Building doesn't collapse

[Varmit]

Found the full length video...I'll let it speak for itself.

[kshillbillys]

Teresa---Robert says he would love to have a duel with you. How about 4th of July and you pick the Roman Candles?

[Diane Amberg]

No Teresa,I was not personally there. I was lucky. I was at a fire service conference at the time. BUT I do have friends who were there and some who lost brothers and sisters, cousins, other family members and lots of friends. We are an easy train ride or drive to NYC.  Lots of people here work in both Philly and NYC., and Washington. Remember Cantor Fitzgerald that was on the floor that took a direct hit from one plane? Several were there. Do you think those many, many thousands who were affected would have just walked away and not dug on this and investigated and continued to pursue it if there was any chance of a Gov't conspiracy? And the fire fighters do talk, even now. I have several personal friends who now work as FDNY and were hired when all those fire fighters had to be replaced. One lives on Statten Island and takes the ferry to work. They still talk about all of it, including the damage done to the other buildings, how that happened and why the one building was deliberately taken down. Sure even though the buildings did fall straight down, the footprint on the way to the ground got bigger and bigger as the "rubble" was added as the stuff fell. Yes, there was side damage which damaged other buildings.
On a different note. Where did some of you get the idea there were no plane parts inside the pentagon?  Don't you remember the story of the burned soldier talking about being rescued and the airplane wheel that was next to him?  They also had the nose wheel and other parts and pieces that had to be moved to get to the victims. There are many many photos, most of which are still classified. It was  the pentagon! They didn't let just anybody with a camera inside. There was some plane rubble outside, not much, but I saw lots of building rubble outside the hole in the TV shots thereat the time. It was cleaned up fairly easily. It was not a high rise building!
As far as the flight 93 crash in PA, why aren't you interested in that, where there still are questions about what brought the plane down? We know the passengers did try to take over the plane, but it has never been proven that they were successful. There were lots of witnesses that saw it go down, almost straight down, and even a seismograph reading when it hit the soft ground, so it is well documented that the event did happen. But there is some question as to whether the plane started coming apart before it hit the ground because of debris that was found relatively far away, not close to the site of impact and couldn't be explained due to wind or other forces. That one I'd like to know more about.

[Sailmexico]

Robert would benefit from studying history.  He would find that it is replete with conspiracies that have been proven true.  Check out "Operation Northwood", just Google it and you'll find that it is an established fact that the U.S. government had plans to kill U.S. citizens and blame it on the Cubans.  Just because the plan was never carried out doesn't mean they weren't serious.

Check out the USS Liberty incident of 1967 http://www.rense.com/general87/shad.htm and you'll find another false flag operation that was carried out, but failed.  Although the Israelis tried for two hours to sink the Liberty, using aircraft and torpedo boats, the Liberty refused to sink.  The investigation by the two governments involved, Israel and the U.S., (foxes investigating a raid on the hen house) determined it was a case of mistaken identity.  Only a landlubber would fall for that pile of crap.  The first thing a sailor looks for is the flag, and the crew of the liberty, during the heat of battle hoisted their biggest flag... impossible to miss.  

There was a U.S. carrier less than 200 miles away (that's five minutes in a fighter plane) and they had scrambled aid but were ordered to return immediately.  This is treason.

34 seamen were killed and 172 wounded.  U.S. citizens were sacrificed in an effort to blame the Egyptians and give the U.S. a legitimate reason to enter the war between Egypt and Israel.  In other words... a false flag operation for the purpose of tricking the American public into fighting Israel's enemies.  Hmmm... sound familiar?

While you're checking history, with your pious "our government would never be involved in anything so heinous" check out the fact that Eisenhower re-classified several hundred thousand surrendered German soldiers after WWII had ended from POW (prisoner of war) to DEF (disarmed enemy fighter) so that he could deny them the food and shelter assured by the Geneva convention.  An estimated 800,000 of them were starved to death in Ike's death camps, and not a word of it can be found in the history books in our schools.  But it is a verified fact of history.

You also appear to be woefully lacking in your knowledge of the history of the Pearl Harbor false flag operation.

In July of 1941, Japanese assets in England and America were frozen, illegally confiscating Japanese property. Churchill and FDR cutting off 90% of Japan's oil supply and 75% of its foreign trade, also imposed a trade embargo. During a meeting with Churchill in August of 1941, Roosevelt made an agreement with Churchill to declare war on Japan if Japan invaded British or Dutch colonies in Asia.

