Elk County Forum

Why should I vote yes for a bond issue for a gradeschool in Howard, Kansas when I live in Moline, and we have a functioning gradeschool? Why should I vote for a new gradeschool in Howard when that town already has a school that is large enough to accomodate the entire student population in the entire district? Why should I vote for a new gradeschool in Howard when the student population is dwindling, and has been dwindling for many years , and continues to do so? Why should I vote for a new gradeschool in Howard, and in the process raise my taxes to an admittedly $100.00 plus per year, and probably much more when the cost overruns come in, and they invariably do so. My taxes have doubled in the past nine years, I simply cannot bear much more. Most people here live on fixed income as do I. There is a limit to our resources. I am also concerned about losing our gradeschool, Grenola had a very nice school, and it was closed in favor of Howard. That struck a mortal blow to the community. Will this happen to Moline? The loss of a school, and grocery store are death knells to a community. Moline will very soon have a good supply of quality water, something that Howard lacks. Just another thought. Convince me.

SixDogs,

I will try to give you my thoughts on the bond election. You raise valid questions. I will answer one of them now. I will be back later, to discuss more, after completing the rest of todays activities.

You commented on the increase in taxes and stated "probably much more when the cost overruns come in, and they invariably do so."  The bond is set at $5.55 million because this is the amount the Construction Manager (Hutton Construction) has committed to as a "cost not to exceed".  That means this is a guaranteed maximum price.  We, the district, will not be on the hook for cost overruns if there is any.  Cost overruns will be the responsibility of the Construction Manager.  The question on the ballot clearly states that the bonds will be sold for an amount not to exceed $5.55 million.

Thanks,

David Whetstone

I realize that something needs to be done or we will ALL loose our schools.  I understand that if the district is to build a central elementary school, it will cost all the district patrons.  I believe Piedmont, Climax and Fall River are prime examples of towns that lost their schools.  I would hate to see Severy and Moline become less than they are now.  I grew up in Severy.  I raised my daughters in Severy.  I went 12 years of school in Severy.  I'm like SDM, I am on a very limited income and am very very concerned about how much this will raise my taxes.  Already paying twice what I paid in Greenwood county, and that again, I understand, is based on county population, but there has to be a stopping place somewhere if you want to keep us homeowners who live on a tight budget in your district. I still have a granchild in this school system.  She deserves the very best.  But, I still must worry about how I will make ends meet if they keep stretching the middle.  I have real mixed feeling about this school bond issue and have yet to convince myself that it is necessary.  Better make a decision before long, tho, as voting day will be here before you know it.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on September 29, 2009, 02:07:57 PM
Why should I vote yes for a bond issue for a grade school in Howard, Kansas when I live in Moline, and we have a functioning grade school?

The current configuration of the three campus system with the number of students that we have is not sustainable.

We can not afford to keep three buildings open now because they are costing us too much to maintain.  We have deferred fixing things that are very expensive to fix just because we do not have the budget to fix them.  But that does not mean they do not need fixed to provide a viable school for many years.  The current grade school buildings are 40+ years old.  The "new" high school is 30 years old.  Old buildings have old expensive building problems. For example the north half of one building roof needs to be replaced.  The boiler systems at both grade schools have about used up their useful life span. The entire water system inside the Severy building is a patch connected to another patch.   
It all adds up to over a million dollars of deferred maintenance that needs to be done to keep the current system. 
That doesn't fix any of the other more important problems the district has with the educational funding and program side of the equation.
You said that your taxes have already doubled. With the 15 years with the plan in place your taxes (LOB) for education would go down.  Voting no does not address any of the issues we are facing.

These questions need to be answered now even though the answers themselves won't fix the problem.  Voting "Yes" in November is what will fix the problem.  The problem as I see it is that we are going to lose our whole school system if we don't come up with something soon.  We need to stop spending money on old inadequate buildings now.  As for taxes, we built a new grade school in Severy and the taxes didn't break us.  We built a new high school down here and the taxes didn't break us.  Of course we weren't on a limited income at the time, but there were people that were.  My taxes have gone up each year that I have owned Elk County property without making any major improvements in the county.  At least we would have something to show for the tax raise.  Somehow or other I will manage.

I didn't have 12 years of school at Severy, but my daughters did.  Two of them finished their schooling at North Elk and West Elk.  I have two great grandchildren in the school system here.  One goes to Severy, the other to Moline.  I will be voting "Yes" no matter what the answers to the questions are.

One more thing---- what provisions are being made for the old buildings? I think it would be very irresponsible to just walk away as has been done in so many communities. Pep, didn't you post before that the Moline school was the most energy efficient of the three buildings, and that the 'new' highschool was the worst? How will that be addressed? How will building a gradeschool in Howard help that situation?

Wilma, I think they should make you the Poster Grandmother for the Bond Issue, you said that very well. I am a taxpayer in Elk County and I would vote for it if I could.

I support the bond even though I don't have children or grandchildren in the school system here. I support it because consolidating West Elk into one campus is the only way we're going to keep an elementary school in this part of the county. Elk Valley does a fine job of serving the southern part, but is it equipped to take the rest of Elk County grade schoolers when Severy and Moline schools become impossible to maintain? I've seen both of the schools, and the upkeep is only going to grow more expensive in the coming years. As pepelect mentioned, there is quite a lot of redundancy spending -- utilities, food services, phone and so on-- that instead could be used to hire and keep good teachers and offer the courses kids need to compete in the working world. If I were a parent of school-aged kids, I would be far more interested in education quality than building proximity. I'd hate to think Elk County kids could end up in Eureka or Sedan because voters decided keeping two old buildings open was a higher priority.

So---- would you supporters vote for it if you knew it meant the death of your town?

Pep, are there provisions to remove or repurpose the existing buildings? I know it was discussed to have that expense included in the financing so there wouldn't be a repeat of the Howard mess, but I haven't heard any more about it.

Elk County is the smallest county and Howard the smallest town I've ever lived in. I've not lived in a town with fewer than three grade schools, so I don't know firsthand how closing an elementary could devastate a town in the way SDM is describing. Is it the employment factor? The busing? I can certainly understand there is some nostalgia involved, but money and sentiment are usually two different creatures. I don't like the idea of paying for something now that will be boarded up or torn down in a few years anyway. I also don't like the idea of USD 282 kids -- and tax dollars -- being bused out of the county.

It was supposed to be the death of Severy when the high school was moved to Howard, but it wasn't.  The demise of Severy is the burnt out hardware and lumber yard.  The lack of a grocery store has added to it, but the spirit of the people that live in Severy is still there.  They have just built a new Senior Center.  There is still a place to get a meal, a little recreation, etc.

I can't see Moline folding up and blowing away either, just because the children go to school in another town.  They have several prospering businesses.  It isn't the school that makes the town.  It is the people that want to live there.  It is the churches, the community of the people. 

Indy, they already are being bused out of the county. I believe that Severy lies in Greenwood county doesn't it? Go have a look at Grenola sometime. They just eked out of losing their post office this year. It only takes a couple of devastating fires in these small towns to take a severe toll. I think the school went first, then the bank, then the restraunt. The townspeople had a cooperative restraunt for awhile, but that didn't last. It is going down and down. I don't want to see Moline go down that slippery slope. Right now we have a nice well-maintained town with a highway going through the town. There are thriving businesses that do not depend on the tax dollar so much. I have seen properties here go onto the county tax roles this year, and I don't want to see any more. Losing our school would be comparable to Howard losing the courthouse, and all the county services. If the folks in Howard want to keep a viable community, then it must remember that there are others in this county; not just people in Howard. Our tax dollars are important to the maintainence of all the schools, and the county services such as Sheriff, and EMS. If we are driven out of business as it were, then you will certainly suffer in the end. However, if consideration is given to ALL of us, then we maybe will survive.

Quote from: Wilma on September 29, 2009, 07:14:20 PM
It was supposed to be the death of Severy when the high school was moved to Howard, but it wasn't....... 

No, Wilma, it wasn't to be the death of Severy because when the high school was closed, we had the Jr. High and elementary.  When they decided to move the Jr. High to North Elk, they bused elementary students to Severy and Moline.  See how many families with children move to a town with no school, no grocery, nothing but a fantastic senior center and a post office.  Oh, yeah, I forgot, the Co-op and a bank building.  This is still not to say that I am against consolidating the schools to one campus, however.

On the other hand, Severy could very well have been the center of a Unified District if it hadn't been for  . . . . . that's another story.

 It only takes a couple of devastating fires in these small towns to take a severe toll. 

I believe we have had a rash of devastating fires in Howard recently and I don't see how the fire did anything to the town.  If anything it improved it.  Not to belittle the tragedy or the expense of physical injury of the situation but the aftermath of both big fires in Howard have been rather positive. The difference is that the aftermath was a renewed business  in one case and the removal of an blithed building in the other.

If you want to keep a town vibrant you can't let it wilt.  If a business fails, moves, or is forced out of business you replace it with another economic driver. You can't sit back and wonder why did this happen you have to react and keep it from happening again.   Moline lost the county funded nursing home.  At the time it was a severe blow to the area.  But the end result was an expansion of existing and a new business with as much or more economic impact and great added value services to the area.  It was not the intent of the closing of the rest home to kill a town but it was an economic driven one.  It was not working the way it was so it had to be changed.   

I think I know what you mean, Flo.  A lot of people felt that way when I was going to school there many years before they had to close the high school.

The school district is trying to do what is best for ALL students of USD 282.  If you were to look at the district as a whole, you would see that Howard is pretty close to being the center.  This is the reason for Howard being the site, not for any political reasons.  By being located in Howard no particular part of the district will have to be bussed for long periods of time.  Not to mention the money that could be saved by having everything in one central location.  One kitchen to service the entire district, one set of maitenance to take care of the buildings. 

If Moline, Severy, Elk Falls, Timbuktu were the center of the district, I would still think it is what is best for ALL students not just my section of the county.

If you get out there and talk to the people who are promoting the "Vote Yes" campaign, you will see that they are from ALL areas of the USD 282 district.  It's not just Howard people promoting this project... It's parents, grandparents, teachers, and citizens from ALL communities within the district.

Sorry for posting twice in a row, but forgot to add that I'm quite certain that re-purposing the buildings ARE also in the plan.  Although it's hard to advertise buildings available or start to make plans for their future when they are still used as schools.  I envision that Elk Konnected might have a hand in getting these buildings repurposed once they are available.  For example, even though the new Fitness center in Howard hasn't opened yet, we've had a lot of people ask about getting something started in Moline, too.  Maybe the Pickers and Fiddlers will want a larger space.  Maybe one of the churches would like to move into the school buildings.  Or maybe one of them will be used as a Youth Center.  I think the possibilities are endless and open a whole new avenue for both towns once you open your mind and start thinking creatively.

sixdogsmom - thanks for starting this discussion.

