WHO HAS GERONIMO'S SKULL?

[pam]

Whether or not Geronimo was a vicious murderer depended on which side you were on Frank.

[frawin]

Pam, from what I have read he was a vicious man no matter what side you were on. He seemed to have no remorse about killing woman or children. I can see his attitude about adult men but somehow I have a hard time thinking of him as a hero when he killed innocent, helpless and unarmed people, women and children.

[Wilma]

Warph, if you have Geronimo's skull, then what do I have petunias in this year?

[frawin]

Wilma, you got him for sure.
Frank

[pam]

Were the soldiers that killed HIS wife and children vicious murderers? Or were they just collateral damage?

[frawin]

Valid Point Pam, I can't remember seeing that in my Indian studies over the years, but I am sure it could have happened. On the other hand it would be relevant to know what the circumstances were.

[Wilma]

Frank, I could say that because I am sure he doesn't know what I have petunias in.

[frawin]

Wilma, I saw Petunias planted somewhere in a Chamber Pot, was that you?

[pam]

Kaskiyeh Massacre

Geronimo lost his whole family in the massacre of Kaskiyeh. This is his account of the massacre from his autobiography. Apache indian history.

Source: As told by GERONIMO, Public Domain Document

In the summer of 1858, being at peace with the Mexican towns as well as with all the neighboring Indian tribes, we went south into Old Mexico to trade.

Our whole tribe (Bedonkohe Apaches) went through Sonora toward Casa Grande, our destination, but just before reaching that place we stopped at another Mexican town called by the Indians Kas-ki-yeh.

Here we stayed for several days, camping outside the city. Every day we would go into town to trade, leaving our camp under the protection of a small guard so that our arms, supplies, and women and children would not be disturbed during our absence.

Late one afternoon when returning from town we were met by a few women and children who told us that Mexican troops from some other town had attacked our camp, killed all the warriors of the guard, captured all our ponies, secured our arms, destroyed our supplies, and killed many of our women and children.

Quickly we separated, concealing ourselves as best we could until nightfall, when we assembled at our appointed place of rendezvous--a thicket by the river.

Silently we stole in one by one: sentinels were placed, and, when all were counted, I found that my aged mother, my young wife, and my three small children were among the slain.

There were no lights in camp, so without being noticed I silently turned away and stood by the river. How long I stood there I do not know, but when I saw the warriors arranging for a council I took my place.

That night I did not give my vote for or against any measure; but it was decided that as there were only eighty warriors left, and as we were without arms or supplies, and were furthermore surrounded by the Mexicans far inside their own territory, we could not hope to fight successfully.

So our chief, Mangus-Colorado, gave the order to start at once in perfect silence for our homes in Arizona, leaving the dead upon the field.

I stood until all had passed, hardly knowing what I would do. I had no weapon, nor did I hardly wish to fight, neither did I contemplate recovering the bodies of my loved ones, for that was forbidden.

I did not pray, nor did I resolve to do anything in particular, for I had no purpose left.

I finally followed the tribe silently, keeping just within hearing distance of the soft noise of the feet of the retreating Apaches.

The next morning some of the Indians killed a small amount of game and we halted long enough for the tribe to cook and eat, when the march was resumed. I had killed no game, and did not eat.

During the first march as well as while we were camped at this place I spoke to no one and no one spoke to me--there was nothing to say.

For two days and three nights we were on forced marches, stopping only for meals, then we made a camp near the Mexican border, where we rested two days.

Here I took some food and talked with the other Indians who had lost in the massacre, but none had lost as I had, for I had lost all.

Within a few days we arrived at our own settlement. There were the decorations that Alope had made--and there were the playthings of our little ones. I burned them all, even our tepee. I also burned my mother's tepee and destroyed all her property.

I was never again contented in our quiet home. True, I could visit my father's grave, but I had vowed vengeance upon the Mexican troopers who had wronged me, and whenever I came near his grave or saw anything to remind me of former happy days my heart would ache for revenge upon Mexico.

[Wilma]

No, Frank, that wasn't me.  I am just a block north of Mary.

Pam, I liked your post from Geronimo's diary.  It shows why some Indians were so unrelenting.  This also says that it was Mexicans, not Americans, that did the destruction that day.