We now know from the testimony of various eyewitnesses that this act was carefully planned. Nidal Malik Hasan some time ago told his landlord he would not be renewing the lease on his apartment. He gave away his furniture along with copies of the Qur'an on the morning of the day he committed mass murder. This indicates that he thought he was going to die.... in other words, that he was planning a suicide attack. As he began firing, he shouted "Allahu Akbar."
We also know that he was disciplined for proselytizing for Islam during his stint at the Uniformed Service University of the Health Sciences. Law enforcement officials flagged Internet postings written by a man named "Nidal Hasan" and he was praising suicide attacks, but they couldn't be sure that he was the man who had written them. Still, it was in character: one of his colleagues recalled that he had said that Muslims must rise up against the U.S. military, and had spoken approvingly of Sgt. Hasan Akbar, a Muslim soldier in the U.S. military who lobbed a grenade at American troops, killing two, several years ago.
And we know that during a lecture he was supposed to be giving on a medical topic, he instead preached Islam, warning the assembled unbelievers of hellfire in such lurid Koranic terms that some left the hall wondering if he might end up shooting someone someday.
Why does the Media and Liberal-Left so reflexively deny and ignore these conclusions? Because they are completely sold out to the idea that Muslims, as non-white, non-Christian, non-Westerners, cannot possibly be anything but victims. (The facts that there are white Muslims, and that the jihad doctrine and Islamic supremacism are not racial issues, but constitute an ideological and societal challenge, are completely lost on them. Likewise the non-white victims of the jihad matter nothing to them.) We can see from the avalanche of "backlash" stories in the mainstream media... even in the absence of any actual backlash.... that it is simply impossible for these people to conceive of a paradigm in which Muslims can perpetrate any kind of evil at all. In the lenses through which they view the world, only white Judeo-Christian Westerners can do anything wrong.
Does this massacre, and the media response, indicate about what is coming down the line for our country? The more we remain in denial about how these things happen, and from what wellsprings they come, the more we will see of attacks like this. Why? Because nothing is being done to prevent them. Instead of the endless stories about backlash that we are seeing, we should be seeing stories about authorities calling the American Muslim community to account. We should be seeing stories about authorities demanding transparent, inspectable programs in American mosques and Islamic schools, teaching against the Islamic doctrines that inspired Nidal Hasan. This is not a religious freedom issue – these are political doctrines with a lethal edge, as Nidal Hasan illustrated. It is an entirely Constitutional matter of self-protection to move to restrict it.
But I'm afraid that won't happen. Political Correctness has the media and government and the MILITARY in a stranglehold. That will only ensure that nothing will be done to address this problem at its root, and we will see many more Nidal Hasans.
Hardly had the final shots been fired at Fort Hood and hospitals were filling up with the wounded that the media rushed to assign blame for the massacre, not of course to Nidal Malik Hassan, who had opened fire aiming to kill as many soldiers as possible, but on the US Army and on his fellow soldiers.
Completely ignoring his Islamic ideology and Palestinian Arab background, the media speculated that he might have been suffering from Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, even though he had never served in a combat zone, that he was angry over being deployed to Iraq, even though he had a history of pro-terrorist postings predating that, and finally that he had been bullied by other soldiers for being a Muslim, a claim that has since emerged as completely baseless. All of these however were ways of shifting the blame from Nidal Hassan and his Islamist ideology, and onto his victims, the men and women he had tried to kill, and the United States Army itself. Once again the media apparatchiks had decided that blame for a Muslim killing spree rested not with the perpetrator, but with his targets.
If Muslims follow a predictable pattern in their homicidal attacks, their Western Dhimmi apologists follow an equally predictable pattern, always willing to shift the blame onto anything and anyone, but the killers themselves and their hatefilled ideology. It's never Islam. Never the Koran. Instead it's always the general unfairness of our foreign policy, our flagwaving and our obstinate refusal to let Muslims have whatever part of the world they have their sights on today.
Once again, they kill us and yet somehow we're the ones to blame. Because we didn't love and nurture poor Nidal Malik Hassan enough. We didn't install enough foot baths, respect his religion hard enough and worst of all we presumed to make war on his brothers who had murdered thousands of us on September 11. That of course is our original sin, fighting back.
As we speak the media talking heads are still furrowing their great weary brows, scratching behind their ears and wondering, what could the motive possibly be. The FBI, which has no doubt gone through more sensitivity and tolerance sessions than Nidal Hassan spent with his ass in the air at his local mosque, is of course also searching hard for a motive.
Currently some of the talking heads (Chris Matthews in particular) are peddling PTSD by Proxy, to avoid the minor problem that Hassan had never actually served in combat. Should this brand of lunacy take hold, it would allow anyone and everyone who has been near people who might have conceivably had PTSD to claim PTSD by Proxy as if it were a cold virus passing through the air. Somehow this is made to seem more logical than that Nidal Hassan tried to kill a number of soldiers because he believed that his religion commanded him to do this. An event that had already occurred before and for which we have the evidence of his own words praising suicide bombers as heroes.
Thomas Kenniff, a former JAG who tried to bring some logic to the subject in his appearance on Larry King, was denounced as a racist for pouring cold water on the attempts to sell PTSD by Proxy as the motive, instead pointing to Hassan's radical beliefs. For this Krud OlberClown denounced him as the Worst Person in the World. Thomas Kenniff's crime was to interfere in the narrative that Larry King and just about everyone was trying to sell, of Nidal Hassan as another example of a worn out and overstressed US Army in which all the soldiers are on the breaking point. And good ol' Dr. Phil was leading the pack.
By ignoring the fact that 66 percent of the deliberate attacks within the US military by other soldiers, have involved Muslims... the media is engaging in blatant deceptiveness. Unless Muslims somehow suffer from a form of PTSD more severe than non-Muslim soldiers, or unless Muslims comprise 66 percent of the US military... both false statements.... it is obvious that the question of Islamic beliefs should be investigated as central to these acts of violence.