I'm all for the centralized location and a new elementary building. My kids went to both Severy and Moline. Each building has distinct advantages. I've been attending school board meetings for several years and am well aware of the maintenance problems all the buildings have. We need something different. I'm a solid YES person.

We can't continue as we have been. I think that's a given.

What are your suggestions for the school district?

We are going through a similar thing here in Greensburg, Mullinville and Haviland due to the tornado.  The tornado was devastating but there has been good come from it.  My husband works for the Mullinville school and could possibly lose his job next year when they join Greensburg but with that said, "It is the students education that is important"  They will have a better facility and the upkeep and the repairs will be minimal.  Yes Taxes will go up but that is inevitable with the way the world is now.  The upkeep and maintenance that my husband does in the old Mullinville school is crazy.  The costs to fix anything is very high because everything is obsolete and it is hard to get parts and then when he starts to fix something he finds something else and it goes on and on.  I hope that the community will vote yes and make it better for the kids.  I was the first class to become West Elk and I am so thankful that we came together.

 :-X  As a parent with a child in each of the three schools, I would have to restate that it doesn't matter what pole barn we have classes in our kids are getting a superior education as West Elk.

To compete with the corridor schools that my kids will be going to college with we need to do more.  We have to have a better plan than the mega Goddard or Andover schools because that is who our kids are going to be competing for jobs with in the future.  If you think that we can sustain the level of our test scores with the current system you are incorrect.  We have to give teachers raises to retain them.  We are not attracting great new teachers when the base pay is 10-12 thousand less than schools an hour away.   We are not currently providing basics for many programs that are assumed at the other schools.  We can't compete with international school whose children learn algebra when we are still learning 2+2=5. or close enough.

The more we wish the schools would stay the same the farther behind the ball we are getting.  I would like to be discussing a new science and technology lab, green technology, gymnastics, wind technology, fuel cells, or better communications programs but we are not to that point yet. 

 I like the way you think! Go for it!

I hear what you are saying sixdogsmom.  I attended grade school at Severy and High school at Howard, West Elk America.  I graduated in 1993.  I don't want to see either Moline or Severy's Grade Schools go.  But, sorry there is always a but, I want better for my children.  Not to say I didn't get a wonderful education.  I did.  But things are so much different now, than it was then.  I also don't like to see us putting Thousands of dollars into these buildings, when we could add some different courses at the high school level.  I think what alot of people don't understand, is that we as a community (Moline, Severy, Howard, and surrounding areas), need put our children first!  Yes, I have children in the system now.  I know that many of you don't.  But don't you the children in your area to get the best education possible.  If its .30 or $3.00 more a day in taxes, so be it.  We are raising our futures.  We want responsible, educated, well rounded youth.  Look at how many people have graduated from High school here, and have returned after college or to raise their families here.  I personally would like to say, we as a community did the best we could for our children.  They got a strong education!!  Strong Morals and values thanks to our school system and the communities around.

We, as parents and community members, know that the world is moving at a fast pace these days.  I truly think that we have wonderful teachers in our systems, but wouldn't it be nice to add some different things to spice up and help our young kids?  Technology is just a piece of the pie will this new school.  Our possiblities are endless if we all band together and work with the main goal in mind  Our wonderful future.  Our Children!!

I am not trying to say that you are wrong sixdogsmom for being concerned.  You have every right to be.  But the end product is such a wonderful out come!! 

GOOD QUESTIONS!  Keep 'em coming!

As one of the "Vote Yes" team members relayed to me, they'd rather people ask questions and find out the facts, rather than just keep their head down and vote NO without having all the answers.

If you're not satisfied, or convinced, keep the questions coming!  PEP is a member of the Vote Yes committee, so he has good facts to share, and I know Dr. Dave is busy with work during the week, but he will hopefull get on here over the weekend and share his knowledge, too. 

NO ONE should vote (yes or no) based on emotions alone.  Ask questions.  Get the facts.  Make an informed decision.

Angie, I don't think a new building will give our children any better education than they are getting at the present buildings.  I was under the impression that the reason for the new central elementary was financial to the district and this I do understand.  It will be a big financial savings to the district.  Enrollment numbers have continued to decline and will continue to do so, I think, hence less state aide.  I have always and continue to believe a good education is very important from K-12 and I think the students from West Elk USD 282 have gotten that thru the years.  I do not begrudge a good education to any child.  My concern was paying my fair share for this new building.  It's coming, tho, and I will pay my fair share as I won't have any choice, but I will have to cut something else out to do so and I don't know where to make this cut in my budget.  Perhaps I can start eating less and go to bed earlier to save electricity.

Flo, I am so sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like they will get a better education.  I am with you on the wonderful education that the kids get.  But at the high school and jr high level, we are missing some different types of elective classes that would benefit our children.  If we build the new school, the savings from putting into the two different schools, could maybe allow for the hiring of new teachers.  Also the ones that we got really don't get much of a raise a year, if any.  Does that make any more sense!  So sorry!!  I just can't always say exactely the right thing.

Quote from: flo on October 01, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
Angie, I don't think a new building will give our children any better education than they are getting at the present buildings.  I was under the impression that the reason for the new central elementary was financial to the district and this I do understand.  My concern was paying my fair share for this new building.  It's coming, tho, and I will pay my fair share as I won't have any choice, but I will have to cut something else out to do so and I don't know where to make this cut in my budget.  Perhaps I can start eating less and go to bed earlier to save electricity.

We are losing state aid not because of lower enrollment but because the state has not increased budgeting/funding for education.  Actually the lower the enrollment gets the higher our weighting.  The problem is that lower local assessment is making every mill worth less dollars.  If you look at the efficiencies that this bond will produce beyond the 5th or 6th year you can see some real savings by lowering your LOB portion of the taxes you pay.  If you look out 15 years we will be a lot better off and taxes will be much lower by paying down the bond now and not putting it off until later.  If we vote no there is a definite risk to the viability of the entire district not just the grade school buildings in Moline and Severy.

Most of us old ladies will be dead in 15 years, pep, and who is going to buy a decrepit property in a town with no school with umpteen dollars of unpaid taxes against it? If this property goes off the rolls, then your taxes are gonna go up my friend. If I am not paying the amount that I currently afford, are you willing to pick up the slack when I can no longer afford to pay? And when the population in this district declines so much that keeping any schools open is no longer viable, are you willing then to pay for the now vacant school that most people did not want in the first place, but was purchased with a few cut-rate hotdogs and cute kids in t-shirts? We have seen many properties in all our local towns go off the tax rolls in recent years, some of which might still be on there had taxes not risen so steeply. It is a shame, that this district could have had the dream school and more had a few people not been lured by big money and big hats that allowed the prospect for a really great project for this county to evaporate. The county revenue from a wind farm might just have been able to purchase that dream school, and provided tax relief for old ladies besides.

You usually don't build elementary schools with seniors as a great beneficiary.  The legacy of what you will leave for future generations will have a greater impact than then your temporary financial setback.  Some one built the school you attended. 

I know for a fact that the cost of living and the quality of the hard life in those days were greatly different than the easy path that we have now.  But the community banded together and built a quality district out of several good schools for the same reasons we are consolidating now.  You had one room school houses on every 6th mile because that is what was needed for the population of one farm for every homestead of 160acres.  Large farm families with limited transportation needed schools less than 3 miles from any student.  We don't have near that population density now.  We have driven out all the farming and ranch hands in exchange for technology and enterprise.  Mechanical advantage requires less labor.  You could make a living on 160acres then.  It is a struggle to make it on 1600acres now.  We have not embraced industry in this area.  We have no manufacturing, limited services, and struggling local economies. 

To my knowledge, the wind tower project is not "dead in the wind", so to speak.  It's just hit some speed bumps and will hopefully be able to continue forward soon.  I'm just not sure we could/should wait on this project to fund our school.  The wind towers will take at least a couple years to complete, and then another year or so before any money flows into the county.  Once it does, though, then the schools will be prepared to reap the benefits and provide funding for EDUCATION rather than brick and mortar.   (Plus not to mention all the other projects in the county that may want to share in part of that money, too.)

Keep in mind that the "cut-rate hotdogs and cute kids in T-shirts" are not funding this project, but bringing awareness to the VOTE.  If, as you say about the school, "most people did not want in the first place", then VOTE.  There is no room to complain about the quality of the schools, quality of education, or amount of your taxes if you don't take the time to VOTE in the first place.

Lastly, I'm a little more optimistic, as are all the VOTE YES parents, teachers, grandparents.  We believe that consolidating the grade schools into a more efficient school system will give our county an ADVANTAGE going forward.  We've already seen a good number of young families move back into the area.  They are opening businesses.  They are putting money into the local economy.  They have kids in school (or will have in a few years).  Our county is becoming a "draw" for people who have lived in big cities and "been there, done that".  No, we may never be an Independence-size or Andover-size school district, but Elk county has the potential to GROW and be a place worth moving!

I totally agree with you Tobina.  People look at our district because we are able to provide a wonderful education as well as other opportunites for kids.  Just last night at the Jr. High football game, there was a man who came to check out the district.  He was asking questions about the number of students, classes that were offered, sports, etc. because he was interested in bringing his children to our district from a neighboring district.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 01, 2009, 07:48:52 PM
Most of us old ladies will be dead in 15 years, pep, and who is going to buy a decrepit property in a town with no school with umpteen dollars of unpaid taxes against it? If this property goes off the rolls, then your taxes are gonna go up my friend. If I am not paying the amount that I currently afford, are you willing to pick up the slack when I can no longer afford to pay? And when the population in this district declines so much that keeping any schools open is no longer viable, are you willing then to pay for the now vacant school that most people did not want in the first place, but was purchased with a few cut-rate hot dogs and cute kids in t-shirts? We have seen many properties in all our local towns go off the tax rolls in recent years, some of which might still be on there had taxes not risen so steeply. It is a shame, that this district could have had the dream school and more had a few people not been lured by big money and big hats that allowed the prospect for a really great project for this county to evaporate. The county revenue from a wind farm might just have been able to purchase that dream school, and provided tax relief for old ladies besides.

I love it when the wisdom of elders overshadows the exuberance of youth.  My question to you decrepit property owner who is going to buy your property in a town with a school if taxes are due on it?  It is not the duty of the school system to pay your taxes.  It is quite the opposite.  It is the duty of the district to ensure that every child who lives in the district to be well educated efficiently with your tax money.  We don't need the revenue from the wind farm to finance the bond.  The hot dogs were a representation of the amount of money it will cost you to pay for the bond a day.  If your property is not over 50K in value you will not even pay that much.  Don't eat 30 hot dogs a month and you should be fine for at least 30 more years.

