And Divided We are......

[pamagain]

As for not having to be led in prayer, are you saying that your family never says a prayer before a meal, at a funeral, etc?  That each of you says your own?  Not judging just curoius?

apples and oranges........and yeah I tend to tune out whoever is talkin and have my own conversation with God. I pray in silence. There is nothin ges on my nerves like listenin to somebody repeat themselves 400 times before they get around to amen.

Actually, my statement was exactly right.  Tell me, when were the rates of unwed teenage mothers higher, nowadays or 50 years ago?

actually....proportionately it's not really that much higher.

As for the clothing issue, I guess that depends on a persons idea of tasteful.   

Pretty sure my idea of tasteful is at LEAST as good as yours.

[Varmit]

Varmit,
I'm curious as to what your solution would be concerning these things you consider immoral - pornographers/those who watch porn, homosexuals, underage pregnant girls, etc.

Simple, a return to the Biblical principals and morals given to us by God.  Not just in our society but in our homes as well.  Have the things you mentioned always been around? Yes.  But not on such a widespread, accepted scale as they are today.  We, as a society, have this misguided idea that these things are ok, and they are not.  Pornography is not art or a form of self expression...its filth, plain and simple.  It is harmful, not only spiritually but to families and marriages as well.  Unwed mothers are nothing more than a product of a spiritually and Biblically bankrupt upbringing.  Instead of teaching our children why they should wait, according to the Scriptures, we give them condoms.  Homosexuality is an an abomination before God.  Romans 1:24-27 pretty much says it all.  If we as a nation, would simply turn back to God and His laws we would not only see the number of these things decrease, but also a prosperity in this country like never before. 

[Diane Amberg]

Varmit, I wonder how many girls get pregnant who WERE taught right from wrong, went to church, heard it over and over from both parents and fooled around anyway and got caught. There are parents who who would tar you and tape you up on a door if they heard you accuse them of the morally bankrupt upbringing of their children!  There are many, many parents who do the best they know how and their sons or daughters succumb to the urges anyway, with the boys, (no, not always) leading the uneducated charge.
Just like "empty guns" sometimes kill people, and people run red lights and stop signs and kill people with and without texting, cell phoning and alcohol involved. Isn't murder, homicide, manslaughter by vehicle, just as morally bankrupt and as much of a sin as premarital sex? Both change lives forever!  Why are some people so quick to judge? Who put them in charge? So we stop giving out condoms (I'm not crazy about it myself) to prevent unwanted children and STDs, shall we stop teaching our children to drive too, because they might kill someone?  Don't give out condoms and stop sex education. Stop drivers ed classes and stop giving out the car keys until the kids are much older and more responsible. Hey, sounds like a plan! No? Ya know why not? Because many parents can't wait until the kids can drive and they don't have to haul them around any more! Do they talk about the moral aspects of driving responsibly or just the mechanical aspects of making the car go? Is the same young person who is positive they can text and drive at the same time safely, the same one who is sure they can manage sex without protection? Does the Bible or the Constitution say anything about responsible driving? No? Perhaps we should stop judging and help each other figure it out! It only takes one slip to make a child and one slip up to commit vehicular homicide.

[Roma Jean Turner]

Appreciate how you feel about the prayer Pam.  My great Uncle John used to say that most people pray like classical music.  Just about the time you think it's going to end.....it starts up all over again.   I never say a prayer in public, without remembering that.

[srkruzich]

Varmit, I wonder how many girls get pregnant who WERE taught right from wrong, went to church, heard it over and over from both parents and fooled around anyway and got caught. There are parents who who would tar you and tape you up on a door if they heard you accuse them of the morally bankrupt upbringing of their children!  There are many, many parents who do the best they know how and their sons or daughters succumb to the urges anyway, with the boys, (no, not always) leading the uneducated charge.

Thats his point.  Its hard enough for kids who are raised right to deal with it, those kids who aren't, have no chance.  And come on, all this bs of government intervention in the sexual reproduction of humans kids, and all is nothing more than destruction of family.  By PP and government interference, they usurp parental authority.  Time to put government in its place. by any means necessary.

Just like "empty guns" sometimes kill people,

I've never heard of a empty gun.  where did you hear that?   Whoever told you that is a fool.

Does the Bible or the Constitution say anything about responsible driving? No? Perhaps we should stop judging and help each other figure it out! It only takes one slip to make a child and one slip up to commit vehicular homicide.

