ELK KONNECT & VOLUNTEERS KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK

[Diane Amberg]

So you don't think I've been to Tucumcari? Why? I've also been to White Sands and Truth or Consequences, Alamogordo, Las Cruces, Mescalero, The Apache Reservation, Ruidoso, beautiful Cloud Croft and many others also. Until we visited I hadn't known that White Sands wasn't really beach sand. Why would I be making it up?

[Diane Amberg]

Ross, I can't possibly answer all your tedious questions, so I'll turn most of them over to others. Distraction? For what purpose?
As far as my question about the sherrif being at that first meeting, someone, I don't recall who, said he was there after hours, that's why I wondered how he had been paid or whether he was there on his own time,  just for interest.
  You do know of course that tigers have stripes, not spots.

   Patriot, if you run for office, and I think we've already seen your platform, you will soon be full of hot air too. It's a requirement ya know. Yuk,yuk.


Thanks Mom 70x7

[Patriot]

Patriot, if you run for office, and I think we've already seen your platform, you will soon be full of hot air too. It's a requirement ya know.

A.  I'm not sure anybody has seen anything yet.
B.  Hot air is only a requirement for Demoncrats & so-called moderates, because the heat is needed to bend things.  If one isn't bending anything, there's no need for heat.

Yuk,yuk.

C.  He who laughs last, laughs best.

[Ross]

You do know of course that tigers have stripes, not spots.

That was the whole point of that particular post.
Meaning I don't know where you are coming from.

See right here.

Diane, I don't mean this ugly or disrespectful, but what are you?
Where do you come from with your ideas?
Are you hired by Elk Konnected, LLC as a volunteer to put out all of these mis-directions?
Really, are you just playing some kind of a game of distraction?
Or do you really fail to comprehend what is said to you?

[Diane Amberg]

Why do I have to be coming from anywhere? How could I be "hired"by anyone and then be a volunteer? Vollies aren't paid.
  I'm not a what, I'm a who, and a very independent thinker who tries to see both sides of issues if there are controversies. I don't make decisions, especially about wrong doing, without proof.
There have been comments made by several of you as to stealing money...but avoiding the word "stealing"in most cases. Theft,  lining their pockets at taxpayer expense,#160, pocketing the extra money #93 and other similar statements I will hunt up if you insist. You asked if what they are doing is illegal. Ok, I'll ask you. Is pocketing extra money illegal? If you have proof then yes, it's illegal.
  Remember, it's not what you think you know but what you can prove. In politics many things can be done that might appear to be in bad taste but are legal. Shouldn't you just suck it up and be done with all the accusations?   
Is it an "I want blue and they want green" situation? You four don't want tax money spent in certain ways. What do other people want? Are they being fairly represented here on the forum?
  So far anyone with an apposing view who dared to speak up has been verbally attacked and insulted. You won't even let them speak from behind screen names without trying to figure out who they might really be so you can take them on, yet you use screen names yourselves because you can. How is that right?
I didn't break this up into little purple boxes, so I'm sure I'll be rudely called on it by one smart alec snot or another.   

[Ross]

Why do I have to be coming from anywhere? How could I be "hired"by anyone and then be a volunteer? Vollies aren't paid.
   I'm not a what, I'm a who, and a very independent thinker who tries to see both sides of issues if there are controversies. I don't make decisions, especially about wrong doing, without proof.

So, why all the diversions about what goes on in your county? You just can't compare apples and oranges.

Ethic's, Principals, Honorable Actions, Integrity those are the main issues.

This is not the 1950's where volunteering was done without compensation of one form or another.
Today is different: This is only to show that volunteers can and do get paid.

http://www.washingtontwp.org/fire-ems/part-paid-volunteers
I repeat, I am not comparing towns and states, simply showing volunteers can and do get paid.
Today's volunteers at the Washington Township Fire Department actually receive a paycheck for the time they invest in the community. Volunteers are paid for each call they respond to, Centerville, OH  
http://www.washingtontwp.org/uploads/Volunteer.pdf

My son (13yo at the time) this last summer was going door to door mowing lawns and at one house the lady needed her lawn mowed but said she had no money. He said I'll mow your lawn no charge, and that was exactly what he did. He Voluntarily mowed the lawn without some organization telling him to do it, he made the decision on his own. True volunteering don't you see. Oh, he was compensated for his perspiration with a glass of ice water, which was really nice of the lady. And I am super proud of him for his action.

