Building doesn't collapse

[Varmit]

Maybe its just me but I thought that after 9/11 it was established that all high rise buildings will collapse after a fire??


China Skyscraper Fire Kill 42, Does Not Collapse    MSNBC
November 15, 2010

Editor's note: According to the official government version of physics, steel structure buildings routinely collapse after catching fire.

SHANGHAI, China — Flames engulfed a high-rise apartment building in Shanghai on Monday, killing 42 people, injuring dozens more and forcing some residents to jump from their windows to escape, according to reports.

The 28-story building in the Jing'an District of the Chinese city was being renovated when a fire broke out at 2 p.m. local time (1 a.m. ET), the state-run Xinhua News Agency reported.

A witness said building materials caught fire, then spread to scaffolding and then to the building, which housed many retired teachers, Xinhua reported.

The fire appeared to have been put out about six hours later, and firefighters could be seen removing bodies from the building.

The death toll was initially put at at least eight, but later Xinhua reported that 42 people had been killed.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40190224/ns/world_news-asia-pacific?gt1=43001

[Teresa]

I'd say something like "watch this video and learn the truth" but anyone who really wanted to know the truth would have done it by now. So... to the few members of the choir, those of us who don't need more proof, this video is interesting because an ordinary citizen is doing what serious investigators should have done; would have done if they were looking for the truth instead of trying to hide it.

[Varmit]

And yet people will still say that it was Muslim extremists.  And for a while I was quilty of the same.  But wht boggoles my mind the most is people will say that they don't trust our gov't, except on this one issue.


BTW Teresa, that was one of the best videos on the subject I've seen yet.

[Diane Amberg]

Uh, then why bother with the planes? Why would George Bush coordinate such a thing? Why don't people talk to the fire service and the engineers and the architect who built it. Actually, he did do a program explaining what happened.  I saw it and wish I could find it again. How could a group of people get access to the internal workings of the building with enough materials long enough to pull it off? It's a very secure building and has been since it was bombed the first time in 1993. Everybody has seen the shows on demolitions dropping old buildings in their own tracks.That takes a lot of planning, days of wiring, setting the demolition materials, cutting support beams, drilling holes etc. And that is on totally empty building with no people, no furnishings n nothing. It's a big process!. Has anybody asked them for their opinion on what it would take to bring down the towers?
Why  did the Muslim extremists who took credit for the whole thing  later say they didn't expect them to fall down? What about the other planes? Why just one bombing and not the Pentagon and the White House too? If they could access the one they could access the others.
They came down because of the way they were designed...never expected the attack of planes to upset the hanging design of the whole building hanging inside the framework. By the way the molton stuff coming down the sides was proven to be the aluminum skin, not steel. Some of the temps mentioned were accurate as far as it went, but there are a lot of factors that cause metals to go above and below "melt rates" during an uncontrolled situation like that was. As far as I know nobody has ever said that all high rise buildings fall down if they catch on fire. That is totally false. Many people heard "explosions"on 911.  Sure, very common, but not from bombs. It's from the fire itself as it blows out windows and reaches fresh air and pockets of air. That's what causes flash overs and back drafts. I really don't understand why some people need to believe that our Gov't, especially George Bush crafted that incident. Why,why,why?

[Varmit]

Short answer is that without 9/11 we wouldn't have the war in Iraq...Duh!

[Diane Amberg]

So 343 firefighters and a lot of other innocent people had to die needlessly? So attack Sadam for some other reason! He could have just lied about wmd threats or something else and gotten the job done. Sorry, I just can't buy that. George Bush is supposed to be a good Christian man with good Christian values. He could set those aside that easily? I just can't accept that. An entire war that has cost mind boggling amounts, has accomplished very little and has gone on for what seems like forever? 

