Wind Farms or Coal Mines

[Flintauqua]

Alas, if we had enough water to pump uphill. . . .

In California there are windfarms that are used to pump water uphill and stored during "off peak" times, so that the same water can be released through hydroelectric generators during the highest peak times, when power is worth as much as 50 times more.

[pepelect]

How can we court a value added elk county commody using industry with out viable water for them to make said widgets.   We have been converting gas powered oil wells to electric for years.  Why not go one step further convert the wind to energy to pump the natural gas or oil into a pipeline.   Pump the natural gas into a storage field until there is no wind and then use the stored gas.  Is the current value of the raw material greater that the future value of the material plus the cost of the storage.   Sounds like commody hedging or farming 101.  Penny Swanson a little help here.... Is it cheaper to store energy for future use hoping the price will go up or use the energy now to lower the current price by having more available?

[Flintauqua]

Or, if we moved to a hydrogen society, then we could use the electricity from the wind farms to split water into oxygen and hydrogen.  But would we be any more efficient than just taking the wind electricity to power electric motors instead of hydrogen engines?

[srkruzich]

Or, if we moved to a hydrogen society, then we could use the electricity from the wind farms to split water into oxygen and hydrogen.  But would we be any more efficient than just taking the wind electrity to power electric motors instead of hydrogen engines?

Your still going to need water to produce hydrogen

Plus hydrogen is not a viable solution  to produce and store.  Produce hydrogen on demand is the best way to do it. 

Once it is produced, use it immediately and you don't have to spend a fortune in storage units.

I want to put a HHO in my pickup as soon as i can get the stuff to make one.

[Diane Amberg]

Solar technology is also improving quickly also, you could use that for some things too.

[Tobina+1]

2 nights ago on KWCH, they had the news story about T. Boone Pickens and his support for wind energy.  So, last night, they had to do their "other side" news story and interviewed some guy up at Beaumont who said that all the wind towers are going to suck the wind right out of the world.  And they will cause climate changes.  And they will cause the demise of the prairie chicken. 
So, guess we'll have to cut down all the trees in the world, b/c they block more wind than the wind towers.  And we'll have to ground all airplanes b/c they are causing more wind.  And we'll have to kill all the coyotes so they don't eat any more prairie chickens.  And, OH!, I felt it... no more wind today and the temp is going to get over 100 degrees!  I can feel the climate change!   

[frawin]

Great Post Tobina. One of the operators in West Texas that I do marketing for has a lot of the Windmills on his Ranch in Upton County Texas. Myrna and I drove up to the Windmill Farm area and just sat and listened to them. Very quiet, wildlife everywhere and cattle grazing all around. The windmills on his ranch is a joint venture with Florida power and light. I can't think of a cleaner, more efficent or more energy producing verses savings than the windmills. The cost is tremendous but I think the long term rewards are worth it. I am surprised that Queen Nancy doesn't outlaw the windmills, especially since the investors that provide the capital are wealthy people, as is the case in most of the energy sources in this world. The liberals seem to think noone should make a profit for taking the risks, (sorry I am getting off of the subject). I think Boone Pickens is on the right track, windpower and natural gas will be a big source of energy in the future. If we don't start drilling in some of the big reserve areas we will be in the same fix on ntural Gas as we are on oil, dependent of the enemy foreign governmets for our supply. We are already importing lots of Natural Gas(LNG) and building facilities to import more. We should not have to import Natural Gas given the known reserves in this country.
Frank

[Tobina+1]

Oh, I forgot that this guy at Beaumont also said they were an eyesore.  Yes, much more ugly than oil wells leaking salt water into the pastures and killing the natural grass around and downhill from it.  NOT.

The towers at Beaumont are quite a sight, for sure.  But drive West on I-70 from Salina and view the towers being built between the Brookville and West Ellsworth exits... that is an amazing sight!  My favorite view is going down one of the hills and around the corner at sunset, and you have a perfect vew of a little water windmill that's probably a hundred years old standing there in the pasture with a HUGE wind tower in the background.  I always want to stop and take a picture and call it "Water, Wind, and Fire".  (But normally someone else is gawking at the towers and about to run off the road, so I just keep moving!)  I don't know how many towers are going up, but many, many more than Beaumont.  It's probably 10 miles long along the interstate. 

[frawin]

Tobina, in West Texas, in Oklahoma West of Oklahoma City on I-40 and in California on Highway 10 to Palm Springs there are massive Windfarms with literally 100s of the Windmill-Generators. The areas in West Texas and the area going to Palm Springs are all Desert areas and not suitable to any farming and very little, if any value in grazing livestock. There are always nay sayers for everything, but for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would be more in favor of Strip Coal Mining, Oil and Gas Drilling, polluting the atmosphere, verses wind powered generators. As far as the Prairie Chickens, I hunted them alot when I was younger and they came into my Father-in-Law's by the hundreds. Recently someone said to me " what do you think destroyed the Prairie Chicken that they don't come into the old Buffalow place". My response was that nothing destroyed them, it is just that when my Father-in-Law was alive and farming he planted corn, maize, wheat, soybeans every year as did all of his neighbors, now there is nothing planted for miles around. If people will think back, virtually all of the Prairie Chicken hunting was over grain fields that don't exist anymore.
Frank

[Diane Amberg]

I've seen those wind farms in California and on the way to Palm Springs. They have been there for some years now and I agree, they are quite amazing.