By The Sea......

[srkruzich]

Long story short...how do we know that the Bible, as it is today, is the Word of God for a certainity?  You can't say that if you read it enough or hear it enough that it becomes true.  In a way, that is like telling a lie over and over again until you believe its true.  I know thats a bad anaology but...still the same principle.

THe bible as it is today, and I am setting a personal limitation on as it is today.  My limitation is the most accurate that is in english form and that would be KJV.  Not the new but the traditional KJV.

I would say use some of the newer ones as study guides.

But what do you think faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God means.

I say it means you cannot have the faith in the bible to come to God unless you hear it.  It doesn't matter how you hear it by reading or by sermons or by whatever method tells you.  All the Gospel is the story of Christ.   First of all if your a unbeliever, you cannot possibly understand the bible except for the 4 gospels and romans.  THe rest is hidden.

So the Word is the Gospel of christ.  And Romans is the mission of christ set out by paul.  To spread the Gospel and to bring those that HEAR to christ.

SO once you hear it, you have been given a seed that will sprout into faith if it grows.  That is not up to me, or anyone else on this earth. That is up to the spirit to grow it.  ONce it has grown, you take the step and start seeking him.  Note i said earlier that Christianity is the only religion that God seeks man instead of man seeking him.  This is how he seeks man.  He sends other beleivers out to spread the word/seed.  he seeks out everyone.  ONly those who are fertile/receptive will grow.  Then they begin to seek God and find him.  They choose at that point to become his or to turn away.

Then once one has come to God, and is his, then understanding of the rest of the Bible comes into play.  The Holy Spirit descentds upon us and provides understanding.

What you say is a contradiction is not one but one of misinterpretation.  YOu have to understand how lwriting was done 2000 years ago.  They wrote in schynecdoche's which is basically a process represented by one word.

Most people don't understand it but the spirit does and thats one reason why  you can read the same passage many times and get so many positive meanings out of it.

[srkruzich]

Well, first we can use the behavior of modern day christians as an example.  They say that God spoke to the men who wrote the Bible.  However, if a person does something and says "God told me to" they will call that person crazy depending on the action.  So, in a way, they are changing the story to fit the so called "facts".  Thats not faith, thats the outcome of brainwashing.  True, you could say this about every major religion, and thats my point.  Faith should open a persons eyes, not seal them shut to the truth.
 

Today God does not write or reveal new revelations.  The bible is done it is finished.  There is nothing new to add to it.

No doubt.  Thats why I believe a person should take a look at all of them, with an open and unbiased mind.  They all contain elements of truth.

SO lets take hinduism for example.  Which of the over 10,000 gods do you have to serve?  In fact if you serve the wrong god in hindu belief your going to end up pissing off another one of their gods and hellls going tto break loose on ya. 
So your chasing your tail trying to appese thousands of gods.  too much work!   

Bhuddism is a end to nowhere as Budda was not a god, nor a prophet, he was just fat dude that said some kool stuff.  Nothing more.  He never claimed to be a god.

Now Christ said he is God. 

Mohammed was not god nor was he considered god.

The mystery is why we as a people continue to fight one another over religion.  When all we have to do is open our eyes to the fact that God is so much more than can be contained in a book.  He is every where, in everything, at all times.  No matter the name that we choose to call Him, Yaweh, Allah, He is the same.  The only difference is how we choose to worship.

And that is what makes the difference.  IF you go at it anyway other than Grace through faith, then your missing the mark.

[Varmit]

Srkruzich, I know what you are saying, I've heard it my whole life.  Pretty much all of the information you presented comes from the Bible, the KJV.  Which was edited by man.  Books from the original text were taken out by man.  The point being is that you can't use the Bible to prove that the Bible authentic.  You say the books agree with one another...really...

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number Israel.

So which is it?  Gods anger or Satan?  And theres more...

Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

Matt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

So either Judas used the money or he didn't, which "interpertation" are we to believe?  The very story of Christs conception isn't something that is agreed upon..

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

No sir, the books do not agree with each other. 

[srkruzich]

Srkruzich, I know what you are saying, I've heard it my whole life.  Pretty much all of the information you presented comes from the Bible, the KJV.  Which was edited by man.  Books from the original text were taken out by man.  The point being is that you can't use the Bible to prove that the Bible authentic.  You say the books agree with one another...really...

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number Israel.

So which is it?  Gods anger or Satan?  And theres more...

BOTH.  if you notice in Samuel the word he is not capitalized which is always done when referencing God or Christ.  he in this verse And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah., means that Satan moved David.
He is an instrument of God to bring judgment on Israel, and David is but an instrument of Satan to execute the plan. God is bringing about a judgment on Israel for their having been rebellious toward David, using Satan to accomplish His task through David. Just as in Job where Satan is allowed by God to bring trials and afflictions to Job.

Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

Matt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."

quite frankly i don't know that they are speaking about judas in Acts. It does not say Judas, it says This man and there is no reference to the story elsewhere about a man dying on a field like that.  Being that Judas was a common name, and if you doubt that, it mentions in a prior verse about Judas the brother of James which is a totally different man from Judas Iscariot.  I don't think that this is the same judas.   It still doesn't make the passage in disagreement with anything else.

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

No sir, the books do not agree with each other. 

Act 2:29  Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Again your not using the passage but one verse.  If you take verse 29, it explains that he is talking about DAVID being the prophet not joseph.

[srkruzich]

JUST so tht you know Varmit, the biggest mistake in claiming contradictions is using 1 verse on 1 verse in comparison.  You have to use passage to passage.

