Building doesn't collapse

[Sailmexico]

You really are a wonder miss Diane. 

If you knew anything about molten aluminum you'd know that it is not bright orange, it is silver in color.  Molten iron is bright orange.  And "weakened" steel would definitely not result in a straight down collapse at free fall speed.  The key is that the buildings fell in virtually the same time a brick (since you don't get bowling balls) would have taken to fall the same distance through thin air.  That is all one needs to know to eliminate gravitational collapse as a possibility, which leaves us with what?  The use of explosives.

Investigators should not assume anything before making conclusions, and their conclusions should be based upon the evidence.  When you express incredulity "That Bush would attack the Pentagon? His own Military? Perhaps the Capitol or his own White House?" you have already made your conclusions.

I did not say flight 93 was a 747, I was referring to the plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon.

As for the my theory concerning the fate of the passengers here are some facts.  FACTS!

The total capacity of all four planes was 762, and yet there were in total only 229 passengers, including the 19 alleged hijackers.

There is no physical evidence that flight 11 hit the first tower.  There was one short clip taken by a film crew filming a fireman.  It is impossible to say what plane is in the video.

Ditto flight 175 and the second tower.

This is the first incident in which the flight recorders - black boxes - have not been recovered.  It is unprecedented.

There is no physical evidence that the Pentagon was hit by a 747 - Flight 77.

Flight 77 originated at Dulles, just 20 miles from the Pentagon, and yet flew hundreds of miles before returning toward Washington D C.  Why?

Flight 93 was shot down.  Why?

If this was a covert operation carried out by the CIA in conjunction with Mossad - and made to look like Islamic extremists did it, then a whole new set of possibilities unfold.  They could have access to secure buildings.  Complicity at the highest levels of government could be expected.  A scenario to transfer all of the passengers and crew from the scheduled flights to one flight - flight 93, which had more than enough time to land at a military base in Ohio and load passengers from the other three flights - and then shoot that flight down, killing the unwitting passengers.

If you think that sort of thing is beyond the capability of your beloved government then I suggest you read their plans for "Operation Northwoods" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Here is an excerpt:
It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

    a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
    b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio[15] stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.


It is an undeniable fact of history that the covert operatives of the United States Government have taken innocent lives to further its political agenda.  You are naive if you think the President of the United States serves your interests or the interests of ordinary citizens.  We are nothing more than slaves in the opinion of the elite.  They think absolutely nothing about sending tens of thousands of young men off to die if it will mean making a profit for the corporations and bankers who truly do run the show.

Why did we lose 58,000 men in Vietnam?  One of whom was my 19 year old brother.  For the sole benefit of the military industrial complex.  War is immensely profitable.  George Bush's grandfather Prescott Bush, another member of Yale's secret "Skull and Bones" society, was making money from Hitler's military armament.  Documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s.

War was the goal of 9/11.  Lying by means of a "false flag" attack has forever been every government's way of tricking its population into a war.  There is nothing new in a government lying to their people to start a war. Indeed because most people prefer living in peace to bloody and horrific death in war, any government that desires to initiate a war usually lies to their people to create the illusion that support for the war is the only possible choice they can make.

Lyndon Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin attacks, and it caused the public to at first support our involvement in Vietnam.   

President McKinley lied to the American people that the USS Maine had been sunk in Havana Harbor by a Spanish mine. The American people, outraged by this apparent unprovoked attack, supported the Spanish American War. The Captain of the USS Maine had insisted the ship was sunk by a coal bin explosion, investigations after the war proved that such had indeed been the case. There had been no mine.

FDR lied when he claimed Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack. It wasn't. The United States saw war with Japan as the means to get into war with Germany, which Americans opposed. So Roosevelt needed Japan to appear to strike first. Following an 8-step plan devised by the Office of Naval Intelligence, Roosevelt intentionally provoked Japan into the attack. Contrary to the official story, the fleet did not maintain radio silence, but sent messages intercepted and decoded by US intercept stations. Tricked by the lie of a surprise attack, Americans marched off to war.

Did these presidents care that their lies were going to cost innocent American lives?  Hell no!

So why Diane do you have such a difficult time believing that Bush and his cronies might have lied to get us to go to war.  It is a proven fact he lied after 9/11 in order to take us into Iraq.  There were no WMDs.  No weapons of mass destruction.  But lets suppose there had been... would we have then been justified to invade Iraq?

