School Changes

[indygal]

Thank you, Liz, for the some real numbers that will hopefully calm some folks' nerves. Unfortunately, there are some nay-sayers who claim that money is the issue, when it's really their emotions driving the bus off the cliff. I hope cooler and wiser heads prevail on Tuesday, and we can give the county's young people what they deserve.

I used this analogy earlier today, and thought it was worth repeating. In regards to the improvements made to the Moline and Severy schools some years ago (media rooms, multi-purpose room, etc. -- which are nice, but ....), it's similar to spending money for bypass surgery on a patient who's dying of incurable cancer. It buys a little time but at great expense. It does nothing to improve longevity or quality of life, and the same result is achieved in the end whether the surgery was a success or not.

[Lookatmeknow!!]

Oh, you said it GREAT indygal!!  It's not about the money to many, that's my opinion.  Yes, I live in Howard now, but as I stated 100 times, I grew up in Severy.  Many of my childrens teachers were my teachers, Mrs. Perkins was one.  I hate to see this happen, too.  But come on something has got to give, and I still don't hear anyone tell me any good solution!!!

[sixdogsmom]

Liz, you failed to mention that the taxes you quote will be plus what you will already be paying. That is, if you already pay close to $1000.00 per year then your school bond issue will be on top of that tax. Has anyone mentioned that Elk county has the largest unemployment rate in the state? We rank number one, at 11% folks. It is not a good time to add more tax burden. And remember, if you rent, then your landlord will be paying more taxes, and you will probably be looking at an increase in rental payments. And Angie, you didn't answer my long ago question about how you would feel if it were proposed to build a new grade school building in another town?

[pepelect]

Liz, you failed to mention that the taxes you quote will be plus what you will already be paying. That is, if you already pay close to $1000.00 per year then your school bond issue will be on top of that tax. Has anyone mentioned that Elk county has the largest unemployment rate in the state? We rank number one, at 11% folks. It is not a good time to add more tax burden. And remember, if you rent, then your landlord will be paying more taxes, and you will probably be looking at an increase in rental payments. And Angie, you didn't answer my long ago question about how you would feel if it were proposed to build a new grade school building in another town?

You have not answered my question about how to lower our tax bill with out eliminating both grade schools.  Didn't you mention that you travel to Bartlesville, Sedan, and Independence to shop for things that you could get in Elk County.  You would pay much higher sales tax in Bartlesville and would be contributing to their city as well as their county.  I am sure that they are very appreciative of you as a customer.  Sedan consolidated their schools years ago.  They have one campus are are benefiting from the low LOB because of their foresight.  Independence has just pasted a huge bond issue to build a new school. They also have a higher sales tax rate that I am sure you are well aware of and I am sure the school system there is very proud of the school that you are building them. 

When is a good time to add more taxes?  For the last thirty years we have had better times than this and it was not a better time to fix the school problem.  The issue has been around through seven presidential administrations.  We have had several  school board members that were told not over my dead body.  So when may I ask is a good time to bring this before the community?

The day after we are told to lock the doors?

I don't live in Howard and never have even slept a night there.  I looked back over the books for the last 14 years I have had 13% more business from people in Moline and Severy than Howard.  So if we are just going to look at the numbers of dollars and where they are spent I am from Severy and Moline.  I also buy a lot more things from Moline and Severy than I do in Howard.   Did I do so because there was a grade school there? No.  Will I discontinue because there might not be one there in the future? No. 

So why is the litmus test of a community's prosperity the fact that there is a school building in the city limits?  Our communities are not three separate countries with brick walls between them.  We are interlaced from the ground up.  We have a very rural agricultural based economy but yet in Howard you can't buy a cup of feed for a cow. Try to buy more than 50 lbs of dog food at a time, need some body work done on your car, need propane sorry, want to sell some grain, or buy a pair of leather gloves and where do you think you are going to do this?  You are either going to Severy or Moline.  We need all three communities to work together .  So why does it matter where Angie lives?  You should be asking where does Angie want to be in the future.

[Wilma]

I remember when a new high school building was proposed in another town, which meant tearing down the old Severy High School building and how upset some of the old people who had gone to school in the old building were.  I couldn't understand why they were upset.  A building is a building, not a person.  It was not practical to try to save it and use it for something else.  It wasn't safe to hold classes in.

Personally, I don't care where a new building is built, if it were put in Severy or in Moline, or out in the country someplace.  A new school building should be as centrally located as possible.  Besides, where the new school is located is not the issue here.  The new school building is the issue.  It is either go on the way we are, knowing that we can't afford to or doing something about it.  Yes, it will cost.  Using the formula that Liz gave us, I figure that two tanks of gas would just about equal the increase in my taxes.  I can give up two tanks of gas a year.

As to renters having to pay more rent, I don't believe that the low income housing pays taxes, therefore, their rent should not be increased because of an increase in taxes.  Landlords have other expenses that can cause an increase in rent.  There is  higher insurance, higher cost of repairs, etc.  These are all things that you have to expect when you own property.  Remember, one of the two things that are certain in life is taxes.