On November 26th, 1941, FDR's Secretary of State Cordell Hull delivered an ultimatum to Japan; dictating what policies Japan must follow.On November 25, 1941 Japan's Admiral Yamamoto sent a radio message to the group of Japanese warships that would attack Pearl Harbor on December 7. Publicly released naval records prove that from November 17 to 25 the United States Navy intercepted eighty-three messages that Yamamoto sent to his carriers. Part of the November 25 message read: "...the task force, keeping its movements strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet in Hawaii and deal it a mortal blow...

"Robert Stinnett, author of Day Of Deceit, provides the proof. Stinnett's book is dedicated to Congressman John Moss, the author of America's Freedom of Information Act. According to Stinnett, the answers to the secrets of Pearl Harbor can be found in the large number of documents he was able to attain through Freedom of Information Act requests. Cable after cable of decryptions, scores of military messages that America was intercepting, clearly showed that Japanese ships were preparing for war and heading straight for Hawaii. Stinnett, an author, journalist, and World War II veteran, spent sixteen years delving into the National Archives. He read over more than 200,000 documents, and conducted dozens of interviews.

The research led Stinnet to this conclusion: FDR knew.In October 1940 FDR adopted a specific strategy to incite Japan to commit an overt act of war. Part of the strategy was to move America's Pacific fleet out of California and anchor it in Pearl Harbor. Admiral James Richardson, the commander of the Pacific fleet, very strongly opposed keeping the ships in harm's way in Hawaii. He expressed this to Roosevelt, and so the President relieved him of his command. Later Richardson quoted Roosevelt as saying: "Sooner or later the Japanese will commit an overt act against the United States and the nation will be willing to enter the war."

There are so many more.  
The Iran Contra - a covert conspiracy

JFK assassination - concluded by United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) that although JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald it was a conspiracy.

The CIA is in the conspiracy business!  They were investigated by the Church Committee and found for example, the assassinations of Allende in Chile and Mossadegh in Iran. Assassinations against Central and South American leaders and revolutionaries, as well as Africa, Middle East and East Asia. The list was tremendous.

You actually have to be a certified numbskull NOT to believe in conspiracies when you study history.  Their were many plots to kill Queen Elizabeth I.  Back then the were called plots, which is another word for conspiracy.  The Babbington Plot, Ridolfi Plot, Gunpowder Plot, and one led by an 11th great uncle of mine, the Throckmorton Plot.  Luckily for her, and the Protestants of England, she survived them all.

Naive? Stupid? Ignorant? Whatever.  One thing is for certain... easily manipulated.

[Sailmexico]

Diane,
As for the plane in Pennsylvania... the one that contained all the passengers who were supposedly on the two remotely controlled planes that flew into the Twin Towers.  Yeah... those planes were empty dear heart.  It is one of the 9/11 anomolies - there were in all four planes few enough passengers to fit into one of them (if you deduct the 19 fictitious Arabs who were never on the boarding manifest or recorded by any of the security cameras in the airports... all of which by the way were secured by an Israeli owned security company)

Watch this video as Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld states in plain English that the plane was shot down over Pennsylvania.  It's called a "Freudian slip", also known as a parapraxis - A verbal mistake that is thought to reveal a repressed belief, thought, or emotion.

I would add that those who deny through cognitive dissonance, or confirmation bias the evidence pointing toward a truth they just can't accept, will never be given enough evidence to change their minds.  I would include you in that category.



Try to understand the "white crow" example of deductive reasoning.  It is simply that you only need to find one white crow to prove that all crows are not black. 