If your neighbor is armed and crazy, do you have the right to enter his home and kill him? 

But that's fodder for another post on the ethics of war.

[Sailmexico]

Now you've got me thinking Diane.  As I reread the excerpt taken from the Operation Northwoods plan I noticed what should have jumped off the page at me... or anyone investigating the events of 9/11.   I've highlighted it below.

Taken from "Operation Northwoods", the government's plan to trick Americans into a war with Cuba in the '60s.

It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

    a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
    b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio[15] stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.

Carefully selected aliases!  What do you suppose that means?  What are carefully selected aliases?  Do you know any of the passengers that were alleged to be aboard flights 77, 175, 93 or 11?  I know I don't.  Maybe they were CAREFULLY SELECTED ALIASES.  Or maybe only some of them were.

For me it's enough to know there is a precedent for this kind of planning on the part of our government.  I don't have to know all the details.  Like I've said before, I only need to see one white crow to know all crows are not black.

[Varmit]

Diane and Others, heres a suggestion...Instead of trying to debate this issue using strawman arguments and trying to punch holes in the varying conspiracies with "what if" and "how could they" type questions, how about presenting actual facts to either explain what happend or to refute the theories??  So far, more facts have been presented on this thread in favor of 9/11 being an inside job than not.  All the arguments against the theories have been "How could Bush do it by himself?" or simply regurgitated bits of the offical story or out right lies, as in...

Why don't people talk to the fire service and the engineers and the architect who built it. Actually, he did do a program explaining what happened.  I saw it and wish I could find it again.

Like I stated earlier, it would have been impossible for a person to see the architect do a program explaining what happened as he died in 1986.  Watch the video I posted on page 4 of this thread.  Bear in mind that the "powers that be" have, for the most part, all favored a One World solution to the problems we face (i.e. New World Order).  Well guess what...they gave birth to it on 9/11.

[Varmit]

tell me again that bombs weren't used...

[Varmit]

On a different note. Where did some of you get the idea there were no plane parts inside the pentagon?  Don't you remember the story of the burned soldier talking about being rescued and the airplane wheel that was next to him?  They also had the nose wheel and other parts and pieces that had to be moved to get to the victims. There are many many photos, most of which are still classified. It was  the pentagon! They didn't let just anybody with a camera inside. There was some plane rubble outside, not much, but I saw lots of building rubble outside the hole in the TV shots thereat the time. It was cleaned up fairly easily. It was not a high rise building!

OMG...Seriously...make up your mind would ya...either jet fuel burns at temp.s so high that it vaporizes the plane upon impact with a building or it doesn't...which is it?  And speaking of really high temps, how is it that "supposed" parts of an airplane (parts small enough to be carried by hand) managed to escape the pentagon fire without so much as a smudge or any trace of fire evidence?  And since I'm on the subject of fires...how is it that the planes that hit the towers disengrated on impact causing a fire with temps so high that it melted metal that a passport of one of the so-called terrorists managed to escape, espcially when you HAVE to consider that he WAS ON THE PLANE AND INCENERATED ON IMPACT??

Open your eyes...

[kshillbillys]

[kshillbillys]

[kshillbillys]

[kshillbillys]

Varmit--Son, I set through the entire agonizing video you wanted me to watch as we discussed today. So you set and watch more or less the same thing, just do more reading. I told you once, for every video you put up, I will put them up too. I know the old saying of you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. I hope this will make you put down the koolaid, but I know i'm just pissin in the wind. And, listening to the ignorance coming from this guy's mouth, he sounds like a 16 year old doing a high school project on conspiracy theories or plots but i guess that's just because I am NAIVE, STUPID, IGNORANT, WHATEVER  AND EASILY MANIPULATED. Alright, you 3 get on here and manipulate me and make me see it your way.---Robert

[Teresa]

Well Robert.. You can't have it both ways..so I guess you think that our government is pure and good and is no way corrupt or a soulless power machine..
I hope YOU have enough Koolaid to get you through the next few years..You are gonna need it..
I'd offer to make you some extra.. but I don't have a clue as to what is in yours. I only drink the kind my grand kids drink.. you know.. the regular kind without the hallucinogenics  

((How many roman candles you gonna need.? I only need one.))