Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[Ross]

Really an oil boom, more money in the Pratt area?
Niw, that is a good thing maybe, for their Econimcs right?
With all the Federal, State, County and City governments regulating everything for the voter and taxpayers
wouldn't you think that would be enough regulation?

Oh, but really who would  take control?

Perhaps a steering committee, does that sound familiar?
Does that sound a little bit familiar?

I wonder if there might be a relationship of some sort to Elk County?
Oh, windfarm and more money, is that a possible connection?
Why do organizations like these refuse to answer questions?
Why do they call it negative and vile if you question their ethics?
You decide.

Why do you suppose the Pratt County Commissioners decided they did not want to participate if it is a good thing? (the last line of the article)

Do you suppose perhaps because it curcumvents their authority they were elceted to carry out?

Here is the news paper article I am speaking of.

Oil boom panel sought
By J.W. Keene
The Pratt Tribune Posted Feb 17, 2012 @ 01:00 PM

Pratt, Kan. —
A regional planning conversation By who? about the potential oil activity in area communities was held Feb. 3 at the Kiowa Community Center. Seventy-three individuals were in attendance. By what privately operated company (LLC)?

The group What group? had already received a sample proposal regarding preliminary efforts, from Design Studios West/Community Solutions, which indicated someone was previously working on the proposal. Carol Meyer, Kansas Department of Commerce, Rural Development Division, facilitated part of the meeting. A show of hands indicated a majority of attendees thought there was a need for some regional planning, according to a meeting summary.

The following questions were discussed during a breakout session:
• Please identify one of the worst things that could happen during a potential oil boom. Answers included: Oil bust, crime, depleted resources, stuck with long term debt, deteriorate infrastructure, and impact on quality of life and the environment.
• Please identify one of the best things that could happen during an oil boom. Answers included: Improve infrastructure, increase tax base, revenue growth, and ability to control the exit strategy.

Barber County, Medicine Lodge, and the city of Kiowa will continue to serve as facilitators until an "Oil Boom" steering committee is formed. The panel would be formed with a representative from six counties and eight cities, which are proposed as the nucleus of the organization, said Tina A. Davis, director Barber County Development.
The jurisdictions proposed for membership in the group includes: Barber, Harper, Pratt, Sumner, and Kingman counties (Kan.), and Woods County (Okla.) and the cities of Wellington, Pratt, Medicine Lodge, Anthony, Kiowa, Kingman, Cunningham in Kansas, and Alva in Oklahoma. In an effort at equitable representation, only the two largest cities from each county will be considered for the initial steering committee.

Once this committee is established, email questions for consideration, such as how to handle other jurisdictions not present at the initial meeting and whether, or not, the committee needs professional planning assistance to guide this discussion will be sent to members.

Davis is asking those invited to participate to respond as soon as possible with their appointment, or to indicate if they plan not to participate. Pratt County Commissioners decided they did not want to participate.

http://www.pratttribune.com/news/x740674319/Oil-boom-panel-sought

Something to think about, isn't it?
Really the questions should be
    Who is doing this?
    What are they relly doing?
    Why are the doing this?
    When is answered , that is now?
    Why? Aren't they able to work within the system of government?
    Is it they don't trust their local elected official to listen to them?
    Or is it just that they want to have control and supercede the local governments?

Lot's more questions, I would like see be answered about organizations of this sort, wouldn't you?
Isn't that he same thing that has happened here in Elk County?
A windfarm and lot's of money and an organization?
What happens if the money never materialize's?

What happens if the Kansas State Governor decides to put a state property tax on all the wind farms?

Where will the money be?

Shouldn't our County Commissioners be operating on the chance the money may never materialize? Untill they get the money?

Does making property tax breaks for a few, make a lot of sense right now?

Especially, since our Economic Development employee said they don't want to be know in case they fail?

Are the Konnected County Commissioners considering the extra county expense that will possibly occur for a rural business, out on county roads?

They will be wanting a lot more gravel and maintenance on their roads so people can get out there to them, won't they?

How many different roads will they want fixed up?