Since I live in Caney, I will not state my opinion on the issue of closing certain schools. That's up to the those who pay the property taxes in USD 282.  What I DO want to address is the statement that current buildings in Severy and Moline will be "repurposed" if a centralized grade school is built at the Howard campus.

I encourage those planning this bond issue, and those campaigning for a YES vote to make the repurposing a top priority. All I must do is drive through Grenola, Elk City, Havana, Wayside, Elk Falls and other communities that closed their schools to see that nobody gives a hoot about the properties once the school activity moves elsewhere. It MUST be in the original planning if those buildings are going to productive, public places.

Another thing about old schools.  Once they are sold to a private individual, they go on the tax rolls at quite high valuations, yet they really don't have value at all.  It's an oddity in the way state laws are set up. Several years ago, Bill Kurtis and I put together a Community Journalism School to be located in Coffeyville and the City agreed to deed over a beautiful old Carnegie Library for that purpose. It had set vacant for years and had absolutely no value. But when we checked into the potential taxes that we would start paying on it, we backed away from the project altogether.

What I'm saying is: Plan ahead. Make sure the existing buildings are included in the school's future, or a specific community's future. Make sure they will be owned by a 501-C(3) non-profit corporation, or by a church, school district or city. And most of all, put together the plan and the funding to assure that the buildings will truly be repurposed. Otherwise they will look like Elk City High School in future years.

All of it CAN work together for a good plan that will be good for all the local communities. I'm confident of that.

Well put Rudy.

Thanks for your input Rudy. It is my understanding that at the RED Hats meeting a couple of weeks ago, the superintendant was asked this same question. He said that the building would be put up for sale; that it could not be sold to a private school, as that would be in direct competition with the local school district. That is the extent of the 'plan' for the unused school. IMHO, that means Moline would be stuck with an eyesore just like that in many other communities. This is totally unacceptable, and the tax payers deserve better.

I am a member of the information committee for the bond issue.  I have been involved in several discussions regarding the future of the empty elementary buildings.  I know that the West Elk school board is also concerned and willing to do all that they possibly can regarding the future use of these buildings.  They do not want to see them stand empty and useless.  

We have board members from Moline and Severy, and just like many others, they hate to see their community have to close a school building.  However, the writing is on the wall regarding funds.  Our district can no longer function as it has in the past, and still provide a curriculum that keeps our students competitive.   With the state cutting school budgets, monies that were once used to run three facilities need to be reinvested in the curriculum.  

I know someone will state that I am talking as if this bond is going to pass and the buildings will be closed.  Well, even if the bond doesn't pass, drastic measures will have to be made and our board will have to make a difficult decision regarding closing one of the elementary buildings.  Then monies will have to be invested on extensive maitenance at what ever facility is kept open.  And the maitenance will be ongoing because both elementaries are quite old and need extensive overhauls.  

Please whatever decision you make as a voter, make an informed decision.  Find the facts, talk to board members, ask questions.  Our children are worth it!  

Sixdogsmom, I have spoken with board members and they are willing to work with the communities regarding the school buildings. 
I think it would be great if one of the buildings were turned into a type of community building.  A place offering a health and wellness center.  The gymnasium would be a great place for walking clubs.  A classroom could be used for work out equipment.  Classes could be offered from various people in the community. Classes could include computers, aerobics, quilting, sewing, cooking, woodworking, scrapbooking, etc.  We have so many talented people in our county that have a lot to offer.  I for one would love to learn to quilt, and yes I need some help in the kitchen.  I get so tired of cooking the same things over and over. 

Watch out everyone, I just had another idea.  People in the county could also bring their homemade goods once a month to a type of open market in the community buildings.  That would be so great to go buy hometown honey from srkruzich, or Chuck and Tobina's leather goods, or the many other things that people in our area create.

We already have a community building. Thank you. We also have a shrinking population, one that is also aging. An empty white elephant isn't going to help this community in any way. We have a new library, and a city office. We also have a new fire station. I don't need to learn to quilt, nor do I need to learn to paint or speak Chinese. I think it irresponsible in this day and age for any government body to saddle a community with the responsibility of a building, told what cannot be done with it, and expected to pay for the changes. Our walking clubs are on the street my dear, we are not cityfied enough to need an indoor track, as the last time I looked our streets are safe to use and the air is clean to breath. And it's free! I shudder to think of the cost of liability insurance for such an endeavor as you envision. If all this is so wonderful why hasn't it been done in Howard, home of the infamous pigeon roost?

I was only 5 years old when they closed it.  All I wanted to learn then was how to read.  LOL!!!  I am just throwing out ideas sixdogsmom.

I understand you are very compassionate about the cost of this both financially and emotionally for the community you live in.  I don't blame you at all for feeling that way.  I have taught in the Moline building for 12 years.  My husband went to grade school there.  My children have gone to grade school there.  It's personal for me also.   

I am so sorry, but I do think the populace has been failed in the zeal for a new school. In times past, an unwanted building would have simply been pushed down and destroyed. These days, impact studies need to be completed, asbestos removed, etc, etc. What provisions have been made for that? Or was the board hoping that the whole thing would be slipped by an unawares community? Was it just ignored? I am thinking that we are about to become the victims of an overzealous group who are looking out for what they perceive is the easiest solution, and the most attractive solution to sell.

I could see doing it if a votech school or college could be started in them.  I know i would love to go back to school and learn something new if there was a facility maybe a satellite school that would meet in the buildings. 

But the biggest factor i can see that hampers any kind of growth in this area is the lack of water.   Wouldn't concentrating on putting in the water system that everyone paid for meters for a few years ago bring in industry?  Water is like transportation. If you don't have it, no businesses will locate here. 
That was true in the 1800s for towns that the railroad didn't come near, and its still true today. 

Seriously, does anyone know of a school building that has closed and been maintained or put to good use?

I don't know much about your situation, but i noticed someone said the old buildings are 30-40 years old and need a lot of repairs.

The school i graduated from is about 60 years old.  They've expanded it several times.  Has anyone done a study to see if the existing buildings can be repaired or brought up to modern standards?

What are we getting for our 5.5 million? Rumor has it that 1.5 million will be for the gym. Do we really need to spend 5.5 million?

Will this issue be further discussed at future board meetings?

How long will the increase in tax last? Will the decrease in LOB be past on to the tax payers or will it go back into the school?

What are the negative impacts on Moline and Severy? ( I'd like to hear from the pro-bond people )

What will be done with the buildings at Moline and Severy? With a million dollars of deferred maintenance will you even be able to give them away?

QuoteSeriously, does anyone know of a school building that has closed and been maintained or put to good use?

I know of at least one in Kansas that is now a personal residence.

We have a school in emporia that was closed but it is now used my the district for something else. If the bond does pass would it be an option for the district to use the old building for things such as storage, other offices for people in the district, or even to have butler county put an office in, or is the communities too small for these things? I think Mulberry Elementary in Eureka was also used for other offices within the district, but being that the schools are in different towns I don't know if this would work

Quote from: greatguns on October 02, 2009, 10:14:04 PM
Seriously, does anyone know of a school building that has closed and been maintained or put to good use?

Check out Jennings, Kansas in Decatur County. A town of about 150.  Closed the school.  Building was purchased by a company from Canada who manufactures coaches and buses.  Their primary markets are in Canada and Mexico. So Kansas was a centralized location.  They have spent millions remodeling the building for their use.  And, they are asking and working w/ the City of Oberlin (largest town in Decatur Co and the county seat) to expand the length of the runway at their airport (which right now would be similar to Eureka's) to allow for planes carrying freight.

Building being used.  Job growth. Expanded airport that can be used by others.

I think if we look forward and work hard we can do this also.

David

This is not an example of what usually happens, and you know it. That is not the plan and you know it. There is no plan and you know it. Sorry Dave, there are always exceptions to the rule, and I stick with my original assumption; it is irresponsible for this board to go ahead with a school bond without thorough planning. Pep says this building needs repair, all buildings need repair all the time. And it is our responsibility to plan ahead for these things, not tear down the house when it needs a new furnace, but use the funds that have been set aside for that purpose.

The old school building in Grenola is now a small airplane parts manufactoring building.  From what I hear it doesn't pay that well, but it is better than just letting the building rot. 

SDM,

This is what happened in Jennings, KS.  The question was posed if anyone knew of buildings being used after the school left. I gave an example.  No where in my post did I say that was the plan for here. I did say that we can do this also. What I meant is that I believe we can put those buildings to use after being used as a school.

I don't think anything we say will convince you.  That is ok. I am convinced this, the bond and a centralized school, is the best for our district and communities at this time. I tend to be forward thinking and an optimist.  I love this area of our state/country. I did not grow up here. I could have gone anywhere in the US. But I didn't. I am here because of the quality of life for my family and my kids. I am determined to help us all make it the best we can.

David

Dave, I understand that some schools have been used for other purposes with some success. However, Moline is not a town of 150 people, we are closer to 500. We should have our own school, else accept that this town will go down the slope to oblivion. Grenola was given as an example of an old school being used for another purpose. I believe they build small aircraft parts, however that has not proven to be a boon for the town as most employees are from the surrounding areas. There haven't been a flux of families because there is no school, no bank, and no grocery store. Schooling is an extremely important part of the family structure.

I too am a person who was not reared in this part of the country. I too could have moved anywhere I wanted, but chose Moline Kansas in which to retire. I too love this area of the State/Country, but I am here because of the quality of life. I feel that I am a forward thinking person interested in the welfare of those around me. I am pretty much convinced that this bond issue is not the best for our area, nor for our children. New schools are typically built for an expanding student population, not a shrinking one. I do not think I have ever heard of that being done.

Thanks for the info on the old school buildings.  There was a business came to the old Latham school building, but that didn't last to long.  When they went back to Wichita, I went with them.

SDM,

Ok. It sounds like we have a lot in common.  But I think we will have to agree to disagree about the merits of this bond election.

David

The huge metropolis of Wilson, Kansas in the north central part of the state.  Is about the size of Moline but has more Octoberfests.  Had an empty elementary school, turned it in to a assisted living facility.  It is for profit.  It is on the tax roles. It competes with an established nursing home.  Nurses quit/get fired from one and go apply to the other. 

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 03, 2009, 01:02:10 PM
Pep says this building needs repair, all buildings need repair all the time. And it is our responsibility to plan ahead for these things, not tear down the house when it needs a new furnace, but use the funds that have been set aside for that purpose.

Where is the money going to come from to do the $500,000.00 worth of repairs at each(that means times two) that need to be done in the next 3-5years?  Where is the $1,000,000.00+ dollars of repairs that need to be done at the high school in the next 5-7years?  Remember we just dumped 2 million($2,000,000.00) on Moline and Severy grade schools in the last few years.

What programs should we start with if we don't pass this bond issue?  Could you do with out music, Football, VoAg, Art, Jr high sports, field trips, or would you like to combine grades and put 40-50 students in each classroom.