[Diane Amberg]

Mr. Sail, Nice photo of the burned fuel tanker but I fail to see the connection. I've had all the training and had some personal experience with them, not bombed of course, but from accidents. One went off an overpass and onto the highway below. They are built to stand some abuse and since it didn't Bleve, it either wasn't very hot over all, vented the cargo, or was empty. Now burning tires are really hot. But I don't know how there can be a comparison with the towers? When I have a minute I'll show your photo to my flammable liquids instructor and see what he says. As far as bowling balls and such ya lost me. I just don't see the comparisons.
 One thing I will say, the owners of the buildings got very complacent after the first attempt in the parking garage explosion when nothing much happened. It was the world trade center, the business heart for many countries here in the US. Because of the time zones involved, places like that are never empty, they are open and doing business 24 hours a day. They don't close for lunch either.
  Bomb sniffing dogs? They were still there.There had been a higher alert shortly before, but all the dogs were not removed. One of them died during the incident. Where do the people you want to believe get this stuff? Do you really think other countries would have stood by and done nothing if they thought our Gov't. did this to them?  As far as just flashing a badge and having free access to the buildings ,surely you jest. This wasn't a scene out of a Die Hard movie. A bunch of people dragging around all the equipment to bring down a building that size?  How would you get to the places to put the explosives in? If you believe that you must believe the OK City bombing was prewired too.That theory is still around. I know our Gov't has it's share of corrupt people and things aren't all rosy because of big business interests and powerful people or people who want to be powerful people or stand in their shadow, but our elected officials, we put them there, did not blow up those buildings! If you really believe our own Gov't is and was and will be the enemy, then our country was lost to powerful interests years ago.
Of course things were done that were considered at the time to be in the interest of our country. Why wouldn't they be? Look at all the stuff from WWII that is finally being declassified now. Many many books are being written about things that happened here and other countries, especially Great Britain. As for flight 93 being empty, you're telling me the 40 or so people who's names and photos we saw, and the stories about them were fake? Their families and friends must love knowing their loved ones didn't exist. I suppose now you'll tell me the locals who saw the plane, the news papers and firefighters and all the personnel were "in on it" too? And the funeral directors and all the memorial services? I don't think so. As far as there not being many on board, that's not that unusual. I've been on many a flight where the majority of the passengers got on at later stops, but it did eventually did fill up. Remotely controlled empty planes? I guess it didn't work very well did it? Good grief!

[Teresa]

Teresa---Robert says he would love to have a duel with you. How about 4th of July and you pick the Roman Candles?

Cool! We'll so it at our annual lake party...I'll buy Roberts roman candles at Piedmont..
I'll have mine custom made.. 
*whispering* Robert... wear metal underwear.. 
ROTFL~~




SailMexico~~ You have a wealth of knowledge..with facts to back it all up... but.........  sighhh..
You could have God standing here with all the evidence and its not gonna matter..
The lights are on.. but nobodys home..

[Sailmexico]

Diane,
I'm beginning to understand your problem, but I won't articulate it out of kindness.

I didn't say flight 93 was empty.  Read it again.  It was full.  It was shot down to eliminate the passengers from all planes.   I would explain the possible scenario but what's the use.  I used the simplest example of gravitational potential energy, and kinetic energy with my example of a bowling ball and "lost you".

You need to acknowledge that you aren't bright enough to understand the real evidence and trust the 1,300 architects and engineers who are http://www.ae911truth.org/ or the physicists http://www.physics911.net/ or the journalists http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20090917032602804 or the professional pilots http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/ and who, having studied the evidence, decided the government's conspiracy theory stinks.

As for not getting the connection between the tanker which was carrying a full load of jet fuel when it was set on fire by an IED... what can I say that wouldn't hurt your feelings?  If you don't get the connection, the obvious physical proof that burning jet fuel doesn't melt steel - thin sheet steel - or even warp it, then it's little wonder you would believe the official bullshit story.

The entire official story begins with the ludicrous idea that student pilots, small in stature, could - with a 400% rate of success - overpower four large ex military pilots and their copilots and remove them from the cockpit armed with some cheap box cutters, and then navigate from 30,000 feet to targets that were not in sight.

Let's forget the problem of flying the airplane and just deal with the problem of navigation.  It would be impossible for anyone without a lot of experience.

I am a pilot with 900 hours of flight time.  That's quite a bit considering private pilots fly on average about 24 hours annually.  I got my hours within a few years selling airplanes in the early '70s.  I can tell you that without a doubt I could not have done what the "terrorists" are reported to have done.  Particularly the 747 that supposedly struck the Pentagon.

Even if they could have flown an airplane that is as different from a Cessna 150 trainer as a bicycle is from a bus... THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND THE PENTAGON.  How would they have know which way to go?  You think it's easy because you've never piloted a plane.  I've been lost flying a plane at 120 miles per hour.  It is four times more difficult to navigate at four times the speed.  

