What Handouts To Cut

[Patriot]

 Patriot, why do you and several others on here assume that we ordinary forum members don't know that SS is a Ponzi? It has been a kind of Ponzi since the beginning, but not quite that simple. (FDR.) It was assumed that families would keep having lots of kids who would grow up to pay in so the pot would grow ever bigger than would ever be paid out month to month. (Yes, families should take care of each other but most don't.) That would have worked, but families stopped having as many kids, and then congress decided to raid the trust fund (surplus) with the promise to pay it back. As far as I know SS still has all those IOUs. Now that the boomers  are retiring the income and out go is catching up.  SS is NOT a Ponzi in the sense that SS funds are invested.  In true Ponzis there is no money ever invested at all.

1.  I'm assuming nothing.  Just a definition.  Why would you label 'others' as ordinary.  Sounded a bit demeaning in two directions.
2.  If you know it's a 'kind of ponzi', then you know a ponzi is theft by deception.  Why defend it as something else?
3.  We all know into what 'ass u me' breaks down.  Most government 'assumptions'  fall far short of real world outcomes.  Really helps with trust building.
4.  It is not government's place to take from me under penalty of law to take care of other peoples lack of moral obligaton to their families.
5.  The current IOU balance is about $1.8 TRILLION.  How's that for honest dealing?
6.  Now that boomers are retiring we can see the reality of government misappropriation, mismanagement and faulty assumptions.
7.  I'm not sure any 'investing' was/is done with SS funds either.  Just a take from A and pass a portion to B.  Ponzi (theft by deception) pure and simple.

[srkruzich]

4.  It is not government's place to take from me under penalty of law to take care of other peoples lack of moral obligaton to their families.

You know you should be saying under penalty of death. Because if you don't pay them they come with guns and take everything you have and if you still resist they will kill you.

7.  I'm not sure any 'investing' was/is done with SS funds either.  Just a take from A and pass a portion to B.  Ponzi (theft by deception) pure and simple.

SS used to be paid a whopping 2% interest til cllinton. Then he manipulated the paper. I forget how he did it, something to the tune of paying off old debt at higher interest and reissuing debt at less than 1% interest on the SS fund. That is how he supposedly balanced the budget.  

ok i remember, i think the SS program tosses the money into Govt bonds, and at the time the bonds were paying 2 -3% interest. So he closed the high paying bonds then reissued new ones at 1%

[Patriot]

You know you should be saying under penalty of death. Because if you don't pay them they come with guns and take everything you have and if you still resist they will kill you.

Didn't wanna offend those with more affinity for government than we have.

[Diane Amberg]

Patriot, I wasn't defending anything, I don't need to...just showing you that I know darn well what a real Ponzi is, as do most people on here. As far as Gov't goes, why do you think I support it?  I vote and hope just like everyone else and I'm usually disappointed just like everyone else. Fortunately, I'm independent and able to take care of myself comfortably. I don't have to keep banging the "get rid of 'em bell" over and over and over. I get it already! I hope the Repubs. and hard core conservatives DO win the Go'vt back. I can't wait to hear all the excuses when they can't fix '' it" either.The lobbyists will still be there.The congress will just have new pockets to fill with cash and favors, and life will chug along for better or worse just as usual. Big business and money will talk just as it always has. You six will rant and rave about something and try to read things into posts that aren't there as always, because that's what you seem to need to do. Some of us will try to have views that will be slammed just because you can get away with it. Ho Hum ....   SSDD

[greatguns]

Yes I do know what your words were.  I was just covering your cronies so I wouldn't have to later.  Keep up the great work.

[greatguns]

While we are discussing the elderly getting the money that we are paying in to SS, I'm wondering how many on here are drawing down disability because of their bad health.

[Wilma]

Diane, my SS check is the same as my husband's would be if he were still living.  I am drawing on his account to make up the difference between what mine pays and what his would have paid.  In other words, my widow's share of my husband's account is not half of his check.  It is the full amount.  I hope it isn't different now.  I wouldn't mind having twice what I am getting.

srkruzich,  I know I have no right to ask and you have the privilege of declining to answer, but just where does your income come from?

Varmit,  how is making me pay property taxes that are used to pay your wages any different than withholding SS from your pay check to pay SS recipients?

[srkruzich]

Diane, my SS check is the same as my husband's would be if he were still living.  I am drawing on his account to make up the difference between what mine pays and what his would have paid.  In other words, my widow's share of my husband's account is not half of his check.  It is the full amount.  I hope it isn't different now.  I wouldn't mind having twice what I am getting.

srkruzich,  I know I have no right to ask and you have the privilege of declining to answer, but just where does your income come from?

Varmit,  how is making me pay property taxes that are used to pay your wages any different than withholding SS from your pay check to pay SS recipients?

I draw my SSDI, as well as whatever i can make selling this that and the other.   I can assure anyone out there that thinks i just want to lay around and collect SS that i would rather be making a living than surviving on what i get.  I am working toward that end to make it so that5 i won't need SS anymore.

[Varmit]

Varmit,  how is making me pay property taxes that are used to pay your wages any different than withholding SS from your pay check to pay SS recipients?

Oh come on now Wilma...you said it yourself gov't has to be financed.  It sucks, but thats the way it is.  It is understood that when you purchase certain properties that you will be required to pay certain taxes.  Those taxes go to provide certain services (fire, police, DOT, etc).  Now, if you think that the taxes in a certain area are too high then you can opt to relocate.  Or simply not purchase said properties, rent instead of own your home for example.  Thats Constitutional.  Social Security doesn't work that way.  There is no Constitutional provision that allows the Federal gov't to take income form one person and give it to another. 

[Wilma]

Doesn't that apply to taxes as well?  Were all the taxes we pay a part of the Constitution or just how did they come about?  Wasn't SS made a part of the law just like other laws have been done?  Passage by Congress and signed by the president?  I just don't understand your rant against SS taxes, but not against income tax, property tax, sales tax, beer tax, cigarette tax, etc.

Let's look at it a different way.  You say that SS is against the law, that you have no choice but to pay it.  Tell me this.  You have a car.  You pay for insurance for the car.  Why?  It is the law that you carry certain insurance on your vehicles.  The law forces you to pay for that insurance.  You will probably never get any of that money back.  Yet you are not ranting about paying the premiums, are you?  With SS, you will at least get part of it back, maybe all, plus.

You say you have no choice whether you pay into SS.  You have no choice about paying income tax, property tax, sales tax, beer tax, cigarette tax, etc.  Social Security is insurance against poverty when you become too old to work or unable to work.  The time that family takes care of family is past.  It used to be that Mother was home all day and could care for Grandma.  Today, Mother has to work as well and there is no one at home to care for poor old Grandma.  Poor old Grandma has Alzheimer's and doesn't even know who she is, let alone why she shouldn't walk down the middle of the road in heavy traffic.