4 day school week.

[Varmit]

Pam and Diane, you totally missed the point of what I was getting at.  By "Bootcamp" I wasn't implying that children need be indoctrinated into anything.  Just the discipline aspect of it.  You show up at school in uniform, on time, ready to go to work.  And that includes the teachers.  The day starts with an hour of P.T. (teachers also) followed by "real" classes.  No home ec., no study hall!  Teachers are to be addressed properly and with respect, as are the students.  Awards and recognition are given to those students that EARN them.  And the standard is set high, you don't achieve it you don't pass.  You don't lower the standard to the point that there is no real achievement. 

[pamagain]

  I understand bootcamp dude. I grew up that way. I never lipped off at my elders. I also learned respect is not OWED except basic... you EARN it......and yes it IS just as much an indoctrination as any other...its just the one you choose to use.

I have been on the outside of what is considered the norm and I have colored INSIDE the lines...........Indoctrination of ANY kind repells me......I am one of those people that the harder you push or pull the more likely I am to "take to the hills" I'll still get there but it wont be by any road YOU know.

I have fought the school uniform thing since my kids got in school, I will continue to fight it for my grandkids, I do not think round pegs in round holes do anybody any good......give me a square peg anytime......specially if they fight to STAY square

[jerry wagner]

  I understand bootcamp dude. I grew up that way. I never lipped off at my elders. I also learned respect is not OWED except basic... you EARN it......and yes it IS just as much an indoctrination as any other...its just the one you choose to use.

I have been on the outside of what is considered the norm and I have colored INSIDE the lines...........Indoctrination of ANY kind repells me......I am one of those people that the harder you push or pull the more likely I am to "take to the hills" I'll still get there but it wont be by any road YOU know.

I have fought the school uniform thing since my kids got in school, I will continue to fight it for my grandkids, I do not think round pegs in round holes do anybody any good......give me a square peg anytime......specially if they fight to STAY square

Couldn't agree more with the uniform statement....

Also, home ec is an excellent thing to teach in school.... there are more than just a few subjects that should be taught in school.

[srkruzich]

  I understand bootcamp dude. I grew up that way. I never lipped off at my elders. I also learned respect is not OWED except basic... you EARN it......and yes it IS just as much an indoctrination as any other...its just the one you choose to use.

Respect is demanded and required of children towards adults.   There is no earning it.  I don't care if my kid likes someone or not, they were NEVER EVER allowed to disrespect an adult, there was NO quarter given if one of my kids disrespected an adult.  IF they did, they usually got work detail at home that would make a marine cry, and then they were to write up a appology in writing, and explain their actions in writing to the person they disrespected.  Not only that they had to go face the adult and apologize while handing their written apology to them. 

Even today, my kids are in their 20's almost hitting 30's, and they still respect their elders. 

[srkruzich]

Couldn't agree more with the uniform statement....

Also, home ec is an excellent thing to teach in school.... there are more than just a few subjects that should be taught in school.

LOL well home ec was one of those easy courses you took to keep your gpa up when you were taking a rather difficult course like bio-chemistry, or calculus. 
But i knew how to cook, sew, can, and grow my own food long before home ec class was even available to me.

[Diane Amberg]

You are describing Newark Charter.Yes, they have uniforms but they don't all look alike,There are long and short sleeved golf shirts in about 10 colors with the school logo on it, Khaki pants or skirts  (don't say it!)  and the kids choose which colors they wear each day. They do march down the hall without a peep but keeping in line is easy. We built the school with contrasting tiles on the hall floors to make a line to walk on. The kids understand that quiet in the halls is to respect other classes and the lines are for safety.   Respect is not a problem, period, and it goes both ways.( when did "disrespect" become a verb!) The teachers are tops and the kids work very hard to be the best they can, but it's done with love, not hitting. By the way, you drop Home Ec. Shop has to go too!  They are both good classes. Applied science and math are used in both. We don't have an hour of pt, but the buildings are three floors, and recesses and gym are very active times.

[pamagain]

Respect is demanded and required of children towards adults.   There is no earning it.  I don't care if my kid likes someone or not, they were NEVER EVER allowed to disrespect an adult

basic respect as due any human......I've known plenty of adults who didn't deserve my respect above or beyond that,OR my kids respect. I gave my kids the common sense to know when an adult was somebody they COULD/SHOULD tell to take off. You and I differ on this. My kids are 31, 29, and 18. They respect their elders as in being POLITE whether they like em or not but as far as what I consider respect ( as in somebody to aspire to or to look up to) that is given when it is earned.

TOO many perverts use kids being taught never to question the authority of adults as a way to get AT kids. So NO I'm not sorry I gave my kids the leeway to learn the difference. Period.

[Catwoman]

OK...I've been a good girl as long as I can stand it on this thread...I have nothing to say about the homeschooling or unschooling element...But I do have something to say regarding the aspect of respect within the classroom...

I have never demanded the respect of my children...I have always commanded the respect of my children...There's a huge difference between those two.  I deport myself in such a way, both in the classroom and out in public, that I raise the bar high for my students.  I first treat THEM with respect.  Before a child will care what you think, they have to first believe that YOU CARE.  I believe in forging a bond between myself and my students.  It is only after I have that bond that real learning occurs...Because it is at that point that the kids have accepted that I care for them unconditionally and they aren't worried about whatever censure they might have to face from me.  It is at that point that the kids really kick into high gear and start showing what it is that they are REALLY able to do...And I just sit there and smile.     You cannot browbeat children into learning.  You cannot bribe them into learning.  You have to lead them into learning...I am a mentor...I am a confidante...I am a friend...I am a teacher.  Those who can, teach...Those who can't, talk about it.

[pamagain]

 Exactly Cat!

[Diane Amberg]

Thanks Cat! Deportment? I don't think anybody knows what that is any more. Thank goodness you think and speak like a teacher! Your kids must adore you. Kids will usually reach for the goals we set, even though they may not be the same for each child.  Teaching by intimidation and fear doesn't cut it with me.