Pilots use sophisticated navigational instruments.  In my day we followed an OMNI signal and flew in and out on radials.  These days GPS is used, but you have to be familiar with the instrumentation.  There is no evidence that these student pilots had any such training.  They would not have gotten it in the training they received in Florida.

And in response to another of your posts.  Yes, and airplane hit the Pentagon, but it was not a 747.  The wreckage from 200 tons of airplane is immense.  And the engines alone weigh 50,000 lbs each and are made from indestructable titanium.  There was only ONE hole bored through three sections of the Pentagon... not the two that would have evidenced an airplane with two engines.

Each wing of a 747 weighs 95,000 lbs - as much as two fully loaded semi-trailers.  They would not have simply folded up and entered the small hole we see in the initial photos of the Pentagon crash site.

I want to make two more points concerning the Pentagon.  They will, I think, point out the level of naivete among ordinary citizens like yourself, which permits such bullshit to be believed.  

In Iraq we had anti missile weapons placed all over the base and particularly surrounding the building where all the bigshots worked.  They were called Phalanx Anti Missile systems.  They were developed by the Navy and nothing can get past one.  Take a look http://www.metacafe.com/watch/333517/phalanx_anti_missile_system/

The Pentagon is surely the most protected building on planet Earth.  I don't know for a fact that it is protected by Phalanx systems, but I'm sure it is protected by technology as good or better.  Nothing could have hit the Pentagon unless it was permitted to.  Consider that there had to have been a stand down order, and there is evidence of that fact, or the best military in the world would have scrambled fighters within the first few minutes after it was reported at 8:20 that an airliner had been hijacked.  

By 9:37 when the Pentagon was hit the sky should have been filled with fighters.

Even without the fighters the Pentagon's anti missile defense systems should have protected it.

The second point is this.  How many security cameras do you suppose the Pentagon has?  More than the average convenience store I'd bet.  And all the government would have to do to prove their version of what happened is show us the film.  But they don't do that, because it never happened.  

The FBI confiscated video recordings from several private businesses near the Pentagon in the immediate aftermath of the attack.  Why?

[Sailmexico]

It is important to remember, until it is proven exactly who was behind the 9/11 attacks, if Muslim extremists were not, that our government is incredibly well infiltrated, both overtly and covertly, by Israelis.  The Mossad has operatives all over the world including the United States, in the form of nationalized citizens whose loyalty to Israel is greater than to their own country.  They are called Sayanim.

It is very possible, and in fact likely, that 9/11 was a Mossad operation.  Consider the "dancing Israelis" found filming the 9/11 attacks and then celebrating. http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html

Who are our boys really fighting for as they die in a war against the sworn enemies of Israel. I just read the book "The Other Side of Deception" by ex Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky.  In it he outlines the way in which the U.S. was tricked into bombing Libya, enemy of Israel. 

It is a bit lengthy, but I'm pasting this for those who might be interested in some truth in history.

Taken from The Other Side of Deception by Victor Ostrovsky

{p. 32} It seemed that the whole building was going berserk. Everybody and his dog were looking for information that could stop Jordan's King Hussein's efforts for a peace initiative. ...

The American Jewish community was divided into a three-stage action team. First were the individual sayanim (if the situation had been reversed and the United States had convinced Americans working in Israel to work secretly on behalf of the United States, they would be treated as spies by the Israeli government). Then there was the large pro-Israeli lobby. It would mobilize the Jewish community in a forceful effort in whatever direction the Mossad pointed them. And last was B'nai Brith. Members of that organization could be relied on to make friends among non-Jews and tarnish as anti-Semitic whomever they couldn't sway to the Israeli cause. With that sort of one-two-three tactic, there was no way we could strike out.

{p. 113} "It's the old Trojan dick trick." He lit a cigarette.

"What's that?" I couldn't help smiling; I'd never heard it called that before.

"I knew that would get your attention," he said, grinning. "Shimon activated Operation Trojan in February of this year." {the only Shimon in the index is Shimon Peres}

I nodded. I'd still been in the Mossad when that order was given, and because of my naval background and acquaintance with most of the commanders in the navy, I participated in the planning for the operation as liaison with the navy.

