Grrrrr! I am royally p'd off today. If I had any guts I'd get the membership roster of the Westboro Baptist Church and go picket everyone of their member's funerals and see how they like it, free speech be darned. How dare they!!!!! Whatever happened to the responsibilities that went along with our rights?
Did they show up at a memorial in Delaware? Such despicable people...............no one can seem to get them shut down legally. The Patriot Guards motorcycle group of veterans have done pretty well protecting the memorial ceremonies and family members in Kansas, but I'm not sure how things are handled in other parts of the country.
Yes they did, and were disappointed they didn't get the coverage they expected.They were kept far enough way to be just a nuisance and were ignored.
I'm right there with you Diane. I can't imagine the anger I would feel if I ever had to come face to face with this group. But, I guess there are no laws against spiritual arrogance and total lack of taste and just plain human consideration. Any teachings Jesus had on compassion certainly got by this group.
Didn't I read yesterday that this group won defense fees from a soldiers' father who lost a court suit against Phelps? I cannot remember where it was, or the details. :P
Marine's Father Will Not Pay Court-Ordered Funeral Protesters' Fees
FOXNews.com
The father of a Marine killed in Iraq whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters told Fox News he will defy a court order and not pay the protesters' appeal costs.
The father of a Marine killed in Iraq whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters told Fox News he will defy a court order and not pay the protesters' appeal costs.
Albert Snyder, of York, Pa., told Fox News he does not intend to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps, the leader of Kansas' Westboro Baptist Church, which held protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder's funeral in 2006.
"I don't think I'm going to be writing a check until I hear from the Supreme Court," Snyder told Fox News on Tuesday. "I'm not about to pay them anything."
The Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder on Friday to pay Phelps. A two-page decision supplied by his attorneys offered no details on how the court came to its decision.
The decision adds "insult to injury," said Sean Summers, one of Snyder's attorneys.
Snyder is also struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court, his attorneys said.
The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters' message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.
A federal appeals court dismissed the suit on First Amendment grounds earlier this month and threw out a $5 million award against the protesters, some of whom carried signs that read "God Hates You" and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers."
A funeral for the fallen Marine was held in March 2006 in Westminster, Md. Snyder, 20, died from a non-combat-related vehicle accident on March 3, 2006, while supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.
According to a Web site created in Snyder's honor, his relatives filed the civil lawsuit against the Westboro Baptist Church to "bring an end to the reign of terror and abuse that they inflicted" upon grieving families of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"Using innocent children to deliver their twisted message of hatred and fear, the defendants in this suit have sought to attack the memory of our departed heroes, to strip their loved one of dignity, and to use abuse and intimidation as a tool for preventing surviving family members from reaching closure over their loss," the Web site read.
Click here to visit MatthewSnyder.org.
Cathy Menefee, Snyder's sister, told the Baltimore Sun in 2006 that her brother had an unwavering sense of responsibility that led to his decision to join the military.
"It sounds so cliche, but he died doing what he wanted to do," Menefee told the paper. "He always wanted to be a Marine."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Yes, Six, that's what really pushed my buttons. The black arts hiding behind the Golden Rule. Hiss! I didn't realize this mess was still going on after all these years. And a young Marine no less. What a way to treat a young warrior.
Thanks for posting this Frank, I do hope something good comes out of this. Families should not have to put up with this when these brave souls died defending their rights. God bless Mr. Snyder and his family. :)
Bill O'Reilly said last night he will personally pay Mr Snyder's $16,000+ fee to them ignorant SOB's but when it reaches the Supreme Court and the liberal judges order is overturned he wants Freddie P.to pay him the money back
Jarhead, this whole deal made me sick. I just hope the Father gets it before the Supreme Court before Obama makes anymore appointments to it.
If I remember correctly the father won his first go and the church counter sued for freedom of speech and won....One of the times that a right can be misused and abused. I don't quite think this is what the constitution had in mind. Because they have singled out a particular group it sounds to me more like a hate crime. That young Marine paid with his life. He can't hear their rants so what's the point? I'd love to be a mouse in the supreme court chambers and hear the debate on this one.
This matter at the funerals is a mess. There's many other things being done
that are contrary to the Constitution that ought to have our attention but many
Americans seem to want more from the Federales.
Hate crime? Are you into that junk too?
I understand that the supreme court has agreed to hear this in September. I do hope that clarification of the right to freedom of speech comes out of this session; that freedom should not interfere with the right to grieve without insults from any group. And I do not consider this a conservative view.
Red, I'd hardly call true hate crimes junk, but too many times it's convenient label. This business really bothers me though. Hiding behind our constitution to harass the families of a fallen military person is just the lowest form of antisocial behavior. How much hurtful bad behavior is a person supposed to suck up, big girl panties or not, so others don't have to be bothered or think about it? PUULEEZ! Did you see what they had written on some of their signs? Why aren't other Baptist Churches speaking out against this?
