Windfarm funfacts... a little more sunshine

[readyaimduck]

big entities that own the land would have had counsel before signing any leases.  Wouldn't the counsel for these families have seen to it that there was no conflict of interest

In theory, yes.  In my experience no.  Landowners don't always think to have counsel until after the fact.  Then it is too late.

[Hefe de vaca]

     Tradewind is no longer involved with the project. The location was determined by studies made with wind monitoring towers, the only smart way to go about it. What makes this project different than others is the fact that TVA is buying the power. That made it subject to federal specifications.


    What do you guess it costs to construct such a project with the EPA and other government agencies involved , let alone cost in general. One mile of power line is roughly $750,000 . The interconnect substation with Westar was probably in the neighborhood of 10 to 15 million. It takes money to make money.

    Why do some think the families invloved orchestrated this venture? You talk as if they used some political power to bring it about, instead of just being smart businessmen, and women, who happened to aquire property through many years of smart dealing and use of their property. Wealth does not just fall from the sky, and retaining wealth is done by those who use it wisely.

    I reiterate, it is more of an issue as to what is done with Elk county's new wealth, which is not , as Steve thinks, an even trade for taxes not collected. The landowners are not exempt from paying their property taxes, simply because they leased land to Enel.

    Quit quibbling over who indiviually gains what, and focus on what the county as a whole stands to gain, or squander. It doesn't matter who you suggest handle it, the county commission IS who will decide. How about we give them good suggestions and work together for the good of the county? This backbiting I have seen here is counterproductive and is probably the biggest problem the county has as a whole . If the people on here would use their intelligence to HELP and not attempt to HINDER , I'm sure their knowledge and ability to investigate avenues of progress would be more than welcome by all.

[srkruzich]

    Why do some think the families invloved orchestrated this venture? You talk as if they used some political power to bring it about, instead of just being smart businessmen, and women, who happened to aquire property through many years of smart dealing and use of their property. Wealth does not just fall from the sky, and retaining wealth is done by those who use it wisely.

Because when politicians,or commissioners, Or any government representative is personally and financially involved in negotiations with taxpayer dollars being used, and the biggest beneficiary is that of the politician, then what else is there to think.  Don't know if you have taken a look lately for the past 50 years, but Politicians are as corrupt as any resident of any prison in the US. 

[Hefe de vaca]

     So are you including Mr. Liebau in your witch hunt or just Liz, who by the way isn't on the landowner list, other than being a member of the family?

    You actually think she was part of WHAT negotiations ? Tradewinds approached all of the landowners with THEIR proposal. How do you get negotiations from that.
   
     The thing negotiated was PILOT, with ALL of the commisioners.

    The Perkins have a lot of land and money, get over it. They didn't aquire it with shady political deals. The people who have lived here know that. A lot of the ground they own came from Jim's wife's family.


    " Jealousy and stupidity, don't equal harmony" John Prine

[Wilma]

Ready, I think that these landowners would think of counsel before they do anything like this.  They aren't exactly novices at this.

[srkruzich]

    So are you including Mr. Liebau in your witch hunt or just Liz, who by the way isn't on the landowner list, other than being a member of the family?

    You actually think she was part of WHAT negotiations ? Tradewinds approached all of the landowners with THEIR proposal. How do you get negotiations from that.
   
     The thing negotiated was PILOT, with ALL of the commisioners.

    The Perkins have a lot of land and money, get over it. They didn't aquire it with shady political deals. The people who have lived here know that. A lot of the ground they own came from Jim's wife's family.


    " Jealousy and stupidity, don't equal harmony" John Prine

I don't know who mr leibeu or care about perkins land.  And no I won't get over a poltician that could be using taxdollars to fund personal gain.  99% do.  I doubt this county is any different than the rest of the counties across this country.  In fact i know it isn't when the good ole boy system is in place, it is definitely corrupt. 

[Ross]

There are state offices that investigate when a county is involved.  I think that someone posted something that had Tim Norton's name attached to it as to something about county commissioners.  I don't remember where I saw it, but Tim Norton is a Sedgwick County County Commissioner, has been for many years.  If you can't think of anyone else to contact I am sure he could tell you what to do.

What concerns me is how was this done without legal counsel seeing to it that no one involved had a conflict of interest?  Enel would have had legal counsel.  A company like that can't operate without it.  I am sure that any of the big entities that own the land would have had counsel before signing any leases.  Wouldn't the counsel for these families have seen to it that there was no conflict of interest?

here ares so many possible scenerios
If I were to hire legal council it would be for my interest not everyone else's. I would be to protect me. Another thing is if I don't tell him what I want coverd and he doesn't think of of it or if I tell him to ignore it --- then the answer would be no.
Don't you see there are so many scenario's as with any situation.