But PTSD is still the narrative the media insists on going with, and will insist on going with, even if Nidal Hassan comes on TV tomorrow and proclaims that he did it all for Allah. That is because PTSD fits the liberal narrative of blaming the media and exonerating Hassan specifically and Islam in general, while indicting the US and the military. It turns Hassan into a victim, and his victims into either co-victims or perpetrators.
Meanwhile the dominant narrative will be Nidal Hassan's suffering, his pain and his agony. Not that of his victims. All lies that will reveal that the media knows quite well why he did it. Had Nidan Hassan's name actually been Michael Smith, and had he actually been suffering from PTSD, the media would not be spending all this time defending him and exploring his pain. He did not simply commit his crimes because he is a Muslim, the media is defending him because he is a Muslim and in particular a terrorist.
These sorts of apologetics for terror have a long and shameful history for western liberals. When Hitler sent his troops goosestepping along, it wasn't his fault, but that of British and French Imperialism for oppressing the German people. Only when German troops attacked the homeland of socialism, the USSR, did they finally wake up long enough to get in front of the troops, until the war was over, and then American soldiers once again became the brutal occupiers who were preventing Western Europe from being "liberated" by the glorious Red Army.
Stalin too was never to blame for anything, it was all the Western spies and capitalist agents who were constantly trying to subvert the Great Socialist experiment who were at fault. And how could one blame Stalin for killing millions of them, when they kept popping up everywhere, doing such subversive things as eating, breathing and smiling at the wrong time. The same great heroes of Western Liberalism who put pen to bloody ink in advertisements supporting the Moscow Trials, would defend every Soviet atrocity and wail that American nuclear missiles were endangering the world. Not Soviet nuclear weapons of course. Never. Those were only a defensive response to Western imperialist aggression.
When the armies of four Arab nations (3 out of 4 of them run by Arab Socialist regimes, two of those being Baath Party dictatorships) prepared to invade Israel and "drive the Jews into the sea", the same liberals who would spend the next forty years after that war wailing about the plight of the Jordanians and Egyptians who had colonized Israeli territory and now found themselves inside Israel, aka the Palestinians, remained absolutely silent. The prospective genocide of millions of Jews only two decades after the Holocaust did not trouble them in the least. The Israelis were the ones to blame for presuming to build a country that the USSR and its Arab Socialist allies wanted to destroy.
Nazism and Communism are down for the count, and Arab Socialism is being rapidly replaced by Islamism. And the Islamists are the new murderers who are somehow always the victims. Always.
When a car bomb goes off in Kabul, the media quickly rushes to brush off their talking points about negotiating with the Taliban. When Muslim pirates take hostages, we're told that it's only because the poor dears are hungry and fighting against pollution, making them the world's first Islamic Pirate Environmentalists. When four airplanes are hijacked and aimed at national landmarks, naturally it's because of Muslim outrage over the long list of things they're currently outraged about. When rockets are fired at Israeli villages, clearly it's Israel for not making as many concessions to terrorists as everyone in the "world community" and various British labor unions thinks they should be making.
It is of course never the terrorists' fault. Heaven forbid. Ours is but to die and take the blame for the actions of our murderers.
wow, you really hate muslims. maybe you need counseling.
Tell me, When christians blew up the fed building in Oklahoma city, and working at the state department, you should know that the majority of terrorist attacks against americans are committed by Hispanics who are mostly catholic, did you write similar stuff?
I'm going to go ahead and assume that you didn't say a word.
Quote from: Anmar on November 09, 2009, 03:46:17 PM
wow, you really hate muslims. maybe you need counseling.
Tell me, When christians blew up the fed building in Oklahoma city, and working at the state department, you should know that the majority of terrorist attacks against americans are committed by Hispanics who are mostly catholic, did you write similar stuff?
I'm going to go ahead and assume that you didn't say a word.
Warph is just calling a spade a spade. Shrug. Need to pack em all up
Well, its too early to really call it anything other than a stupid act of senseless violence. I personally am not going to make up my mind about what happened until the army/FBI or whoever finishes their Investigation and makes some announcements. I trust them much more than i trust the media to give the correct Info, and they haven't said a lot of the things that are in Warphs little rant. What he's written comes from "the mainstream media" that you all hate so much.
Quote from: Anmar on November 09, 2009, 04:06:57 PM
Well, its too early to really call it anything other than a stupid act of senseless violence. I personally am not going to make up my mind about what happened until the army/FBI or whoever finishes their Investigation and makes some announcements. I trust them much more than i trust the media to give the correct Info, and they haven't said a lot of the things that are in Warphs little rant. What he's written comes from "the mainstream media" that you all hate so much.
I guarentee you the main stream media wouldn't touch what I wrote....
Anmar,
Do you really beleive the crap you write or are you just saying it for the sake of an arguement ??
I believe it. I didn't really say anything other than i want to see what the Army and FBI says, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
With that being said, I think with veterans day coming up, I'm going to be worried mroe about the victims than the guy who did it. I have faith in the Army to handle him.
Firing squad. Treason during war time.
No Diane, That sounds too easy. Don't you think" hanging by the neck until dead " would work on his sick mind better ? :)
I'm with you, Jarhead, just take him out to main street and put him on a platform with a noose around his neck. And, just before they drop him, have 72 virgins stand in a line in front of him and holler, "Hey, too bad. We won't be there for you. That virgin thing is just a joke. Bye Bye now."
Anmar, I usually take what the media says lightly and like you, wait for an official report. However, here are the facts:
This guy did the shooting.
Soldiers were killed and wounded.
I don't care what race, color, nationality, or religion he is. He is a killer.
Nothing to argue there.
Larryj
Larry, I agree with those facts. I just don't know anything else about it. I'm a bit surprised that people have already decided that they want to politicize the issue before the victims are even laid to rest. Frankly I'm trying to stay out of this subject for that reason.
The deaths of our soldiers shouldn't be used for politics. Neither should their lives for that matter.