A Trojan was a special communication device that could be planted by naval commandos deep inside enemy territory. The device would act as a relay station for misleading transmissions made by the disinformation unit in the Mossad, called LAP {footnote: LAP: LohAma Psicologit. Psychological warfare, or, as it's known in the West, disinformation}, and intended to be received by American and British listening stations. Originating from an IDF navy ship out at sea, the prerecorded digital transmissions could be picked up only by the Trojan. The device would then rebroadcast the transmission on another frequency, one used for official business in the enemy country, at which point the transmission would finally be picked up by American ears in Britain.

The listeners would have no doubt they had intercepted a genuine communication, hence the name Trojan, reminiscent of the mythical Trojan horse. Further, the content of the messages, once deciphered, would confirm information from other intelligence sources, namely the Mossad. The only catch was that the Trojan itself would have to be located as close as possible to the normal origin of such transmissions, because of the sophisticated methods of triangulation the Americans and others would use to verify the source.

In the particular operation Ephraim was referring to, two elite units in the military had been made responsible for the delivery of the Trojan device to the proper location. One was the Matkal {footnote: Matkal: Top military reconnaissance unit of the Israeli army} reconnaissance unit and the other was Flotilla 13, the naval commandos. The

{p. 114} commandos were charged with the task of planting the Trojan device in Tripoli, Libya.

On the night of February 17-18, two Israeli missile boats, the SAAR 4-class Moledet, armed with Harpoon and Gabriel surface-to-surface missiles, among other weaponry, and the Geula, a Hohit-class mlsslle boat with a helicopter pad and regular SAAR 4-class armament, conducted what seemed like a routine patrol of the Mediterranean, heading for the Sicilian channel and passing just outside the territorial waters of Libya. Just north of Tripoli, the warships, which were visible to radar both in Tripoli and on the Italian island of Lampedusa, slowed down to about four knots - just long enough to allow a team of twelve naval commandos in four wet submarines nicknamed "pigs" and two low-profiled speedboats called "birds" to disembark. The pigs could carry two commandos each and all their fighting gear. The birds, equipped with an MG 7.62-caliber machine gun mounted over the bow and an array of antitank shoulder-carried missiles, could facilitate six commandos each, while towing the empty pigs. The birds brought the pigs as close to the shore as possible, thus cutting down the distance the pigs would have to travel on their own. (The pigs were submersible and silent but relatively slow.)

Two miles off the Libyan coast, the lights of Tripoli could be seen glistening in the southeast. Eight commandos slipped quietly into the pigs and headed for shore. The birds stayed behind at the rendezvous point, ready to take action should the situation arise. Once they reached the beach, the commandos left their cigar-like transporters submerged in the shallow water and headed inland, carrying a dark green Trojan cylinder six feet long and seven inches in diameter. It took two men to carry it.

A gray van was parked on the side of the road about one hundred feet from the water, on the coastal highway leading from Sabratah to Tripoli and on to Benghazi. There was hardly any traffic at that time of night. The driver of the van seemed to be repairing a flat tire. He stopped working as the team approached and opened the back doors of the van. He was a Mossad combatant. Without a word said, four of the men entered the van and headed for the city. The other four returned to the water, where they took a defensive position by the submerged pigs. Their job was to hold this position to ensure an escape route for the team now headed for the city.

At the same time, a squadron of Israeli fighters was refueling south of Crete, ready to assist. They were capable of keeping any ground forces away from the commandos, allowing them a not-so clean getaway. At this point, the small commando unit was divided {p. 115} into three details - its most vulnerable state. Were any of the details to run into enemy forces, they were instructed to act with extreme prejudice before the enemy turned hostile.

The van parked at the back of an apartment building on Al Jamhuriyh Street in Tripoli, less than three blocks away from the Bab al Azizia barracks that were known to house Qadhafi's headquarters and residence. By then, the men in the van had changed into civilian clothing. Two stayed with the van as lookouts and the other two helped the Mossad combatant take the cylinder to the top floor of the five-story building. The cylinder was wrapped in a carpet.

In the apartment, the top section of the cylinder was opened and a small dishlike antenna was unfolded and placed in front of the window facing north. The unit was activated, and the Trojan horse was in place.

The Mossad combatant had rented the apartment for six months and had paid the rent in advance. There was no reason for anyone except the combatant to enter the apartment. However, if someone should decide to do so, the Trojan would self-destruct, taking with it most of the upper part of the building. The three men headed back to the van and to their rendezvous with their friends on the beach.

