Better Fill up today

[srkruzich]

I expect there will be some investigations into this; I remember when 9/11 occurred, they did a lot of price gouging here in Kansas, and those guilty of it were punished by the state. And well they should, it is disgraceful to take unfair advantage of a situation.

I don't believe in making laws limiting what a person can sell a product for. Thats going beyond what the governments
powers are.  I believe if they wish to sell a gallon of gas for 100 dollars a gallon during any emergency then
they ought to be able to sell it for that.   The way you stop them from doing it is voting with the dollar not the power of government

[pam]

The state here has regulations about keepin people from gouging on things that are needed by people in a bind. Good deal in my opinion, keeps the vultures at bay. During the ice storm a couple years ago we had people buyin up generators and bringin em in and sellin for twice, sometimes more, what they paid just because there weren't any anywhere else. WE had a wood stove for heat and cookin, lots of people didn't and got ripped off.

[srkruzich]

The state here has regulations about keepin people from gouging on things that are needed by people in a bind. Good deal in my opinion, keeps the vultures at bay. During the ice storm a couple years ago we had people buyin up generators and bringin em in and sellin for twice, sometimes more, what they paid just because there weren't any anywhere else. WE had a wood stove for heat and cookin, lots of people didn't and got ripped off.

A few years ago, one of them hurricanes hit florida, and a buddy of mine and me went and rented trucks and hauled supplies down
to folks down there. We bought generators and all kinds of supplies and transported them down.  I got mine emptied out and on my way back, he was about empty and waited a while to try to sell all that he had then start back. The state came in on him and stole everything from him.  We bought the gensets for like around 100 bucks a piece, sold them for 150 bucks and part of that price markup
was rental and fuel costs to take them down.  We were making like 10 bucks a genset profit for our time invovled.
THey said we were gouging them but no one said a word about home depot, or lowes or any of those box stores refusing to
bring gensets in.   We took inititive and risked our money to bring needed items in and sell at a fair price.

[pam]

That's cool bud. I think you got screwed. The guys I was talkin about were sellin em for 2 and 3 times what they paid for em or what you could've got one at home depot or lowes for if they had had any left. Hell, people were goin around STEALIN em off of peoples houses and takin em and sellin em. It was outrageous. Out here at our place we had no power for 12 days, some people were without for 3 weeks and were in no way prepared for it, them guys racked up some serious bad karma points. There's a big difference between them guys and you all.

[srkruzich]

That's cool bud. I think you got screwed. The guys I was talkin about were sellin em for 2 and 3 times what they paid for em or what you could've got one at home depot or lowes for if they had had any left. Hell, people were goin around STEALIN em off of peoples houses and takin em and sellin em. It was outrageous. Out here at our place we had no power for 12 days, some people were without for 3 weeks and were in no way prepared for it, them guys racked up some serious bad karma points. There's a big difference between them guys and you all.

ROTFL, wellll last year, I lived in Georgia.  I didn't have electric, or running water, i cooked on a grill,
used my ice cooler to keep my meats and food cool.  I had a laptop going, dialup internet since i don't have to
have electricity to have a phone, and a battery that i charged with my pickup when i drove anywhere.
i had a little ole black n white 6" tv, a radio and even a microwave if i wanted to fire up my generator that i bought
for 100 bucks. 

Boy when i got here in october last year, I think i stayed in the shower as much as possible for about a week or two!  Mmmmm
Amazing isn't it what simple things are the best things!  Long hot shower is one of lifes most wonderful pleasures!

[srkruzich]

BTW i can have a long hot shower in the dead middle of winter without electric or gas too ....
just using the sun and a black water tank.  It gets so hot you have to add cold water to it

[pam]

Lol, been there. Joe keeps sayin he's gonna build our own wind generator but never seems to get around to it We didn't have any prolems havin no power, like I said we have a wood stove for heat and cookin, a smoker and a fire pit outside, oil lamps and candles, my campin coffee pot......we were havin fun while everybody else was freakin out lol. We just set the freezer out on the porch and put everything else in a big cooler.

[Catwoman]

I went onto theoildrum.com and got to take a good look at where the oil rigs are located...both the shallow water and deep water facilities, as well as future facilities.  I was a little dismayed at how easily I was able to access this information...not a good thing when dealing with national security issues.  However, I was glad to see that the majority of facilities were not in Ike's path.  Ergo, we should see prices come back down since the facilities shouldn't have sustained that much damage, right? (I'm dying laughing as I type this, as we still haven't seen pre-Katrina prices...and it's been HOW long since that debaucle???).

[frawin]

14 Refineries are shutdown and/or have suffered considerable damage due to hurricane IKE, in addition a lot of the ports that the imported crude comes into the US to are damaged. The refineries are some of the largest refinery complexes in the US, we  could see some shortages of Gasoline and Diesel from this one.

[frawin]

This is the latest report from CNN, I am anxious to see the Bloomberg report in the morning:
Ike's aftermath: The return of $4 gas
Gas prices poised to climb towards record levels again as hurricane hits center of nation's oil refining base; Ike could also cost insurers up to $18 billion.

     
Last Updated: September 14, 2008: 12:17 PM EDT

Ike spikes gas prices

iReporters eye gas prices

More VideosSpecial Reportfull coverage

Ike's aftermath: The return of $4 gas


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Gas prices are poised to shoot back toward record highs after Hurricane Ike's direct hit to the heart of the nation's oil refineries, analysts said.

The average price of gasoline nationwide has already shot up 12 cents in the past two days to $3.795 a gallon, according to figures released by the AAA Sunday. And the average price of gas is now at or above $4 in Alaska, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and South Carolina.