I had a fight with my attorney in family court in front of a judge because he would not do what I asked him to do. The judge and I had a conversation about the situation where upon the judge gave my attorney a chewing out. I had to learn some of the law to be able to accomplish what had to be done to win in court. Family court is just a kangaroo court and is really weird. However, I did win my case and got my adopted son out of the system and I fired the attorney. What I'm saying is not all lawyers do the right thing at the right time or do as their clients ask them to do.

So the best answer I can give you is maybe not.

[Hefe de vaca]

    "  Well , there you go again " ( Ronald Regan ).  Coming from the south , I'm sure you've seen plenty of crooked politicians. One that comes to mind, Huey P. Long.  I've read several of your posts Steve , and always perceived you to be fair minded. I don't trust most of them ( politicians ) either, but I trust what I see, and know to be fact. You wouldn't want to dis Mr Liebau here. He's a tough old bird who's worked hard for what he has, as have the rest of our people here. There are people with megabucks in our midst, however , that didn't. They don't hold public office or care to, but have influence that reaches much higher than county goverment.

    FYI, Mr Liebau is also a county commissioner. Amazes me you don't know that.  Any "good ole boy" back scratching that happens here pales in comparison to what is going on , and has been forever, in our nations Capitol. I wholeheartedly agree with you there. We need congressional reform on a large scale. I see the internet as one of the only ways we can do it. When your voting choices are bad, or worse, change is hard to effect by voting.

[Ross]

Good morning, I sure hope everyone had an incident free Independence Day Celebration.

I just could not believe what I was reading. It sounds like you are saying there is justification in wrong doing in the small level of local government because it is not as bad of wrong doing on the national level.
That sort of thinking just blows me away. And what do you think has driven our whole country to the brink that it is at today? Who, who, who are you Jefe?

Coming from the south , I'm sure you've seen plenty of crooked politicians.

I personally don't believe where you hail from, or where you have been, or where you are going justifies crooked politicians. Or that it means they can't be everywhere. Or that errors by a politician makes them a crooked politician.

I don't trust most of them ( politicians ) either, but I trust what I see, and know to be fact.

In other words if you are a member of an organization that ask for money (a hand out) from and you are an elected official that is going to vote on awarding that money to your organization, you can't see that as a conflict of interest?

He's a tough old bird who's worked hard for what he has, as have the rest of our people here. There are people with megabucks in our midst, however , that didn't. They don't hold public office or care to, but have influence that reaches much higher than county government.

Are you saying it matters whether or not a person holds office or has mega bucks or has influence that reaches much higher than county government justifies any form of wrong doing paraphrased as "good ole boy " stuff?

Any "good ole boy" back scratching that happens here pales in comparison to what is going on , and has been forever, in our nations Capitol. I wholeheartedly agree with you there. We need congressional reform on a large scale. I see the internet as one of the only ways we can do it. When your voting choices are bad, or worse, change is hard to effect by voting.

Whether it pales in comparison to what is going on in our capitol is irrelevant, is it still not wrong?
If you can't correct it at home how do you expect to correct it 1284 miles away from home?
Don't you think you should insure your government at home is working as it is designed to work, work on those possible problems and then maybe work on the state level problems before trying to challenge the National level of Government problems?  Any problems need to be addressed from the bottom up wouldn't you think?

Who steers the steering committee?

Who are the admitted members who own, and run,
Elk Konnected.

Who is your Puppet Master?

What are your real goals?

How do you plan to meet your goals? I'm hauling this over to http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=11780.1860;num_replies=1860

[srkruzich]

   "  Well , there you go again " ( Ronald Regan ).  Coming from the south , I'm sure you've seen plenty of crooked politicians. One that comes to mind, Huey P. Long.  I've read several of your posts Steve , and always perceived you to be fair minded. I don't trust most of them ( politicians ) either, but I trust what I see, and know to be fact. You wouldn't want to dis Mr Liebau here. He's a tough old bird who's worked hard for what he has, as have the rest of our people here. There are people with megabucks in our midst, however , that didn't. They don't hold public office or care to, but have influence that reaches much higher than county goverment.

    FYI, Mr Liebau is also a county commissioner. Amazes me you don't know that.  Any "good ole boy" back scratching that happens here pales in comparison to what is going on , and has been forever, in our nations Capitol. I wholeheartedly agree with you there. We need congressional reform on a large scale. I see the internet as one of the only ways we can do it. When your voting choices are bad, or worse, change is hard to effect by voting.

Quite frankly, money doesn't scare me.  I have nothing to take, so they are powerless against me.  As far  as mr Liebau, i don't worry about him nor do i worry about any official.  He can be put out of office just as fast as he was put in.  Money is only a tool.  Just because its been forever in our nations capital doesn't mean its acceptable.  And they saw that this last election cycle.  Next one will be another blood bath for those who refuse to obey their boss's. US.  And it starts here local level. IF theres a corrupt SOB in office, expose em and get them out.  Make it painful for them.  VERY painful.  Personally if they were exposed and caught, i would propose siezing all their assets to start.  That would be a good start.