Uncelebrating the Fourth of July . . .

redcliffsw · July 04, 2012, 06:29:35 PM

It was truly unique – the first nation in all of history in which the individual was considered more important than the government, and the government was tied down by a written Constitution.
-Harry Browne

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/07/04/uncelebrating-the-fourth-of-july/

Warph · July 05, 2012, 01:11:04 AM

Quote from: redcliffsw on July 04, 2012, 06:29:35 PM
It was truly unique – the first nation in all of history in which the individual was considered more important than the government, and the government was tied down by a written Constitution.
-Harry Browne

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/07/04/uncelebrating-the-fourth-of-july/

Hmmmm... one of the comments on "Uncelebrating the Fourth of July" was:
I love Harry Browne (R.I.P.) but the one thing I disagreed with him on was that freedoms *were gone*.
We still have them!

How about this one:

Declaration of Independence

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.

To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its

Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

srkruzich · July 05, 2012, 06:16:50 AM

Well its like this Warph. Freedoms lost? Uhm didn't our forefathers write in the declaration that our freedoms are granted BY God not man? IF so then who is man to take away what God has given. I would place my bet on God.. God did more than grant us Freedom. He gave us the ability, the strength, the desire, the drive, the intellegence to know when and where to exercise our right to put down those who would attempt to usurp what God has given us.
Furthermore, if God is for us who can be against us? I'll have to say, God has done a pretty good job of whacking Israels enemies hasn't he? They are still a sovereign nation chosen by God in the midst of their enemies. I believe all it takes is a small group of people dedicated to uphold what is dear to them and righteous before God. I don't know how many jews are in this world, or in the nation of israel but i'll tell ya this much that i know. For thousands of years, They have been a small nation, always going against greater odds in manpower force and weapons. AND they have always prevailed even when God punished them, they prevailed in the end. The same thing goes for America which is the only other nation besides Israel that has a Covenant nation with God in this world.

Warph · July 05, 2012, 07:39:53 AM

Quote from: srkruzich on July 05, 2012, 06:16:50 AM
Well its like this Warph. Freedoms lost?

Are you addressing me or Red's article? I don't get your drift.

srkruzich · July 05, 2012, 08:05:03 AM

Both i think,

the constitution and declaration are just a written recognition of what God gave every man. Among it is Individuality as reds post indicated.

Bullwinkle · July 05, 2012, 08:14:31 AM

They specifically did not use God, but Creator in their wording, so they did not alienate those who believe in different names for the Supreme Being. HE created all life, the entire world population. It is pretentious to think the creator places anyone or any country above another.

srkruzich · July 08, 2012, 10:50:41 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 05, 2012, 08:14:31 AM
They specifically did not use God, but Creator in their wording, so they did not alienate those who believe in different names for the Supreme Being. HE created all life, the entire world population. It is pretentious to think the creator places anyone or any country above another.

And who would they be alienating? The country was founded by christian men. Not like there was a issue at the time with buddist, islam or any other non-christian belief system. The creator is attributed to only 1 God and that is the God of the judeo/christians.

Diane Amberg · July 08, 2012, 12:31:47 PM

Go back and read the books about The Enlightenment and The Great Awakening that drove the religious feelings of most colonists. It was very different then. The Jews were here as well as the American Indians, Unitarians, Anglicans, Catholics and many others, whose versions of " religion" were very different from each other and in some cases very intolerant of each other. Some states even tried to pass laws as to which church would be dominate and what church people would attend.Some even tried to have taxes passed to support their church.
PA was an exception because of it's tolerant Quaker beginnings and MD was established as a safe haven for Catholics.
Religion, or lack of it, was purposefully not an issue for the founders. Faith was important to some, but the kind was not an issue with the signers.They were much more interested in the total separation of church and state.
The founding fathers were some confirmed Christians, and many non confirmed Deists who went to church for their own reasons, but never were confirmed as Christians or engaged in any of the sacraments or religious rituals.
Much misinformation is given especially about George Washington. (Ranks right up there with the cherry tree and wooden teeth.)
Read What God Hath Wrought by Daniel Walker Howe and Faith of the Fathers by David Holmes. They have interesting and much deeper information on the subject, not just a few quotes out of context by Christian Revisionists to support their own views.
Why am I speaking up? Because it all took place here and I've been to most of the historical hot spots of the 13 original colonies, Washington and VA and heard the docents speak at historical homes, been to the grave yards and churches and museums that have much more complete information and have seen the original documents and been able to ask questions. It least when one is there, the information is not limited to little sound bites surrounded by commericals.

srkruzich · July 09, 2012, 11:17:31 AM

ahh but the very religions you pointed out had one thing in common. They all recognize the same God.

So therefore Creator would be that God.

TRy going to wallbuilders.com. They have original documents pertaining to that period in time of all the individuals who had a hand in forming our government. There were 41 confirmed christians if i remember right that signed the declaration.

Also you will find personal testimonies of folkslike Jefferson madison ect. THey all claimed christ. So that dispels the myth that they were diest or athiest like some say jefferson was.

Bullwinkle · July 09, 2012, 11:59:57 AM

Ahh but. The native american indians ? Recognizing the same god ?

Don't think so. Therefore the Creator was the name used, not God. There were atheists in the group as well. Iv'e run into southern babtists like you, everyone except those in their church are going to hell. That would eliminate a huge part of the world population from the rewards for living a life that follows the same principles of the Christian ten commandments. I don't think the Supreme Being is going to pick one religious following over any other, and neither did the founding fathers. The slaves your ancestors imported weren't originally Christian either and even when they were endoctrinated by southern churches weren't allowed to attend those churches, they formed their own. Too many people came here with an agenda to "convert" all the "heathens" who didn't practice their religious beliefs. The founding fathers did not want any such practices to be any part of the direction of the populous.