Quote from: Varmit on October 03, 2009, 03:21:57 PM
The old school building in Grenola is now a small airplane parts manufacturing building.  From what I hear it doesn't pay that well, but it is better than just letting the building rot. 

Have you checked out how little the employees at the USD282 get paid?  I am not even talking about the teachers.  I mean paras, janitors, cooks, and the highest paid is the bus drivers. The building is rotting because of the leaky roof and we need to fix it.

Quote from: okiemon on October 02, 2009, 10:31:37 PM
What are we getting for our 5.5 million? Rumor has it that 1.5 million will be for the gym. Do we really need to spend 5.5 million?

The building has been designed under 30,000sq ft with a maximum cost to the district of $5.5million.  We started out with a design estimate of 18-21 million for a 75,000sq ft building.  I don't how you could have gotten a price of $1.5million for the Gym when nothing was pieced out.  The interior spaces were estimated by the square foot.  But if you are correct in you figure you would have to subtract the cost of reinforcing the struture to meet the FEMA standard that will be reimbursed at $75per sq ft.($360,000.00)

What is the school districts plan for these buildings? Is it realistic to think someone will buy them when they need $500,000 of repairs? I'm concerned that they will end up like the old high school and be a tax burden to Moline and Severy.

Quote from: okiemon on October 02, 2009, 10:31:37 PM

Will this issue be further discussed at future board meetings?

How long will the increase in tax last? Will the decrease in LOB be past on to the tax payers or will it go back into the school?

What are the negative impacts on Moline and Severy? ( I'd like to hear from the pro-bond people )

What will be done with the buildings at Moline and Severy? With a million dollars of deferred maintenance will you even be able to give them away?

Yes it will be discussed at the next board meeting just as it has been discussed at the last 24 board meetings.  The bond is currently proposed to be 15 years.  If  it is paid down faster than it has been amortised it then it will be less than 15 years if we  pay it slower then it will go in to default.

Moline and Severy will lose the grade schools.  Moline and Severy elementary children will have to ride the bus to school the same length of time that the Howard kids have been riding the bus to school for the past 38 years.  Families with kids will still move to the area and shop in local stores, buy feed and clothes at the feed store, call the coop to change the tractor tires, trucks will still breakdown or have flats, people will still need their picture taken, we will still need to buy insurance, the fuel tanks will still need to be filled, the crops will still need to be fertilized, someone will need to stay the night.

Quote from: okiemon on October 03, 2009, 10:55:15 PM
What is the school districts plan for these buildings? Is it realistic to think someone will buy them when they need $500,000 of repairs? I'm concerned that they will end up like the old high school and be a tax burden to Moline and Severy.

How soon we forget.  That building in Howard was sold at least three time since it was a school.  It was a tax producing piece of property until recently.  I think the the actions of personal property owners are beyond the scope of the school boards control.

How can we make decide what to do with the buildings until the bond either passes or fails?  You can't sell something that is not for sale.  It can't be a tax burden until it sells so someone...It can't be sold until it is no longer used as a school. I would not want the school board telling me what do do with my property so why do you want a plan for a potential asset of Moline and Severy or even a private citizen the board doesn't not have the jurisdiction? 

I know what I would want to do with if I had the opportunity.  I would put in a health and wellness center in each of the gymnasiums and put assisted living apartments in all the class rooms.  It would be ADA accessible and fire codes would be easier with a old school than a wooden structure.

How about a lumberyard with just 2x4's and plywood?  maybe a couple of light fixtures.

Ok we are getting a 30,000 sq ft building for $5,500,000. How did you arrive at that figure of 30,000 sq ft?

QuoteI don't how you could have gotten a price of $1.5million for the Gym when nothing was pieced out.

I got that price talking to people in Howard while shopping.

QuoteMoline and Severy elementary children will have to ride the bus to school the same length of time that the Howard kids have been riding the bus to school for the past 38 years

Moline and Severy Jr. High and High school kids have been riding the bus to Howard for how long?

QuoteFamilies with kids will still move to the area and shop in local stores, buy feed and clothes at the feed store, call the coop to change the tractor tires, trucks will still breakdown or have flats, people will still need their picture taken, we will still need to buy insurance, the fuel tanks will still need to be filled, the crops will still need to be fertilized, someone will need to stay the night.

So nothing will change? Lets close the school in Howard and consolidate with another school district.

QuoteHow soon we forget.  That building in Howard was sold at least three time since it was a school.

If they would have demolished it in 1979 everybody in the school district would of helped pay for it, now it looks like the citizens of Howard are going to pay for it. Lets not do that to Moline and Severy.

QuoteI would not want the school board telling me what do do with my property so why do you want a plan for a potential asset of Moline and Severy or even a private citizen the board doesn't not have the jurisdiction?

Why are the grade schools a liability when we want to close them and an asset when someone ask what will be done with them when they're closed?

I will probably vote yes on the bond issue though I still have some doubts. I would like some in depth details on what we are getting, also are we going to need new desk, lockers, gym equipment, office equipment.... I think one of the main issues against the bond is going to be the small town vs small town thing, I know it is for me.

The architect, construction manager, community input, board input, teacher input, and students all had input on what the school district needs as far as space per classroom, number of classrooms, arrangement of class rooms, size and scope of multipurpose room, Fema structure reinforcing locations, access to building, and location.  The school board will have final say but the information came from anyone and every one.  If you have any suggestions we are still gathering information.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.  You wanted to know the impact on Moline and Severy.  Then you turn it around and say you want to close Howard.  I stated what I thought would happen to the business in and around Moline and Severy.  I do not buy in to the fact that the school drives commerce.  It that was the case then every summer you would have ghost towns.  Every time that school is not in session you would see a decline in commerce.  I think the problem lies more in the fact that people don't trade locally as much as they want you to believe.  If there is a need for a service, business, or product then someone will provide it because it generates income.  The problem is you have too much overhead in a small town and everyone needs to shop in that small town.  If you would replace a closed business with a new one you don't lose anything. 

I started to Grade School in 1973 at Moline.  My brother went in 1972.  That is 37 years.   OK I was one year long.

If consolidation with another district makes more sense than I would be in favor of that.  The problem is that we have contacted other districts and they are no interested. 

The grade schools are both an asset and a liability just as taxes to you are a liability but to the school systems they are an asset.

Quote from: okiemon on October 04, 2009, 12:34:31 AM
Why are the grade schools a liability when we want to close them and an asset when someone ask what will be done with them when they're closed?

They are a liability when the district could operate more efficiently with one building. We do not control our income except for the Local Option Budget.  The schools income is dictated by the state.

In a for profit business, the income is dictated by the quality of service or product you deliver and the demand by your customers.  The buildings would be an asset to a well planned, for profit business. 

These are just very different operating structures and the reality is we have very little control over the school financing.

David

Ive gone through and read every post here, alot seems to be repetitive.  For the sake of starting somewhere, I am going to start with Mr W's  qoute here.

"They are a liability when the district could operate more efficiently with one building. We do not control our income except for the Local Option Budget.  The schools income is dictated by the state."

For the sake of spending $5.5 Million on a 30,000 sqft complex.  I am going to have to go out on a limb, and say I feel as though I am getting ripped off. Start off by taking a look at this school http://www.educationdesignshowcase.com/view.esiml?pid=110 (http://www.educationdesignshowcase.com/view.esiml?pid=110) .  This school was built in 2006 for the entire complex K-12, 78,000 sqft for just over $9.5million.   For all you math wiz's out there, we are paying $183 sqft, that was $122 sqft.  Why dont we just pay the extra couple dollars on top of the proposed mill increase and get an entire new school, not a cut and pasted one. That school was designed for 625 students. That would give our 350 plenty of room.   And while we are at adding on to the increase, tax on an extra $1mill or so for teacher raises, to make up the 10-12K needed to keep them from going to the bigger schools an hour away.   I dont feel the special teachers that got $20,000 raises this year need another one, but the normal teachers that have to be in a class everyday actually teaching that received $500 raises in that same period do.

This "vote yes" campaign for the new school reminds me alot of.....its on the tip of my tongue....oh yeah the "YES WE CAN" campaing last year for president.   Look what all of you did to us that voted for "YES WE CAN".   Pushing for the vote, not really caring about the concerns.  Just go at it as "Our way is the better way".

The busing nightmare will not get any better if the people in charge are not removed and replaced with someone with some knowledge of logistics.    How does it make sense for 1 kid to be dropped off at one time and kid directly behind them dropped off 1 hour later.  This does happen.  Then when the people in charge are confronted, they say there is nothing that can be done about it.

"we've seen a good number of families move back into the area. They are opening business....."  Could someone elaborate for me, what businesses have opened lately?

To Rudy's "All I have to do is drive though Grenola, Elk city, etc.and other communities to see that no one gives a hoot about properties that were once schools"  You dont have to drive far at all, Just drive through Howard.  That building is a true eyesore, whomever owns it, charges should be filed against them to either fix it or tear it down.

The current elem schools would be put up for sale but not to a private school organization.  Maybe thats just what we need here to drive higher teacher salaries and excellence.  Whats the difference if someone wanted to go to one of the better local schools if there were one or two.  or someone going to another local school (Longton) because they didnt like the kids or the teachers at the main school (West Elk)

You want to repurpose the buildings, I would just like to see the repurposed into crushed stone.   If you want to repurpose them, that will take more tax money and man hours that no one will want to do.   Kind of like the old bank building in Howard, its funded for whoever wants to renovate it, and still it sits rotting.

I liked this quote the best of the whole subject "its irresponsible for any government body to saddle a community with the responsibility of a building with the ideas of what cannot be done to it, and expect the community to pay for it"

One person said the rumor is $1.5mill for the gym, if we are using the same cafeteria and auditorium, then why do we need a separate gym?

To Pepelect - you said in wilson ks  the school was turned into a private nursing home, one molines already closed because of lack of people, 2. would that be the same concept as a private school competing, because that nursing home would compete with howards.  if howards losing victims then the taxes would go up...

Lastly, You state the bond is currently set for 15 years, but the mentions 30cents a day rate is based on the 20 year repayment plan.   Is this the same type of misdirection used by our federal governement?

I would like to politely remind people that this school discussion has been going on for quite some time... and at least the last 2 years hot and heavy.  Maybe you would have been better served to take your questions and concerns to the school board meetings and become involved through the entire process... not just dogging the "vote yes" group at the last minute. 

Another reminder; the SCHOOL BOARD has agreed upon the proposed changes and mills and THEY are the ones to take the issue to a public vote.  The "vote yes" group is just a voice for the school board and the plan.  If you have serious concerns, I would recommend that you visit with your ELECTED school board member for your area.  These school board members have been working hard for a long time on coming up with a plan to help save money and save the future of the schools.  I know many of them have dropped all other community activities and groups just so they could commit fully to the school board during this difficult time.

