I received this from a friend.
Jo
The article is in the Marble Falls, Texas newspaper. It was written by our former
county judge, David Kithil. He voiced his opposition to HB 3200, and gave
EXACT SPECIFICS, to include page and paragraph in the bill on why
this Health Bill is BAD. I called Thomas Edwards,
Editor of the River Cities Tribune, to get legal
permission to quote David Kithil's comments. He
gave me that permission, so I can quote him. Here are
excerpts from the article, giving EXACT
pages and paragraph in the bill and why it is so bad. You
can forward this to all of your addressees. I think he hits
everything right on the head and the opposition you may
encounter cannot argue over these points:
JUDGE KITHIL:
"I have reviewed selected sections of the bill and find it
unbelievable that our Congress, led by Speaker Nancy Pelosi,
could come up with a bill loaded with so many wrong-headed
elements. We do need to reform the health insurance system
in America in order to make coverage affordable and
available to everyone. But, how many of us believe our
federal government can manage a new program any better than
the bankrupt Medicare program or the underfunded Social
Security program? Both Republicans and Democrats are equally
responsible for the financial mess of those two programs.
I am opposed to HB 3200 for a number of reasons. To start with, it is
estimated that a federal bureaucracy of more than 150,000 new
employees will be required to administer HB3200. That
is an unacceptable expansion of a government that is
already too intrusive in our lives. If we are going to hire
150,000 new employees, let's put them to work protecting
our borders, fighting the massive drug problem and putting more
law enforcement/firefighters out there."
NOW here comes the good stuff: "Other problems I have with
this bill include:
Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all
non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.
Page 58 and 59: The governme will have real-time
access to an individual's bank account and will have the
authority to make electronic fund transfers from those
accounts.
Page 65/section164: The plan will be subsidized (by the
government) for all union members, union retirees and for
community organizations (such as the Association of
Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).
Page 203/line14-15: The tax imposed under
this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody
in their right mind come up with that?)
Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of
specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.
Page272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to
the patient's age.
Page317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on
hospital expansion, however, communities may petition for an
exception. Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates
advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security
will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years.
Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors
can write an end-of-life order."
HAD ENOUGH????
Judge Kithil then goes on: " Finally, it is specifically stated this bill
will not apply to members of Congress.
Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social
Security system and have a well-funded private plan that covers
their retirement needs. If they were on our Social
Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick
"fix" to make the plan financially sound for the future."
Honorable David Kithil
Marble Falls , Texas
All of the above should give you all the point blank ammo you need
to support your opposition to Obamacare.
most of these statements have already been proven to be false
Quote from: Anmar on December 02, 2009, 03:21:02 PM
most of these statements have already been proven to be false
Please provide authoritative references showing that these statements are 'false'. I presume you aren't relying on the law degree and advanced Constitutional Law courses you got out that box of Cracker Jack.
ITs already been done on these forums
Soooooooo ?? And your point is? It can't be brought up again?
Quote from: Anmar on December 02, 2009, 03:21:02 PM
most of these statements have already been proven to be false
Proven to be false...really...then riddle me this...
SEIU is one of the leading authors of the healthcare bill. SEIU is one of the largest supporters of undocumented "workers" in this country. SEIU make millions of dollars of campaign contributions each year. Do you really think that they would "leave out" one of the largest portions of their people?
they did, it's done. I've already posted this.
I don't know why you all are going nuts over illegals getting healthcare at taxpayers expense. IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.....
The bill has a section that says the new law will not pay health care bills for illegal aliens. Thats a huge giant step towards fighting illegal immigration and its a hell of a lot more than what any republican did while they were in office.
Quote from: Anmar on December 03, 2009, 09:28:32 AM
they did, it's done. I've already posted this.
I don't know why you all are going nuts over illegals getting healthcare at taxpayers expense. IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.....
The bill has a section that says the new law will not pay health care bills for illegal aliens. Thats a huge giant step towards fighting illegal immigration and its a hell of a lot more than what any republican did while they were in office.
Please to provide bill reference, section, page and paragraph. If you are going to say it's a lie, then provide something other than DemonCrat talking points. Thanks.
And as for what has or has not been done or by whom is concerned... Would it not be much easier to bridle the horse from the front end. ENFORCE OUR EXISTING IMMIGRATION STATUTES. Remember, young fella from caleeeforeeahhh, the demoncrats had control of congress for at least the last two years of the Bush Administration. Perhaps a better question is: Why has NO ONE done anything definitive about illegal immigration?
Just some food for thought. Doesn't the very need to debate this issue cause anyone a problem. WTF do we have in DC if the concept of American taxpayers providing health coverage for illegal aliens (read: criminal foreigners who have invaded our country) even needs to be thought about.
Quote from: Patriot on December 03, 2009, 11:41:24 AM
Please to provide bill reference, section, page and paragraph. If you are going to say it's a lie, then provide something other than DemonCrat talking points. Thanks.