Will they want the county to pave the roads out there to thier business?

Where will the expense end?

So sure give property tax breaks to a couple of people as an econimic development plan
with no real gain for the county and only financial loss.

Oh, where is the windfarm money?
I was always taught not to count your chickens before the eggs hatched.
     

[sixdogsmom]

Deja Vu 

[Ross]

Deja Vu  

My exact thought's.
I wonder if the will have professional facilitators?
And the Circles of Chairs?
Will there be a facilitator in each of the Circles of Chairs?

Are we a welfare county for privately owned companies?

Perhaps there should be drug testing for County taxpayer welfare requests?
The state is going to do it aren't they for welfare reciepient's?

Now that's funny, don't ya think?

I can pass a drug and an alcohol test at any time of the day or night and I don't get welfare form anyone, state or county.

But, I am just a crazy redneck old fart with out a diploma dat don't know nothin, that's why all the dumb questions.
Oop's i got that high school thingy, it's the college thingy I ain't got?  So I don't owe no big, huge college school loans to the government welfare loan programs either.

[flintauqua]

From the Payment In Lieu of Taxes Agreement between Elk County and Caney River.  Any mis-spellings are a result of my typing, as the document available on line is an image, and does not allow cut and paste.  Full document can be viewed here:

http://www.tva.com/environment/reports/caney/appendix_b.pdf


"15.   Repeal or Amendment of K.S.A. 79-201; Reduction of PILOT Payments

In the event K.S.A. 79-201 is repealed or amended in a manner that results in an obligation of Caney River or any owner of any of the Future Phases to make ad valorem property tax payments ot the County ina particulas calender year, the PILOT payments hereunder in such calendar year shall be reduced by an amount equal to the amount of ad valorem property tax payments so made or to be made by Caney River or any owner of any of the Future Phases to the County in respect to such calendar year."

So, if the Legislature (last time I checked, they make the laws, not a dictatorial Governor Brownback) decided to place a property tax on wind farm development, the PILOT would be reduced by the amount of property tax paid to the county.  If the property tax due exceeded the PILOT due in a given year, then the county would actually come out ahead.

When is the PILOT due?  From same document, Section 1a states that the first PILOT is due by Dec 31 of the year in which the project goes into commercial operation.

When did the project go into commercial operation?  From the TVA announcement available here:

http://www.tva.com/power/wind_purchases.htm

"ENEL Green Power, LLC

In January 2012, ENEL Green Power, LLC began supplying 201 megawatts from its Caney River wind farm in Elk County, Kan. The power is generated by 111 Vesta turbines."

So, where is the PILOT money?  Right where it is supposed to be until no later than December 31, 2012.

From someone who knows what is going on, instead of just spouting off about things without any personal knowledge, or without doing simple research.

[Ross]

So by that last stament, does that mean you are opposed to any one asking questions?
Or making suggestions that are as old as the hills, such as
Don't count your chickens until the eggs hatch, is that the point, you don't want people considering what their County Commissioners are doingor asking questions.

Well my apologizes to you in advance, because I will continue to ask.

[Patriot]

It's nice to hear what the TVA has to say, but the TVA doesn't pay the PILOT.  Enel and/or Tradewinds pays it. 

Enel North America's parent company, Enel Intl, posted an article in the Rome newspaper on the 27th of December 2011 saying the project was operational.  Further, I believe the Tradewinds or Enel rep was present at a recent county commission meeting and as matter of record, said that 105 towers were commissioned as of December 31, 2011.  He further said that the payment matter was being reviewed by thier legal dept and we could expect a 'substantial' payment soon. 

So just who's story are the voters & taxpayers supposed to believe, chuck? 

[Patriot]

...So, if the Legislature (last time I checked, they make the laws, not a dictatorial Governor Brownback) decided to place a property tax on wind farm development, the PILOT would be reduced by the amount of property tax paid to the county.  If the property tax due exceeded the PILOT due in a given year, then the county would actually come out ahead...