But just to show how words have gotten twisted and their meanings changed by adding to or subtracting from them, check this out.

Yes,  Diane there are paid volunteers and there are volunteers that pay to volunteer. You can do a google search for "paid volunteers" and you can also check out www.volunteermatch.org and type in "paid" or "internship" in the advanced keyword search. Even Elk Konnected, LLC said they, paid their volunteers last summer to work the Summer day Camp.

You say you make decisions based on both sides of the issue, well the issues have nothing to do with where you live. Yet, you try to compare this predominately rural farm area in Kansas of only 2880 people with your east coast area of how many 10's of thousands of people, where you probably have a shopping mall or two and major employers and I have read there are 2 prisons there, that are capable of holding a total of 5000 people, more people then the total of the population in Elk County. We don't even have a Wal-Mart in Elk County and they are almost everywhere.

There have been comments made by several of you as to stealing money...but avoiding the word "stealing"in most cases. Theft,  lining their pockets at taxpayer expense,#160, pocketing the extra money #93 and other similar statements I will hunt up if you insist. You asked if what they are doing is illegal. Ok, I'll ask you. Is pocketing extra money illegal? If you have proof then yes, it's illegal.

Where is the documentation of the County monies, is what I have politely asked. Where are the reciepts. Where is the transparency? Who is accountable? Is it wrong to ask polite questions, I don't think so?

Ethic's, Principals, Honorable Actions, Integrity these are the main issues. Are they illegal activities, I don't think so but are they actions and attitudes that can be questionable, IMHO you bet. Should they be questioned? I think so, when they involve the County Government and the School Government. Elk Konnected, LLC has their self proclaimed founding member Konnected Kounty Kommissioner  working for them and one other Konnected Kommissioner working for them in the way of voting to provide this privately owned company with money from the county taxpayers coffers. It only takes 2 out of 3 commissioners to vote to do this. Wouldn't it be an Ethical and Principled as well as an Honorable Action and a show of Integrity for these two Konnected Kommissioners to recuse themselves when an issue of  taxpayers money to line their organization wallet, comes up?

 Remember, it's not what you think you know but what you can prove. In politics many things can be done that might appear to be in bad taste but are legal. Shouldn't you just suck it up and be done with all the accusations?  

You talk about bad taste as if it is something acceptable to you, well that fine with me if you find it acceptable. I sure hope you didn't teach that in school.

But I do believe that most people do not find it acceptable. In bad taste, concerning Ethic's, Principals, Honorable Actions, Integrity is something that should never be acceptable. That IMHO is what is wrong with our great country.

Is it an "I want blue and they want green" situation? You four don't want tax money spent in certain ways. What do other people want? Are they being fairly represented here on the forum?

You are right Diane, the majority of the county won't speak up because, maybe an uncle or aunt or daddy works for one of these respectable, upstanding citizens (as they have been called by followers), because their uncle or aunt or daddy may get fired or laid off because of something they say. That's the real essence of real politics, IMHO.

So what kind of fairness are you really talking about. The fairness of being placed in a circle of chairs by a privately owned company and being told what to think about and what to talk about and peer group pressure to insure you are compliant. I Personally am fortunate enough not be able to be controlled that way, however, if you remember, I was threatened with the possibility of a lawsuit right here on the forum. And that didn't work either.

 So far anyone with an apposing view who dared to speak up has been verbally attacked and insulted. You won't even let them speak from behind screen names without trying to figure out who they might really be so you can take them on, yet you use screen names yourselves because you can. How is that right?

If you go back and take a look at the original thread I believe, you will find the threats and name calling and such started with the followers. And from this side of the wall that was built by the followers, there has never been any threats.