Quote from: PrehistoricRez on October 05, 2009, 12:19:11 AM

Lastly, You state the bond is currently set for 15 years, but the mentions 30cents a day rate is based on the 20 year repayment plan.   Is this the same type of misdirection used by our federal governement?

Please specifically show us, in this discussion, where it says the 30cents/day is based on a 20 year repayment plan.  I can't find it.

The 30 cents/day is based on a 15 year bond.  This information was provided to us by the bond consultant. I can show you the information in print if you like. Please send me a personal message w/ your mailing address and I will personally see that you get the information.

David

Quote from: PrehistoricRez on October 05, 2009, 12:19:11 AM
"we've seen a good number of families move back into the area. They are opening business....."  Could someone elaborate for me, what businesses have opened lately?
To Rudy's "All I have to do is drive though Grenola, Elk city, etc.and other communities to see that no one gives a hoot about properties that were once schools"  You dont have to drive far at all, Just drive through Howard.  That building is a true eyesore, whomever owns it, charges should be filed against them to either fix it or tear it down.
To Pepelect - you said in wilson ks  the school was turned into a private nursing home, one molines already closed because of lack of people, 2. would that be the same concept as a private school competing, because that nursing home would compete with howards.  if howards losing victims then the taxes would go up...
Lastly, You state the bond is currently set for 15 years, but the mentions 30cents a day rate is based on the 20 year repayment plan.   Is this the same type of misdirection used by our federal government?

I wish you could read as well as you misquote.  I never said that Wilson built a nursing home.  They built an assisted living center which doesn't compete directly with the existing nursing home in Wilson.  It is a good mesh.

As far as the building in Howard.  It was perfectly fine and a private building for 20 years after it was a school.  If someone wrecks your car  that you sold 20 years ago and kills a person are you charged with the homicide?

It will take 15 years to pay off the principle of $5.5million bond at 4.25%.

The increase in taxes on a $50k home would be approx.  $100.92 per year.    

$100.92 dollars a year divided by 365 is $0 .2765 dollars a day.

                                                                                                       That is less than 30 cents a day.

$100.92 x 15 years is only $1513.80 total for the life of the bond.

And when it comes time to furnish this new school, where are do these funds come from? Landscaping, insurance? If the building in Howard was 'perfectly fine' why was it abandoned for a new building? Why is the school in Moline needing a new roof when nearly all the buildings in town got a new roof after the mega-hailstorm a few years back? Where did the insurance money go? If the building in Moline is so old it is useless, we should probably raze the old courthouse in Howard. It is well over 100 years old is it not? Moline could probably do a better job of caring for the countys' business anyway. And BTW, why am I hearing that public school employees are being used to pass out 'vote yes' literature? I posted questions at the beginning of this thread and have 'dogged' nobody Tobina. I am still waiting for answers to most of those questions BTW.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 05, 2009, 08:58:51 PM
And BTW, why am I hearing that public school employees are being used to pass out 'vote yes' literature?

If a public school employee wants to support the bond election, they are able to do so. They cannot promote the bond while working at the school, during school hours/classes. Outside of school, they can promote if they choose to do so. They are not being used. They are doing so on their own accord because they believe it is the right thing to do.

David

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 05, 2009, 08:58:51 PM
And when it comes time to furnish this new school, where are do these funds come from? Landscaping, insurance? If the building in Howard was 'perfectly fine' why was it abandoned for a new building? Why is the school in Moline needing a new roof when nearly all the buildings in town got a new roof after the mega-hailstorm a few years back? Where did the insurance money go? If the building in Moline is so old it is useless, we should probably raze the old courthouse in Howard. It is well over 100 years old is it not? Moline could probably do a better job of caring for the countys' business anyway. And BTW, why am I hearing that public school employees are being used to pass out 'vote yes' literature? I posted questions at the beginning of this thread and have 'dogged' nobody Tobina. I am still waiting for answers to most of those questions BTW.

The building in Howard was abandoned because it was not necessary to have three grade schools back in the seventies.  The school was built and the grade schools were moved to Moline and Severy.  The attendence was about double of what it is now.

The south 2/3 of the Moline roof was replaced recently.  The north 1/3 needs to be replaced.

I am all for razing the Elk County Courthouse.  If you think you can come up with $5.5million dollars worth of explosives I will personally help you by leading the campaign to do just that.  As it is the most reinforced building in the entire county it would take 10 years to tear that structure down.  I believe it is going to be getting a new roof by the awarding of a grant to do so.

Moline is a part of the county. SO how could a part of the county do a better job of caring for themselves?  There are Moline residents that work at the Elk County Courthouse.  As well as Grenola, Longton, ......


Why shouldn't we move it to Elk Falls?

"we've seen a good number of families move back into the area. They are opening business....."  Could someone elaborate for me, what businesses have opened lately?

We have a photography studio, hugely expanded feed store, new hair salon, new grocery store, tracy's trends, dm guns, Bryants blooms, Zimmerman funeral home is reopened, elk falls pottery has new employee, the county has a great economic director, and that is just off the top of my head.  New business and new faces are what is driving this county not negativity and unproductive dialogue. 

Patrick ask me to put this up for him ..........

Thank you queen of all is electronic and it is nice to see you use your wizardly(is that sexist?) skills to a good use now and again.



ok come on admit it you were going to be against this  >:( and thought the video started out to be very boring ........then the banjo started to play .................your foot started tapping.......................and I knew you would come around.    ;D

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 05, 2009, 08:58:51 PM
I posted questions at the beginning of this thread and have 'dogged' nobody Tobina. I am still waiting for answers to most of those questions BTW.

SDM; I sincerely apologize.  I didn't think my statement through before posting.  Like I said before, it's good to get your questions out there!  What I meant to say is that the "vote yes" group is not the only place you can get your answers.  They are just the public voice promoting the vote.  The decision-making group is still the school board members.  I just wanted to make sure that everyone feels like they can actually go to that board to find out why this project has been formed the way it has, and not have to take the words of the "vote yes" group as final. 

What?    ???   You mean there are others out there?   I can get more banjo's and we rented a jug just for the next meet'n.  We would like to have a harmonica and a fiddle. 

You rented a jug? A full jug to get things off right and when its empty you can play it!  ;D That should get some happy people voting.

I saw this little chicken and from that conversation I have come the the realization that.........Ok, we are all going to die.  The new proposed building will kill not both towns but it will only be a matter of time before the overbuilt school will also bankrupt the entire county and we will have to rename the county Piper Jaffery the owner of the bonds because of an insider trading deal.  Ok I get it........


What is plan b.

What is the your plan for the district to remain viable and keep both existing grade schools open?

I have yet to hear one positive comment about how to keep the current facilities viable.  I have heard all the negatives about the one campus bond every day for the last year.  I know how much funding has already been cut from the budget from the state this year .  I know there is going to be another cut later this year. 

What high dollar programs are the unnecessary programs you want cut first. How do you repair the existing buildings without raising taxes.


I would like someone to tell me what will keep our three campus school great , not just getting by year to year , for the next generation.

Convience ME!

I learned a few interesting things last night at a meeting where the Supt spoke.

1)  This is not just a "pie in the sky" project... if the bond passes, estimated move-in date to the new building = DECEMBER 2010!  That means it's not just something that we'll be paying for a long time and not really see anything new.

2)  The largest classes in the schools this year... Pre-K and Kindergarten classes.  To me, that means YOUNG growth in the community and a future of larger class sizes.  (There's a quite a few of us out here trying our best to keep that growth going, too!   ;) )

3)  The school board members are committed to reducing taxes as quickly as possible.  They would like to get the building paid off in 10 years instead of 15, but they are also going to work on giving tax-payers a break on taxes quickly, too.  So, that means that the money saved in keeping up old facilities will go towards both paying off the building, as well as decreasing taxes.  Also, as I understand it, the bond issue is for the full amount of building costs and does not figure in any FEMA or State-Aid money, so the figures you see on taxes are actually calculated on the HIGH side, and will likely be lower, especially in Years 2 & 3. 
*Side note... as I was thinking, there is a high number of school board members that are rural landowners... and maybe even own more than one house on that property (as well as other businesses).  So the people making the decisions on this project are likely to pay as much taxes, or more, than a lot of us.

Lastly, the school board will be meeting Monday night to discuss "Plan B"... what is the next step if the bond doesn't pass.  I would encourage people to attend and get their ideas out there.  There WILL be a Plan B... "status-quo" is no longer an option.

Nice report Tobina.

okay, I think you have convinced me.  I have really been studying all the yea's and nay's here.  Yes, I'm concerned about having to dig deeper in the pockets (I'm scraping the seam at the bottom now) to come up with the funds to pay higher taxes but on the other hand are we just going to be throwing money to the wind if we keep trying to "fix" the older buildings?  Taxes are going to have to raise  to come up with the money to build a new central school OR to keep repairing and upgrading the existing buildings.  Why not pay the taxes to have a school that will last a few years, hopefully, and get the bond paid off early. Am I thinking straight?  ??? rationally?  :-\ Yes, I'm concerned about Moline and Severy without their schools but sooner or later . . . . . . . ::) ::) ::)

Your concerns are good reason not to be convinced.
You still have time to make a new decision on the matter.

It sounded like to me, that the bottom line message was... "we must spend money to save money in the long run".  Or even to save our District in the long run.  Mr. Reese had some good financial stats.  I encourage people to try and attend a meeting, or to ask Mr. Reese and/or the "Vote Yes" group to hold a discussion at any of your local meetings.  Really, they are not there to tell you how to vote... they are there to give the facts and answer questions.

Yes, I agree that a top priority should be given to what will happen to the old school buildings.  I think we've got a GREAT community/county group that would be willing to step in and get creative.  This group was designed to help the COUNTY, not just communities, and I think you'll see a lot of people willing to make sure all communities in the county can survive something like this.  Someone mentioned something about giving the school to a 501(c)(3) company, and again, we have a very active one of those in our county (Elk County Community Education Foundation)... who also is aligned with the county development group, Elk Konnected.
I don't want to get this thread off-topic, but I think some interesting ideas have been mentioned here on what to do with these buildings.  All we need is some forward-thinkers who are positive and willing to make something happen.  Yes, ideally, we try and draw in some new business that will also help the economy of the town, but at the very least, we can make these buildings house something that is an asset to the community people who have supported them all these years.
Sorry, I didn't want to do this (to get us too far off track), but it is burning a hole in my mind... how many young kids get married in other towns because their own hometown doesn't have a location to host the reception?  How much money is the community/county losing because of situations like this?  How about an antique mall; people travel MILES to go to antique malls (not to mention that they buy gas and eat in those towns, too)?  The potential of re-purposing these schools actually excites me more than getting a new school!   :D

A 'no' vote will not save Moline and Severy from drying up.  That has to come from the business sector of town.  If you have businesses and people working together to keep those businesses thriving,(i.e. people shopping in them) that is what keeps a town from drying up. Everyone must support the local commerce in these small towns, so you can have families who can live and work in these communities. Examples have been given about when the school closed the town quickly followed suit.  The school closing was not the CAUSE of the dry up, it was a consequence of it. Because we no longer have the population in Elk and southern Greenwood counties, we are now forced to make this really tough decision.  The financial resources are no longer there to support 3 campuses.  I have a soft place in my heart for Moline as I lived there when I was younger so I too want to see it prosper, but I truly do not believe that the grade school is the only thing holding that town together. The closing of these schools would not have to be the end of these towns!    