Yeah - it is kinda difficult to figure out............................................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd8cRvZZv44&feature=emaill
Ok Jar...hanging, but which knot? The strangle asphyxiation knot, or the snap the 2nd vertebrae neck stretcher knot.
I hope we get to find out in our lifetime. I am sure this will be drug out for some time. There are so many victims here and it is sad to know how much less safe and secure our military families are going to feel now.
Ms Bear, I read that it's been a fair spell since the military executed anyone but this "terrorist " will probably get it. Might be 15 -20 years though.
Diane, I've changed my mind on hanging. It's too quick and not enough pain. I see where this terrorist liked to go to strip bars and pay for lap dances so he likes sex. So what I propose is tie his wrists to his ankles------naked------give a big ass Silver back Gorilla 4 viagra's and a jar of alum !!! No he might enjoy that so I'll try and think of another way. Sarge you got any ideas ?
Jarhead, while I appreciate your feelings on the subject I really wouldn't spend that much time on the S.O.B Just put a bullet in his head and be done with it.
Aw Varmit, you never want to have fun anymore !!!!. :) Just rerad where they executed that DC sniper tonight. He did his killings 7 years ago and got fried. Why do some murderers sit on death row for 20-25 years and some get the axe in 7 years ? Anyone ???
Anmar,
Are you related to anyone in Howard or did you just surf the internet and find the forum????? ??? ??? ???
That sniper was a little to close to home for me. It had this whole area upset for quite awhile. I'm glad he's finally gone.
Quote from: Jane on November 10, 2009, 09:01:27 PM
Anmar,
Are you related to anyone in Howard or did you just surf the internet and find the forum????? ??? ??? ???
I am not related to anyone in Howard. I do have 40+ relatives in Elk and Cowley counties. What does it matter?
Quote from: Anmar on November 10, 2009, 10:33:06 PM
I am not related to anyone in Howard. I do have 40+ relatives in Elk and Cowley counties. What does it matter?
Hey mooncalf.... you might have 40+ relatives but, do any of the 40 claim you as a relative?
Quote from: Anmar on November 09, 2009, 03:46:17 PM
wow, you really hate muslims. maybe you need counseling.
Tell me, When christians blew up the fed building in Oklahoma city, and working at the state department, you should know that the majority of terrorist attacks against americans are committed by Hispanics who are mostly catholic, did you write similar stuff?
I'm going to go ahead and assume that you didn't say a word.
I hate the ones that KILL Americans, mooncalf.... how about you ??? Tell me mooncalf, do you hate the person that killed 13 people at Ft. Hood ??? Give me your prospective on that .... and no Christians were involved blowing up the federal building in OK city. Where did you get that McVeigh and Nichols were christians... from some far-left hate site?
OK, so what were they then? I don't think they were Muslim.
mcveigh was catholic.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 11, 2009, 12:44:50 PM
OK, so what were they then? I don't think they were Muslim.
We could try for athiest or agnostic! I don't recall hearing that they were shouting "Maranatha" at any point in the process. I'm don't think the media associated them with a religion or religious sect. Probably because they, themselves, didn't associate their acts with a religion.
It seems sometimes that some people assume that just because a person is ango-saxon that they are to be associated with Christians? That would be a mistake. Just as assuming that any person with olive skin is a Muslim.
You're right.
you mean kinda like assuming someone who doesn't agree with you 100% is a raging liberal??
Quote from: pamsback on November 11, 2009, 01:26:30 PM
you mean kinda like assuming someone who doesn't agree with you 100% is a raging liberal??
No, I mean assuming that someone's religion can not be determined by the color of their skin. If a person's spoken statements align with liberalism, then....
Well, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck.... then quack! ;D
labal label label............wrap it up tight and force it into that round hole...........shit...damn thing don't fit...it's got SQUARE edges! NOW what do we do with it.......oh yeah...we heap abuse and ridicule on it....that'll round it off......shit that don't work either...STILL has square edges..........in fact they are gettin HARDER..........well hell.......I KNOW! We'll gang UP on it....wear it down that way..........it turns around...looks at you like the fools you are and goes on it's way.
??? Quack?
Be bewwy bewwy qwiet..... There is only one way to catch a unique duck... Unique up on it!
Quote from: Patriot on November 11, 2009, 02:05:13 PM
??? Quack?
If it makes you happy to think so LOL. My kind EATS ducks........ALL kinds of ducks. Ducks taste good.
ditto on the duck, a bit salty
Nice crispy skin..apples, celery and onions, roast duck is good, maybe even better than roast conservative! ;D
I read an interesting article from the AP. The military hasn't used the capital punishment since 1961. It seems like he's going to be tried in military court so they may break their tradition of leniency. It seems the preferred method is hanging, probably the neck-breaking fashion.
Quote from: Anmar on November 11, 2009, 06:23:17 PM
I read an interesting article from the AP. The military hasn't used the capital punishment since 1961. It seems like he's going to be tried in military court so they may break their tradition of leniency. It seems the preferred method is hanging, probably the neck-breaking fashion.
I won't jump to conclusions by a presumption of guilt, but I will say that if the guilty SOB is found guilty by a Court Martial and the death sentence is imposed, I would prefer they use rope to bullets or chemicals..... rope can be reused and would cost the taxpayers less.
This man is at very high risk of suicide.
Assisted suicide ??????
Patriot, I think its safe to say that he's guilty, there are questions left unanswered and i hope they keep him alive long enough to get those questions answered.
Yeah, like--------------------when did you first learn you were STUPID? What were you thinking? Was there a distinct cracking sound when your mind snapped?
Larryj
lol, something along those lines.
I'm thinking more along the lines of "where you helped and who helped you"
Maj. Hasan was charged yesterday with 13 counts of premeditated murder.
Doctors have told the Maj. Hasan he may be paralyzed from the waist down. He has no feeling in his legs and doctors say the condition may be permanent. In my humble opinion, the paralysis started in his brain the day he opened fire and killed 13 innocent people.