Interesting, I must have amnesia. I don't remember starting this thread. ;D I had an E-mail chat with a retired lawyer and he's not so sure that the Supreme Court will reverse the second decision based on the tight requirements protecting freedom of speech. It will be a precedent setting case if they do. He said those particular Baptists are ugly, hate infested people, no doubt, but since there were no real damages they may win. Unfortunately, uncivilized downright mean people are also protected.
Does any group ever protest them at their church I wonder? I bet they would sue anyone in a heartbeat that they thought overstepped a boundry. I saw Fred's daughter on some Fox show a year or so ago, and I tell you that is one smug, arrogant................. I get anygry just at the thought of them.
You know this is a no brainer. THey protested the funeral, the marines father sued for damages and won because this group caused pain and suffering and damage by exercising their right to free speech.
If i go into a crowded theater, and exercise my right to free speech, and yell fire, and if anyone is hurt, then i would be sued and damages assessed.
The fact is, we have a constitutional Right to say anything we want. But that doesn't stop our responsibility to utilize it in a wise manner nor does it prohibit consequences of our actions from coming back to bite us.
Bottom line is you have the right to free speech, and its your responsibility to learn to keep your mouth shut. Otherwise its going to cost ya.
=Roma Jean Turner
Does any group ever protest them at their church I wonder? I bet they would sue anyone in a heartbeat that they thought overstepped a boundry. I saw Fred's daughter on some Fox show a year or so ago, and I tell you that is one smug, arrogant................. I get anygry just at the thought of them.
[/quote]
RJT, You are too nice a person---but I aint. Freddie's daughter is smug, arrogant and ----butt ugly !! She looks like the south end of a north bound mule.
Ok, so this will probably get me hung but...
I think this is an issue that we need to be very careful on. Granted what Phelps and his people do is disgusting, however when we start suing someone for excrising their political viewpoint, or telling them that they can't it puts us all in jeporady. I think that there should be a law that limits how close protesters can be to a cemetary or church where funerals are being conducted. But thats it. I understand the fallen Marines family position but I don't think the lower courts should have ruled in their favor.
The "pain and suffering" that someones words have on you is only equal to the amount of affect you allow it to have on you.
To me, it goes back to the saying, "I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it". Thats why the Constitution was written in the way it was. We don't need an admendment protecting the viewpoints that we all agree upon.
Quote from: Varmit on April 02, 2010, 04:47:17 AM
Ok, so this will probably get me hung but...
I think this is an issue that we need to be very careful on. Granted what Phelps and his people do is disgusting, however when we start suing someone for excrising their political viewpoint, or telling them that they can't it puts us all in jeporady. I think that there should be a law that limits how close protesters can be to a cemetary or church where funerals are being conducted. But thats it. I understand the fallen Marines family position but I don't think the lower courts should have ruled in their favor.
The "pain and suffering" that someones words have on you is only equal to the amount of affect you allow it to have on you.
To me, it goes back to the saying, "I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death, your right to say it". Thats why the Constitution was written in the way it was. We don't need an admendment protecting the viewpoints that we all agree upon.
Well i don't disagree we all have the right to say what we want. But there are responsibilities with the freedom of speech. Seriously another example is when someone defames another publically. Destroying anothers character through freedom of speech is and has been all the way back to the founding of our country a offense that 1st amendment does not protect. Even our 2nd amendment to keep and bear arms, which bear also means use, if we use it indiscriminately the 2nd amendment does not protect us in that useage.
The 1st amendment is by far the most powerful weapon we have. The 2nd amendment backs it up and when we have to use it, we essentially as a nation lose. When we have to resort to violence to back up our freedoms, that means we were unsuccesful at keeping them utilizing the non violent tools to keep them.
Quote from: srkruzich on April 02, 2010, 06:36:33 AM
But there are responsibilities with the freedom of speech. Seriously another example is when someone defames another publically. Destroying anothers character through freedom of speech is and has been all the way back to the founding of our country a offense that 1st amendment does not protect.
I agree, but in the case of the Phelps, they're not defaming any one paticular person, so you can't accuse them of Defamination of Character.
You are right Varmit....I was way to nice. If I could have jumped through the TV screen I would have strangled the Butt Ugly Bitch. Wow, now I feel better. I love this Forum.
Quote from: Varmit on April 02, 2010, 07:51:17 AM
I agree, but in the case of the Phelps, they're not defaming any one paticular person, so you can't accuse them of Defamination of Character.
I know that but they are interfering with peoples privacy. This is a case where one person/groups rights end where another persons/groups rights begin and in this case, phelps group were the agressors and interfering in that funeral.
Yes and No. On one hand I see what you're saying and I agree to a point. On the other hand, a cemetary and the streets one must travel on to get there are pubic and therefore the right to privacy doesn't apply.
The problem I see with laws governing protests is that unless they are worded very specically they could be used as a means of controlling political dissent. For example, police agencies could use the laws to say that Tea Parties cannot be held within a 2 mile radius of any political campagin speech, because they are invading the Speakers right to privacy.