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You believe you're guaranteed free speech too..... go check the Canadian Constitution.... it ain't there.  So much for what you 'think' friend.

I know what's in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

[Methinks there is a bigger point being missed here. This is really more about government making unvetted social engineering choices and political power over the lives of every citizen in America than it is about CFLs & their mercury content. People like Jerry should expect to be told how to fold/wad their toilet paper as they live outside the US where milquetoast 'follow all the rules' is the norm. But here we have an legal expectation of liberty. The Congress was wrong to even consider this extra-constitutional law, and Bush was a dipstick for signing it. What does it say (about our citizenry and elected officials) when our leadership is busy dictating our light bulb choices? To me it says our citizenry is asleep at the switch and our leadership is blinded by ideology and too cozy with multinational businesses who have a lot to gain from such laws as this (GE = big political doner, GE= maker of CFLs in China, CFLs from China= much bigger profit margins, pols/GE win = taxpayers pay).]

Methinks there is a bigger point being missed here.  This is really more about government making unvetted social engineering choices and political power over the lives of every citizen in America than it is about CFLs & their mercury content.  People like Jerry should expect to be told how to fold/wad their toilet paper as they live outside the US where milquetoast 'follow all the rules' is the norm.  But here we have an legal expectation of liberty.  The Congress was wrong to even consider this extra-constitutional law, and Bush was a dipstick for signing it.  What does it say (about our citizenry and elected officials) when our leadership is busy dictating our light bulb choices?  To me it says our citizenry is asleep at the switch and our leadership is blinded by ideology and too cozy with multinational businesses who have a lot to gain from such laws as this (GE = big political doner, GE= maker of CFLs in China, CFLs from China= much bigger profit margins, pols/GE win = taxpayers pay).

For lack of anything better, Patriot, shove it.  We have legal expectation of liberty as much as you possess in the US if not more on many fronts.

Wagner, busting out windows and flipping the peace sign to news cameras while being hauled out like luggage by the police displays neither an informed basis for dissent nor the making of a coherent civil statement.  Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  Maybe they would be better served by being in history class learning to avoid the mistakes of the past.  They were, for the most part, kids just acting like children....albeit with the encouragement of adult aged folks also acting like spoiled children.   I was rold once that ignorance begets ignorance.  Good to see you support the behavior of these kids from your lofty pedestal, eh.

Not all those students were busting windows, some were.  By the same token, we can label others as having committed acts when only part of a group did so.  Maybe you need to get down off your lofty pedestal, y'all.  The older generation could do well to read a history book once in a while as well..... Afghanistan.

A wise man told me once that your not going to be successful or accomplish anything if you try ti fight the system.  It is and has been around longer than anyone on the planet and generally works.  To accomplish anything, and to be successful, one must learn the systema nd work within it to get what they want.  

For example, if you want a better paying job, you don't go on national tv and call your boss a dictator and tryant and call for equal partnership with the boss. What you do is work for the boss, learn what he knows, copy his success and you will in turn have a shot at being just as succcessful.  

Students act first think last. They do not have the ability or the wisdom to do it. IF they did, they wouldn't be students.  Their opinions are ok in a classroom to be used in guiding them to think critically and make good decisions.  BUT to  go out and express their opinions in mobs and act a fool, the only thing people will think of them is that they are absolute fools and their credibility is  instantly lost.   Demanding this, or that isn't going to get the job done.  What you have to do is find out what it will take to get the job done, lay the foundation to build on, and then proceed through the system to get it  done.  

This might mean having to slip some cash to someone in power under the table to grease the wheels. Is it right? nope, Its just reality. ITs the way it works and the wise man will use it to his advantage.  NO one every guaranteed that life would be fair.

Spoken in the same vein as most of your post.... as if you, representing the older generation, are the only ones capable of expressing a well defined opinion that could work.  It is time for the older generations to realize that they are not the only part of society, and that those that are younger are willing and capable of controlling their OWN lives. 

Patriot, you disagree with what those students were saying but at least they were willing to put their feet down and make a statement.  They may not know their history to the same degree as you do, but they does not mean they are ill-informed.

You can also conserve electricity simply by not using it when not necessary.  How about those lights that are left on all the time, my 2 TVs that I think I have to have on simultaneously, running water when not actually using it.  It takes more power to fill the water tanks.  Besides they are ugly.  I have a chandelier that exposes the bulbs.  How are those ugly things going to look in my chandelier?

I will bet that you could think of a hundred ways to conserve more electricity than what these nuisance bulbs will do.  I am with MT.  I am not converting until I can't buy the incandescent any longer.

There are chandelier ones available, they are not all curly.  There are several globe, flame tip, chandelier and other options.

[proper]

Do more research.