Allegedly Maj. Hasan, who as a Fort Hood official has said, yelled "Allahu Akbar"... Arabic for "God is Greatest".... just before the shooting in which 13 people were killed and 30 wounded.... had made attempts to coordinate with Al Qaeda through emails and this was well known to government officials. Likely the government officials are representatives of the military intelligence (MI) and the FBI. Maj. Hasan should have been under 24 hour surveillance until a decision was made to interview his ass. It is highly probable MI requested more government assistance than they in actuality received. Investigations such as these are briefed at the highest level of our government and there is little doubt politics and political correctness played an important role.
The person and people though who are ultimately responsible for these murders imo are Maj. Hasan, Islamic leaders who advocate and support the Al Qaeda ideology, and organizations such as the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) who support such terrorist groups behind the scenes.
General George W. Casey (Chief of Staff of the Army) needs to get some balls... support the innocent people who were killed by Maj. Hasan, and discontinue providing excuses and defenses for a terrorist. Political correctness is never the answer or solution to any issue, but in regards to terrorism it can and does lead to more deaths of people.
What is the reality staring us in the face? The reality is the Muslim Brotherhood... the jihadists... are super active in America.... our children are at risk... all religions.... and our country is in a war that will likely never end. Islamic based terrorist organizations are very patient.... do not quit... and do not conduct war in any lawful manner. Afghanistan should be an eye opener even for the most naïve. Al Qaeda and these other dim-witted jihadist out there, don't not have rules. Accept this or we will suffer as a country.
Right on Point, Warph!
The oldest lesson in warfare: Know thine enemy!
In America, for what ever excuse, we seem to have lost that lesson. And that can be fatal.... for people, cultures and nations.
Wake up, citizens! Your demise could be a hand.
Am I an alarmist? No, not usually. But if there IS a fire in the theater, then some damned fool needs to yell, "FIRE!"
CAIR? aren't they like the muslim version of the ACLU? What proof do you have that they support terrorism?
Do you advocate another patriot act type legislation or a general roundup of american muslims?
Quote from: Anmar on November 13, 2009, 02:34:40 PM
CAIR? aren't they like the muslim version of the ACLU? What proof do you have that they support terrorism?
Do you advocate another patriot act type legislation or a general roundup of american muslims?
Again anmar pull your head out of whatever your sticking it in. CAIR has always supported terror. They just got busted a couple months ago for something else of which i can't remember what it is. I think it has something to do with some mosques and assets that iran has in this country that we are siezing and cair is in support of the terror network that owns these assets.
That wasn't CAIR. That was an organization run by the iranian government. CAIR is an organization run by muslim americans.
eh, I'm reading about CAIR, I'm man enough to admit they've been involved in some shady things, but the incident you are referring to steve wasn't CAIR.
Quote from: Anmar on November 13, 2009, 02:34:40 PM
CAIR? aren't they like the muslim version of the ACLU? What proof do you have that they support terrorism?
Do you advocate another patriot act type legislation or a general roundup of american muslims?
That's not saying much for CAIR comparing them to ACLU.
Hamas, anmar... Hamas.
I advocate a general roundup of ALL Muslims who have any ties to Islamic terrorists' who want to bring down this country. Ship them out!
even the citizens?
What citizens? Who are you talking about?
Quote from: Warph on November 13, 2009, 09:09:31 PM
I advocate a general roundup of ALL Muslims who have any ties to Islamic terrorists' who want to bring down this country. Ship them out!
Why? If we do that then we will just have to go somewhere else and deal with them. Just kill'em and be done with it.
Quote from: Anmar on November 13, 2009, 09:14:46 PM
even the citizens?
If they have ties to terrorists,...yes. Because at that point they become traitors.
Quote from: Anmar on November 13, 2009, 09:14:46 PM
even the citizens?
If citizens are giving aid and comfort to the enemy, they are no longer citizens. Their traitors.
Yup, round up all those Japanese Americans and....oh, wait, wrong war. I wasn't aware Muslim terrorists and their families and friends wore identifying hats or badges. Or are you advocating raiding mosques during services and shooting them all ?
How about doing something that might actually work, like being aware of your surroundings and listening to what the police and Public Safety people have to say? Homeland security has been made aware of some credible threats (IED's) at big shopping malls and city downtown shopping areas during the holiday shopping season. That information has been sent to everyone who needs to know at the local levels. We had our report at the firehouse last night. Just be aware of suspicious behavior, orphaned packages and such, especially in holiday displays, shrubbery, trash cans, dumpsters and bathrooms. With people carrying shopping bags,and packages, its hard to know what's not normal.
You guys are starting to sound like Nazis
Me? How?
Quote from: srkruzich on November 14, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
If citizens are giving aid and comfort to the enemy, they are no longer citizens. Their traitors.
Yeah... war is hell... and I think that sometimes people forget that we are at WAR!
Considering all the young friends I have coming and going from "over there" and all the bodies coming to Dover, I don't know how anyone could forget. And that's just me. Families are touched by this in every state. I'm sure no one forgets, but for the sake of kids who have had this going on for 8 years now, trying to be "normal" is a good thing too. My own Fire Chief will be at Arlington for a ceremony on Sunday. He would much rather be here with Al and me going to the county fire prevention awards luncheon that's at the same time.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 11:41:23 AM
Yup, round up all those Japanese Americans and....oh, wait, wrong war. I wasn't aware Muslim terrorists and their families and friends wore identifying hats or badges. Or are you advocating raiding mosques during services and shooting them all ?
What part of "...if they have ties to terrorists..." didn't you read?
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 12:39:07 PM
You guys are starting to sound like Nazis
No, we aren't. Nazi's advocated violence against peaceful people. We are not doing that. We are advocating violence against those that we ARE AT WAR WITH. You see, that is how war works, you kill the enemy before he can kill you.
The Nazi's said the same thing about the Jews.
Anmar are you muslim???
Varmit, how do you know who has "ties " to terrorists? People don't trust our own intellegence any more. Some of you have made comments about how poor it is because it's "dose Gubberment" people again. They were wrong on Sadam apparently and the Gov't people over there are so corrupt, and have been for so many years, who does anyone trust and believe? This is a very tough subject.