And as for what has or has not been done or by whom is concerned... Would it not be much easier to bridle the horse from the front end. ENFORCE OUR EXISTING IMMIGRATION STATUTES. Remember, young fella from caleeeforeeahhh, the demoncrats had control of congress for at least the last two years of the Bush Administration. Perhaps a better question is: Why has NO ONE done anything definitive about illegal immigration?
Just some food for thought. Doesn't the very need to debate this issue cause anyone a problem. WTF do we have in DC if the concept of American taxpayers providing health coverage for illegal aliens (read: criminal foreigners who have invaded our country) even needs to be thought about.
I've done it weeks ago and posted here. You keep asking me to look things up for you. I'm not your librarian or your fact checker. Just go back a few pages or use the forum search button. As a staunch conservative, you should at least have some sense of personal responsibility. Take some responsibility for your own education instead of asking me to do everything for you.
Quote from: Anmar on December 03, 2009, 09:28:32 AM
they did, it's done. I've already posted this.
I don't know why you all are going nuts over illegals getting healthcare at taxpayers expense. IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.....
The bill has a section that says the new law will not pay health care bills for illegal aliens. Thats a huge giant step towards fighting illegal immigration and its a hell of a lot more than what any republican did while they were in office.
Well just because it has the words not for illegals doesn't mean the illegals can't get it. All they have to do is become legal under the proposed amnesty plan, including the gang members and everyone else, all they have to do is say their not in a gang anymore and the government will trust them.
Illegals will get medical care one way or another. The liberals will make sure they do.
This is nothing more than a Dam with a pinhole in it. IF you don't stop the little stream of water, pretty soon the whole dam will come apart and it all goes to hell.
thats the same argument you used in the last thread. There is no proposed amnesty plan.
I like this pattern that you continually take me on. You post a false claim, i prove it false, instead of discussing your claim, you move the goalpost.
Quote from: Anmar on December 03, 2009, 12:41:10 PM
thats the same argument you used in the last thread. There is no proposed amnesty plan.
I like this pattern that you continually take me on. You post a false claim, i prove it false, instead of discussing your claim, you move the goalpost.
As of October4th, Amnesty plan has been revived.
From the Desk of Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton:
Obama Administration Unveils Amnesty Plan
The Obama administration is finally taking up the illegal immigration but you're not going to like what they've got planned. According to the San Jose Mercury News:
While acknowledging that the recession makes the political battle more difficult, Obama plans to begin addressing America's immigration system this year, including looking for a path for illegal immigrants to become legal, a senior administration official said Wednesday.
Obama will frame the new effort — likely to rouse passions on all sides of the highly divisive issue — as "policy reform that controls immigration and makes it an orderly system," said the official, Cecilia Munoz, deputy assistant to the president and director of intergovernmental affairs in the White House.
Now, should we be surprised that Cecilia Munoz is taking up the cause for illegal alien amnesty? Not at all.
As some of you may recall, before accepting a position in the Obama administration, Munoz served as Senior Vice President for the National Council of La Raza, the public relations front for the Mexican reconquista movement, which seeks to conquer the American Southwest and return it to Mexico. The organization aggressively lobbies for open borders and, you guessed it, amnesty for the 12 million illegals currently residing in the United States. And now they've got a friend in the White House.
Already, Janet Napolitano at Homeland Security shut down workplace enforcement (no more raids on employers of illegals), and has given amnesty to some illegals caught violating the law in prior raids. We warned you about Napolitano!
Quote from: Anmar on December 03, 2009, 12:41:10 PM
thats the same argument you used in the last thread. There is no proposed amnesty plan.
I like this pattern that you continually take me on. You post a false claim, i prove it false, instead of discussing your claim, you move the goalpost.
Now the balls in your court anmar. Goal post is still in the same location.
Nt really, you are changing the issue. The issue is, healthcare for illegal aliens. It exists now, the new plan will bar the government from providing it, period. If they become legal, then they obviously become eligible. Whether or not they should become legal is a seperate issue.
Not really. The issue hasn't changed just the wording.
Healthcare bill gets passed. Healthcare bill states "no healtcare for illegals". Amnesty bill gets past. Illegals become legal. So, people who were illegal at the time of the healthcare bill being passed are now recieving healtcare.
Different means to the same end. That is, illegals recieving gov't funded healthcare.
However, if the gov't were to stop the healtcare bill like it should, then the issue of illegals in regards to healthcare wouldn't be an issue.
Quote from: Anmar on December 03, 2009, 01:01:02 PM
Nt really, you are changing the issue. The issue is, healthcare for illegal aliens. It exists now, the new plan will bar the government from providing it, period. If they become legal, then they obviously become eligible. Whether or not they should become legal is a seperate issue.