[sixdogsmom]

Flo, I got one of the Pigeon Inn fliers, amusing to say the least. Had some good points also. I don't know who gets the credit, so there are certainly others than yours truly who are not supporting this bond issue.

[pepelect]

Remember this a flyer that is supposed to tell you that there isn't a need to put more money in to your local school system.  You have spoken to the lack of readability of many posts on here.  So let me hear you critique it for spelling, grammar, and punctuation.

The "Pigeon Inn" was sold by the district many years, if not decades ago.  It was a taxable thriving business for many years.  It has had three or four different owners.  So  how do you blame its current state of disrepair on the school district.  If you sell a house and you pass ownership of the property to them you are no longer responsible for the structure.  Some else lives there.  If they sell it and someone else moves in and trashes it.  Do you  then bear the responsibility to go and live in it?   

Why is this an issue for a school bond?  The picture isn't even that good.  If they would have used their heads they would have gotten pictures of the inside up through the roof.  Sensationalism sells to the masses.

"They refer to a centralized campus,"  is my favorite quote. Back on the bus has been sung by every kid in the entire system at some point in there tenure at West Elk.  You ride as a elementary school kid, you ride as a junior high kid, and you ride as a high school kid.  It just depends on where you live as to how long you ride.

We want a centralized campus to save money.  An enrichment program is something that we can do with the money saved from achieving a centralized campus. 

We offer a SCOOT program currently but there is no funding stream for its guaranteed existence.  It is not a required course, no testable value, and would probably be one of the first programs cut. 

Unemployment at 11%.   1135 number of workers available.  1010 currently employed.       125 unemployed 

3047 total in 2008.    So if you look at it from the big picture of the 3047 that want a job 125 can't find one.  95.8976% of the people living in Elk county are doing exactly what they want to be doing.  4.10239 percent aren't.

[patyrn]

I really should stay out of this because I'm an out-of-state Elk County taxpayer and can't even vote in the election.  However, this is NOT an issue of an elementary school being built in Howard.  The high school happens to be in Howard, so that IS where the elementary needs to be to so everything can be centralized and run much more economically effectively.  If the high school had been constructed on the Elk County Airport grounds, that is where the elementary should be.  If the high school had been built north on Highway 99, that is where the elementary school should be.  This county has got to pull together and let all those old, old rivalries disappear.  

I was in high school when we went from individual school districts to the Unified District 282.  That made many people uneasy.  Did it interfere with my education?  No.  Later on when the high schools were consolidated, many people were uneasy.  Did the students care and did it interfere with their education?  No.  We are going down a dead-end road with no turn-around if we don't wake up and keep control of our schools.  Things are tight economically for all of us, but this is well worth facing and addressing in a positive manner  to preserve what our Elk County kids deserve.    

[sixdogsmom]

Why is this an issue for a school bond?  The picture isn't even that good.  If you would have used your head you would have gotten pictures of the inside up through the roof.  Sensationalism sells to the masses.

Excuse me? I have already said that I thought the flyer was amusing, but I had nothing to do with it!
 

[Teresa]

I have been sitting quietly back in the background( I know .. shocker!)   and have really read and studied all that has been said on both sides of the issue..
I don't have much to add. I think that the ones that are for it have more than covered all the facts..and the ones that are not for it.. have spoken their minds and covered what they deem important also. This forum has been a wealth of information on this subject and from that I have better been able to listen to the talk around town from those who do not post in here. I have appreciated all sides of this issue. I don't have kids in school.. but I do have grandkids that will be going to school here hopefully for the full extent of their grade school and high school educations.
Wanda Mills made some very common sense statements that I know for a fact, is on everyone's minds and are major concern factors.. They are on all of our minds regardless of if we are pro pr con on this issue. I think that everyone who is concerned with the money issue is also caring and concerned for the education and safety of our children and grandchildren. Money and rising taxes are a huge concern for everyone now.
But... taxes everywhere have steadily but surely gone up each and every year and they are going to continue to do so. I don't think this out of control speeding train is going to stop for a long time.
And right now  with the administration we have in the White House ..and the horrible shape our economy is in isn't probably the best time to be building anything.  But when IS a good time?? Building materials are not going to go down... Labor costs to build are not going to get cheaper..current equipment that is wearing out is not going to suddenly start working properly or get cheaper to replace and the list goes on and on.
How much money are we willing to continue to put in 3 separate buildings and hope that they all continue to creak and groan by for the next 20-30  years?  
Yes.. our taxes will go up some. They go up every month in one way or another..
I mean every time you add new windows on your house.. a new shed in your back yard.. fresh paint on your garage..mow your grass more than once a week... add a few yard ornaments to your lawn ...the beady little greedy eyes of the appraiser is quick to run back and jot it all down so it can be added to your taxes.. ) **sorry.. got off on another rant there** So yeah.. our taxes will go up.. the question you have to ask yourselves is ... do we want to pay for doing something like this now? or later.. cause something will have to be done sometime. Having a county as small and spread out as ours is and our children scattered all over in patched up buildings isn't going to be real conducive to saving money in the future.  

My vote is.. get rid of the scattered out expenses.. scattered out kids.. scattered out teachers..
Build one school... get everyone all together... compact it up and lets get on with our lives.