For information... a gentleman I have been doing research on in a totally separate area of inquiry turns out to have been married in Howard, on April 2, 1913 by a Rev. Nichols, pastor of the Howard Baptist Church. This appeared in a publication of the Steam Traction Association in 1973, a group of steam thresher and boiler enthusiasts. Arndt was an engineer who used to work for Armour, the meat company, and later retired to Noel, Mo. in 1948. There they purchased and ran a jewelry store and watch repair shop. He was the county surveyor for McDonald County, Missouri for 23 years. Interestingly, or by coincidence if you believe in that kind of thing... McDonald County also has an Elk River! How about that?
In the Coffee Shop section of this forum, under a thread entitled secession there is information about an event that happened in 1961 of which Arndt was a vital member. McDonald County renamed itself McDonald Territory and attempted to secede from the State of Missouri. Arndt was appointed as the Postmaster General of McDonald Territory in addition to serving as the Chief Justice. It was a very interesting episode in Missouri history and I would like any further information that anyone there in Elk County might be able to add. I doubt I can get over to the courthouse or records center to do any hands-on research, but I would be especially interested in knowing the name of his wife. Are there any local genealogists who might be able to help me with that bit of information? I would appreciate it. My webpage about Mr. Arndt for any genealogists or history buffs is http://www.qsl.net/kg0yh/arndt.htm
I checked the Elk County history book index and there is no reference to an Arndt.
There are several Arndt names listed in the Howard Grace Lawn cemetery at http://www.ksgennet.org/ks/ek/cem/graceab.html#A
Walter R. Arndt--Noel, Missouri was born February 10, 1893,
at Alta Vista, Kansas He married April 2, 1913, at
Howard, Kansas, To Lottie J. Tilton, who was born October
2, 1889, at Altamont, Kansas. They had an only son (born March 25, 1915 in Moline, Elk County) who
passed away September 3rd, 1972. He was buried Corinth
Cemetery in Kansas City, Kansas. [Leawood]
Quote from: pocketseddie on March 26, 2010, 07:31:57 AM
Walter R. Arndt--Noel, Missouri was born February 10, 1893,
at Alta Vista, Kansas He married April 2, 1913, at
Howard, Kansas, To Lottie J. Tilton, who was born October
2, 1889, at Altamont, Kansas. They had an only son (born March 25, 1915 in Moline, Elk County) who
passed away September 3rd, 1972. He was buried Corinth
Cemetery in Kansas City, Kansas. [Leawood]
pocketseddie:
Thank you so much for such a quick response! I appreciate it. Another piece added to the puzzle.
Mobargq, I believe that the Elk River that flows through McDonald County is the same Elk River that comes from Elk County in Kansas.
Sorry Janet, the Elk River that runs through Elk county KS begins in the Flint Hills and ends when it empties into the Verdigris River near Independence, KS.
Now I'm curious. Do you know what the actual source is? A spring or a bunch of little creeks or what?
The Elk River in Elk County comes roaring down the valleys of the Northwest corner of Elk County after heavy rains, seeking a lower level, which is easy to find on the east side of our part of the hills. It collects from many slopes and forms many small branches before it settles into what is sometimes laughingly called a river. Before some watersheds were put in, it would often stop running during dry weather. I don't think it ever dried up entirely, but there could be found stretches of dry land between pools of water. However, before it leaves Elk County, it has become respectable and does resemble a river. It flows into the Elk City Reservoir before it continues on it's merry way to the Verdigris. I wouldn't trade Elk County, KS's Elk River for any other river in the country. Not even the beautiful crystal clear streams of Missouri and Arkansas.
Wilma, this is a much more interesting subject than some want to pursue.
Roaring down out of the northwest, to me, is a very good description. Especially after seeing some of the flotsam and junk that have been pushed down and then deposited on the banks in that part of the county.
I see where American Whitewater rates a one mile section of Elk River around Elk Falls as a Class III rafting event. Class III is "difficult."
Somewhere near Independence is a fifteen mile Elk River Hiking Trail, which one web site says is nationally recognized.
I never thought about the Elk being laughingly called a river, but have wondered about it several times. I have also always wondered how the Big Caney made river status—although it must get bigger somewhere around Oklahoma. That river starts north of Grenola and is 55 miles in length before it enters the Verdigris.
If one looks over the southwest fence at the cemetery, Rock Creek looks much more like a river than the Elk does--maybe not all the time though.
The Elk River flows 81 miles before it hits the Verdigris. In that 81 miles it starts at about 1587 feet elevation and drops to 800 feet where it enters Elk City Lake or Reservoir. After leaving the lake, it drops to 765 feet where it enters the Verdigris.
Fall River is the other river flowing in Elk County and it just passes through in the northeast.
Here are, I hope, two pictures of Elk River. I don't seem to take pictures of the river unless the water is up. However, the first one is looking upstream from a low water bridge about 7 miles west and north of Howard. The white strips across the upper part of the water indicates small falls in the river. The second one is looking downstream from the bridge on Highway 99 on another day. The water was just barely below the bridge that day. On a normal day, parts of the river bed can be seen beside the water. The year was 2007 and there had been a lot of heavy rain.
Waldo, you are right about the Big Caney. I think it was probably named after one of our cloudbursts.
Thanks to you both. I'm always interested in that kind of thing.
This was very interesting. Thank you both.
