The destructive that wants the US of A to be part of the Caliphate ?

[Ross]

I have a feeling you only read/trust anything from conservative viewpoint, and ignore anything from the center or the left.

You can bet, I don't buy the liberal left's story even if I read them.
Who has the center?
And doesn't the center just mean flip-flop?
Center to right  and center to left when ever it is handy?

I believe in a secure country and that is not left or center.

That's me through and through. A Real American Patriot. A Vietnam Veteran. A Concerned Citizen. A Registered Voter. A Taxpayer.

[Anmar]

Flip-flop is such a bullshit thing to say about someone.  Can't a person change their mind?  The conservative hero, Reagan would have been called a "flip flopper" in today's political culture.  You can say the same about Trump, but he's leading the pack.  Hell, I remember here on the forums, when I was one of a very small few who spoke out against the Iraq war, you people called me a traitor.  Now here we are and you all are saying the war was a mistake.  Guess that makes you all flip floppers too.  I'm still waiting for some apologies. 

Flip flopper was a term some politician made up to make another politician look bad.  Give me a flip flopper over an extremist any day.  When facts, evidence, and circumstances change, I want my leaders to change their minds too. 

It was Lincoln, the first republican president, who said the he always wanted to be right.  As soon as he noticed that he was on the wrong side of an issue, his goal was to change his position so quickly, that people would never know he was wrong.  Guess that makes him a flip flopper too.

[Ross]

Flip-flop is such a bullshit thing to say about someone.  Can't a person change their mind? 

The term has been in use for a very long time in politics and I quote, "In the archives of The New York Times, which go back to 1851, the earliest unequivocal mention of "flip-flop" as a change in someone's opinion, is in an October 23, 1890, report of a campaign speech in New York City."   I was not directing the term flip flop at you but at Liberals in general.

The conservative hero, Reagan would have been called a "flip flopper" in today's political culture.  You can say the same about Trump, but he's leading the pack.  Hell, I remember here on the forums, when I was one of a very small few who spoke out against the Iraq war, you people called me a traitor.  Now here we are and you all are saying the war was a mistake.  Guess that makes you all flip floppers too.  I'm still waiting for some apologies.

I wasn't on the forum at that time, I was still living in the Seattle, Wa. area.
I would not have called you a traitor over a difference of opinion. That is very strong language.
But, actually I would have agreed with you, because I was against retaliation without knowing who or what the enemy is. So I would definitely not have called you a traitor.

Flip flopper was a term some politician made up to make another politician look bad.  Give me a flip flopper over an extremist any day.  When facts, evidence, and circumstances change, I want my leaders to change their minds too. 

If they have facts --- I agree. But with today's government the truth is very difficult to come by. The truth is very elusive! I don't believe in extremisms, but I don't change my values because some group says so.

It was Lincoln, the first republican president, who said the he always wanted to be right.  As soon as he noticed that he was on the wrong side of an issue, his goal was to change his position so quickly, that people would never know he was wrong.  Guess that makes him a flip flopper too.

I'd like to read where you found that, "It was Lincoln, the first republican president, who said the he always wanted to be right."

I know, Lincoln was at odds about slavery, but he still believed the Constitution that all men are created equal. I also know, that it was the Rebels under the Rebel flag that Lincoln said, that all slaves in the rebel slaves were free. He also said according to history that blacks had the right to improve their condition in society and to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Here is a very interesting web site on that matter:
http://www.history.com/news/5-things-you-may-not-know-about-lincoln-slavery-and-emancipation

[jarhead]

"
Quote from Anmar:
Now here we are and you all are saying the war was a mistake.  Guess that makes you all flip floppers too.  I'm still waiting for some apologies.

Not so fast there, Hoss. I for one still think that scum bag, Saddam, had WMD's. Hell, we gave the lad a year to move them to Lebanon, Syria and probably Iran. Last I heard several reliable sources had seen them but for some unknown reason it was swept under the rug. Even Ambassador John Bolton said there were some taken to Bekaa Valley---and I put a hell of a lot more stock in what he says then 90% of those worms on capitol hill.
If Saddam didn't have them I bet the last thing he thought before his neck looked like a giraffe's was an old Bee Gee song," I Started a Joke "

[Ross]

FARRAKHAN:
WE MUST RISE UP AND KILL
THOSE WHO KILL US;
STALK THEM AND KILL THEM

by PAM KEY                          4 Aug 2015

Last week in Miami at Mt. Zion Baptist Church, Nation of Islam head Louis Farrakhan said he was looking for "10,000 fearless men" to "rise up and kill those who kill us; stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling!"