And i don't know what version you were using but it took a lot of liberties in its translation.

[Patriot]

The very story of Christs conception isn't something that is agreed upon..

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

No sir, the books do not agree with each other.  

Time being an issue right now, I'll address only one of your examples.  Perhaps the other later.

Lest one read carefully and with understanding your analysis might seem correct.  The reference in Acts is to the human lineage from which Jesus was born(according to the flesh).  That being the line of the Patriarch David.  Simply put, both Joseph & Mary lines run through David, both Mary's family and Joseph's family were of the tribe of Judah.  Jesus' heritage to David legally existed through both.  Mary by blood & Joseph by adoption.  With all the attacks on Jesus by the the Pharisees and Sadducees, there is no record of any of them ever claiming that Jesus had not descended from David.  Moreover, because the genealogy records were available for inspection at the Temple in Jerusalem until the Romans burnt the Temple later in the year 66 C.E. If Jesus were a fraud, they would have been able to easily expose him.

The reference you cite in Matthew expresses the divine part of the equation.  That is Mary had not yet been sexually active with Joseph, yet was miraculously pregnant by the Holy Spirit (according to the Spirit).  It takes 2 to tango.  There's the two.  Mother (by flesh) and Father (by Spirit).  The necessity to bypass Joseph as Jesus' biological father is a spiritual matter as well and goes to the need to avoid inheritance of Adam's nature of sin. But that's another issue.

Comparing those two verses seeking some sort of 'agreement' is apples & oranges folly.  No disagreement in these two verses at all.
Actually they reinforce everything else the Bible says about Jesus' lineage, birth & flesh/divine nature.

I'm always struck by the following admonition:

2Ti 2:15     Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

That 'rightly dividing' part can be a real pain unless the study part is meticulous.

[srkruzich]

There was also another reason for the adoption by joseph and conception by God.   It was a mini prophacy so to speak.  When he talks about the vine, and grafting the gentiles into the vine.  Joseph was grafting christ into his lineage  but christ was also a direct line through his mother.   It was a symbolic rejoining of the jews and gentiles.   You see technically were all gentiles.  The jews became jews by choice when abraham chose to follow God thereby splitting away from gentiles.  when Christ was born it was a rejoining of both.

[Patriot]

...the other was (and I'm gonna get grilled for this one) a video I saw on youtube (yeah,...I know) called the Esotertic Agenda.

Just to be fair, I watched some of this video.  I also listened to a long interview with Ben Stewart, the film's creator.  

I'm reminded of listening to the real hard core dopeheads in college.  Heady, disjointed, drug induced ramblings of young people with very little life experience, too much psilocybin in their system, and who think they had found nirvana.  Like, wow man!  Mr. Stewart admits a Catholic upbringing and exposure to some of the Mystic Religions by the age of 12.  His musings in the interview demonstrate a clear reading of many topics and a mastery of none.  His accumulation of widely varied conspiracy theories of historical events and multiple religions seems an attempt to make them all relevant, intertwined and rolled into some single, great spiritual revelation.  Very little, if any, personal fact checking with a great reliance on internet sources and way out authors.  For this kid, EVERYTHING is a great conspiracy.  Worldwide mind control.  From religion to science to government to restaurant owners.  It's the infamous 'they' who are controlling the uninformed 'us.' And many of his views seem the result a simple compilations... Nothing much appeared to be original work.  

Do I believe some conspiracies exist, yes.  Am I wary of the Progressive movement and its' influence on government & society?  You betcha.  Do I accept the premise that power corrupts, most definitely.  Was this boogeyman excrement life changing on any level?  No way!  Paranoid schizophrenia is a mental disease.  I suspect  when at home, late at night, Mr. Stewart sees sound, hears color & keeps watch for the Great Pumpkin. I predict his full psychotic break within 2-5 years.  A link to the interview is posted below.  Grab a cup of coffee, make sure your electromagnetic fields are aligned,  and enjoy.

I think Pam had the expression that fits best... ""THAT was stupid."  

Varmit, if you buy this shit in the collective, IMO, you really need to reconsider.  If this drivel changed your life...change it back.
You've been grilled.  

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2008/05may/RICR-080511-bstewart.mp3

[thatsMRSc2u]

Patriot.....Please dont use quotes of mine as parts of your rants...I prefer not to be associated with them.

[Varmit]

Well, just to be fair...I'll leave my mind the way it is for now.  I've been down the Bible thumping road and at least to me, it doesn't add up.  Thats not to say that I don't believe in God or Christ, all I'm saying is that there are things in this world that the Bible doesn't touch, cannot explain.  The fact that the Creator has given me a brain and the ability to use it, to ask "why?", to question things that I don't understand and not merely accept them as "Gods will" leads me to believe that He wants me to use it.  I believe that God wants me..all of us..to see that His creation is so much more than we make it.  And that there is so much more to life than what is written in a book that no one knows what the original said. 

You say that there is not a Worldwide conspiracy is to deny the battle taking place between good and evil.  According to the Bible, Satans whole purpose in life is to "win" as many souls as he can from God, no?  And will he not use any method he can to accomplish this?  Isn't that the reason Christians give for trying to ban everything from Rock-N-Roll to alcohol to Sex Ed to weed to books and movies to homosexual marriage?  Isn't that the reason they look down from their highhorse on unwed mothers, scantily clad women, other religions, people who smoke or have the ocasional drink,  and just about anything that questions their belief?  They blame it on Satan? 

So lets see, I could accept other people for who they are and look for the beauty and the divine in all of Gods Creation or only see what I'm told to see??  I think I'll go with the first option.