Tobina, you did not mention in your 'report' that enrollment in the entire district this year is 345 students, that includes gradeschool, jr.highschool, and highschool. This number is down from 450 students year before last. This does not look like an upward trend to me. You also mentioned that landholders were the majority of the board members. Did it ever occcur to you that landholders nowdays make a huge living, some in the hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. There are people here in this town who barely are existing now; disabled or elderly living on a small fixed income. They manage to pay taxes just barely; if this tax situation gets to be much more of a burden, they will just stop paying. Eventually they will lose their homes, some of which are the minimum of living conditions. Some of these people already are stretched to the breaking point, fear and panic at the sight of an electric or gas bill, wondering if they will be able to pay it. Yes, there is homestead assistance for people who qualify. As an example, in my case it does not even cover the rise in taxes already. So that means the quality of my life is decreasing as well as many here in this town and across the county I suspect. Could you live on $700.00 per month? I know one couple who barely manage, and he is forced to work with a heart condition and diabetes, even though he is well past retirement age.

Pep, I watched the video you had posted, and I do have a question; why is the schoolboard building a tornado shelter for Howard community? Or is it the safe room the woman was speaking of?

I believe the elementary school gym is being built to tornado standards to act also as a safe room, tornado shelter for the kids and the community. If I'm wrong, I'm sure Pep will correct me.

You are correct Diane.

Will a decision be made and the public informed of "plan b" before or after the vote?

Also wondering how much our enrollment can increase before utilizing the one existing cafeteria becomes an issue?  How many students can be served from that one location?  

I understand that they could juggle lunch around some... but how would breakfast work?  I believe at the grade schools breakfast is served to all students who eat  from 7:50 to 8:10 or 8:15.  Wouldn't it already be an awfully large amount of students for the space in just 30 min.... I'm sure there is a plan, but have not heard anyone talking about this particular issue.   It would be a sad thing to be right back at the drawing board in 5 to 10 years over another bond to build a cafeteria............ any insight?

I have to wonder if the long range plan isn't to build a new highschool after the bond is paid for. Now this is just speculation on my part, as the current highschool building is the least energy efficient of the three bulildings. Moline is the most efficient. But I really think that we will not have to worry about it as I think that population will become so sparse that we will be forced to join another school district.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 07, 2009, 01:38:08 PM
Tobina, you did not mention in your 'report' that enrollment in the entire district this year is 345 students, that includes gradeschool, jr.highschool, and highschool. This number is down from 450 students year before last. This does not look like an upward trend to me.

I only "reported" what was discussed at the meeting I attended.  The meeting I attended to find out more information on this subject and to have the opportunity to ask questions.  I did not hear that statistic you stated, either.  In fact, the Supt said we lost 27 students.  And he said that was likely due to the changes in the grade schools and how they combined classes and changed around where each grade was attending.

Also, the increasing enrollment I'm referring to is the large amount of kids in pre-K and Kindergarten classes, which will be in school for the next 12 years.  I was merely speculating that indicates an upward trend in enrollment, because I was thinking that if people have kids in pre-K and kindergarten, they likely have other kids at home?  Or that means there is an increase of people having children in the county?  And I mentioned that I know a lot of young couples who are having kids and just starting families (including myself), so that is why I made that personal speculation.

I'm sorry to hear about your financial situation.  It is your right to vote "no" on this bond issue, and I have never said otherwise.  This thread is to answer questions that people have about the proposed bond issue so they can make an informed decision, and take their own financial situation into account as well.

(edited my response to keep this focused on the facts)

Something has been niggling at me and I finally realized what it is.  I got 65% of my real estate taxes up to $700.00 refunded by filing the Homestead Claim.  The percentage refunded depends on your yearly income.  For income under $6,000.00 a year, 100% of the real estate tax will be refunded.  Income of $9,000.00 to $10,000.00 will get an 84% refund.  The lower your income, the higher the percentage of refund and the higher your income up to $29,100, the lower the percentage.  Even with a $100.00 raise in the tax, after the refund the taxes aren't so high.  Last year this was for people born before January 1, 1951.  It is a Kansas thing, but we do live in Kansas, don't we?

Any which way, I am not worried about an increase in the taxes on my home for the purpose of building a new grade school which should have been done at the same time the high school was built.

I'm in favor of the bond issue and the new elementary, and I'm proud of the school board for not passing this off to the next set of members, leaving the problem for them to solve. It seems to be part of the reason we currently find ourselves with this decision to make.

One of the ladies in the video makes a good point, in that people are focusing on the negatives and not taking into account all the positives a new school can bring to our county. We're aware that things are changing, and change can make some folks uncomfortable. The fact is we have to get off the fence and take action, because doing nothing is not an option. Things WILL change, whether we like it or not, so let us at least choose the direction we wish to go.

I'm no fan of taxes, and $100 a year is a healthy chunk of change. But here's my personal take on it. Anyone who knows my husband and I knows that we do not live in the lap of luxury, but somehow through the years we managed to come up with more than $100 a month to support our nicotine habits. We both recently quit smoking, so for us, a $100 increase in taxes a year is money far better spent. Over the life of the bond, I can't think of a better investment of my $1,500 than to improve the educational situation in Elk County.

Please note well: I did not say everyone has $100 extra just hanging around the house. I'm aware this presents a hardship to some, and I'm in no way making light of that. What I'm saying is I personally am prepared to cut a few corners to make it happen.

It tickles me that there are young couples starting families and choosing to raise them in Elk County. I can think of four just off the top of my head who have recently had babies or are expecting little ones in the next six months. That is so exciting! These children deserve a safe and attractive environment in which to learn. My children and grandchildren live in Indiana, so the children in Elk County are my future, too. Those who choose to stay will help me stay in my home, too.

If a new school means keeping our school district in good stead, if it keeps young families in Elk County, if it provides a safe and efficient learning environment, if it eliminates financial redundancy ... I'm happy to pay less than 30 cents a day.

Quote from: Wilma on October 07, 2009, 05:43:58 PM
Something has been niggling at me and I finally realized what it is.  I got 65% of my real estate taxes up to $700.00 refunded by filing the Homestead Claim.  The percentage refunded depends on your yearly income.  For income under $6,000.00 a year, 100% of the real estate tax will be refunded.  Income of $9,000.00 to $10,000.00 will get an 84% refund.  The lower your income, the higher the percentage of refund and the higher your income up to $29,100, the lower the percentage.  Even with a $100.00 raise in the tax, after the refund the taxes aren't so high.  Last year this was for people born before January 1, 1951.  It is a Kansas thing, but we do live in Kansas, don't we?

Any which way, I am not worried about an increase in the taxes on my home for the purpose of building a new grade school which should have been done at the same time the high school was built.

A couple of other tax considerations:

Last year I was able to deduct my property taxes on my federal tax return as an addition to my standard deduction.  In the past you had to itemize to deduct property taxes.  This chopped about $60 off my federal income tax.  Based on this, if my property taxes go up $100, it would actually be $85 after my income taxes decreased by $15.  (Disclaimer:  I am not an accountant.  Everyones tax situation is different, please consult your accountant or tax preparer for actual legal tax guidance)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the first $20,000 in appraised value exempted from the state mill levy for education?  It has been in the past.

And, does this exemption also apply to the local option budget mill levy?

Quote from: Tobina+1 on October 07, 2009, 08:38:06 AM
Also, as I understand it, the bond issue is for the full amount of building costs and does not figure in any FEMA or State-Aid money, so the figures you see on taxes are actually calculated on the HIGH side, and will likely be lower, especially in Years 2 & 3. 

This needs to be corrected so that there is no misunderstanding.  The information about property taxes being distributed is based on a $5.55M construction cost that will be financed by the sale of bonds to be amortized over 15 years at an estimated interest rate of 4.25% and this does include state aid (29% of principle and interest over the life of the bonds).  The percent of state aid could increase but that would not be know until 2010 - after the bond election.

What is not included in figuring the property tax is the FEMA payment.  This would be a reimbursement and could be applied to the principle which would result in earlier repayment. We can pay off the loan at 10 years (or anytime in between 10 and 15) w/out penalty.

Taxes will go down, as is the plan by the board, when they can lower the Local Option Budget.  Again, this could be done by making our operating expenses more efficient w/ centralized elementary school and by avoiding the costs of repairs that are needed on both of the current elementary school buildings.

David

Got a question on the statement when taxes go down.  Now we all know once a government entity gets a tax in place they never let it go.  Too easy to find other uses for the free money.  What guarantees does a property owner have that their taxes will go down?  Is it in writing, signed sealed as in a contract that they can sue if they don't go down? 

Sorry but when it comes to taxing the public, i am a pure skeptic when i hear taxes will go down.

Quote from: srkruzich on October 07, 2009, 08:36:37 PM
Got a question on the statement when taxes go down.  Now we all know once a government entity gets a tax in place they never let it go.  Too easy to find other uses for the free money.  What guarantees does a property owner have that their taxes will go down?  Is it in writing, signed sealed as in a contract that they can sue if they don't go down?  

Sorry but when it comes to taxing the public, i am a pure skeptic when i hear taxes will go down.

I would agree if we were talking about our State or Federal govt.  

The school board has not given any guarantee nor is there any contract.  They have stated that they want to lower the Local Option Budget.  These persons serving on the school board are tax payers also.  I believe that they want their taxes to go down also.  They have only been raised out of necessity as state aid has declined - and expenses have not (unless programming is cut).

David

Ok, sixdogsmom.  I really have to state something.  I don't think we will convince you.  You have your mind set and no turning it around.  But I do wonder, if the economy was in a better state would things be better?  Or is it just that you can't see the big picture?  I do know that my husband and I are struggling to make ends meat also.  WE have three girls also.  Oldest goes to Moline, middle one in 1st grade, and youngest is in preschool.  I am really FOR building a new school.  By all the information that I have seen, I think that we wont see much bigger jump than last year.  And at least we will have something to show for it.  I mean, last years taxes were a big jump.  And if you have seen the paper this week and read the deliquent taxes, the majority of people that are behind are not even from here or don't not live here.  To me that is a real problem.