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 06:25:39 PM
The Nazi's said the same thing about the Jews.
No they didn't, the nazis said the jews were inferior and stole and were the cause of their financial woes because they were thieves. Big difference there anmar. Muslims are killing indiscriminately every day anyone that is not muslim or is American or one of their allies. The last i checked, the jews did not go blowing up german citizens, nor hacking their heads off with machetes because they weren't jews.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 07:55:01 PM
Varmit, how do you know who has "ties " to terrorists? People don't trust our own intellegence any more. Some of you have made comments about how poor it is because it's "dose Gubberment" people again. They were wrong on Sadam apparently and the Gov't people over there are so corrupt, and have been for so many years, who does anyone trust and believe? This is a very tough subject.
Follow the money.
I cannot believe ANYONE would put up a defense for a terrorist ! How can you do that????
Quote from: Jo McDonald on November 14, 2009, 08:12:20 PM
I cannot believe ANYONE would put up a defense for a terrorist ! How can you do that????
Well Jo the ones he's defending are the ones who support the terrorists with their money and aid. They aren't terrorists but they are traitors.
Not all muslims are terrorists, and traitors but the current day terrorists are muslim and the ones who defend them and support them are traitors.
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 06:25:39 PM
The Nazi's said the same thing about the Jews.
That may be true and your Nazi comparison would be accurate if the Jews had done the things that muslims are doing.
Steve and Jo, thats a pretty flagrant mischaracteriziation of my viewpoint. I'm shocked that you would call me a traitor.
I'm see myself as defending the constitutional rights of Americans, regardless of their religion or ethnicity. Its easy for all of us to sit around and claim our God given rights for ourselves, but a true believer of the constitution will recognize that all American citizens, regardless of creed, origin, or belief is also deserving of those rights.
If a crime is committed, and rights need to be taken away, we have a system for doing that. Trying to send them to other countries is stupid, sorry billy. What makes you think they won't stop trying to blow things up from another country? Certainly some organizations have been investigated and steps have been taken, however we need to be very careful in the powers that we grant our government to undertake these investigations. Billy, you rail against the patriot act and I agree with you on many of those points. Remember that we have the patriot act because the Neocons were able to scare people using the attacks of 9/11.
Many of you claim that Obama is a socialist, and that you all want to limit the pwoers of government. Why then would you want to give the federal government more power? If you decide to allow people to be persecuted for their thoughts, where is the line drawn? Whats to stop Rahmbo from deciding one day that he wants the conservative right wing to be imprisoned and deported for their thoughts?
All of you rail against muslims and characterize them as terrorists. Of the 24 acts of terror committed here in the USA over the last 3 years, only 2 were committed by muslims. In an article from 2005, the FBI says that the two largest threats in the USA of terrorism are the ELF (environmental, animal rights groups) and far-right fringe groups. Frankly, I believe the intelligence community were so blind to this because they were being used to watch right wing and left wing fringe groups. In a few months, those resources and whatever new powers you give them are once again going to be focused on those political groups.
I think a lot of you are way off base on this one. In the words of Ben Franklin
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
The truth is that many of you are fairweather folk. When times are good and life is a little easier, you all like to talk about how great this country is (and it is great) but once something negative happens, you want to throw all that greatness out the window because you're scared and you want revenge. Sorry folks, thats not how freedom works.
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 09:36:39 PM
Steve and Jo, thats a pretty flagrant mischaracteriziation of my viewpoint. I'm shocked that you would call me a traitor.
Do you support terrorists financially, or give aid and comfort to them? IF you do then yeah you would be. Thats the definition that qualifies one to be a traitor.
QuoteI'm see myself as defending the constitutional rights of Americans, regardless of their religion or ethnicity. Its easy for all of us to sit around and claim our God given rights for ourselves, but a true believer of the constitution will recognize that all American citizens, regardless of creed, origin, or belief is also deserving of those rights.
I'm sorry but IF a American Citizen gave aid and comfort to the enemy, or supported the enemy financially they forfeit their constitutional rights. THey are traitors.
QuoteMany of you claim that Obama is a socialist, and that you all want to limit the pwoers of government. Why then would you want to give the federal government more power? If you decide to allow people to be persecuted for their thoughts, where is the line drawn?
whos persecuting anyone for their thoughts? We have been talking about those that support and give aid and comfort to the enemy. Thats actions not thoughts.
QuoteAll of you rail against muslims and characterize them as terrorists.
No we said that were at war with muslim terrorists.
QuoteOf the 24 acts of terror committed here in the USA over the last 3 years, only 2 were committed by muslims. In an article from 2005, the FBI says that the two largest threats in the USA of terrorism are the ELF (environmental, animal rights groups) and far-right fringe groups. Frankly, I believe the intelligence community were so blind to this because they were being used to watch right wing and left wing fringe groups. In a few months, those resources and whatever new powers you give them are once again going to be focused on those political groups.
I agree, we should treat them as terrorists and anyone supporting them are traitors too. THe only way terrorists can survive is through the financial support as well as aid and comfort to those who will commit terror acts.
Quote"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
The truth is that many of you are fairweather folk. When times are good and life is a little easier, you all like to talk about how great this country is (and it is great) but once something negative happens, you want to throw all that greatness out the window because you're scared and you want revenge. Sorry folks, thats not how freedom works.
I don't think thats the case. I know i have warned against islamic terror for 20+ years. As well as this government circumventing constitutional authority given. I used to stay under the radar but now we need to be standing out there telling folks.
Steve, sorry if i misread your previous post, it looked as though you were calling me a traitor
BTW while we have ELF, ALF, PETA, and ahost of other terror groups, the one that is the most dangerous at this point in time, the one that kills innocents indescriminatly is Islam. That is why their mentioned the most.
