Pelosi: 'We Want Registration'

pam · April 14, 2009, 08:16:10 AM

QuoteA new question - At what point are we willing to lay it on the line ... like our Founding Fathers did?

((I'd like to answer my own question..but I will wait and see what anyone has to say..))

That's a good question...............and one I have no idea what the answer is. Everytime somebody DOES try to buck the government you end up with a Ruby Ridge or some other schmuck labeled a nut-case criminal. There are people all over who are quietly refusing to do what the governement says. They are arrested.....labeled nut-case.....some people laugh at em... some people are scared of em.....some say oh how cool but never do anything to help. Some people are mad at them for havin the audacity to make waves. People just don't care that much anymore in truth. They are too "civilized" to stand up and do the dirty work. They don't mind enough to risk losin anything anyway..even if what they gain will be worth much more in the long run. They all want the benefits without the initial sacrifice to get it. They sit around and piss and moan about the government takin their money and their "freedom" but that's about it. To be quite honest........I don't think it will EVER happen.

Diane Amberg · April 14, 2009, 08:40:13 AM

It's the densely populated areas that tend to have the gun problems. I still think gun regulation should be a state, if not local issue. People's feelings will always reflect where people live and where they were raised. I can't imagine why Elk county would ever need to even consider gun regulations. Big cities with bad sections....that's a totally different thing. If you lived there you would feel differently. I see both sides of it. School shootings? Should those kids have the constutuional right to shoot up their classmates? What about the rights of those being shot at?

pam · April 14, 2009, 09:23:34 AM

I see what you are sayin Diane I really do. But what about the rights of the OTHER kids to defend themselves AGAINST the one doin the shootin? Or the person stuck in a bad neighborhood because of whatever reason having the right to defend themselves against the gang-bangers and drug dealers? Why should they be at the mercy of the bad guys? Cause the bad guys are GOING to have the guns y'know...one way or the other.
When I was growin up 9 out of ten trucks had a gun behind the seat or hangin in the back window...even at school. Nobody EVER shot anybody.
Guns are not the problem.....poverty...no parental involvement....whether it's from being too tired from workin just to survive or from a nasty drug habit....no hope of anything better....no hope period....hate......drugs......those are the problems. Banning guns is not gonna solve those problems anymore than it's gonna solve the crime and shooting problems.

larryJ · April 14, 2009, 09:41:07 AM

Pam is close to the answer, at least one of the answers. My answer is to began using the democratic process such as our founding fathers did, in that communities get together behind someone they respect and take their opinions to their representatives and senators. As Pam stated there are those who are considered nutcases or militants so the people need to find a local community leader who is above reproach and is respected and go with him to their congressmen and tell them this is the way things should be and if you don't follow the people's wishes then we will vote someone in who will. Our founding fathers had to listen to a variety of opinions and demands from each state while setting up our government. These opinons were given by representatives chosen by the people of each colony/state. This was and is the democratic process. What has happened over the years is that the government has convinced the people that it knows better and that the people should just listen and follow along with the governments all-wise decisions. When the people make a serious demand in large numbers, maybe the government will sit up and pay attention. The biggest example and most well known would be the civil rights movement carried on by Dr. Martin Luther King. There was enough pressure from the people on the government that it had to change the rules and allow civil rights to all peoples including the current you-know-who. Larryj