Farrakhan said "I'm looking for 10,000 in the midst of a million. Ten thousand fearless men who say death is sweeter than continued life under tyranny. Death is sweeter than continuing to live and bury our children while the white folks give our killers hamburgers. Death is sweeter than watching us slaughter each other to the joy of a 400-year-old enemy. Death is sweeter. The Quran teaches persecution is worse than slaughter. Then it says retaliation is prescribed in matters of the slain. Retaliation is a prescription from God to calm the breasts of those whose children have been slain. So if the federal government won't intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us; stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling!"

The official newspaper of the Nation of Islam, founded in 1979 by Minister Louis Farrakhan, "The Final Call," published the sermon excerpt as part of its "Justice Or Else" theme of the 20th anniversary of the Million Man March event set for October 10, 2015, in Washington, D.C.


http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/08/04/farrakhan-we-must-rise-up-and-kill-those-who-kill-us-stalk-them-and-kill-them/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social


Hon. Minister Farrakhan | The Nation of Islam Official Website |
www.noi.org/hon-minister-farrakhan/
Nation of Islam
The Nation of Islam under the leadership of the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is the catalyst for the growth and development of Islam in America. Founded ...

[redcliffsw]

Even Ambassador John Bolton said there were some taken to Bekaa Valley---and I put a hell of a lot more stock in what he says then 90% of those worms on capitol hill.

John Bolton is a big part of the worms on capitol hill - Lindsey Graham, John McCain et al.
And Obama too.  These guys are into the New World Order.  They're all headed in the same direction, the issue is how do we get there.  John Bolton is a neocon, certainly not a true conservative.  The joke was started long before there ever was a Saddam in Iraq.

[jarhead]

Quote from Anmar:
Now, Instead of copying and pasting someone else's opinion, lets hear what YOU don't like about the deal, not what some political hack posing as a journalist doesn't like.

I do agree with you that "the deal" was going down, with or without the USA. Does oil and greed ring a bell ? I would personally never, ever make any deal with a country that is run by habitual liars and those who cry death to America and Israel---but that's just me. The worst part of any deal is to give the scumbags a 24 days heads up before we are allowed to do an inspection---what a crock. The sad part is, if that yellar bellied Carter would have been a real CiC back in 1979 we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[redcliffsw]

About right for sure.  However, why should Israel take the perceived precedence over the uSA and our Constitution?  Nothing patriotic about that - is there? 

And why is the USA allowing immigrants unlike us into the USA?  The multi-culturalists think it's great just like the ethanol proponents use the government to force the mixture of ethanol into gasoline.  How about the wind farm business?  That's just another government mandate too.

Tyrants? 

[Ross]

ON CAPITOL HILL

GOP STARS GO GAGA
OVER DEMOCRAT
POKE OF OBAMA

'Despite endless arm-twisting and enormous political pressure from White House'
Published: 6 hours ago

Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee says he's impressed by Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and grateful for the Democrat's rejection of President Obama's Iran nuclear deal.


"Thank God for Sen. Schumer and his opposition to this reckless nuclear deal with Iran," Huckabee said in a statement. "While I disagree with Sen. Schumer on most things, I applaud him for putting peace in the Middle East above partisan politics. Despite endless arm-twisting and enormous political pressure from the White House, Sen. Schumer chose statesmanship over partisanship."

The former Arkansas governor said he hopes the decision will inspire other high-ranking Democrats to follow.

What's next? Find out in "Showdown with Nuclear Iran."

In recent weeks, two powerful Jewish Democrats in the House, Reps. Steve Israel and Nita M. Lowey, also from New York, announced their opposition to the nuclear agreement.

"Sen. Schumer's opposition to the agreement sends a signal to every pro-Israel Democrat in Washington that they don't have to 'walk the plank' for President Obama – they can stand for peace and reject this bad deal. And I pray that they will," said Huckabee.

Schumer, the likely future Democratic leader of the Senate, announced his decision to oppose the deal on Thursday.

"Advocates on both sides have strong cases for their points of view that cannot simply be dismissed," Schumer said Thursday night.

"This has made evaluating the agreement a difficult and deliberate endeavor, and after deep study, careful thought and considerable soul-searching, I have decided I must oppose the agreement and will vote yes on a motion of disapproval," he said.