[kshillbillys]

Was the fire in China caused by a big ass jet carrying roughly 150-200 passengers, 4600 gallons of fuel, with a 900,000 pound takeoff weight, slamming in between the 60th and 80th floor of a building thats 110 stories tall, slamming into the building at 200 mph? Your building was 28 stories, with my figuring and I am not the brightest of bright, that leaves 30 floors of the WTC, making it still 2 floors bigger than your building, above a weakened structure. With all that weight on top of the weakened structure slamming down and the heat from 4600 gallons of jet fuel burning for 45 minutes at 2000 degrees, I wonder why the son of a bitch collapsed. I wonder why your supposedly super thermite didn't cut the beams and cause it to instantly collapse, not 45 minutes later. I have watched both sides go back and forth but I'm not siding with the kooks that talk about super thermite, that no one had ever heard of until 9/11. I did watch an episode where they took 200 pounds of pure thermite to a metal beam that was preloaded with a ton of weight and it was unable to melt the beam, thus enters your argument that it wasn't thermite, it was super thermite. The plane that struck the Pentagon made a nice round hole. The conspiracy on this was that it was not a plane but a missle because of the round hole. But the security camera caught a plane and some plane fragments. I suppose the CIA planted the plane fragments. Flight 93, just a hole, nothing else, in a field in Pennsylvania was caused by an explosion. Well, no shit. If these planes did not crash like they say, into the Pentagon or a field in Pennsylvania, then where did all the people go that were on these flights and the planes themselves? I do not, and WILL NOT, think that our government would deliberately kill 3000 of our own citizens just to go to war to get Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden, as someone had said. They do not need to kill in order to declare war.

Of course the Muslim extremists didn't do it. Ahmadinejad, aka Uncle Tom, a nut case from Iran, who wants everybody who is not Muslim dead, says that the US Government pulled this off to start war against the "peaceful" Muslims. He also stated that Germany never committed atrocities against the Jews. I don't follow this nut case and it is amazing how this pops up again after Jesse Ventura comes back with a new season of Conspiracy Theories. There's a reason why they call it THEORY, if you can prove it, then it's no longer a THEORY.--Robert (these are my thoughts, the way I remember them from 9/11)


P.S. Don't want you pissed off at me Teresa. And Billy, you're demoted from dump truck to wheelbarrow.

[Varmit]

Uh, then why bother with the planes?

Because the majority of folks wouldn't have bought a "bomb" scenrio, just ask around, they still don't.

Why would George Bush coordinate such a thing?

1) to set in motion the invasion of iraq
2) to implement the Patriot Act, giving the federal gov't the authority to spy on whoever they wanted without having to worry about Due process, the constitution, or anything else
3) to set in place the groundwork neccessary to instill the biggest defense budget in human history

Why don't people talk to the fire service and the engineers and the architect who built it. Actually, he did do a program explaining what happened.  I saw it and wish I could find it again.

Impossile. The guy who built the thing, Minoru Yamasaki, died February 7, 1986.  His firm, Yamasaki & Associates, closed on December 31, 2009.

How could a group of people get access to the internal workings of the building with enough materials long enough to pull it off? It's a very secure building and has been since it was bombed the first time in 1993. Everybody has seen the shows on demolitions dropping old buildings in their own tracks.That takes a lot of planning, days of wiring, setting the demolition materials, cutting support beams, drilling holes etc.

Simple, flash a gov't badge, bring in a work crew, set up and ready in a matter of hours.  The planning doesn't take that long.  A demo expert (sf trained) could do it in  a matter of hours.

Why  did the Muslim extremists who took credit for the whole thing  later say they didn't expect them to fall down?

cite your sources

What about the other planes? Why just one bombing and not the Pentagon and the White House too? If they could access the one they could access the others.

Pentagon was hit.  The other plane was supposededly brought down by passengers.  Why?  Why not engage the auto-pilot?

They came down because of the way they were designed...never expected the attack of planes to upset the hanging design of the whole building hanging inside the framework. By the way the molton stuff coming down the sides was proven to be the aluminum skin, not steel.

Or so the story goes.  Seems fishy to me.  I mean, molten aluminum, pours out the window only seconds after the crash.  So the fire reached temps high enough to melt the airplane skin in mere seconds?  Doubtful.  As for the fire upsetting the hanging design...doesn't hold water.  Why wasn't the hanging designed upset in 1975 when a fire set on the 11th floor, spread to 6 other floors, and burned for three hours?  This taking place before the added security and safety features that were installed after the '93 bombing attempt?

As far as I know nobody has ever said that all high rise buildings fall down if they catch on fire. That is totally false.

No its not.  That is the "offical" story given.  That the Towers came down because of the fire.  That is what the public was led to believe.

Many people heard "explosions"on 911.  Sure, very common, but not from bombs. It's from the fire itself as it blows out windows and reaches fresh air and pockets of air. That's what causes flash overs and back drafts. I really don't understand why some people need to believe that our Gov't, especially George Bush crafted that incident. Why,why,why?