What is surprising is that you fail to recognize that what folks ahve been telling us for years what will happen is happening now. Think that the fort hood attack was a quirk? think again. They planned and coordinated that attack. Its purpose is to demoralize the troops. We will see in the near future if this administration doesn't get off its butt with alqueda, we will see IEDs on our interstates, in our malls, parks, schools ect. Imagine if a series of IEDS were setup in a interstate corridor with rushour traffic in a metro area. What about a mall at christmas time. we have trains subways, all kinds of places that would be easy to get to.
Keeping it over on their turf was the best way to stop them from coming here.
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 09:51:49 PM
Steve, sorry if i misread your previous post, it looked as though you were calling me a traitor
Anmar If i had called you that there would be no misunderstanding :)
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 07:55:01 PM
Varmit, how do you know who has "ties " to terrorists? People don't trust our own intellegence any more. Some of you have made comments about how poor it is because it's "dose Gubberment" people again. They were wrong on Sadam apparently and the Gov't people over there are so corrupt, and have been for so many years, who does anyone trust and believe? This is a very tough subject.
Where to start...if a mosque (or anyone) sends money or offers support to people looking to kill Americans or her allies, they're terrorists. As for not trusting our intellegence anymore, some do and some don't. To say that Sadam was anything other than a terrorists and a thug is naive. Any idea how many people killed?...
As for you "dose Gubberment" people remark...Two things, 1. our intellegence community has been hindered by politicans giving Constitutional Rights to terrorists. Citing that pows have a right to council and "their day in court". They have put the welfare of our enemies above that of America. That in and of itself should be considered a treasonous act. 2. With the use of the language of your statement you have labeled anyone that speaks out against the actions of our politicans as lacking the intelligence to hold a reasonable debate on the issue. And while I may be a "blue collar redneck" with public education and a community college degree that lives in "fly over" country, I have never spoken with the lack of intelligence you suggest. Your obvious contempt for "my kind" is quite frankly, shocking. Espcially coming from a teacher. Whatever happened to the respect of diversity.
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 09:36:39 PM
I'm see myself as defending the constitutional rights of Americans, regardless of their religion or ethnicity. Its easy for all of us to sit around and claim our God given rights for ourselves, but a true believer of the constitution will recognize that all American citizens, regardless of creed, origin, or belief is also deserving of those rights.
No one is saying that they don't.
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 09:36:39 PM
If a crime is committed, and rights need to be taken away, we have a system for doing that. Trying to send them to other countries is stupid, sorry billy. What makes you think they won't stop trying to blow things up from another country?
First of all, I haven't advocated sending them anywhere. What I said was, kill them. I agree that sending them to another country won't solve the problem, only delay it. Also, as far as them blowing things up from another country, so long as their targets aren't American we have no right to interfere, isn't that your stance on it? So why should Americans be concerned about it?..
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 09:36:39 PM
Many of you claim that Obama is a socialist, and that you all want to limit the pwoers of government. Why then would you want to give the federal government more power? If you decide to allow people to be persecuted for their thoughts, where is the line drawn? Whats to stop Rahmbo from deciding one day that he wants the conservative right wing to be imprisoned and deported for their thoughts?
No one has stated that people should be imprisoned for their thoughts, only their actions. No one has stated that they want the gov't to have more power, only enforce the laws that they have and defend their country. And before you go off about how we said that all muslims should be shot, we didn't say that either. Treason is a crime punishable by death. Muslim citizens (and anyone else) that give aid and comfort to the enemy are commiting acts of treason.
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 09:36:39 PM
All of you rail against muslims and characterize them as terrorists. Of the 24 acts of terror committed here in the USA over the last 3 years, only 2 were committed by muslims.
Tell me, how many planes have been hijacked in the name of the enviroment, or animal rights, or white power, or the militas? How many U.S. warships have been attacked by GreenPeace?
We rail against musilm terrorists because they are who we are at war with.
Quote from: Anmar on November 14, 2009, 09:36:39 PM
The truth is that many of you are fairweather folk. When times are good and life is a little easier, you all like to talk about how great this country is (and it is great) but once something negative happens, you want to throw all that greatness out the window because you're scared and you want revenge. Sorry folks, thats not how freedom works.
You support muslims and you want to talk about freedom? Please. Scared, no...do I want revenge, hell yes. Tell me something Anmar, what have you done to ensure that America remains a free country, safe from those who seek her destruction? Have you ever picked up a rifle in her defense? Or are you one of those who likes to sit on the side and talk about preserving freedom and leave the actual fighting to those with enough balls to do it?
The motto of the former Strategic Air Command (SAC) was: "The price of peace is eternal vigilance"
It seems that somewhere after the cold war we lost that understanding. Now, we are at war. And the perpetrators of war against the US are operating within our own borders. We need to regain the stomach as a nation to fight a war. And when acts of terrorism are committed by citizens (be they Muslim, atheist, Jew, Hindu, Christian or other), then they have committed treason as well... and the penalty of death should be imposed.
Of the current war (the killing war, not the political war), it's been said before: Not all Muslims are terrorists, but 99.9% of all terrorist acts against the US have been committed by Muslims. So let's at least call it what it is: Radical Muslim Terrorism. And let's not let political correctness and a misguided sense of graciousness stand in the way of dealing with known terrorists in a way that diminishes the threat to the rest of our law abiding citizens.
Many (if not most) Americans (and it seems ALL American politicians) seem unable to see or refuse to see that we are fighting a war based rooted religious beliefs. Those who fight for what they believe is an eternal purpose are devout enemies indeed. Again, our political correctness will be our downfall if we fail to understand the devotion that our enemies have to our demise. There ARE righteous wars, and to defeat an enemy who wants us enslaved and/or completely destroyed, who are willing to kill themselves and innocents in the process, makes the war we are in righteous.
Fight or die. The choice is yours. As for me? I choose to fight. And unless I'm in a position to see and destroy that enemy, I will hold to the old SAC motto, and keep vigilant!
Well said, Billy!! Pretty smart for "blue collar redneck in fly-over country." I agree with you totally. It makes no difference what race, religion or nationality a person is. If that person commits a crime here in, or against the United States of America, they should be punished. There are too many people trying to draw fine lines here. "Do the crime, do the time."