"To me, the very real risk is Iran will not moderate and will, instead, use the agreement to pursue its nefarious goals is too great," added Schumer.

Congress is currently within a 60-day window for reviewing the Iran deal's intricate details, and will vote for a resolution either approving or disapproving the agreement next month.

Schumer's move hurts Obama's push for congressional approval of the deal.

Huckabee's fellow Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz,R-Texas, also praised Schumer's decision during a gathering of journalists Saturday at the RedState Gathering, a convention of conservative activists, reported CNN.

"There used to be a long tradition of Democrats who were willing to stand up and defend our national security. Sadly, that has become almost an endangered species in Congress," said Cruz. "I hope that Chuck Schumer carries through and doesn't just oppose this deal, but that he helps lead the fight to rally his fellow Democrats to stand together."


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/08/huckabee-thank-god-for-chuck-schumer%e2%80%8f/#0Oma5aVhQz2FEGFF.99

[Anmar]

Oh boy, where to start on all this crap.  First, an apology is in order. 

Ross, I'm sorry for insinuating that you were one of the people who attacked me.  I was treated poorly here because I spoke out against the war.  At the time, this forum was filled with a bunch of people who just backed up the Bush administration no matter what.  These people supported the patriot act, they supported the expansion of government, borrowing money to pay for wars, etc.  Rather than debating positions, they used personal attacks against anyone who didn't agree with them.  You were not one of those people, and I'm sorry for including you in that group.

Now, We have one of those people poking up his head here in this conversation.  Jarhead here still thinks Iraq had WMD.  Of course there is no evidence to that point.  In fact, a lot of the people who took us to war, including rumsfeld, bush, and powell, have all admitted they were wrong.  The only thing Jarhead has to say in support of his argument is that John Bolton says so.  Bolton is an idiot.  Just as Red says, he's a neocon hack, and has zero credibility.  Did Bolton go run around the desert and find some shit that nobody else knows about?  Or is it more likely that Bolton is a neocon, zionist hack who just wants to drive the U.S. to war with everyone Israel doesn't like.  Think about it.

Ross, you next quote some Farrakhan shit.  To be honest, I wasn't sure why you were posting that here, but then it hit me.  You don't know the difference between Islam, and the nation of Islam.  One is the worlds second largest abrahamic faith, the other one is a racist cult that only exists in America.  I don't want to spend a lot of energy here trying to explain the many differences, but I suggest you do some research.  Hopefully you will understand that Farrakhan is not actually a "muslim" in the same sense that people in the middle east are muslims.  I do wonder if the author knows the difference, or if he is purposefully trying to paint a picture to scare people.

Finally, I'll turn back to the Iran deal.  Last week I thought it would push through.  After Schumer came out against the deal, I'm not so sure.  Obama only needs 34 senators not to vote against the deal.  Right now he has 16-18.  He gave an interview recently that was pretty interesting.  Rather than copy and pasting, I'll just give the link.

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/11/9130371/obama-iran-deal-jewish-groups

I know I'm asking you all to read a lot, but reading a lot of material with an open mind is the best way to understand an issue. 

The most important point in this whole thing is that the world has already accepted the deal, whether congress does or not.  If congress fails to ratify the deal, America has three options:  do nothing, sanctions, war.  Doing nothing and sanctions have the same effect.  The rest of the world is now open for business with Iran.  The deal will go on without us.  We would lose any right we had to participate in the inspections.  In fact, without us, the world may just give up on inspections all together and allow Iran to get nukes.  Do you really think that Russia cares if Iran has nukes?  They'd probably love to sell Iran some nukes.  The only thing stopping that from happening today is American participation.

The third possibility is War.  After 13 years in Iraq and 14 in Afghanistan, we are still in those countries fighting and the situation in each is much worse than when we started.  On top of that, we still haven't even paid for 1/3 of what we spent in those wars.  Iran is much larger.  Iraq has about 25 million people, Iran has 80 million.  Iraq had soviet era weaponry, the taliban and isis have rifles and IED's.  Iran has modern weaponry, drones, anti-airecraft missiles, and their own munitions manufacturing plants.  We can't beat the Taliban living in caves, or the Iraq insurgents hiding in the open, how are we going to win a war in Iran?  Even if we do win, what happens next?  Do we leave and let some new muslim extremist take over, like what happened in Iraq?

Lets get real about this, we need this deal.