I don't use a screen name. I don't really care who is behind a screen name, I probably don't know them personally anyway. This is not personal on my part, it's politics, plain and simple. The followers as they are called by Elk Konnected, LLC are not individual's that are the subject here, it is Elk Konnected, LLC a privately owned company that appears to be entangled in our County and School Governments.

I didn't break this up into little purple boxes, so I'm sure I'll be rudely called on it by one smart alec snot or another.  

No Diane, you will not be rudely called on for not breaking your post down into little purple boxes. You like everyone else, has the privilege of posting the way you want, based on the guide lines of the Forum Owners.

I choose to break the post down for clarity in communicating.

But you see, there is that bullying and name calling, you so often talk about other people doing, throwing out "Smart Alec Snot", (a grade school child's remark) that's not nice at all. As a retired teacher, I would have thought better of you than that! You have stated in a previous post, telling someone, that a Bully doesn't recognize the bullying tactics. I would appreciate it if you would review that for yourself.

I hope you have a great weekend.

[Diane Amberg]

Ross, I have to disagree. In the fire service true volunteers are not paid. "Combination" companies, (ours has finally had to become one due to area growth over the years) have" paid on call" or some paid full time staff along with their volunteers. They are called career staff and are never called vollies. You are preaching to the choir here. That article was poorly written.IMHO
  Our unpaid people far outnumber the paid folks. I am a volunteer. Al and I have never been paid for anything we ever did, or now do at the fire house. I run a $150,000 fire fund drive for free. It's my pleasure to do so.  Whoops! I lied ..I get as much free coffee as I can drink.
  All our officer cadre are volunteers, no pay ever, from the Chief on down.
  We are still listed as a volunteer company, even with some paid staff, especially with the ambulance service part. One can't service 8,000+ emergency calls a year here with just vollies.
    People who are paid cannot be called volunteers.  The people who are paid for part of their time are not called volunteers for that part of their day.That's called "paid on call" or "part time employees" depending on the set up. I won't bother you with the details.  If you think I'm wrong, look up the definition of volunteer.
  Your camp folks who were paid hourly or salaried were not " volunteers."  Someone may have called their pay an honorarium or some such to change the classification, I don't know. Perhaps they turned in expenses for reimbursement, but one cannot make a profit and be called a volunteer.  Was there a combination of paid and volunteer camp counselors?
  Our Safety Town day camp is like that. The main "counselor' who is in charge every day for two weeks, supervises everyone else, does the lesson plans, arranges for trips and volunteer speakers, and keeps thing running smoothly, is a kindergarten teacher who is hired by Newark Parks and Rec. The rest are all volunteers. No pay. Mc D's provides free snacks for everyone at camp. Many are teenage counselors, one for about every 8 kids. It's not free, parents pay for their kids to go.
   Internships are a whole other thing, so are apprenticeships.  A volunteer army is different too.They are paid of course, but were not drafted. 
   Why do I sometimes write about things here? Because some there do enjoy hearing about it, and have told me so. I'm sorry you don't. But then you voluntarily read it. At least I don't think you are paid to do it.

