inches...he jumped up grabbed ahold of it...thought he was gonna pull it off...instead it grabbed his fingers between the siding and the J and he was hangin there squealin for somebody to get him down. Never tried to pull off another piece of my J.

[srkruzich]

Laborers or blue collar workers don't have to deal with corporate office BS.

I don't agree....anybody who thinks there is no brain power involved in doing construction...... as lead man you are responsible for figurin hours/wages/material needed/returns...at least I was. As I said before I am perfectly capable of doing the pencil pushing I just find more satisfaction in the physical end of it...plus I don't have to deal with arrogant big-feeling CEO's very often anyway.

You know what i have worked both sides of the fence.  i have done construction ran my own construction crew, i've driven a semi OTR.  And i worked the other side.  Figuring wages materials and such isn't rocket science.  Anyone with a highschool education can do this. 

The fella that was jerking your j's off wasn't any higher in abilities than you were.  But lets take you or anyone else that works those jobs and put them in my field.

I'll give ya the parts and you put them together and make it work.  Sun e10k server, attach  it to a network build the Sun os operating system install oracle db, set it up get it running, so that the "7.00" an hour folks can enter data into that database.  Then maintain it, keep it from getting hacked by hackers out there, add new programs as they come along and make it available to the users.  Oh also part of the job is to make ALL computers work with this one.   You see this computer is going to keep track of your orders of materials for your company, keep track of the hours and all for your employees figure the taxes out so that you don't have to spend a whole week every quarter doing it by hand. It will compile all the information for your taxes every week and then when you have to file your social security quarterly payments and your state and federal tax payments, you can print it off and have it done in 24 hours.


Oh and this particular piece of equipment is also going to cut your operational costs significantly so you can pay your laborers a little more money later on. But that particular piece of equiment is going to cost you 120k for the man who runs it builds it keeps it going.   Thats like you know 60 dollars an hour. 

Is he worth 60 a hour???
That same guy will put up with pretentious a**holes that think they know something about a computer which in reality give them 2 seconds on that same computer they will fubar the whole system.  Those pretentious a**holes are the managers that get stuck up there because someone higher up gets oral stimulation or something to that effect.

Its the same way in sales, marketing, and R&D.  These are completely two different worlds and neither can exist without the other.

[pamsback]

The fella that was jerking your j's off wasn't any higher in abilities than you were.  But lets take you or anyone else that works those jobs and put them in my field.

Actually the guy pullin the J off was the owner of the development company. He was/is a pretentious ass who likes to stomp around pretending he knows whats going on. He inHERited HIS.

I don't believe I said I could build a computer system, I was saying I can do any part of the pencil pushing in MY field. With the same education I could do your job just fine. You missed the part where I said I CHOSE not to take the office road.

Is he worth 60 a hour???

No nobody is.

That same guy will put up with pretentious a**holes that think they know something about a computer which in reality give them 2 seconds on that same computer they will fubar the whole system.

That skilled laborer of which I am one will put up with pretentious office a**holes who come out and think they know more about what you have been doing for 10 or 15 YEARS fresh out of some college, in which case they will totally fubar up the job if you LET them.

These are completely two different worlds and neither can exist without the other.

I believe that was my whole point...which is a point the OWNERS and  OFFICE guys seem to forget more than the jobsite guys do.


I don't care if that CEO does his job standin on his head, typin on 3 different computers, while cookin a 14 course gourmet dinner...he AIN"T worth 5 or 6 mill or more a year.

[pamsback]

wasn't any higher in abilities than you were.  But lets take you or anyone else that works those jobs and put them in my field.

Also, I didn"t miss this stab. Your opinion of my "abilities" just doesn't matter to me

[srkruzich]

The fella that was jerking your j's off wasn't any higher in abilities than you were.  But lets take you or anyone else that works those jobs and put them in my field.

Actually the guy pullin the J off was the owner of the development company. He was/is a pretentious ass who likes to stomp around pretending he knows whats going on. He inHERited HIS.

Well then he is the owner.  IF he doesn't do it right he will fail. Thats a given.  

I don't believe I said I could build a computer system, I was saying I can do any part of the pencil pushing in MY field. With the same education I could do your job just fine. You missed the part where I said I CHOSE not to take the office road.

I didn't say you did i was merely pointing out as has been discussed in the thread that there are two divisions of work of which neither could get along without the other.

Is he worth 60 a hour???

No nobody is.

Why not?  IF you had to do it how long do you think it would take for you to have to do it.  
60 a hour is cheap considering that without him and the computer that he manages It would cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 or 400 a hour with the combigned salaries of the employees to do that one job.

That same guy will put up with pretentious a**holes that think they know something about a computer which in reality give them 2 seconds on that same computer they will fubar the whole system.

That skilled laborer of which I am one will put up with pretentious office a**holes who come out and think they know more about what you have been doing for 10 or 15 YEARS fresh out of some college, in which case they will totally fubar up the job if you LET them.

Yeah well thats management for ya.  I usually ignored them and did my job.  Told many a manager to get lost in my day, and i could get away with it being a lowly skilled laborer cause i usually had his boss and his boss's boss happy with my work and abilities.  

These are completely two different worlds and neither can exist without the other.

I believe that was my whole point...which is a point the OWNERS and  OFFICE guys seem to forget more than the jobsite guys do.
[/quote]

The problem is that there has to be a set line of how much joe who has no education makes, and john who has higher education and what he makes. That education is worth money cause it cost them money and time and extra effort to achieve.

I don't care if that CEO does his job standin on his head, typin on 3 different computers, while cookin a 14 course gourmet dinner...he AIN"T worth 5 or 6 mill or more a year.

If you were the ceo or owner of a company you wouldn't pay yourself 6 mil a year if your company was that profitable???

[srkruzich]

wasn't any higher in abilities than you were.  But lets take you or anyone else that works those jobs and put them in my field.

Also, I didn"t miss this stab. Your opinion of my "abilities" just doesn't matter to me

That wasn't a stab at you. It was merely an observation.  Its obvious that he had the abilities that you did otherwise he wouldn't be the owner.

I wouldn't say your abilities were good nor bad unless i saw your work.  IF it was crap i would say it was crap if it was quality you would know it was quality. 

I am not one who puts up with crap.    I pay for the best,  expect the best from the best when i use the best.