Doesn't Make Sense!

[Bullwinkle]

        If having actually built several schools makes me a "closet intellectual" then , I confess. Some making input obviously have no knowledge of local codes, inspection, required material, or anything else. Permits are pulled by the general contractor and inspectors meet and sign off with each subcontractor as well as the job superintendent. Walk-throughs are done periodically by the board members with the architect and general contractor. Weekly safety and progress meetings are attended by the foremen from all trades. OSHA is invited to inspect work in progress and make reccomendations before there are safety issues. No suprise visits. Before the job is complete, the architect makes a punch list to correct any issues. The fire department also does an inspection, both of the blueprints before construction and as work progresses.

     Bathrooms with an alcove entry? I guess the Wal-mart architects stole that one from you. No designation as to sex? I bet that causes a few suprises.  Bull nose block on corners, standard procedure, even on window openings. There is a miniscule amount of wood used. It is a fire consideration and is not durable, nor tornado resistant. Wood is expensive here as well. If you have trouble with kids tearing up your building, wood is definitely not the correct choice. A masonry building is cheapest in the long run, low maintenance. Most hall ways they use burnished block, doesn't require paint. Haydite block are used behind the lockers, cheaper. Designated hallways or rooms are fully grouted and reinforced with concrete caps for tornado shelter. It sounds like to me, your local architects and/or contractors aren't up to speed. Not with what is required here. As far as input from anyone else, that happens with the school board before the plans are given the go ahead. After that it is a change order and will cost you. The subcontractors bid the job by the prints they are handed at the start. If they don't charge for a change, they lose money, unless you are eliminating something. And even then, good luck getting them to take less money. Chew on that , master builder of three schools. I know, that wasn't neccesary.

[Bullwinkle]

      One more thing. Architects win awards for designing on budget, functional, and durable buildings. Not just for asthetics. Good luck getting one for yourself from a credible source.

[Bullwinkle]

        I don't mind having my money invested in education in any way.

       It appears some grades have had a small explosion in attendance. To build in response to that is fine with me, but will it be needed in the future? As I said previously, a practice gym , or multi-purpose room to solve the overflow, perhaps 4-6 classrooms and bathrooms included in the expansion. One good thing to consider, design with expansion in mind. May be needed , maybe not.

       I would rather see more money spent to gain quality teachers and retain them. You can have the greatest facility money can buy and not be giving the kids what they need most. Qualified, caring teachers.

       Hey Cat, how about coming back and teach our kids?

[Bullwinkle]

        Varmit, to get back to how this started, we had a bond issue fail, to expand the facilities. It was a bit backwards as to what should have happened. The consolidation should have come before, so that the people could see the need to streamline our school system. Then, you plan facility expansion to accomidate the result and put it before the people. Not the reverse.

        Part of the problem has been the reluctance of the people to consolidate. No one wants their hometown school to disappear. But isn't more important to provide our kids with the best we can as efficiently as possible?

[Catwoman]

       Hey Cat, how about coming back and teach our kids?

I treasured the years I spent in Elk County.  When I left, I felt like I had left my job unfinished due to the fact that in a bunch of families, I had taught all of the kids except the very youngest siblings...lol...Made me feel guilty for having made the decision to move my family.  I still follow a bunch of my former students closely.  It gives me great, great joy to see how all of them have gone forward, being gainfully employed, achieving, stellar individuals! 

[Catwoman]

By the way...You are absolutely correct about some on the advisory committees not knowing their way through the building codes and practices.  Most don't.  That is where patience is called for on the part of the professionals involved.  Unfortunately, the world of education isn't quite like the rest of the civilian world...There are more cooks than there is counter space when it comes to getting a physical plant constructed. 

[Bullwinkle]

       Thanks Cat. For the sentiment and knowledge.

[Diane Amberg]

Cat, that is exactly why we were hired. That was Al's professional history after all. The artificial stucco (Drive it) on the outside is holding up very well and we don't miss the block hallways. Standard construction has worked out fine. We have hurricane and 24 inch roof snow standards, but don't have to worry much about tornadoes, thank goodness. We get them, but they aren't those huge things you get.
  Right now Al is signing off on the latest round of invoices so the guys can get paid.  The board is very happy with the arrangement. Fortunately, they know that they don't know.
Hey Bull ,nothing wrong with the way you do things. We are just able to do it cheaper and that is important because we have to raise our own building funds. Being a charter school there is no tax money for that. We came in several million cheaper than a recently built similar regular public school.
  As far as no men's rooms, I was talking about the adults ,not the kids. and the adult rest rooms do have doors!
Our fire company doesn't do the fire inspections ,the city fire marshal does that.
Then we had the one firm that knew about what we could spend ,gave us a beautiful, lavish  preliminary drawing that wasn't even remotely close to what we could afford...and another who bid and then pulled out because he decided his company was too small to do the job. Now we have a good match and things are really going well.
Oh, as an example of the things we do. We had specified wall mounted lavatory basins and toilets for cleaning ease, but that wasn't what would have been ordered if Al and I hadn't caught it.   Al also came up with a $90,000.00 savings on an elevator by checking into the code requirement. It's that kind of thing that we do.
Newark Charter is a Blue Ribbon School so they must be doing something right.  Yes, I am bragging.
It's the parents that begged for a  Jr. Sr. high school and we are hopeful it will be as successful as the elementary and middle schools are now.
I the meantime, good luck with your project. I hope it eventually works out somehow.

[Oldtimer]

I was on a committee of teachers, staff, adminstration, school board, and community members when the consolidation to one campus happened a few years.  We had the complete blueprint of the entire facility and we did just as you are talking about.  We visually moved rooms around, combined offices that could be and looked at every room and closet (I am not kidding about the closets).  With everyone working together we came up with roughly what is being used now.  One of the larger closets was, at that time, being used by a tutor and student.  Is this good enough for our children?  Is this fair to them?  To expect them to learn to be productive members of society when we are putting them in a closet to learn (metaphor only and exaggeration).  The current high school rooms are absolutely not big enough to put a wall down to "create" 2 classrooms.  They are a comfortable size for the high school class sizes now and the building was never built to hold 600 kids.  (Maybe if you have the gymnasium full for a sporting event but not actively learning students areas) Yes, you could build a covered, closed in walkway between the modulars and the main building but that still doesnt fix the overcrowding inside.  The junior high kids who are not in sports have to have PE in the cafeteria or the weight room because the gym for sports practice last hour of the day. 

Ross, read this, the school was never designed for 600 students. You just embellish and makeup whatever you want to try to cause problems.

[flintauqua]

Ross, read this, the school was never designed for 600 students. You just embellish and makeup whatever you want to try to cause problems.

Oldtimer - Haven't you figured out that in Ross' world second or third hand hearsay trumps first hand factual knowledge!  Like I've said many times before - when factual information is presented that does not fit Ross' preconceived notion of things, he just pretends it wasn't presented, or twists it into something that fits his closed-minded viewpoint.