I like hearing about what is going on out there because I've been there often enough to know where things are and who people are. That is an advantage for me. I also enjoy hearing about the trips people take, their gardens ,the wine people are making ,successful fishing, tall tales, jokes, the bull being thrown in fun, and so on. I love the photos and posts about long ago. I'm a very sociable person, when I'm allowed to be and don't have to defend myself from the personally and unnecessarily rude and crude people. That stuff never adds to anything and makes the writer look bad.IMHO.
  Why would you think my writing is for some kind of political diversion? I don't know how that would work. You said my vote doesn't count.
   I think our readers can tell the differences between here and there without have to be told! Except for the number of people the issues are very similar, the money numbers here are just bigger.  You think we don't have road problems? Think again! We get flooded roads when the roadside ditches aren't properly maintained etc. Every spring we get pot holes big enough to swallow a motorcycle and deeply eroded road edges on some paved, but very narrow country roads. Ya drop a wheel off that and its game over.
   People here don't agree on how taxes should be spent either. Some people get a real reputation for being a nuisance. (Fritz) They try to stop anything and everything, in some cases to the county's regret.
   A few years ago several people lost their homes due to terrible flooding because some county ditches and flood gates weren't maintained. The money allocated for that was shifted to another budget line. Big mistake. A tropical storm sent the rain, but the county had to buy those properties.
We can and do have some serious traffic problems that you don't have. But "country" is only a few minutes away up the road from me, just as busier traffic isn't that far away from you. When the University is in session, I have to add an extra 10 minutes to wherever I'm going if it's on the other side of town. Fortunately I don't have to do that too often.
   I know where that Walmart is in Independence, I've been in it. We didn't have one in New Castle County either until just a very few years ago when they moved into a defunct Gaylords store. The next closest is in Maryland.
.
As far as documentation of county expenses.... Isn't there a financial report available?  Here there is a financial report available on line for that transparency you talk about, and audits when scheduled. You all don't have that? ( Why would they ever pass the receipts around for inspection by the audience? How long would those meetings be?  )
    I know what real dirty politics looks like.  A few year ago a past county police chief here ran successfully for County Executive. As a political deal the FOP said they would back him if he took the current police chief with him to get her off their backs.  He did and she was promptly made his CEO. BIG Bucks!. They pulled all kinds of shenanigans, including violating the hatch act using police officers to do political work, promoting existing county employees up to ridiculous salaries for positions they weren't qualified for, created new ones for their friends and more. You wouldn't believe how many "Administrative Assistants" they had...bought and paid for for their  loyalty.
  My one girl friend was given a raise, but then was politely "asked" to donate that same amount to their campaign fund! Of course it was done verbally, nothing in writing.The employees were "asked" to donate their time to the annual weekend Easter Egg Hunt and the annual county Ice Cream Social.  All county employees were also expected to volunteer to work hours at the County Fair they tried for a few years, That was a real hardship for some of the single parents who had to hire someone to watch their kids while they did forced slave labor at the county displays they were expected to create and populate at the fair. BUT the county police were paid to be there.The NCC Paramedics were expected to volunteer their time!  And don't try to get out of it. You will never ever be considered for a  raise or promotion because you aren't a "team player." Nice huh? Ya wanna talk about unethical ? They wrote the book on it. Some hourly people were expected to work as many hours as the super called for but never write in more than 40!   
    The President of Council tried to do something about it for quite awhile and was eventually successful. They finally found enough evidence to prosecute.  She took most of the fall for their crimes, as well she should have.The only reason I mention it is because he's back now and wants to take a run at being elected County Executive again! I'm very worried. 
   By not having a County Executive and a Council President and a bigger  council you don't have the benefit of those checks and balances. I can see how it would be harder there.   
As far as asking "polite" questions at your council meetings, EK meetings and such, I think there might be a real miscommunication with the word polite. What you are saying may not be what they are hearing.

  Bad taste? from me? Please don't  put words in my mouth. It was a general statement about politics and that is all. No names were used. If others can use that excuse so can I. Ya talk about twisting words around!  "As if it is acceptable to you,"  There was nothing I said that could cause you to come to that as legitimate conclusion. Wanting it to be doesn't make it so. Then a dig about my teaching... again?   That was was an intentional cut...again... and added nothing. Are you really like that at heart? EEEK. Perhaps I should put my rude horns back on. I sure didn't have to wait long to be swiped at again,did I. Is it fun making cutting remarks to me? Why?  Someone recently told me they would never have the patience to put up with the personal nonsense ,especially from two of you.I told that person it was the teacher in me that makes me normally very patient and that I've seen kids show off for each other in exactly the same way. But they are incomplete organisms. There must be points given that I don't know about, right? You can trade them in for something at a store, right? 
 
  You few make all kinds of excuses for how you word things .."telling it like it is" ''the truth" and all that. (I'm not sure how that excuses personal insults.)  Except, it is so often just your (plural) version of how you THINK things are.  It can easily be disputed by others, who are them immediately attacked for having a different opinion.  You really can't see that? You keep saying it's just your opinion, but then don't seem to try to ever see anyone else's opinion as being legitimate. You(plural) just cast it aside or some will even mock it and make sport of it.  What happened to our freedom of speech, HMMM? No polite listeners?