No ones changed the issue, YOU said I lied about Amnesty for illegals. And now you just had your statement shoved back down your throat you want to change topics. IF they do pass this God forsaken piece of legislation, it should ban ANY healthcare to NON Americans since it is Americans that would have to pay for it.
Quote from: Varmit on December 03, 2009, 01:54:38 PM
Not really. The issue hasn't changed just the wording.
Healthcare bill gets passed. Healthcare bill states "no healtcare for illegals". Amnesty bill gets past. Illegals become legal. So, people who were illegal at the time of the healthcare bill being passed are now recieving healtcare.
Different means to the same end. That is, illegals recieving gov't funded healthcare.
However, if the gov't were to stop the healtcare bill like it should, then the issue of illegals in regards to healthcare wouldn't be an issue.
Like i said to my last post. Ban all healthcare to NON Americans.
Riding the ambulance for so many years has given me an odd perspective on all this. Where does the denial of care start? At the hospital front door? The 911 call center? In the ambulance? As it is right now there is no provision for us to deny care. Suppose a subject is hit by a car and is badly injured. I don't have any way to know if they're illegal or not. PD always comes to that kind of call,
are they supposed to try to figure out if the person is illegal or not? How? OK, it turns out they are. Do I leave the person crumpled on the road and go back to the station? Then what happens? Talk about a public relations nightmare! I wish it really was as easy as you say. But put the details together,how do we do it?
Steve, i tried to find the article you copy and pasted from, i got this
http://www.judicialwatch.org/weeklyupdate/2009/16-obama-amnesty-plan
If you try to click on the link to the original article, you get a message saying that the mercury news took the article down. Why? faulty reporting. There is no amnesty plan.
Diane, you are trying mix apples and onions, I have never seen anyone on the forum advocate no health care in accidents that result in emergencies. The health care that most are opposed to is non-accident sickness or normal health problems. In west Texas our hospital was losing Millions of dollars every year as the illegals would pour over the Border and come to the Emergensy rooms ready to have a baby, it served two purposes for the illegals, they got free health care and the baby was a U.S. Citizen. That must be stopped at the Border. Why should we provide Health Care for illegals.
Frawin, I agree with your point. Here, our emergency rooms are not only flooded with emergencies, but they come to emergency rooms with routine ailments. They know the system, they know the holes, and they will continue to take advantage of them as long as the holes are there.
Imo, this bill fixes that hole.
If Varmit and Steve and a few others say it, I'll believe it. I'm sure it's a real problem for the border states. But again, HOW does it get enforced? How does it get paid for? I don't see a lot of "no health care except in emergencies" comments. Who decides what an emergency is? If 911 dispatches us we go, no questions asked, even if we find out it's not what we call an emergency once we get there, we can't refuse. It's just not that simple for us. Also hospitals don't want to be sued. Besides, apples and onions are really good in the turkey stuffing. ;) I hope they can close the loop holes for all people who abuse the ER, not just illegals.
Quote from: Anmar on December 03, 2009, 04:09:33 PM
Steve, i tried to find the article you copy and pasted from, i got this
http://www.judicialwatch.org/weeklyupdate/2009/16-obama-amnesty-plan
If you try to click on the link to the original article, you get a message saying that the mercury news took the article down. Why? faulty reporting. There is no amnesty plan.
OBVIOUSLY you didn't try very hard. Try again and this time don't forget to search the ARCHIVES where all stories go after a period of time
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=SJ&p_theme=sj&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_dispstring=allfields(While%20acknowledging%20that%20the%20recession%20makes%20the%20political%20battle%20)%20AND%20date(2009)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=2009&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=(%22While%20acknowledging%20that%20the%20recession%20makes%20the%20political%20battle%20%22)&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no
Quote from: Diane Amberg on December 03, 2009, 04:35:16 PM
If Varmit and Steve and a few others say it, I'll believe it. I'm sure it's a real problem for the border states. But again, HOW does it get enforced? How does it get paid for? I don't see a lot of "no health care except in emergencies" comments.
exactly.
Who decides what an emergency is? [/quote]
Is death imminent if treatment isn't given? Then give them treatment to stabilize. Its the same thing they do to us if the American Citizen comes in with no insurance and no money. If i went in with a heart attack they would stabilize and move me to someplace like a hospice.
QuoteIf 911 dispatches us we go, no questions asked, even if we find out it's not what we call an emergency once we get there, we can't refuse. It's just not that simple for us. Also hospitals don't want to be sued. Besides, apples and onions are really good in the turkey stuffing. ;) I hope they can close the loop holes for all people who abuse the ER, not just illegals.
Its ok, i understand and agree that 911 you roll. But taking them to the hospital and then stabilization. From there they can move accordingly. Ever heard the saying membership has priviledges?
Steve, you just gave me the shivers and you don't have to answer, but you'd be sent to hospice if you have another heart attack? Did you mean what you said?