Another little tidbit about our Elk River. Starts in NW part of the county and when it crosses into Mongomery county, just a tad east of Oak Valley, OVER half it's decent to the ocean is over. Did I say that right ? Waldo help me out here. Means from NW Elk county to SE Elk county is a heck of a drop, then kinda flatten outs as it makes it's way to the Gulf of Mexico
I think the word you want is descent, not decent, altho it probably is a decent enough river as far as rivers go. Oh, rivers do go quite a way, don't they. All the way to the ocean.
Thank you Wilma. John Barleycorn is helping me write tonight and he's a moron. :)
Not sure what route Elk river takes to the Gulf but I think the Verdigris into Grand Lake and out there for a spell and then into the mighty Mississippi . Building a raft tomorrow and gonna float it so in a month or so I'll get back with you---unless I get ran over by a steamboat !!!
OR, attacked and eaten by one of them giant squirrels! And, Jack Daniels is helping me along with R.A.M.B.O. and they are both way smarter than me.
Larryj
All the Elk County rivers flow into the Verdigris.
The Verdigris begins at about Madison, Kansas, and is 280 miles long and flows into the Arkansas River (in this case the "Rkansaw River" rather than the "Rkansas" river since it occurs in Oklahoma). The Arkansas flows into the Mississippi.
By my bearings using Delorme Maps the Elk starts at 1587 feet and is at 765 feet when it flows into the Verdigris. That is about one-half a drop from the source.
I dont have my Delorme with me so I dont know at what elevation the Verdigris flows into the Arkansas.
I was talking to a Union Center Township rancher who works on Limestone Road at about as far west as it goes, this past week and he said that the Elk River started at what he called a "U Shaped" spring in Butler County.
He said the place has been pretty well trashed by teenagers who apparently frequent there quite often.
Your description sounds like out about where my Uncle Bill's old place is. Very interesting! Who were you talking to, if I might ask?
Diane,
I think I know who you're refering to as your uncle Billy but I can't seem to connect the dots. HELP !!!
Bill Denton. Used to own a lot of land before where Limestone Road stops going mostly west and winds north (or some road goes north.) The house and barns were almost at the corner, some 10 miles out of town. Clear Creek was encroaching on the road there so "they" took the road off alignment and took a chunk of his long front yard for the road. )There is a low water crossing there too, at the intersection,on the south side.
Diane, I was around Billy Denton a lot when I was a kid and I worked for the Denton's for several years and I never heard him called Bill by anyone, he was Billy or Uncle Billy to everyone. Did you ever meet him. I was working for the Denton's when the Denton-Amberg war was on, it was interesting to say the least.
Of course I met him! ;D We visited a number of times and stayed there when we did, and there were many, many phone calls over the years. I talked to him a lot. It was my mom who insisted we kids call him Uncle Bill, and Teddy was to be called Uncle Ted. Never did know why. I was grown before I ever heard him called anything else. I loved Skeeter and Blondie and wished they were mine. I enjoyed going out in the old pick up with Grandpa to oil the oil wells, thought that was pretty funny. Didn't like those rods that went to the machinery house, looked a little too ''snakey'' to me. We went fishing in the ponds out back and even caught some fish, too small to eat so we released them. I enjoyed staying at Grandma and Grandpa's house too.I was allowed to stay with them by myself when I was little and thought that was pretty special. That's when Grandma taught me to use the big cream separator and I learned to make butter.
1960 and the next several years were tough because of all that family fighting and there were some very hard feelings for quite awhile.(That's how I got to know Katherine Tarwater) That older generation is gone now, at least I don't think anyone is left and the younger ones are long past it, if they even knew, and seem to get along fine, not that any of us are young any more. Unfortunately family deaths can bring out the worst in people sometimes. (I can't imagine what you heard.) Heck, I didn't care, loved the whole pack of them.
Diane, you got to know Mrs Tarwater, I seem to remember she had Grandchildren around your age that were around there some, did you play a lot with them. As far as what I heard, I didn't just hear it, I read it in the various documents that were filed. In fact many of them are probably on record at the courthouse. You must not be aware of what took place, I will just say that it was a real lesson to me. DNA would have really been iinteresting in this case. I will see what documentation is available on this.
I was not a party to anything that happened in this family, not around when all this was taking place. If the Hatfields and McCoys can get over it, then this dead dog needs to be left alone in peace. My grandmother would say, "the more you stir a turd, the worse it stinks". Get over it, for gosh sakes.
No, I never had the pleasure of meeting Mrs. Tarwater's grand kids. Keep in mind I was 16 when Uncle Bill died. I am unfortunately very much aware of all that happened and why. I have copies of all the files. It took awhile, but turned out OK in the end. Nuff said.
Diane,
Just wondering if you know the names of Mrs.Tarwaters grandchildren which three of them still own property in Elk county and one still ownes the Tarwater home. One was in Howard this past week end burning pasture. Your uncle Teddy drove Mr and Mrs Tarwater on vacations to check over property in Oklahoma and to go to the Ozarks. When was the last time you were in Howard, Ks? The one that was in Howard this past week end knows the Winn family quite well.
Diane,
You are every thread on the forum but I have ask you several questions and I receive no answer!!! ::)
I'm sorry. I thought I did answer. What did I miss? And no I'm NOT on every thread!
We were in Howard in 2008. No, I never met any of the grandchildren (answered earlier) and do not know their names, sorry. If you are planning to give me a test I'll have to study, and I'm sure I could find the grand kids names if I have to. Why does it matter?