But back to discussion, so the numbers of students are going down.  The people that chose to live here still need a place for their children to go to school.  The bottom line here is that the district CAN NOT go on like they have for the last couple of years.  Something has to give, and if we don't build a new school, I am sure that one of the Elementarys with be shut down.  I am not .sure on this but I can't imagine keeping them both going and not having the money to run them.

Also, I really get tired of hearing that a school keeps a community alive.  Now come on, Moline and Severy both have great little towns.  Severy has really lost a lot of things in the recent years.   I think that Severy lost alot of people when the lumber yard, and grocery store shut down.  But we can't blame a town dying on the closing of a school.  It's the lack of people willing to shop locallly and support the town.  I can honestly say that I buy 95% or more of my groceries in Howard.  We get most of our gas in Howard, our tires and most machine or vehicle parts locally, at least what we can get here.  We also go to other communities in Elk county and support their businesses.  WE buy pizza in Longton and also Moline about once if not more a month.  I run a daycare business and do use alot of groceries.  But we put alot back into our communities.  It helps.

Sixdogsmom, can you say that you have a open mind to listen?  I hope so, cause I have an open mind and have listened to you

Concerning the exemption on houses valued at $20,000 or less:  That exemption is only figured on taxes for the General Fund, not the LOB, Capital Outlay, or Bond and Interest.

Angie...I don't want to sound like I am trying to "pick an argument", but in all due respect to SDM.....She has a valid concern.  You and Jeff are still young.  Granted, you have a high cost of living, just as we all do, and you have a young family to support and educate.  SDM,  Fred and I ( all all other old people) pay the same prices at all the stores that you do.  The main difference being...We have NO wage earning years  left.  What we have now has to last us the rest of our lives.  We must be concerned about this.  Having to maintain a home w/all the costs as they are today, causes us to look closely - budget wisely and have grave concern about our finances.
 I am sure EVERYONE wants our children to have the best education possible - housed in well maintained facilities, and provided a future that will sustain them the rest of their lives.  But by the same token, we senior citizens had those same concerns when we were raising our families, and STILL have those concerns while being independent and self supporting.  While we are tightening our belts, adding more taxes are a little hard to squeeze in, sometimes.

 Jo

I want to compliment my forum friends for this good discussion on your upcoming bond election.  The Elk County Forum serves such a good purpose when it comes to these discussions, and I've especially liked the civility and general thoughtfulness by those posting their comments.

 >:(  We won't do that anymore..   >:(




Rudy, you started all this.   One paper in every town was just wonderful until you came along and showed us that a combined resource gets the best of all involved. 


After Nov.  we should move to Montgomery county and merge the two colleges........



Next....One county Fair!!

And then put Howard County back together!

and bring back hangin'!!

 ;D ;D ;D

 >:( >:( now, pep, Rudy gave us all a compliment and you had to go and spoil it.  If they do bring back hanging, we'll let you test the rope first, okay?  8)

It better be high tensile strength rope... and a strong gallows.  8) That is all I am going to say.  :angel:

I haven't read all of these posts, yet, but I did come across something that PEP said about this bond issue.

I quote.  "The legacy of what you will leave for future generations will have a greater impact than then your temporary financial setback.  Some one built the school you attended."

Jim and I have talked about this issue and about how we are going to vote.  We will vote yes.  Someone had to sacrifice to build a school for us.  I went to school in this district all my school years.  When we merged Severy and Howard to make North Elk we all thought it was the most horrible thing that ever happened to us never mind what it might do to our town.  Now, here I am, looking at another merger.  What is it going to do to Severy and Moline?  I don't know.  I worry about what will happen.  I'm still voting yes because I think it is the right thing to do.

In a nutshell, here is our problem:

The population of Elk County was estimated to be 3,077 in the year 2006.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_County,_Kansas

Historical populations
Census    Pop.        %±
1880    10,623        
—
1890    12,216       15.0%
1900    11,443       -6.3%
1910    10,128       -11.5%
1920    9,034       -10.8%
1930    9,210       1.9%
1940    8,180       -11.2%
1950    6,679       -18.3%
1960    5,048       -24.4%
1970    3,858       -23.6%
1980    3,918       1.6%
1990    3,327       -15.1%
2000    3,261       -2.0%

Hope this copies and pastes OK, but between 1960 and 2006 our population declined from 5,048 to 3,077 which is a decline of about 40% in less than 50 years, and a combined facility is the only long-term solution.

If we still had a population of 5,000 or even 4,000, we'd have a tax base to support all facilities, but as our population continues to decline, we have to make some tough choices.

Yes, taxes will go up in the short-term, in order to bring down costs in the long run.

If the bond issue fails, you're going to be losing a lot more than the grade schools at Severy and Moline. Our school district will be trying to run a race with ankle weights - competing with other districts who aren't being burdened with the problems and expenses that keeping a facility open in every community will bring.

As for me, I will be voting YES on Nov 3.

I was a student at Severy and I hate to see it go also, however.......

I live in the Bluestem school district now (Leon)  We closed our grade school at Haverhill last year.  The building now is leased out to South Central Special Ed Co-op (forgive me if the name isn't right).

Leon's enrollment has dropped from 745 total students in 04 to 566 this year.   With the amount of miles covered by this district, it just made sense to put it all in one area - it saves money on busing and on upkeep.  The district did an excellent job (my opinion, of course) of reassigning teachers and para's - most were kept.

I see all sides to this argument, and change is hard.  No one likes to see taxes or anything for that matter go up.   I certainly understand "scraping the bottom of the barrel" when it comes to making ends meet.  I have 3 girls (7, 4, and 2) and keeping up with their upkeep, let alone feeding them is tough.  Our family has had to make sacrifices lately that were hard but we manage.  At the same time, I don't understand the idea that a town will shut down without a school. 

I wish Leon had the businesses that Howard, Severy and Moline have.  Our grocery store burnt down a few years ago.  We now  have a Co-op, 2 cafe's and 5 churches.  I still think it's a thriving community and we do have new businesses looking to move here.  HOORAY!

I haven't had a chance to read every single post yet.  I'm still on page 3.  LOL  But I do know that the taxes in Elk county are quite a bit higher than a lot of the other counties and while we struggle to make ends meet, the idea of having our taxes raised isn't real appealing.  I'm not sure what the problems are for sure as I hear a lot of ideas being tossed around.  I heard that the schools in Severy and Moline are old and need to have something done with them.  I don't see why upkeep can't be done.  There in a grade school in Goddard that I know is well over 40 years old as it's been there long before I was and I'm almost 40 now.  And as far as not attracting more teachers....wouldn't it be more prudent to spend extra money to raise teacher wages rather than a new building?  Old building or new building isn't going to affect child learning, although children always like to go to school in nice pretty new schools with all the bells and whistles.  I do tend to agree that losing a school does tend to be a bit of a death blow to a town.  I'd hate to see any more towns fall apart out here.  Piedmont is sort of that way.  The school closed down how many years ago?  And then I hear rumors that the post office may close and then that will just leave the restaurant and the two churches.  And with the population of Elk county steadily declining, the property tax burden for the school is going to continue to fall on fewer and fewer people. 

The district is trying to work towards becoming more efficient, and the best way to do this is to become a one campus district.  We are trying to run a 3 campus system that we can no longer fund.  The state continually cuts the budget and the money is no longer there to proceed as we have in the past. 

At tonight's board meeting a letter was read about auditting school districts and the push by legislature for school districts to become more effiecient.  Each year we are auditted, we can no longer show that by running a 3 campus district we are being efficient.  The state will one day call us on this, and force us to do something drastic as they have with schools in Western Kansas.  We need to do something now, to show that we are addressing these issues and do them on our own accord rather than be told what to do. 

Some people say to close one of the elementaries, but this alone will not provide that savings we need over the long haul.  A one campus facility will allow us to become financially stable.  Yes, it will be a major sacrifice at first.  However, over time we will see the light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. 

Sarah,

Thanks for raising some questions.  I would like to address some of them.

The problem is that state aid per student continues to decline in these economic times.  The cost of operating three campuses has not.  The only way we can cut expenses now is to cut in the classroom. To cut educational programming.

We could do upkeep on the buildings.  This would not address our operational costs.  That would stay the same.  And, this does not address upkeep needed on the HS/JrHS that is over 30 years old now.

We are not building a new building to attract teachers with a new building. You are right. We need to pay our teachers more.  Which gets back to operational funds.  We need to become more efficient to allow for growth in teacher salaries.  We cannot raise any more tax money right now to raise those salaries. Our local option budget is maxed out.  We have no extra money.

A new building will definitely affect our children's education.  And it has nothing to do with being pretty or having bells and whistles.  It has to do w/ money.  If we don't become more efficient w/ operational costs, then we will have to make cuts that affect our children's education. If we do become more efficient, then we can not only maintain our current level of education but we will be able to enhance it.

As far as population decline, if you look at Mark Hall's post, you will see that the decline has slowed.  And I think, in my opinion, shoring up our schools will help stabilize our population.

Lastly, you stated at the beginning of your post that paying more tax isn't real appealing.  If we don't do this, you will see our LOB (school tax that has increased dramatically over the last few years to make ends meet) remain at the highest level.  If we pass the bond,  through efficiency in operation, we will be able to lower the LOB before the bond is paid off.  Post bond (when the bond is paid in full) our taxes will be less than they are now.  This is demonstrated through other school districts like ours. Post bond - their taxes have actually gone down compared to before their bond.

David

This is a graph showing the population of Elk County using the numbers in Mark Hall's post. I think this illustrates that we are not on a steep decline as we were from 1930 to 1970.

David

Thank you David for your replies.

David, I notice that your graph ends in 2000, nearly ten years out of date. It will be interesting to see after the 2010 census.

BTW, there will be an informational meeting hosted by the Red Hat Society this evening at 05:00 PM. Their guests will be members of the school board and the information committee concerning the school bond issue. They have invited all members of the community to participate. Supper can be ordered from the menu at your own expense. Thanks to the Red Hats for this opportunity for this face to face meeting. Meeting will be at The Swinging Bridge Cafe.

There has been a face to face meeting scheduled at 7:30pm every month about the schools since the dawn of time. 
If you want to know what is going on with the school system then go to the school board meetings. 
There was one last night and there was hardly anyone there.  If this is such a hot button issue that is going to affect the future of the entire world why do we show such little concern?


The public information committee is available to speak to anyone at any time about the issues with the bond.  It is made up of citizens from all over the county. 

If the Elk County residents plan to run the census workers off with a shot gun, you still won't know your population or the age of the residents.

That's great that the communications are out and about.  I know that there was a presentation at the Legion meeting last week in Howard.  