    Why did the EK seating arrangement and agenda get to you so badly? It saves a lot of time when it's to be a structured meeting for a specific reason, to let people know what the subject matter is to be. Would you have felt better about it if the agenda and seating had been advertized somehow?  Peer pressure? How? I had already explained the circle seating. I rather suspect Public Squares uses that same "formula" at all their introductory public meetings for consistency and time predictability. I did something similar when I was teaching several EMT classes in the same subject for several different sessions .It kept me on track and assured they all got the same information in the same allotted three hour time frame.That takes practice!
   So EK became a "private" organization. Why does that bother you? It was recommended that they do it for the liability of the group. They aren't rich folks and some people can be suit happy. You seem to have to come to your own conclusions as to why the LCC part was done, but is it factual information or your personal opinion? I'm sure the county allocates money to other private companies when it's something they can't do themselves...like the expensive new court house roof. That caused a few tongues to wag too..or so I heard.
  I really do understand your having a problem with possible conflict of interest. But... there has to be proof of personal, or monetary gain, right?  What would that be? Your county lawyer would have addressed that if there was a problem, back when EK started, wouldn't he?
   We see that here too and that's what the lawyer says if it's not a real issue but a perceived one. NCC even has an Ethics Board to handle such inquires. Perhaps you should there too.  Most people don't understand the real legal definitions of conflict of interest and there are many.
  Every year Al had to "declare" that his sister had a real estate license and worked in NCC. That's also why we live where we do in Newark  proper. No chance of conflict or perceived conflict with the county. We never even bought extra land in the county either.and yet Al had to some how live in NNC as a job requirement. It's been dropped finally,long after he retired but we couldn't even buy my parents place or move in there to help them as they aged without his having to give up his job.
    That's one problem with having so few people there and even fewer who have "get things done" personalities. You just don't have the critical mass. Personal displeasure and gripes can be easy, can't they?If people can be fired for their personal opinions,well that's sure no endorsement for living there, is it?
   You say of the three people on council ,two are EK supporters. I would be interested in knowing if the third person votes with the other two making a unanimous vote when EK issues arise, or whether he is always a no vote, making it two to one. That would say a lot.
You say Ross isn't a screen name? You really have only one name ? No, I didn't see any law suit threats to you on here. If I go back on some thread ,I don't know which one, I would really question who struck first with the rude and insulting talk.  Some time I'll go see for myself. By the way, as far as the purple boxes, you weren't the rude snot I had in mind.
Yes, I've chatted and rambled and jumped around as I've thought of things. I should be able to when it suits me.  We'll see. I suspect you've fed those Delaware chickens by now. It's getting dark here and too chilly .Have a peaceful evening. We'll bicker again some other time.

[readyaimduck]

You say of the three people on council ,two are EK supporters. I would be interested in knowing if the third person votes with the other two making a unanimous vote when EK issues arise, or whether he is always a no vote, making it two to one. That would say a lot.

Sorry for the purple box Diane  lol

You see, that is one of the main issues.  If there is a 3 man team, and 1 or 2 are ELK  Konnected supporter and admittedly so, it would only seem ethical for one or both  to recluse oneself from the vote to allocate monies to said Elk Konnected.
That is just plaine and simple eithics.

Loved your rant, and Ready...to read the rest.

[readyaimduck]

Okay Diane, I read it all.   (And to think I  was a rambler )
I truly respect what you wrote....you wrote that from experience and from the gut.

I am not so sure that the County DA sees things here as he/she see things in your county.
It is so laid back that Policies and Procedures get thrown into the ditch that isn't graded correctly because of lack of funds. 
It isn't until the squeaky wheel gets greased, that the wagon rolls onward...and this is an election year...hmmmmm
And then, the junk in the trunk of progression becomes our new best friend. 

ready to .....

[oldfart]

Diane glad you volunteer  where you live but you dont have to tell us everyday.all of you need to step back and regroup ,  wont change athing around this county If you are in the clickyou get special treatment in this county Rodney King said it best CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG .NO I THINK NOT.