Big Brother is here...

[frawin]

Diane I can assure you that the Cenus takers in West Texas have a pretty good idea when they are talking to Illegals. I never said that there is a an effort to leave the illegals out of the census by anybody, however there is an effort to do so by the illegals.

[Diane Amberg]

I just checked and next year every household will get just a census short form sent to your place of residence. It will be based on the form that was tried out in selected ares in 2008. There is room for information on 12 residents in the household. The more detailed information that was sent to some people last census is being relegated to the American Community Survey that is sent to some people every year on a rotating basis across the country. Everyone eventually gets it too. Frank, I do know what you mean. But the census isn't meant to be about illegals.

[frawin]

Diane, the census is in part to be about illegals and it should be, Illegals in this country are one of the most critical problems that need to be addressed. Below is an article regarding census data and illegals.

Census Bureau: Over 100,000
Illegal Aliens from the Middle East
New Government Report Raises
Concerns in Light of Terrorist Threat


WASHINGTON (January 22, 2002) — In a newly released report, the Census Bureau estimated that perhaps 115,000 people from Middle Eastern countries live in the United States illegally. The estimates are based on the bureau's preliminary analysis of the 2000 census. The findings are especially troubling given the role failures in immigration control played in September's terrorist attacks. Not only were at least three of the September 11th hijackers illegal aliens, a number of past terrorists have also been illegal aliens from the Middle East, including Gazi Ibrahim Abu Mezer, who tried to bomb the New York subway system in 1997, and Mohammed Salameh, who took part in the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.

The entire Census Bureau report containing estimates of the illegal population by country of origin can be found at: http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0061.html (See Page 36, Table A-6).

The new numbers include some individuals who may have since received legal status and also include about 24,000 illegals from Israel, but do not include Pakistan, which the Immigration and Naturalization Service previously estimated had more than 40,000 illegals in the United States. The figures for the Middle East also do not include North African countries such as Egypt and Algeria, which have sent a number of terrorists to the United States in the past. Africa as a whole, including Sub-Saharan Africa, accounts for perhaps 243,000 illegals, according to the Census Bureau report. Overall, the report estimates that as many as 8.7 million illegal aliens may have been counted in the 2000 Census.

Implications of the report:

• Current efforts by the Justice Department to make 6,000 Middle Eastern men who have been ordered deported actually return to their home countries barely scratch the surface. According to the Census Bureau, there are perhaps 58,000 non-Israeli Middle Eastern men living in the United States illegally, not including Pakistan or North African countries.

• Current efforts to more carefully scrutinize visa applications from Middle Eastern countries are likely to be far less effective if immigration laws continue to remain largely unenforced, as the figures in the report indicate.

• The fact that more than eight million illegal aliens now live in the country demonstrates that amnesties don't solve the problem of illegal immigration. Although 2.7 million of the estimated five million illegal aliens living in the country in 1986 were given amnesty (legal permanent residence), the new estimates indicate that they have been entirely replaced by new illegal aliens and that by 2000 the illegal population was at least three million larger than before the last amnesty.

• Although the INS has very serious shortcomings, it is not primarily responsible for this situation. Instead, the problem lies with Congress and successive administrations, Democratic and Republican. All have failed to provide the money or political support the INS needs to enforce the ban on hiring illegals and to track down those who overstay their visas.

"It is difficult to overstate the implications of this new report for the security of our nation," said Steven A. Camarota, Director of Research at the Center for Immigration Studies. "While the vast majority of illegals from the Middle East are not terrorists, the fact that tens of thousands of people from that region and millions more from the rest of the world can settle in the United States illegally means that terrorists who wish to do so face few obstacles. We can't protect ourselves from terrorism without dealing with illegal immigration."