Diane Amberg · April 14, 2009, 10:09:00 AM

We have a good many Quaker kids here. They would not be armed even if they could be. If all the school kids are going to be armed, they better start having "shooting'' as a subject in school. Immature kids with guns don't have any more sense than immature kids who do all the dumb things kids do anyway. We had an interesting incident at Newark High School just last week. A student saw a hand gun in another students back pack. He sent a text message to a friend at another school asking that student to get help. He did. The principal of the one school called the other and kid was nabbed without incident. He said he had the weapon for protection, but refused to say from whom or why. That one has yet to be resolved. As far as adults who live in bad neighborhoods, I understand that....except it never stops. Somebody always needs to get even. Recently two boys in Philly were having a fuss and one went home mad. Everyone thought it was over. It wasn't. He came back with a gun, knocked on the door and instantly shot the person who answered....it was the younger brother. He died. The families have now declared war on each other. I know gun control doesn't work, but arming everyone to the teeth is a very unChristian like answer as far as I'm concerned. There has to be another way somehow. People in certain areas desperately need conflict resolution training, in huge doses. I have talked at length to some of my police officer friends. They tell me arming everyone is far too simplistic an answer and would make their job much more dangerous. Then there would be twice as many bullets flying around fired by people who don't shoot nearly as well as they think they do. Some of them suggested going out for paint ball to see how good you are with targets that move and shoot back. If you come out of it with no hits on your self, then maybe for you it might work. I thought that was a rather clever idea. Has Elk County ever thought about a paint ball area? In the meantime, do what you think is right for you, but don't forget the whole country is not like Elk County.

pam · April 14, 2009, 10:32:53 AM

QuoteIf all the school kids are going to be armed, they better start having "shooting'' as a subject in school.

Actually Diane... that is a very good idea. That goes back to the way I was raised...which was to respect guns and what they could do.

QuotePeople in certain areas desperately need conflict resolution training, in huge doses

People in MOST areas need that. Nobody just argues anymore. Even if kids could just have a fist fight and get it over with like when I was a kid but no we teach them to swallow their anger and keep it swallowed until it's just impossible to contain and then somthing tragic happens. I'm all for the turn the other cheek thing but sometimes you HAVE to fight and kids no longer know how to do that and come out of it if not friends at least agreein to disagree. Hell. most adults can't even do THAT anymore.

Quotedon't forget the whole country is not like Elk County.

No it's not.....I don't live in Elk county...never did...I'm from Severy. But in all reality on a smaller scale it is when you think about it. Kids are bullied in school there....but they don't go to school and shoot people over it..so what's the difference that keeps that from happening? Maybe the things I was talkin about like parental involvement or just havin a fight and getting it out of their system ..there is a MAJOR meth problem in that neck of the woods, has been for years....which causes theft and other crime problems but a lot of kids still manage to avoid it which brings me back to parental involvment and giving them hope instead of just telling them by your actions there is never goin to be anything better for them and they have absolutely nothing to look forward to but death.

I am not for people runnin around willy nilly dealin out "justice" as they see fit Diane. I KNOW some people don't have the judgment needed and will shoot the wrong person but damn you can't throw the baby out with the bath water and take away the rights of people who DO. The fact of the matter is we are NEVER going to stop killing.....of innocents or others....because there is always gonna be that one person that snaps and if they don't have a gun Diane they are going to use whatever they can get. Right now guns are what we have. It was too late to do away with guns when they built the first one. Just like a whole host of OTHER weapons biological and otherwise. All we can do is leave people the means to defend themselves when the necesity arises. That's just the way it is and nobody regrets that fact more than I do, cause I know things don't HAVE to be the way they are.......

Diane Amberg · April 14, 2009, 10:46:51 AM

Maybe we need to bring back the school boxing ring and have the angry kids have at it until they are so exhausted they forget what they are mad about. But then I suppose someone's "cousin" would carry the fight on. And yes, parents not doing effective parenting, for whatever reason, is at least 90% of the problem. They should be forced to watch "Super Nanny."

srkruzich · April 14, 2009, 11:04:19 AM

Quote from: pam on April 14, 2009, 08:16:10 AM
QuoteA new question - At what point are we willing to lay it on the line ... like our Founding Fathers did?

((I'd like to answer my own question..but I will wait and see what anyone has to say..))

That's a good question...............and one I have no idea what the answer is. Everytime somebody DOES try to buck the government you end up with a Ruby Ridge or some other schmuck labeled a nut-case criminal. There are people all over who are quietly refusing to do what the governement says. They are arrested.....labeled nut-case.....some people laugh at em... some people are scared of em.....some say oh how cool but never do anything to help. Some people are mad at them for havin the audacity to make waves. People just don't care that much anymore in truth. They are too "civilized" to stand up and do the dirty work. They don't mind enough to risk losin anything anyway..even if what they gain will be worth much more in the long run. They all want the benefits without the initial sacrifice to get it. They sit around and piss and moan about the government takin their money and their "freedom" but that's about it. To be quite honest........I don't think it will EVER happen.