I have more of a problem with the wholesale murder of children done every year than i do with a pregnancy.   Funny that you mention murder.... Its apparantly not as bad as we think you know, they do it to the tune of over 50 million in the last 30 years.  50 million. thats 1/6 of the population of our country that has been murdered.  And you think peoples moral compass is ok???  sheesh

[Diane Amberg]

I said Vehicular Homicide...that's things with wheels that go around? Stay with me Steve, the subject was out of wedlock kids and kids with poor driving skills, and being judgemental, not abortion. Besides, someone on here said the only ones who got murdered needed killing. Sex ed in schools was demanded by parents who belonged to groups who wanted kids to learn better ways for those who weren't taking responsibility at home. It didn't just suddenly spring from some superentendent's head. Lots of discussion and in some areas,voting. They don't want it any more? Then petition the school boards with facts and figures to support that kids aren't getting pregnant anymore and the parents are doing a fine job. It should be specific to each school district. Parents doing a poor job? Kids getting pregnant left and right?  Keep it in the schools, or take it to church. How about sex ed in Sunday school? Don't like abortion? Change the law. If parents aren't being parents then there is no "Parental Authority." Besides parents can always sign not to have kids take controversial classes such as sex ed. Or they can here. There was another unloaded weapon killing a few days a go. Nine year old was playing with his fathers "empty" gun and killed his two year old brother.
As far as real murder, keep the moral compass comments to the specific and don't generalize.That's deep in the areas of urban decay that decent people try to stay out of. They have a moral compass, but it's not like ours. They kill because it's how they've solved problems for years. Little and medium towns won't have the problem until the drug lords move in. You can wave Bibles at them all you want and it won't change a thing. by the way, a couple of books Al thought you might like. Citizens of London by Lynne Olson. Interesting WWII stuff and  FDR's Deadly Secret, by Steven Lomazow MD and Eric Fettman. More about FDR's illness.

[pamagain]

LOL Roma......he was SO right!

Here I go....out on a limb again .......oh well. Solution to sexual education or lack thereof..............1. QUIT havin a cow...it's a natural bodily process that if God REALLY didn't want us to have we WOULDN'T.

2 QUIT havin a cow.........I'm pretty sure every last one of you was a teenager at some point in time, IF you are honest I bet VERY few of you made it to marriage before any sex of any kind.

3 QUIT havin a cow and have a REALISTIC conversation with your sons and daughters about the HORMONAL urges they are gonna have instead of labelin them EVIL for even havin the thoughts to start with and tellin them they are fallin short for BEING NORMAL. FOREWARNED IS FOREARMED.

4. QUIT HAVIN A COW!!!!!!!!!!!!! TELL them about condoms ETCETERA so if they DO decide to "give in to their lower nature" ( can't even say that with a straight face it's SO retarded) you won't HAVE a daughter who HIDES from you and sneaks for an abortion or hides from you until she CAN'T anymore and runs away rather than face your "JUDGEMENT" of her "SIN".


5. BE AN ADULT AND A PARENT THEY CAN TRUST INSTEAD OF A JUDGEMENTAL A^%HOLE.

[srkruzich]

I said Vehicular Homicide...that's things with wheels that go around? Stay with me Steve,

I think you need to stay with me diane, YOU SAID "Isn't murder, homicide, manslaughter by vehicle, just as morally bankrupt"

As far as real murder, keep the moral compass comments to the specific and don't generalize.That's deep in the areas of urban decay that decent people try to stay out of. They have a moral compass, but it's not like ours. They kill because it's how they've solved problems for years. Little and medium towns won't have the problem until the drug lords move in. You can wave Bibles at them all you want and it won't change a thing. by the way, a couple of books Al thought you might like. Citizens of London by Lynne Olson. Interesting WWII stuff and  FDR's Deadly Secret, by Steven Lomazow MD and Eric Fettman. More about FDR's illness.

Uhmm drug lords need killing. There is a difference you know.  The 10 commandments only condemned murder.

[Varmit]

Diane, I never said that it would compeletly eliminate the problem but it would cut it down dramatically.  As for the taring and taping, I don't doubt it, doesn't make what I said any less true.  Unless they are bringing up their children according to Gods word then they are NOT doing their best.  As for the driving example you gave, with the exception of when alchol is involved, I would say no.  A person that is texting and causes an accident that kills someone did not intentionally set out to commit murder.  A child that is brought up properly knows that premarital sex is wrong and that to engage in it is a sin against God.  The difference is that one was an accident the other is intentional.  Children don't need condoms, they need a strong foundation and faith in God.  As for the sexual education in schools, voting and all that is great when the school boards actually listen to what parents say.  Take for example the latest incident in Montanna.  The school board along Planned Parenthood wanted to introduce sexual education to children as young as kindergardeners.  When the children are at the age of 10, they wanted to "educate" them on the numerous ways that people can actually engage in sexual activity, i.e. positions.  Including the mechanics of homosexual behavior. 

As for the "moral compass" comment he wasn't generalizing.  Anyone that supports abortion has no morals.  And as for this one....

You can wave Bibles at them all you want and it won't change a thing.

You're right.  Just waving the Bible and quoting scripture won't change anything.  Not until realize the truth about what God offers and what He can do.  It takes parents raising their children into strong christians, it takes a return to the Biblical principals of absolute truths. 

Pam...quit having a cow, God gave very specific instructions as to when people should engage in sex.  That is ONLY after they were married.

2.  Quit having a cow....I don't know about you but I actually want my kids to do better than I did. 
3.  Quit having a cow...No one said that a person is EVIL for having natural urges.  And yes, parents should talk about them with their children and arm them with the ways to deal with them. 

4.  Quit having a cow...part of being a parent IS being judgemental about the decisions they make.

[Wilma]

We could solve this by putting all the girls in chastity belts until after they are married, don't you think?