Larryj
Quote from: srkruzich on November 14, 2009, 09:55:52 PM
BTW while we have ELF, ALF, PETA, and ahost of other terror groups, the one that is the most dangerous at this point in time, the one that kills innocents indescriminatly is Islam. That is why their mentioned the most.
What is surprising is that you fail to recognize that what folks ahve been telling us for years what will happen is happening now. Think that the fort hood attack was a quirk? think again. They planned and coordinated that attack. Its purpose is to demoralize the troops. We will see in the near future if this administration doesn't get off its butt with alqueda, we will see IEDs on our interstates, in our malls, parks, schools ect. Imagine if a series of IEDS were setup in a interstate corridor with rushour traffic in a metro area. What about a mall at christmas time. we have trains subways, all kinds of places that would be easy to get to.
Keeping it over on their turf was the best way to stop them from coming here.
Adding to what Steve just said, Islam is a religion of conquest, not peace. The only "peace" Islam preaches is the "peace" wherein the entire world is subject to Sharia Law and acknowledges that Allah is God and Mohammed is his prophet. Muslims cannot renounce a single word in the Koran for every word, according to them, proceeded from Allah's mouth. Mohammed is the "perfect" man to Muslims, so if he killed infidels.... married 9 year-old girls.... slaughtered thousands of people... married his nephew's wife.... and called Jews 'pigs and monkeys'.... then nothing he said or did is to be questioned or doubted.
Islam also, is a religion of 'black and white' of, 'if you're not with me, you're against me', of the supremacy of men over women, of jihad as the surest way of attaining paradise. A 'religion of peace' would not advocate jihad as the most perfect service to Allah and the guarantee to heavenly bliss.
The myth that Islam is a religion of peace can only survive and thrive where there is complete ignorance of its history and teachings. It is this ignorance which will see the islamization of Europe in 10-20 years and of the US as well. Political correctness is the blindfold that Islam uses to keep us from seeing its brutality and barbarism. In all fairness, you can't blame Muslims for political correctness, although they've certainly learned to exploit it in order to push Sharia norms. Until we are too intimidated by the threat of physical violence to speak the truth about political Islam, as are many in Europe, then it is not Sharia which threatens our freedom of speech, and the fault for that lies squarely on non-Muslims.
After all, it's not so much fear of what radical political Muslims think which causes non-Muslims to clam up as it is fear of what one's non-Muslim peers will think. Nobody but Obama cares what jihadists think of him.
Political correctness is just one of the ways in which leftism enables Sharia, other obvious ones being a hatred for Judeo-Christian traditions and morals... the welfare state.... the diffusion of individual responsibility.... a victim mindset.... an entitlement culture. One day Islam will slit our throats while we're wearing that blindfold, just as the barbarians in Iraq slit the throats of their captives while recording their dastardly deed
Warph, aren't you jewish?
Well Varmit, ya did it again, you started out fine, gave me your opinion, and I agree with much of what you said, but you had to take a bite out of me personally before you were done. Contempt? Hardly from my side. As for you labeling where you live, and your education, those are your words, not mine. You just don't know how to debate an issue with out making it personal. I am not the enemy here.Taking a serious subject and turning into a slap at me....typical brown shirt stuff. And before you point that gnarly finger at me, no I'm not Muslim. Sheesh!
Diane, how would you explain your comment other than personal?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 14, 2009, 07:55:01 PM
Some of you have made comments about how poor it is because it's "dose Gubberment" people again.
The language you used is very similar, if not the same type used to degrade those that do not fall into step with the Left. All to often conservatives and folks like myself are seen as some backwoods redneck types with an 8th grade education (at best) and a cousin for a sibling.
In short, you gave the first slap. You could have worded your comment differently, for example, instead of "dose Gubberment" you could've used "the Government" or "the damn Government" or "our Government". Instead you chose to use a derogatory turn of phrase when refering to people of a different opinion.
Good grief! Once again its all about you?
Then please explain why you chose to word your "dose Gubberment" statement in the way you did.
Updated December 09, 2009
Republicans Accuse White House of Sitting on Fort Hood Review
By Judson Berger
- FOXNews.com
The White House has been sitting on a preliminary review of the Fort Hood shooting since the end of November and refuses to share its contents with Congress, House Republicans say.
Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee have been pressing the Obama administration to either provide a copy of the review or brief them on it, arguing that it's important for relevant members to be in the loop as the review goes forward.
"They're stonewalling us. They won't give us anything," Rep. Mac Thornberry, R-Texas, told FoxNews.com. "They have just refused to brief Congress any further on this whole matter. ... It doesn't make sense to me."
The National Security Council last month took control over informational briefings on the Nov. 5 shooting rampage, which left 13 dead and dozens wounded at the Texas base. The preliminary report from intelligence agencies was due at the end of November.
A White House spokesman said in an e-mail Wednesday that the reason members of Congress have not been briefed on the report is because, "We're reviewing it."
But Thornberry said the White House is obligated to share the information it has. He cited the National Security Act of 1947.
He said he doesn't know whether the contents of the report have had any bearing on the administration's reluctance to part with it.
"I don't know if they don't like the information, (if it's) inconsistent with some sort of agenda or they're just trying to keep a real tight hold and control it completely," he said.
Debate has raged in Washington over whether law enforcement and intelligence circles missed obvious warning signs from Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan and over whether the attack should be considered an act of Islamic terrorism. A task force overseen by the FBI learned last year of Hasan's repeated contact with a radical cleric in Yemen.
Amid the furor, the White House has urged Congress to hold off on its own investigations until the proper authorities complete their reviews. President Obama in November asked lawmakers resist the urge to turn a "tragic event" into "political theater."
But Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., ranking Republican on the intelligence committee, has led the charge to make sure lawmakers are at least in the loop.
In a Dec. 3 letter, he wrote Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair complaining that he has not yet received a briefing even though the report has been handed in.