Really?  You ever heard of a silent bomb??...Me neither.  I don't understand why some people can't see the truth when it is as plain as the nose on their face.

[Varmit]

Was the fire in China caused by a big ass jet carrying roughly 150-200 passengers, 4600 gallons of fuel, with a 900,000 pound takeoff weight, slamming in between the 60th and 80th floor of a building thats 110 stories tall, slamming into the building at 200 mph? Your building was 28 stories, with my figuring and I am not the brightest of bright, that leaves 30 floors of the WTC, making it still 2 floors bigger than your building, above a weakened structure. With all that weight on top of the weakened structure slamming down and the heat from 4600 gallons of jet fuel burning for 45 minutes at 2000 degrees,

Nope. The building in China wasn't hit by a plane.  But it and just about every other high rise to catch fire in the last 100 years didn't collapse, even after burning longer than the WTC.  Also, the WTC fire didn't burn at 2000 degrees for 45 minutes.  Physically impossible. Espcially when we consider that the Open Air burning temp. of jet fuel is roughly 549.5 °F. At first, it might have reached 2000 but that temp. would have dropped as fuel was consumed.

I wonder why the son of a bitch collapsed. I wonder why your supposedly super thermite didn't cut the beams and cause it to instantly collapse, not 45 minutes later.

I wonder why it collapsed myself.  Considering that the temps produced by that fire would not have exceeded those necessary to melt steel beams, either at the  point of impact or further away.

I have watched both sides go back and forth but I'm not siding with the kooks that talk about super thermite, that no one had ever heard of until 9/11. I did watch an episode where they took 200 pounds of pure thermite to a metal beam that was preloaded with a ton of weight and it was unable to melt the beam, thus enters your argument that it wasn't thermite, it was super thermite.

I also saw that expirment.  The problem is that the thermite was place in plastic bags.  Thus allowing the thermite to expand in all directions, it wasn't concentrated.  Kinda like holding a firecracker in your hand, if your hand is flat then you will recieve only minimal burns, close your hand and it gets blown off.

The plane that struck the Pentagon made a nice round hole. The conspiracy on this was that it was not a plane but a missle because of the round hole. But the security camera caught a plane and some plane fragments. I suppose the CIA planted the plane fragments.

Really?  I haven't seen any footage showing a Boeing 757 crashing into the pentagon, in fact...

Flight 93, just a hole, nothing else, in a field in Pennsylvania was caused by an explosion. Well, no shit.

Okay, then answer me this..What other plane crash in the history of plane crashes didn't leave debris from the plane?  In fact, what other plane crash only left a hole in the ground and didn't string out debris for several hundred yards??  Answer...not a single one.

If these planes did not crash like they say, into the Pentagon or a field in Pennsylvania, then where did all the people go that were on these flights and the planes themselves? I do not, and WILL NOT, think that our government would deliberately kill 3000 of our own citizens just to go to war to get Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Laden, as someone had said. They do not need to kill in order to declare war.

I don't know where the people went.  Considering the history of our gov't I wouldn't put anything past them.  Bush needed a reason to go to war that the american people would get behind.  He couldn't just go all willy-nilly like. 

Of course the Muslim extremists didn't do it. Ahmadinejad, aka Uncle Tom, a nut case from Iran, who wants everybody who is not Muslim dead, says that the US Government pulled this off to start war against the "peaceful" Muslims. He also stated that Germany never committed atrocities against the Jews. I don't follow this nut case and it is amazing how this pops up again after Jesse Ventura comes back with a new season of Conspiracy Theories. There's a reason why they call it THEORY, if you can prove it, then it's no longer a THEORY.--Robert (these are my thoughts, the way I remember them from 9/11)

Uncle Tom didn't come up this "theory", Americans did.  He just went along with it.  And this didn't just pop up because of Ventura, people have been looking for the truth since this begun.

P.S. Don't want you pissed off at me Teresa. And Billy, you're demoted from dump truck to wheelbarrow.

All that being said Robert...I ain't trying to start nothing, just giving my opinion.  As far as being demoted...I think I would rather "drive" a wheelbarrel than that orange piece of bone jarring, kidney rattleing, single axle, pain in the ass to dump hunk of scrap!

[Varmit]

Kind of off topic, but I thought it fit...turn your sound down if you have kids around.