Yes, I know how to triage an emergency, but I don't work in the cashiers office and make up the bill either! I wish people would go over their bills line by line and be sure you and /or your insurance company pay only for care you actually got, not "whatever is customary". The cashiers will work with people to set up payment schedules and knock down prices if people are persistent enough. Of course I understand about privilege. as a volunteer I am well taken care of even though I've never asked for any special treatment.
I'm against Amnesty for illegal aliens. I think the most recent poll i saw was that 74% of the country is against Amnesty. Democrats want it done because they want more voters and Republicans want it done for the cheap labor, but I think if they ever try to push it through, the backlash will be so loud, the congress will have no choice but to vote it down as was done when McCain tried to push it through at the end of the Bush administration.
That being said, there are no current Amnesty proposals. You are posting unsourced rumors. Show me a bill, white house document, or presidential speech advocating amnesty. My contention is that there are none.
It may have been a campaign promise, i don't know. What i do know is that campaign promises aren't worth anything. The health care bill broke one promise already.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on December 03, 2009, 05:53:02 PM
Steve, you just gave me the shivers and you don't have to answer, but you'd be sent to hospice if you have another heart attack? Did you mean what you said?
If i were an illegal i would expect as much. You see the only reason anyone comes here illegallly is because they know they can get all this. If you start sending them back, stop giving them everything, they will stop coming illegally.
I have been turned away before and I had medicare. They sent me from that hospital to the one downtown atlanta.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on December 03, 2009, 06:11:03 PM
Yes, I know how to triage an emergency, but I don't work in the cashiers office and make up the bill either! I wish people would go over their bills line by line and be sure you and /or your insurance company pay only for care you actually got, not "whatever is customary". The cashiers will work with people to set up payment schedules and knock down prices if people are persistent enough. Of course I understand about privilege. as a volunteer I am well taken care of even though I've never asked for any special treatment.
I've yet to get an itemized bill from a hospital. They're bad about that.
Quote from: Sarah on December 03, 2009, 06:52:17 PM
I've yet to get an itemized bill from a hospital. They're bad about that.
They won't if you have insurance. They don't want you to see how much the negotiated rates are
I've never had a problem getting one when Al was in overnight 2years ago and when Daddy was in and died there in 2004. There were many pages because he was there for 9 days. I guess different places do different things.Surely you could get one if you asked.
Diane, no one is saying that emegerency care be denied. However, there are some reforms needed. For example, if an illegal sneaks into this country to have her baby and cannot be safely transported back to where she came from, then American citizenship should not be granted. To stop hospitals from being sued for some BS reason we need tort reform. not a takeover of our medical system. ER's should deny admitance for "routine" care, they should only accept "emegrency" patients.
Um, a lady in hard labor isn't considered routine care by hospitals. If they aren't in hard labor illegals don't go. Yes, they do know the system but that example won't fly. Turn them away for an earache? Sure. Toothache. Sure. But then again would you call an ambulance for a toothache? We just had one yesterday. 911 dispatched it, we had to take it. Screwy if you ask me. Yet jaw and toothache with an overall sick feeling can be a heart attack in older people. Go figure. It's not easy. Hospitals hate bad press.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on December 04, 2009, 02:08:46 PM
Um, a lady in hard labor isn't considered routine care by hospitals. If they aren't in hard labor illegals don't go. Yes, they do know the system but that example won't fly. Turn them away for an earache? Sure. Toothache. Sure. But then again would you call an ambulance for a toothache? We just had one yesterday. 911 dispatched it, we had to take it. Screwy if you ask me. Yet jaw and toothache with an overall sick feeling can be a heart attack in older people. Go figure. It's not easy. Hospitals hate bad press.
Jaw and tooth ache as well as back pain and neck pain are all signs of heart attack. For some reason and i don't know what prompted me to go in when it happened, but i was pouring a concrete pad by my shop one day and after working hard all afternoon on it i went to town with the boys. I think we went and got something to eat or something. Anyway my back started killing me when we set down to eat and i thought i had pulled something working with the cement. So on the way home it was hurting worse and so bad that i went to the ER. It was bad enough pain that i figured was going to take some heavy duty meds to kill it and the doctors office was closed.
They kept me. My enzyme count went skyhigh and they said I almost had a heart attack. I THought they were full of it and wouldn't let them transport me. They put me in a room and my cardiologist said to monitor me until morning. Next morning they were transporting me down to atlanta to do a cath as my enzyme levels came back as heart attack.
They say that referred pain is very common. I know women don't have the same symptoms as men. They tend to sweat, and have uhmm burning in shoulders and neck instead of angina chest pains.
I can say one thing. If you have had 1 heart attack and survive it, you will know when and if another heart attack is coming on. You never forget how it feels.
The similar subject was already observed somewhere at this thread