By not adequately policing the borders; by not enforcing time limits on visas and the ban on hiring illegals; by allowing illegals to attend college, open bank accounts, and obtain drivers licenses with little difficulty and by not even ensuring that those who are ordered deported actually go home, it is inevitable that millions of illegal aliens will settle in the United States, including tens of thouands from the primary terrorist-sending countries. Because the terrorist threat comes almost exclusively from foreign-born individuals, immigration enforcement must be a central part of efforts to reduce the likelihood of future attacks. In addition to concerns over terrorism, the huge number of illegal aliens living in the country also has significant implications for public services and the job prospects of low-wage Americans in the current economic downturn.

# # #

The Center for Immigration Studies is a non-profit, non-partisan research organization which examines and critiques the impact of immigration on the United States. It is not affiliated with any other group.

[Diane Amberg]

I skipped the word "just". Sorry, I meant "just about illegals." Again, I don't disagree.  Populations and population migration around the country is one of the things the census is used for. Al could tell you much more than I.  He was the Delaware Population Consorsium chairman for many years.

[Varmit]

David, this is what I meant by right hands...

99. Moving the Census out of the Department of Commerce and into the White House. -warph

[Teresa]

Here is the questions for the Census..

http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downloads/Questions_Planned_for_the_2010_Census_and_American_Community_Survey.pdf

You know.........?
I understand the need for a census for apportionment purposes, but I don't think, at the point of a gun, we should be required to answer any other questions........ regardless of what government allocations are involved.   
Count noses, ages and citizenship status.  That's it.  It's no business of the federal government how many toilets I have or what my financial income is or how much money I made off my land. or if I take care of my grandchildren.. yada yada etc etc..
2 people live in this house.. One is a full blown American.. the other is a "legal" citizen of the United States..
I put down my pencil after that! I don't give a tinkers damn about their so called  government allocations..
so ....................I won't lie.. I just won't tell them anything that is none of their business!
Period.. end.. over and out!.

[Diane Amberg]

Teresa, I know I won't convince you but I'll try. Local and state governments also use national census data to predict areas of growth, school population, highway needs, water needs and on and on. A lot is used for marketing. When Al was working as a planner, a person from somewhere might come into the planning Dept. because they  wanted  consider opening a furniture store. They could look at all sorts of data. The age of any given community, the age of the residents, the number of kids,etc. If an area is young and growing like our Middletown, there are young families who will be buying furniture. My area is old and settled, very few school aged kids right now. Nobody needs much furniture. In a few years that will change as people move to assisted living or die. The population will become young again. With the same thinking, our older community is slowing replacing their old toilets with the smaller tank, less water models. We just bought one for our downstairs powder room. It's a two stage very efficient model. My water use will drop. That's good for our city. I'll be replacing the others too.  That will be reflected in the census. Marketing people will know that in an older area chances are good that the Lowes and Home Depot should stock low flow models. Builders know that in new homes they might as well put in the low flow as an option because that is what younger home owners will want, hence asking ages in the home. Many of the census questions allow for short and long range planning for services that will be needed.  Otherwise all you can do is react and no planning ahead can ever be done. It's not just nosey, honest.

[Varmit]

Why don't the people of home depot and lowes do their own market research instead of wasting my tax dollars having the gov't do it for them?  As for highway needs, school population, water needs etc.  These things can be detemined in many different ways for example:

1)  Highway needs...If the sale of homes or construction of new homes in an area are going up, than it can be assumed that the population of that area is going to increase, school population will likely increase, water needs will go up, and possiblly the need to connect that area with the highway system could arise.


I was going to go into a little more detail on that, but I guess I don't need to.  Bottom line is that the gov't does not need to go into the market research field.  It needs a headcount, thats all.

[redcliffsw]

Billy, I agree. 

Local gov't's are not good planners.  Even with data, they miss.

"Planning & zoning" is another one we could do without.

[Wilma]

If I were going to build a new house in a new development, I would want the necessary roads in first.  I would also want to know that there was going to be water and sewer available and a good school not too far away and I wouldn't want to wait for any of it.  I am, after all, just a good old impatient American.