You should watch the movie the patriot. The majority of folks back then didn't lift a finger to help. IT was a very few patriots in this country that won our freedom. Very few.

pam · April 14, 2009, 11:06:40 AM

Pretty good movie

Teresa · April 14, 2009, 04:27:34 PM

I don't honestly think anyone knows the answer and maybe there isn't one ...
I do think when the sheep start getting their necks stepped on, gun butts in the teeth and they cease to be a hindrance to common sense....i.e., get an education and a distaste for having been lazy and stupid and no longer have a taste for supporting fascists. Win the hearts and minds....

Not to say spontaneous social combustion will not be exploited, but that's still a wait and see. Otherwise just as Pam stated...a brave person's sacrifice may be seen as the "crazy uncle" and dismissed.
Delicate thing...the largest portion of common sense supporting LEO and military personnel would be early into this takeover we're seeing....wait too long and they'll be replaced or changed to the jack booted thugs we heard of in the 90's.

I honestly hope we don't ...as a nation ....just roll over like England and Australia did. A lack of necessities, food, water, etc. would make a population desperate and if.. as a nation.. we're not desperate, I don't think the people will do too much more than talk.

I just have to hope and pray that America will stand up and fight back. We..as a country, still are alone in the fact that hopefully there are still people out there who believe in individualism, and self sufficiency.
That is my "hope".. but in all actuality in the realism of things.. I think fewer people are individualistic...as evidenced by the absolute abomination we have for a President and Speaker of the House that was elected and who hold the offices now.
I read somewhere that some think that the LEGAL immigrants are going to lead the charge on this. After all they came here to escape this sort of nonsense and tyranny.
My personal opinion on this?? As far as the immigrants, I am absolutely certain they will not say anything. They escaped a bad situation and were well educated in saying nothing and avoiding eye contact.. mostly they came over being sheep to the core.
I think the neighborhoods in Texas and other southern border states are an example of a lack of will to say anything that would make you stand out. The only immigrants talking...are the one's who are tied to the violent gangs or who are under an umbrella of a leader calling for some movement...such as letting all foreigners in and making them instant citizens.

You have to consider who elects the idiot Mayors in the towns and states. It's the socialistic, hands out sheep, that's who. The only way to get them out of the box is to cut off their goodies and I'll tell you after 50 plus years here on earth the politicians don't forget that part. The first places in communities that get their services back, like electricity and water after a problem, are the areas populated by welfare recipients. I hate to say it but we were sold out a long time ago and have been diluted with sheep who have no business being here and by the violent gangs we aren't' being protected from.

At first it was slick talking, lying good old boys laughing at the other one's in the same club by getting elected when the others didn't....and the water temperature rose. Then they were overtaken by the idealistic believers of "Great Society" socialism....and the water temperature rose. Now we have flaming radicals and the temperature is rising once again.....to a full bubbling boil.

Unless we band together and are willing to fight....I hate to say this, but to me.. it looks like its game over for America.
The police and National Guard picked up guns in New Orleans and not a shot was fired....pretty telling. If elements of the military don't start a revolt I don't see any real changes. Perhaps a Kosovo type thing if the food and energy comes into short supply. We have diversity and selfishness now.

Personally I think the urban areas of America will sheepishly go miserably socialist while the Rural and wilderness areas will contain bands of us *who the government will call outlaws" ..who will band together and will be willing to stand up against socialists wanting to take over. Worst case .. those people will be hunted and killed by the Govt. just like the Ukrainian partisans after WW II. History has an ugly way of repeating itself.

But regardless of whatever goes on.. I'm planning on hunkering down and finishing my generation out in this small town rural area where I can hunt and fish and garden and be ready to help feed my children's future families. Looking at generations passing, mine was the first "lost" generation and it got worse after that. I've gained ground lost in the 70's craziness ( which I was a part of) and have hopefully rightly educated my children and instituted American values in them...as they will do with their children... my grandchildren.

There will be another side of this thing, but I don't know if it will be in my lifetime.