And the legislature may well be examining that possibility...  ask Ms Hendricks who recently traveled to Topeka with Mr Liebau and testified before a state senate subcommittee on the matter of PILOT agreements.  Further, you might do a bit of research on the taxation of property owned by utilities, chuck.  I think you may have misses something.

From someone who knows what is going on, instead of just spouting off about things without any personal knowledge, or without doing simple research.

Ditto. big bird.

[Ross]

I was just reading what a highly respected and highly educated Doctor of Medicine and a politician running for President had to say about our country. I find it very interesting a parallel of our county.

Here we go:
Paul minced no words:
"We've slipped away from a true Republic... Now we're slipping into a fascist system where it's a combination of government and big business and authoritarian rule and the suppression of the individual rights of each and every American citizen."

Paul's message resonated with many people in the crowd, including one supporter who told the Associated Press that "his foreign policy is one of peace."
http://www.mediaite.com/online/ron-paul-tells-missouri-republicans-that-u-s-is-slipping-into-a-fascist-system/

Ann Coulter visited Fox Business's Follow the Money this week to talk about the relationship between corporations and the White House. Speaking to host Eric Bolling, who had laid down his argument for the unhealthy relations between the government and private enterprise, Coulter boiled down the argument to the President Obama being both "a socialist" and "a fascist."
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ann-coulter-warns-of-the-fascist-president-incandescent-lightbulbs/

Well what have we got going on in Elk County?
Isn't it an Elk Konnected, LLC (a privately owned company) relationship with our governing body?
Same thing isn't it?

Elk Konnected, LLC a privately owned company with two of their members on the County Commissioners Board and maybe 2 or 3 members on the School Board. If that isn't something I don't know what is, do you?
It takes two out of three votes to control the board, amazing isn't it?

The County Commissioners that are Konnected even appear to ignore Kansas State Law, what's with that?
Thank You Patriot for this post on another thread.

Read the minutes of the Elk County Commission meetings in this weeks Fallen Star and then read KSA 75-4319(a)(3) & 75-4319(c) below.  Any discrepancies?  If they can't get something this simple right (especially when it's a legal requirement), how in the hell can they 'manage' the county fairly, effectively & lawfully?  Or are they?  Subterfuge... now there's an interesting concept.

K.S.A 75-4319: Closed or executive meetings; conditions; authorized subjects for discussion; binding action prohibited; certain documents identified in meetings not subject to disclosure. (a) Upon formal motion made, seconded and carried, all bodies and agencies subject to the open meetings act may recess, but not adjourn, open meetings for closed or executive meetings. Any motion to recess for a closed or executive meeting shall include a statement of (1) the justification for closing the meeting, (2) the subjects to be discussed during the closed or executive meeting and (3) the time and place at which the open meeting shall resume. Such motion, including the required statement, shall be recorded in the minutes of the meeting and shall be maintained as a part of the permanent records of the body or agency.  Discussion during the closed or executive meeting shall be limited to those subjects stated in the motion.

K.S.A 75-4319(c)   No binding action shall be taken during closed or executive recesses, and such recesses shall not be used as a subterfuge to defeat the purposes of this act.    
(Emphasis added)

They as members of Elk Konnected, LLC say they want an open and honest dialog but refuse to do so, why?

They appear to only want one way communication with the citizens of Elk County, by having entries in the newspaper or the little rural utility company's monthly magazine. No two way dialog?

Why is it necessary to have a newspaper article about County Commissioners meetings when it leaves out so much information about what happens at the meetings. I'm thinking a form of censorship. They tape record the meetings and we have a very expensive web site that is extremely under used, to inform the citizens of Elk County. How about using all that technology that is so expensive? Yes it would be real easy to put the recordings on the internet. Then people would know the whole story instead of what is chosen to tell them. Wouldn't that be what an  honest and educated person could do for their citizens of Elk County?

Heck, they could even stream the meeting on our web site. But that would be worse then leaving a paper trail, wouldn't it?

Or does Elk Konnected, LLC disagree with county government being by the people, of the people, for the people?