CFLs:
1. Contain mercury
2. Emit ultraviolet radiation
3. Emit electromagnetic radiation
4. The best part is at the bottom

The British Health Protection Agency said some of the CFL's tested produced UV radiation beyond acceptable levels (this is bad if you use them close to you, like in reading lamps and such). There have already been numerous complaints from people having skin issues due to these bulbs and the issues went away when they switched back to incandescent.

The electromagnetic radiation (radio frequency radiation) can also cause issues. Here's a small quote on some potential issues from that:


Oh yeah... and the way the government is doing it they are essentially handing GE a monopoly on CFL's. Oh yeah, and they won't be made here in the U.S. No, no, no... they will be and already are made in China.

The best part... in the end, they are likely to have an equal or GREATER "carbon footprint" than incandescent. How so? Manufacturing, operating, AND proper disposal of the bulbs. Due to them containing mercury the proper way to dispose of them is to reclaim the mercury, which means packaging and shipping them to some company to do so. If they are thrown away, like most people WILL do, then we'll have to clean up the mercury from the landfills so that we don't ruin our water supplies (i.e. lots and lots more money, time, and fuel spent cleaning up the mess with the potential to poison people further).

It requires around 16 times as much energy to produce a CFL bulb. They are heavier as well meaning sturdier packaging (and worse too according to greenies... being plastic and all) and due to them being heavier that means higher transportation costs i.e. lowered fuel efficiency when shipping in large quantities.

Please... tell me how ANY of that make CFL's better than incandescent!


I've been using CFL's cause I thought they looked cool and they do put out quite a bit of light but no more. After the research I've done, and the government wanting to shove them down our throats, I will NEVER support CFL's and am going to stock up on incandescent bulbs before they're all gone.

Touching on your objections:

1.They contain mercury, correct they do as it is well established 0.69mg.  However, in Kansas Westar utilizes coal-fired plants to produce 59.5% of its annual production which produce mercury, some of which is removed (25% roughly) due to the scrubbing technology used by Westar.  However, until they use clean coal, there is still mercury production.  Most studies would indicate that the CFL bulb would decrease mercury production significantly due to the lower consumption.

2. Incandescent light bulbs produce UV radiation as well.  Most people don't stand directly under a light bulb all day, but if you do keep 30cm distance between you and the light bulb (either one!).

3. EMF production is the case with most household appliances.  You decide whether you can tolerate your cell phone, home phone, monitor, computer, television, electric blanket, power codes, etc.  Like I said you decide.

4. CFL bulbs require roughly 9x-10x the greenhouse gas expulsion to produce as do incandescent bulbs, however they generally last 8x longer and utilize 25% of the energy necessary to produce the same lumens of light.  Thus, they would consume significantly less over their life as do incandescent light bulbs taking production/operation and scrapping into account.

Continue your resistance to CFL's if you choose, but they are a better and more efficient technology than incandescent.  Conservation is a worthy goal.

Hmmmmm.... And this battle will no doubt be waged for years and years to come, largely
because it's fuelled by America's most plentiful natural resource:  Jerry's narrow-minded
self-righteous indignation.  You know Jerry, I'm actually a big proponent of using alternative
energy. As a matter of fact, at this very moment, every single watt of electricity in my
home is being provided by an alternative energy source: a low-cost, underground
shunt-wire that my brother-in-law has tapped into my next door neighbor's fuse-box.

Or powered by your insulting swipes at others that do not really state an opinion?

This is our Congress at work. I wish they would put as much thought into developing our own Petroleum Reserves.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/75548.html 

Yes, because there is something wrong with conserving energy.

Minutes are not official until approved at the next meeting.

Try looking at this report from the Kansas Policy Institute (think-tank bankrolled by Koch Industries):

Kansas County Budget Analysis — In Search of Efficient Government
Dave Trabert - July, 2010

http://www.kansaspolicy.org/researchcenters/budgetandspending/budgetandspendingstudies/65372.aspx

Page 14 - 2009 Per-Resident Budgeted Spending

Of the thirty-eight Kansas counties with less than 5000 residents, Elk county spent the third least per person at $1364.26.  Osborne was just lower at $1340.16, and Chautauqua spent the least at $1109.35.  The median for these 38 small counties was $2082.79.

--------------------------------

Elk County really isn't over-spending, it just doesn't have very much property valuation to tax, the lowest in the state to be exact, and by a large amount - 2010 numbers from the Knasas Department of Revenue:

http://www.ksrevenue.org/pdf/novanalysis.pdf

County - Valuation (in dollars)

Elk - 19,999,882
Wichita - 26,366,392
Wallace - 26,827,193
Chautauqua - 27,800,149
Greeley - 28,094,169
Woodson - 28,389,770
Rawlins - 29,202,724

Also, combine that with the an exceptionally low population which is what the original statement was based on, property taxes per person.