What Our Constitution Permits...

[redcliffsw]

John Adams warned, "A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." I am all too afraid that's where our nation stands today and the blame lies with the American people.
-Walter Williams
http://www.lewrockwell.com/williams-w/w-williams66.1.html

[twirldoggy]

I do agree with the broad premises of the article.  But because I have worked in mental health, I have seen the problems of the mentally ill and the families of mentally ill.  I think that the Missouri State government has abandoned the mentally ill causing the deaths of many people.  I feel that federal , state and local agencies have to reach out to those that  absolutely cannot take care of themselves.   As we know from the tragedy in Tucson,  these people can be dangerous and the families can't cope with them with just their own resources. 

[Roma Jean Turner]

Good point Twirldoggy.  I keep asking, in the midst of all of this, when are we going to talk about mental health?  First and foremost this is a mental health issue.  I have seen families struggle with this close up.  How do you force an adult to take medication if they refuse?  Seek help if they refuse.  Young men at his age are not amenable to be told much of anything even without mental health problems. Parents are scared to death for them and sometimes of them, but because they are of legal age they can't force them to do anything.  The law can't do anything until someone get's hurt.  The schools can kick them out and warn them, but they don't have legal standing that I know of beyond that.  I don't have the answer, but we won't find it by just dismissing him as a nut case and blaming everyone on the other side of the aisle.  I know, I'm preaching to the choir. 

[redcliffsw]

You might be referring to the paragraph that states:

In 1854, President Franklin Pierce vetoed a bill to help the mentally ill, saying, "I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for public charity. (To approve the measure) would be contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."

If so, I agree with President Franklin Pierce and his veto.  However, it seems that a State or local has such authority if that's what they want to do.

[Diane Amberg]

Some years back the rules changed and the mental health institutions opened their doors and put a lot of permanently institutionalized people back on the streets.  A few were there wrongly and needed to be released to sheltered homes but they also turned out dangerous people.  The whole system changed and we have been paying the price ever since. Families just call 911 and there is only so much any of us can do either.
 A great majority of the homeless have mental problems, very few of whom are in any way dangerous.  Most of the dangerous cases have families who have pleaded for years for someone to do something.
We're the same way here. Almost anyone can request a 72 hour commitment for someone, but after that, if they want out they can walk unless they voluntarily commit themselves. We get called for the ambulance during psychotic breaks and it can be very bad and very sad too.  The meds do work for many, but the side effects are awful and some, whose judgement isn't good anyway, start feeling better and stop the meds and the cycle starts again. I'm hoping some day meds can be found and developed that will have fewer side effects and can have a delivery system, such as insulin pumps have, that can keep blood levels constant with no highs and lows. It really is heart breaking. Schools are stuck too because they want to help but have to consider it a safety issue. Once in awhile we can find a judge who will demand treatment be part of a long range "sentence. But it isn't common" It is a huge issue.

[twirldoggy]

I do believe that making someone live in a benevolent asylum is better than letting them die on the street.  I worked in State Hospital in the days of the 1960's and many people were held there until they got better and then released at the earliest possible date.  It prevented suicide, homocide, child abuse and spousal abuse.  

I once was confronted by a lawyer who told me he was going to get an order for habeus corpus because he was sure we were holding a person against their will.  I told him that my 40 hour a week job was to get people discharged out of the hospital just as soon as we could.  No one on the staff wanted to keep healthy people confined.   The doctor in charge of our unit received many letters of thanks for getting patients better.  

This is what we need in our society right now.  It is possible. The system that we have right now is not working.  It is a real disservice to our society to let this go on.     

[twirldoggy]

Yes I hear you Roma Jean and Diane.   

[greatguns]

AMEN!

[Patriot]

Lived for 13+ years with an ex who was finally diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder in year 11.   She went undiagnosed/untreated for 11 of those years.  Under treated for the last 2.  You want horror stories... I gotem! 

The MH system in our country is, in many cases, no better than big pharma... a money mill populated by a vast number of ppl who are in no way qualified to deal with serious mental illness.  Tons of people with MS degrees who make fine counselors for disobedient kids, but have no ability to distinguish between adolescent acting out and serious mental disorders.  Lots of folks with a PhD who aren't much better.  Even MDs who attempt to treat things they are totally unqualified to treat!  Believe me, I've seen the system at it's best worst.  It's beyond broken.

[twirldoggy]

I believe what you say is true.  

So many of the young therapists and doctors have not observed or treated major mental illness.  They are calling perfectly normal people bipolar simply because they have up and down moods.  There are many people who wrongly believe they are bipolar.

Borderline disorder is very very difficult and hard to treat.  But not impossible.