This is the 21st century and there is an awful lot of public information on computers in the court house that could easily be placed on our expensive web site. That might make the web site worth the money, don't you think?

I suppose it is rather VILE to suggest any of this, right?

[Ross]

So, if the Legislature (last time I checked, they make the laws, not a dictatorial Governor Brownback) decided to place a property tax on wind farm development, the PILOT would be reduced by the amount of property tax paid to the county.

From someone who knows what is going on, instead of just spouting off about things without any personal knowledge, or without doing simple research.

Yes, out of context. But any one can back up a few posts and read your whole post. Or click on the very first line at the very top of this post and be taken there.

So let me get this straight Flint,  I am asking you if our governor uses his influence on our legislature, then you consider him  a dictator, is that right?

Does that also apply to his meetings of the influential people of Kansas that decided no more windfarms should be built in the tall grass area of Kansas? You understand, I am referring to the meetings he had and he acted as facilitator?

Didn't that group also decide that the wind farms would interfere with their plans for Economic Development in the form of tourism trail rides through Kansas that would run from farm to farm?

So, would that be a form of control via the use of Economic Development and to use taxpayers money to accomplish what a few people want for themselves?

Wow! Again that sounds very familiar to what is happening right here in Elk County, doesn't it?
Would you then refer to what is happening here as a form of dictatorship?

Anyway, I am turning to you as "From someone who knows what is going on.", to set me straight.
I would appreciate any response.
I'm just an ignorant taxpayer asking you to clarify all this if you can? What's the difference?

And since you know what is going on, that secret that our county elected officials are keeping from the general population about Economic Development, would that perhaps be something to do with tourism from Busby (which I hear is an abandoned town) and travel by horse back past an artesian well all the way across to the wind farm?

Isn't unfair to the taxpayers that are paying the wages of County Commissioners and our Economic Development employee to keep everyone except a select few in the dark?

Or, are they sending us a message that they don't work for all the taxpayers in the county?

I feel pretty certain others would like to know where our taxes are being spent, so please tell us.

I truthfully don't see or understand the difference.

I know they are difficult questions to answer so Thank You.

[Ross]

Wow! Wow! Wow!

I just learned I was wrong about the windfarms being 40% efficient.
The numbers I have learned from a pretty reliable source says otherwise.
They actually say 25% to 40%.

Haven't we been lead to believe that the county will be getting Nearly $1 Million ?

Well, if the company can not produce 100%, how can the county expect to be paid 100%, I wonder ?

The Caney River Wind Farm uses the following generator per http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/student/corley4/index.htm#construction

The blue typing are my notes, I used http://www.unit-conversion.info/speed.html to convert to miles per hour.

The following quoted from http://www.thewindpower.net/turbine_technical_en_33_vestas_v90-3000.php  except for the blue remarks.

Vestas V90/3000
  General data
•Wind turbine name: V90/3000
•Nominal power: 3000 kW
•Rotor diameter: 90 m
•Available model
•Wind class: IEC II/III
•Offshore model

Rotor
•Minimum rotor speed: 8,6 rd/min (rounds per minute)
•Maximum rotor speed: 18,4 rd/min(rounds per minute)
•Start-up wind speed: 4 m/s (meters per second) equals 8.947745168218 miles per hour.
•Nominal wind speed: 16 m/s (meters per second) equals 35.79098067287 miles per hour.
•Maximum wind speed: 25 m/s (meters per second) equals 55.92340730136 miles per hour.      
•Manufacturer: Vesta

Enel is Italy's largest power company and the second largest utility listed in Europe by installed capacity. The Enel group operates in 40 countries. (This is where the real money called profits will go, don't ya reckon?)      

As I interpret the above numbers the turbines can not produce at winds below 9 miles per hour or above 56 miles per hour and that is why they are only 25 to 40% efficient. Oh, and don't we have days with no wind at all?     I included the links above so perhaps someone could double check my figures. I'm human and subject to error.  

And let's not forget that the state may still be considering taxing windfarms and wonder where that will actually leave us as far as the Payment In Lieu  Of  Taxes ?  PILOT

Just wondering???