In addition, Hurricane Ike could turn out to be the third-most expensive natural disaster in U.S. history, according to preliminary forecasts from a firm that does loss estimates for the insurance industry.

Experts say it's too soon to know exactly how much damage the hurricane - which slammed into Galveston, Texas, early Saturday - did to the refineries.

Some early reports suggested that the damage could be limited despite the nearly direct hit.

But the output at the refineries, which produce nearly 25% of the nation's gasoline, could still be affected if it takes weeks or months to restore full power to the region.

The uncertainty left experts projecting everything from a nationwide gasoline spike above $5 a gallon to a jump to just below the $4 mark.

Gas prices already climbing
Many consumers throughout the Southeast have already started to see sharp increases in gas prices before the storm even hit. The latest nationwide survey by AAA conducted Friday showed that prices were up nearly 6 cents a gallon to $3.733.

Some areas, particularly in the Gulf Coast and South, have been hit with a more than a 20 cent a gallon overnight increase. For example, the price of gas jumped 27 cents in Knoxville, Tenn., to $3.924.

"This is a fear factor among station owners," said Kevin Kerr, editor of Global Commodities Alert. "They're worried that they're not going to get any more supply or if they do it's going to be a lot more expensive."

Gas prices soared three years ago in the week after Hurricane Katrina slammed into New Orleans. Prices jumped 17% to a then-record high of $3.0569 due to damage to refineries and pipelines.

In a statement to CNN, the U.S. Department of Energy said it "is very concerned about the impact of gasoline prices on American families" and encouraged people to report price gouging at its Web site.

The Department of Energy added that it is ready to release crude oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve "when and where it is necessary to ensure refineries are capable of maintaining operations" and that is analyzing the amount of fuel production likely to be lost because of Hurricane Ike and Hurricane Gustav, which hit near New Orleans on Sept. 1.

Kerr said the path of Hurricane Ike was the worst possible scenario. There are about 20 refineries between Lake Charles, La., and Corpus Christi, Texas. All of them saw winds and heavy rain from the storm. Together, they can refine nearly 5 million barrels a day.

Almost half of that capacity is concentrated in the Houston-Galveston area - where the center of the storm hit. In addition to area refineries, gasoline pipelines and other key transportation infrastructure could limit the supply of gas reaching consumers.

"We could see gas go up to $6 in certain states," said Kerr. "I think the baseline will be more like $4.50, maybe even $5."

The ExxonMobil (XOM, Fortune 500) refinery in Baytown, Texas, with a daily capacity of 567,000 barrels, is the largest refinery in North America. And the eye of the hurricane passed right over it.

CNN correspondent Ali Velshi reported Saturday morning that there was no apparent damage to the outside of the refinery, despite extensive damage in Baytown.

Kevin Allexon, spokesman for ExxonMobil, said the company has not yet determined if there was damage that could further disrupt operations.

"There's still some pretty significant weather that affects how safe it is to do assessment work," he said.

Oil analyst Peter Beutel of Cameron Hanover said he's encouraged by initial reports suggesting that crucial oil facilities in the region survived without substantial damage. He's hopeful that if refineries can resume near normal operations later this week, gas prices will remain below record levels.

"Right now it looks like we took a licking and we kept on ticking, although it's still early to get full reports," he said. "As of now, I don't have reason to believe it's going to be a lasting factor. It doesn't look like you'll get to $4 nationwide, but you'll see $4 gas in a number of places," he said.

But Tom Kloza, the chief oil analyst for the Oil Price Information Service, which provides the data for the AAA survey, said he's worried about how long it will take to get full production going again.

"Even if we missed the worse of it, it's going to be a mess," he said. "U.S. refineries are really dependent on local utilities. When you hear them talking about power outages lasting for weeks, it's a worry."

The Department of Energy reported that 2.4 million customers were without power as of Saturday morning, essentially everyone in the direct path of the hurricane.

Kloza said fear of a political backlash could keep oil companies and wholesalers from raising prices as high as the market might support in the face of such a tight supply.

But he said that even if consumers are spared the full brunt of price increases, they could end up dealing with limited supplies in some markets.

"You're going to see a lot of stations in some places that don't have gasoline and you'll see some lines," he said. He's predicting nationwide gasoline prices to rise to about $4 a gallon, give or take a dime for the next month.

What's more, production at refineries along the Gulf Coast had yet to return to normal since they shutdown in preparation for Hurricane Gustav, even though the hurricane caused limited damage.

Kloza added that jet fuel, diesel and heating oil prices could sharply increase - partly because they don't get the public attention or political scrutiny that gasoline prices do.

Ike cost may only lag Katrina and Andrew
But Hurricane Ike will prove to be costly even beyond the impact on gas and other energy prices.

Catastrophe risk modeling firm AIR Worldwide Corporation said Saturday that it estimated insured losses to onshore properties would be between $8 billion and $12 billion. The firm said it expected significant wind damage to skyscrapers in Houston as well as to mobile homes and warehouses.

And Eqecat Inc., a firm that makes catastrophe estimates for the insurance industry, initially forecast insured losses from Ike at between $8 billion and $18 billion.

The low end of that estimate would make Ike the fifth most expensive storm in history after adjusting earlier storms' costs for inflation.

But the high end of that forecast would put Ike behind only Hurricanes Katrina and Andrew as the most expensive natural disasters, according to the Insurance Information Institute.

Hurricane Katrina cost insurers an inflation-adjusted $43 billion, while Hurricane Andrew, which hit South Florida in 1992, cost the industry an inflation-adjusted $22.9 billion.

First Published: September 13, 2008: 2:22 PM EDT