After dropping the commandos at the beach, the combatant headed back for the city, where he would monitor the Trojan unit for the next few weeks. The commandos wasted no time and headed out to sea. They didn't want to be caught in Libyan waters at daybreak. They reached the birds and headed at full speed to a prearranged pickup coordinate, where they met with the missile boats that had brought them in.

By the end of March, the Americans were already intercepting messages broadcast by the Trojan, which was only activated during heavy communication traffic hours. Using the Trojan, the Mossad tried to make it appear that a long series of terrorist orders were being transmitted to various Libyan embassies around the world (or, as they were called by the Libyans, Peoples' Bureaus). As the Mossad had hoped, the transmissions were deciphered by the Americans and construed as ample proof that the Libyans were active sponsors of terrorism. What's more, the Americans pointed out, Mossad reports confirmed it.

The French and the Spanish, though, were not buying into the new stream of information. To them, it seemed suspicious that suddenly, out of the blue, the Libyans, who'd been extremely careful in the past, would start advertising their future actions. They also found it suspicious that in several instances Mossad reports were worded similarly

{p. 116} to coded Libyan communications. They argued further that, had there truly been after-the-fact Libyan communications regarding the attack, then the terrorist attack on the La Belle discotheque { La Belle discotheque: The terrorist attack on this location was said to have been linked to the Libyans and was the catalyst for the April 14 bombing of Libya by the Americans} in West Berlin on April 5 could have been prevented, since surely there would have been communications before, enabling intelligence agencies listening in to prevent It. Since the attack wasn't prevented, they reasoned that it must not be the Libyans who did it, and the "new communications" must be bogus. The French and the Spanish were right. The information was bogus, and the Mossad didn't have a clue who planted the bomb that killed one American serviceman and wounded several others. But the Mossad was tied in to many of the European terrorist organizations, and it was convinced that in the volatile atmosphere that had engulfed Europe, a bombing with an American victim was just a matter of time Heads of the Mossad were counting on the American promise to retaliate with vengeance against any country that could be proven to support terrorism. The Trojan gave the Americans the proof they needed. The Mossad also plugged into the equation Qadhafi's lunatic image and momentous declarations, which were really only meant for internal consumption. It must be remembered that Qadhafi had marked a line in the water at that time, closing off the Gulf of Sidra as Libyan territorial waters and calling the new maritime border the line of death (an action that didn't exactly give him a moderate image). Ultimately, the Americans fell for the Mossad ploy head over heels dragging the British and the Germans somewhat reluctantly in with them. Operation Trojan was one of the Mossad's greatest successes. It brought about the air strike on Libya that President Reagan had promised - a strike that had three important consequences. First, it derailed a deal for the release of the American hostages in Lebanon, thus preserving the Hizballah (Party of God) as the number one enemy in the eyes of the West. Second, it sent a message to the entire Arab world, telling them exactly where the United States stood regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict. Third, it boosted the Mossad's image of itself, since it was they who, by ingenious sleight of hand, had prodded the United States to do what was right. It was only the French who didn't buy into the Mossad trick and

{p. 117} were determined not to ally themselves with the aggressive American act. The French refused to allow the American bombers to fly over their territory on their way to attack Libya.

On April 14, 1986, one hundred and sixty American aircraft dropped over sixty tons of bombs on Libya. The attackers bombed Tripoli international airport, Bab al Azizia barracks, Sidi Bilal naval base, the city of Benghazi, and the Benine airfield outside Benghazi. The strike force consisted of two main bodies, one originating in England and the other from flattops in the Mediterranean. From England came twenty-four F-111s from Lakenheath, five EF-111s from Upper Heyford, and twenty-eight refueling tankers from Mildenhall and Fairford. In the attack, the air force F-111s and the EF-111s were joined by eighteen A-6 and A-7 strike and strike support aircraft, six F\A-18 fighters, fourteen EA-6B electronic jammer planes, and other support platforms. The navy planes were catapulted from the carriers Coral Sea and America. On the Libyan side, there were approximately forty civilian casualties, including Qadhafi's adopted daughter. On the American side, a pilot and his weapons officer were killed when their F-111 exploded.