Hoekstra spokesman Jamal Ware said Blair has indicated his willingness to cooperate, but that the White House seems to be "blocking" the report.
"We don't know why," Ware said. "The goal here ultimately has to be preventing a recurrence of this."
Hasan was charged in the killings last month.
Why would the military be pressed to make it's preliminary findings public? They don't gotta!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on December 10, 2009, 10:48:45 AM
Why would the military be pressed to make it's preliminary findings public? They don't gotta!
No, ....they don't have to. But.... the WH needs to formally keep both parties up-to-date on what's ACTUALLY going on because this is a hot potato issue. You, like me, probably hate to see politicans getting involved in this. I agree....this has to do with the military justice system and I hope they make sure that they have done everything correctly before releasing any info to politicians or the MSM who are trying to make hay. We all know that this was a deliberate act of terrorism and the SOB should go before the firing squad, wheelchair and all.
Here is something else that has popped up recently: Somebody at Fort Hood Should Be Walking the Plank
Andy McCarthy - National Review - 12/03/09Prepare to be infuriated.
It's been brought to my attention by several reliable sources that the Defense Department has brought Louay Safi to Fort Hood as an instructor, and that he has been lecturing on Islam to our troops in Fort Hood who are about to deploy to Afghanistan. Safi is a top official of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and served as research director at the International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT).
Worse, last evening, Safi was apparently permitted to present a check (evidently on behalf of ISNA) to the families of the victims of last month's Fort Hood massacre. A military source told the blogger Barbarossa at the Jawa Report: "This is nothing short of blood money. This is criminal and the Ft. Hood base commander should be fired right now."
ISNA was identified by the Justice Department at the Holy Land Foundation terrorism financing conspiracy trial as an unindicted co-conspirator. The defendants at that trial were convicted of funding Hamas to the tune of millions of dollars. This should have come as no surprise. ISNA is the Muslim Brotherhood's umbrella entity for Islamist organizations in the United States. It was established in 1981 to enable Muslims in North America "to adopt Islam as a complete way of life" — i.e., to further the Brotherhood's strategy of establishing enclaves in the West that are governed by sharia. As I detailed in an essay for the April 20 edition of NR, the Brotherhood's rally-cry remains, to this day, "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Koran is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope." The Brotherhood's spiritual guide, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who issued a fatwa in 2004 calling for attacks on American forces in Afghanistan, openly declares that Islam will "conquer America" and "conquer Europe."
Also established in 1981, the IIIT is a Saudi funded think-tank dedicated, it says, to the "Islamicization of knowledge" — which, Zeyno Baran (in Volume 6 of the Hudson Institute's excellent series, "Current Trends in Islamist Ideology") has aptly observed, "could be a euphemism for the rewriting of history to support Islamist narratives." Years ago, the Saudis convinced the United States that the IIIT should be the military's go-to authority on Islam. One result was the placement of Abdurrahman Alamoudi to select Muslim chaplains for the armed forces. Alamoudi has since been convicted of terrorism and sentenced to 23 years in federal prison.
As noted in this 2003 Frontpage report, 2002 search warrant links Safi to an entity called the "Safa Group." The Safa Group has never been charged with a crime, but the affidavit allegest its involvement in moving large sums of money to terrorist fronts. Safi was also caught on an FBI wiretap of Sami al-Arian, a former leader in the murderous Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ). The year was 1995, and the topic of the discussion between Safi and al-Arian was Safi's concern that President Clinton's executive order prohibiting financial transactions with terrorist organizations would negatively affect al-Arian. More recently, al-Arian has been convicted of conspiring to provide material support to terrorism.
At Human Events a couple of months back, Rowan Scarborough had a disturbing report about the FBI's "partnering" efforts with Islamist groups — including the very same ISNA that the Justice Department had cited as an unindicted co-conspirator in the terrorism financing conspiracy. A prominent figure in the report was Louay Jafi:
Safi is a Syrian-born author who advocates Muslim American rights through his directorship of ISNA's Leadership Development Center. He advocates direct talks between Washington and Iran's leaders. He has spoken out against various law enforcement raids on Islamic centers.
In a 2003 publication, "Peace and the Limits of War," Safi wrote, "The war against the apostates [non-believers of Islam] is carried out not to force them to accept Islam, but to enforce the Islamic law and maintain order."
He also wrote, "It is up to the Muslim leadership to assess the situation and weigh the circumstances as well as the capacity of the Muslim community before deciding the appropriate type of jihad. At one stage, Muslims may find that jihad, through persuasion or peaceful resistance, is the best and most effective method to achieve just peace." [ACM: Implicitly, this concedes there is a time for violent jihad, too.]
At ISNA's annual convention in Washington in July, one speaker, Imam Warith Deen Umar, criticized Obama for having two Jewish people — Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod — in the White House. "Why do this small number of people have control of the world?" he said, according to a IPT transcript. He said the Holocast was punishment for Jews "because they were serially disobedient to Allah."
[Steven] Emerson's group [the Investigative Project on Terrorism] collected literature at the convention approved for distribution by ISNA. It said the pamphlets and books featured "numerous attempts to portray U.S. prosecution of terrorists and terror supporters as anti-Muslim bigotry; dramatic revisionist history that denied attacks by Arab nations and Palestinian terrorists against Israel; anti-Semitic tracts and hyperbolic rants about a genocide and holocaust of Palestinians."
Asked if the FBI should sever ties with ISNA, Emerson said, "ISNA is an unindicted co-conspirator. It's a Muslim Brotherhood group. I think in terms of legitimacy there should be certain expectations of what the group says publicly. If it continues to espouse jihad and anti-Semitism, I think it nullifies it right to have the FBI recognize it."
If you want to get a sense of the garbage our troops are being forced to endure in Fort Hood's classrooms, check out Jihad Watch, where my friend Bob Spencer has more on this episode and on his prior jousts with Safi, here, here, and here.
What on earth is this government doing, and will Congress please do something about it?
(Yeah.... good questions!!)