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Three days and still no answer...

A couple points to ponder, wonder if the road boss should consider putting up danger ahead signs on the roads where the places are not travelable by car before someone gets seriously hurt? They could be taken down as the places get fixed.

I think a better sign would be "Abonden Hope, All Ye Who Enter

Hey Cybil...I mean Shackelford...How many voices are telling you what to do today? I know who you are son and you are on my list!!!

The voices are many but distinguished. You may think you know who I am, but the real answer just might surprise you. And as for being on your list,...why am I?  Have I said something that is not true? 

As for the roads not draining;  how can snow melt drain off the roads when the piled up snow is blocking the ditches?  The crews could have left the snow on the road to melt and everybody would have something different to bitch about.  Remember how much snow we have had?  Remember how our crews spent Christmas Day clearing the roads?  Memories are too short.

You're right Wilma, memories are short.  For example, a person reads a manual that states in order for a pothole to be fixed it must first be cut out, the road reshaped, then and only then should new gravel be laid down.  That same person then goes out and simply blades over the pothole and then calls for a load of rock.
As far as snow removal goes, yes, they did a good job, and kudos to them for it.  However, that doesn't excuse the rest of the conditions of our roads.

I can't say my roads are the best, but really doesn't bother me to much...   I think we want champagne on beer money, all the way around the county!!

Speaking of champagne on a beer budget...would that be anything like purchasing a new 4x4 pickup for the roadboss, when the one he has is perfectly fine?

Sorry, but no one, and I mean no one is getting ahead right now.  Times are tough!  Do you think it would really be right to ask someone to take a lay off till weather straightens out, then when it does "Oh, we can use you now"!  Bad idea!  For one, put yourselfs in that person's, the road crews shoes!!  They, and the county do try.  So, budget doesn't allow for things, I am sorry I live with it.  

Do you really thin it is right to pay someone to drive around all day in a pickup "checking roads" just so they look busy?  All over the country States and Counties are having to tighten their belts, why should we be any different?  Is it really right to use taxpayer money to pay someone to basically do nothing?  
Tulsa PD is having to furlough officers, so is their Fire Dept., we are closing down two schools because we can't afford to maintain them, you're right times are tough.  

I just think you need to think of others to.  What do you do for a job?  Would you like it if someone layed you off or constantly complained about you??  When you were working hard?  Sorry, but I think that thinking of others is also not being done in this situation.  I am sure by the time summer gets here things, roads, will get better.

If I am doing a bad job I would want someone to point out where I need improvement.  Thinking of others is fine, but you have to look at the overall picture, not just one detail.  The county cannot continue to spend money without showing benefit.  Right now the road dept. is in a bit of a catch 22.  They have to fix the major problem spots, and theres a lot of them.  But by doing so, they're wasting rock money because the road isn't ready for rock.  It isn't completely the current crews fault, this problem is years in the making.  However, if the county continues with business as usual the problem will only get bigger.


As for who is an employee and who isn't...fwhat difference does it make, this is a public forum, and everyone has the right to voice their opinion.

Hell yeah! I agree. And I didnt know people really are that stupid but reading these it is apparent that you all want something for nothing, Whaaa  Whaaa my road  or this road or that road and it should be this way or that. IT HAS BEEN TOO WET!!! any work getting done is happening first thing in the morning while we still have a partial freeze, when it thaws its over. people are just going to have to deal with it best they can till better weather

What I want is for my tax dollars to be used wisely.  What I want is for the road crew to do what they are being paid to do, which is to maintain the roads in the proper fashion and to maintain the equipment the taxpayers of this county have paid for.  That doesn't include driving a loaded gravel truck 50 mph down a dirt road.  That also doesn't include sitting around the shop for an hour or so in the morning doing nothing.

"Its been too wet" explains why nothing is getting done now, however, if the roads had been properly maintained in the past that wouldn't be that big of an issue.  Proper crowns and ditches allow for better drainage.  When you have neither of those you end up with the problems we have now.  Compound the lack of crowns and ditches with improper grading and you end up with roads in bad shape.  For example, when the roads were dry enough to grade but lacked sufficient material, instead of hauling more rock onto that road the graders simply cut the road surface to come up with material to fill potholes which causes an "eyebrow" on the side of the road, which in turn prevents the water from running into the ditch, which after time creates an even bigger pothole.  Or they simply lay rock over the top of the holes and hope that the rock will magically stay in the hole.  Every book and technical manual ever written on the subject all say the same thing, that the hole must be cut out, that section of road re-shaped, and then re-rocked. 