After the bombing, the Hizballah broke off negotiations regarding the hostages they held in Beirut and executed three of them, including one American named Peter Kilburn. As for the French, they were rewarded for their nonparticipation in the attack by the release at the end of June of two French journalists held hostage in Beirut. (As it happened, a stray bomb hit the French embassy in Tripoli during the raid.)

Ephraim had spelled it all out for me and confirmed some of the information I'd already known. He then went on. "After the bombing of Libya, our friend Qadhafi is sure to stay out of the picture for some time. Iraq and Saddam Hussein are the next target. We're starting now to build him up as the big villain. It will take some time, but in the end, there's no doubt it'll work."

"But isn't Saddam regarded as moderate toward us, allied with Jordan, the big enemy of Iran and Syria?"

"Yes, that's why I'm opposed to this action. But that's the directive, and I must follow it. Hopefully, you and I will be done with our little operation before anything big happens. After all, we have already destroyed his nuclear facility, and we are making money by selling him technology and equipment through South Africa."

{p. 254} In the following weeks, more and more discoveries were made regarding the big gun and other elements of the Saddam war machine. The Mossad had all but saturated the intelligence field with information regarding the evil intentions of Saddam the Terrible, banking on the fact that before long, he'd have enough rope to hang himself. It was very clear what the Mossad's overall goal was. It wanted the West to do its bidding, just as the Americans had in Libya with the bombing of Qadhafi. After all, Israel didn't possess carriers and ample air power, and although it was capable of bombing a refugee camp in Tunis, that was not the same. The Mossad leaders knew that if they could make Saddam appear bad enough and a threat to the Gulf oil supply, of which he'd been the protector up to that point, then the United States and its allies would not let him get away with anything, but would take measures that would all but eliminate his army and his weapons potential, especially if they were led to believe that this might just be their last chance before he went nuclear.

[Diane Amberg]

My my, you have been busy since I left to make a big pan of apple crisp for a nice neighbor. The one thing I have learned since I went back and reread all the posts is how amusing it is to see you disagree with each other and yet you are each POSTIVE you know all about 9-11 and how it all happened. But no matter what I say it has to be wrong, even if I wasn't the one who said it.  When one reads extreme writing not based on plausible evidence, errors can happen since the authors don't check their stories with each other. Four planes, two planes and two missiles, shot down, not shot down  Many people, no people, full planes, empty planes, wired buildings or not, dogs, no dogs. Lets see where do I start. Mr Sail. I never said the PA plane was a 747, at least I don't think I did,, since it was a 757 and I did say very clearly that I had questions about the incident. You are correct in that I did misread that it was empty, but you are saying that the others were empty? So the nearly 150 people who died in those didn't exist? Their names that are read  each year on 911 are fake? Their families that show up are all actors and have come back for 9 years?  That Bush would attack the Pentagon? His own Military? Perhaps the Capitol or his own White House?Also you didn't lose me in the physics of the bowling ball,and all. It's just I don't see the connection.There are too may variables. Not all the floors on the towers were the same, but all were connected to the curtain walls the same.The floors weren't empty.They had furniture and all manner of stuff would be falling and burning and shifting. The windows, 18 inches wide, did indeed blow out as the building came down, which in itself would change the equation as air pressure in the building changed from down to sideways and so on. Your examples took none of that into account.  So now the Jews did it? I wondered which of you would make that comment, it was just a matter of time. Now if you said Rumsfeld did it I might consider it. GRRRR!
   You said I'm not a pilot...are you sure?  You people only know what I've told you. Ya ever hear of the Civil Air Patrol? There is a wing right over in New Castle at the air base and another in Dover. One of my best girl friends went to college on a CAP scholarship. And my father was a pilot, loved planes and got his license right there in Howard. My lips are sealed. As far as 9-11 is concerned you'll get to rehash every bit next year.
Mr. Sail, I don't recall ever saying that the steel, or iron "melted"on the Twin Towers. I've been to a number of warehouse fires where the steel buckled, stretched, lost its strength, warped and could no longer do its job, so things fell , but never "melted,"so your truck photos didn't show me anything new. I said it was the aluminum skin that melted and flowed down the building, I  can't help what others said they thought they saw. I've toured a couple of steel mills over the years, back when they were still operating, and know what a Bessemer furnace is, so I know a little about the process and the alloys etc.  I know more about it from the fire side. At about 1500 degrees steel starts to fail, but  it begins  at much lower temps.
Taking Al out to dinner now.BYE