As for laying off the road crews, M.MM may be on the right track.  Let me explain.  The State is broke, Elk County isn't exactly rolling in taxpayer money.  We don't exactly have money to burn.  Every State in the Union is looking for ways to save money.  If we don't have enough work to keep our crews busy it doesn't make sense to have them all show up.  Laying them off would be a bad idea seeing as how the county has a hard enough time coming up with people that want to work for it anyway, however, having the employees taking furloughs might be an alternative worth looking at. 

Mom70x7, don't miss the forest for the trees. 

Regardless of how the meetings are conducted, M. has a point.  How long has the county been using the "bigger" rock?  How many people have voiced a complaint about it?  How much have the commissioners listened?  It shouldn't take people showing up at the meetings to change things.  Unless the commissioners live in a bubble which protects them from public opinion, I am sure they have heard the complaints.  While the issue of this thread may be just the roads, I think it is time we started looking at a broader picture.  Just within the last years our roads have deteriorated to the point that a person cannot safely travel them in a car.  And the only excuse we get is "well, its been wetter than ususal."  To that I say Bullshit!  Wet weather doesn't account for the lack of crowns or ditches or improper grading or, and this is a biggie, the misuse of funds.  For example, last year the county was $150,000. OVER budget, yet they still came up with money to purchase a crane.

This year, with our roads in dire need of repair, instead of hiring more employees for the road crew theres talk of purchasing a 4x4 pickup for the road boss.  What does it say about how they conduct business when Moline has 3 road crew members, Longton 3, yet Howard has (when you include Mr. Lackey) over 5 people working out of their shop?

Why is it that on days when it is raining and too wet to work on the roads we still see shops full of people or the road crew driving around "checking roads"?  Seems they "check" the same roads over and over again without any improvements being made?  Do they not remember where the bad roads are?  And if they are in the shops doing maintainence on these days, why is their equipment always breaking down?

I know several members of the roadcrew and know they need a paycheck, however I also know that sitting around in the office or simply driving around trying to look busy isn't in the best interest of the county.

Consider this, most Police Departments employ 1 officer per 1000 people within their jurisdiction, Elk county has 3000 residents and how many deputies??  5 or 6? 

Why is it that the road crew employees need to know how to drive a truck, grader, operate a backhoe etc. yet at the courthouse there is one person per job?  Why do we need 3 people at the tag office when there is only 1 actually working?  Whatever happened to mulittasking? 

Doing something simply because thats the way it has always been done isn't an excuse for finding a better way.

It is not about "ease of use", its about the citizens of this county being treated like criminals because of the actions of ONE person.  By the way, Liz or any of the other commissoners that might be reading this thread, why hasn't the question of cost been answered?  A few people who post on this forum and are actually citizens that you are supposed to be representing have raised the question and deserve an answer!

So how many people showed up at the County Commission meeting to talk about the roads?

Maybe people would show up if the commissioners actually cared about what the people in this county think.  I can't remember the last time any of the commissioners went to the people and said "this is what we are thinking about doing, what do you think of this idea?"  Using the exuse that no one shows up to the meetings is nothing but an excuse.  By the way, why is it that the county workers are supposed to work so many hours a week to get insurance benefits yet the commissoners only have to meet twice a month and are still able to draw the same benefits?

M.MM you are too right.  Our roads are terrible, well, that is except for the deer ranch rd. and  Perkins Blvd...hey isn't that the same road that one of our commissioners lives on...hmmmm imagine that! 
Speaking about money better spent on gravel, how about the $18 grand they spent on a crane to clean 1, count'em, 1 bridge...which by the way sits idle as it has since the first time they tried to use it.  Wow!! what a good investment that turned out to be. 

Oh, and tell me again why it is that the road boss needs a 4x4 drive pickup when all the rest of the road crew only has 2wheel drive trucks??  I mean its not like he is driving around in a rust bucket old truck.

And another thing, why do you suppose they grade roads THAT HAVE NO GRAVEL ON THEM?  Sure, it may smooth up the road for a day or two, but in the long run all they're doing is cutting the road surface down which makes the water problem even worse!!