I so wish that we could vote since we own property and pay taxes in Elk County, but alas, we are not permanent residents.  As a former educator, it seems only logical to me to get everything centralized.  No matter where the high school could have been built 30 years ago, I feel the elementary should be incorporated into its campus. In retrospect looking back thirty years, it's probably unfortunate this decision wasn't made and carried out then (my opinion only).  It shouldn't be an issue of town against town. Elk County is notorious for these feelings from rivalries generations ago.  It's over folks--let's present a united front for every tomorrow!

I hope people will strongly consider the future of Elk County Schools and their students when they go to the polls!!!!

There is still time for you to establish residence...You have until the 19th of October to register. 

Oh woe....................don't let Rodney know that.........................................................

Quote from: Diane Amberg on October 13, 2009, 02:12:11 PM
If the Elk County residents plan to run the census workers off with a shot gun, you still won't know your population or the age of the residents.

That is only one guy. ................. The census workers are more of a season hunt.  County assessors are shoot on site.

Quote from: pepelect on October 13, 2009, 02:20:56 PM

Quote from: Diane Amberg on October 13, 2009, 02:12:11 PM
If the Elk County residents plan to run the census workers off with a shot gun, you still won't know your population or the age of the residents.

That is only one guy. ................. The census workers are more of a season hunt.  County assessors are shoot on site.

Is there a bag limit?  Do you have to tag their ankle?  Can we put a radio collar on them so we could track 'em?

no....no....and no because that wouldn't be sporting! 

They are easy enough to spot anyway just look at the vehicle behind the big cement truck.

Patryn, if you are really interested in voting in Elk County, call the county clerk and ask her about registration requirements.  Her number is 374-2490.  And anyone else, especially Elk County residents, if you are not registered, please consider doing so and voting.  Pep says you have to Oct. 19 to get registered.

Quick question, part of the Elk county schools is in Severy which is Greenwood county, so I am curious, those that live in Piedmont, does their tax money go to Eureka schools or Howard schools since Piedmont kids go to Howard schools?  And if they do, can they vote on the school deal even if they live in Greenwood county? 
Thanks

If you live in the 282 school district, no matter which of the three counties (EK, CQ, GW)you live in, you can vote on the bond issue.    If you look on your tax statement it will say which district you are taxed in.  If you look on a district map you can tell where the district boundaries are.  The have nothing to do with city or county lines. The town of Piedmont is in Eureka's district as is Grenola in Central.

OK Thanks.  :)

One more question...:D

Are the people that own land in Elk County allowed to vote on this if they do not have a residence in this county, but live else where? 

Sorry for all the questions.  I have people asking me and I don't know the answers.  LOL

Landowner/non-landowner, it doesn't matter.  You have to have legal residency within the boundaries of USD 282 and be registered to vote.  I own property within USD 282, but reside in NW Arkansas, so I will not be able to vote.  

If I could vote, I would vote for the bond issue as I believe it is the only logical and sensible thing that can be done to maintain USD 282 as a viable school district.  Trying to keep the status quo is no longer an option.  Neither is closing one grade school, and keeping the other open, as that would be like putting a band-aid on a deep stab wound and would result in infection and blood loss that will absolutely kill the district as a whole.

The reason I ask is some of my relatives own land out here, adjoining ours actually, but they actually live in Sedgwick county, but it still affects them and so that's why we were wondering if they could vote or not though they do not reside out here, but own land here and will be affected by it on their taxes.  I wasn't sure what to tell them. 

I am undecided in my vote.  ;)

Although the taxes affect us, we are residents of Oklahoma and cannot vote in Elk County.  I just hope the Elk County citizens who are eligible to vote will make sure they are registered and go to the voting polls!!!!!  Support your schools!!!!!!!

From the Kansas Secretary of State on Voter Registration:

QuoteKansas elections are conducted by the counties with oversight by the Secretary of State's office. Voter registration application (español) forms must be submitted to the county election officer where the applicant lives. You may also register to vote or change your registration information online with a valid Kansas driver's license. The deadline to register to vote is the fifteenth day before any election.

http://www.kssos.org/elections/elections_registration.html (http://www.kssos.org/elections/elections_registration.html)

Quote from: flintauqua on October 13, 2009, 06:14:56 PM
From the Kansas Secretary of State on Voter Registration:

QuoteKansas elections are conducted by the counties with oversight by the Secretary of State's office. Voter registration application (español) forms must be submitted to the county election officer where the applicant lives. You may also register to vote or change your registration information online with a valid Kansas driver's license. The deadline to register to vote is the fifteenth day before any election.

http://www.kssos.org/elections/elections_registration.html (http://www.kssos.org/elections/elections_registration.html)

Well, now that is in direct contradiction of an earlier post that said it didn't matter if the people were in Elk County, GW County or CQ counties, as long as they were in this school district they could vote.  Also doesn't seem right that land owners who this bill would directly affect can't vote on it either.  Shrug

But that's all I needed to know was what to tell them.
Thanks

As long as you live (reside) in the school district, you can vote. 
Every registered voter gets only one vote and you can only be registered in the place where you reside.  It's not unfair ~ just the way things work. It has always been this way, and if you choose to own land or property in a different town/district/county/state than you live in, you have also chosen to pay the taxes assessed in that region; it's a package deal.  If I owned a rental house in Butler county, for instance, I certainly could not vote in both their election and the one in Elk County where I live.

Quote from: Sarah on October 13, 2009, 06:21:57 PM

Well, now that is in direct contradiction of an earlier post that said it didn't matter if the people were in Elk County, GW County or CQ counties, as long as they were in this school district they could vote. 

For Clarification:

If you live in Greenwood County, and within USD 282, then you register to vote in Eureka.

If you live in Elk County, and within USD 282, then you register to vote in Howard.

If you live in Chautauqua County and within USD 282, then you register to vote in Sedan.

Or, according to the quote from the Sect of State, you can register online.

Quote from: Joanna on October 13, 2009, 06:39:15 PM
As long as you live (reside) in the school district, you can vote. 
Every registered voter gets only one vote and you can only be registered in the place where you reside.  It's not unfair ~ just the way things work. It has always been this way, and if you choose to own land or property in a different town/district/county/state than you live in, you have also chosen to pay the taxes assessed in that region; it's a package deal.  If I owned a rental house in Butler county, for instance, I certainly could not vote in both their election and the one in Elk County where I live.

I thought about that too, that a person could vote in a presidential election in every county they owned land in.  :)

Quote from: flintauqua on October 13, 2009, 06:43:04 PM

Quote from: Sarah on October 13, 2009, 06:21:57 PM

Well, now that is in direct contradiction of an earlier post that said it didn't matter if the people were in Elk County, GW County or CQ counties, as long as they were in this school district they could vote. 

For Clarification:

If you live in Greenwood County, and within USD 282, then you register to vote in Eureka.

If you live in Elk County, and within USD 282, then you register to vote in Howard.

If you live in Chautauqua County and within USD 282, then you register to vote in Sedan.

Or, according to the quote from the Sect of State, you can register online.

Thank you for the clarification!  :)

Sarah, are you registered to vote? No matter how you vote, by not voting, you are allowing someone else to take responsibility for the way things are, or will be. Voting is not only a right but a responsibility, just as serving on a jury is. A reminder to everyone, be certain that you are properly registered to vote, then exercise that right on Nov3. Unlike others, I will not suggest how that vote should go, as I think everyone should make that decisiion themselves. See you at the polls, and do not assume that your vote does not matter, a close vote could determine whether this election goes one way or another, and your vote could make the difference. Get out and vote on Nov3!  :police:

Yes I am and I vote every major election and I'll be there for this one.  :D  Thank you for asking though.  My husband is also registered and he'll be there also.  :-) 

Was paying for the school by raising sales tax instead of property tax ever discussed?
Anybody know what percentage of registered voters are property owners? It doesn't seem right for a person that is not a property owner to be able to vote to raise my property tax.

I do believe that sales tax is a more fair tax.

The only problem is that if you live here you pay property tax here. Just because you live here doesn't mean that you shop here.

I don't think there would be enough retail sales to drive a sales tax revenue stream.  Look at current annual sales tax reports from the state. It is around $10k per month.  That currently is a 1% sales tax.  If you raise the local taxes you drive away consumers to surrounding areas that don't have the tax.  The other obstacle is that we encompass three tax collecting venues.  Elk, Greenwood, and Chautauqua counties.  How do you inforce a sales tax for half of one county, one forth of another, and part of a third.  It would be a logistical nightmare. 

We don't have a great many businesses in Elk County that produce much sales tax.  You would have to raise the sales tax 2-3% and it would be up there for longer than 15 years to generate enough revenue to ever catch up with the bond payment. You could stretch out the bond to 25 or even 30 years and lower your yearly payment but you would be getting the same amount of school for 160% the price.
  Remember every year we have a bond costs up to 4.25% in interest.

There were 1872 registered voters in the last election.  I think more have registered since then. 

This is the American way of democracy.  We only get two senators.  We only get one vote once no matter how much land you own.  And you can only vote where you reside.  With that said you can move anytime to whereever you want,  pay taxes,  and vote from there. 

Make sure you register by the 19th of October to be able to vote on the 3rd. of November.

OK, hate to muddy the waters, but I got confused on all the voting information.  Can someone clear it up for me?

The bond question in the election on Nov 3 is open to ALL Elk county residents who are registered to vote?  Or is it only for EK residents registered and reside WITHIN USD 282 boundaries (i.e. can people who live in Longton and kids attend Longton vote on this bond)?
Can residents (i.e. Severy) who vote and reside in GW county go to Eureka and vote on the bond issue if they reside within USD 282 boundaries?
Will ALL EK land be taxed, or just the land that is within the boundaries of USD 282 (so Longton land won't be taxed, as Howard/Moline land were not taxed for Longton's school bonds, either)?
Will other counties (GW) land be taxed if they reside within USD 282 boundaries?

So bottom line... if you live anywhere within USD 282 boundaries, you can vote (in your proper registered county location) and land will be taxed (but only the land within USD 282 boundaries)?  ???

you are correct....  :)  (And Severy residents vote in Severy)

Thank you okiemon we have been wondering the same thing.
Jane

I am still waiting for the the VOTE NO! party to present their plan for sustaining the three school model.  If you can come up with a viable plan I would listen. 

A negative campaign is not a solution.  I agree that more information needs to be reviewed but there still has to be a plan to go forward even with a defeated bond issue. 


If you still need more information on the proposed bond issue the Moline Chamber will meet next week. I think they meet on Monday.  I am not sure of the time.   The Public Information Committee has been asked to attend.   I can't make it that night but well informed members will be present. 

Meeting 7pm Monday night, Moline Swinging Bridge.

Listen, we don't all agree.  Nothing new about that!  But all of you for and against had better get all the facts before you vote.  Also, a negative vote will not mean a victory for the "No" votes.   There will be a plan B, how many of you know what it is?  Have you asked the school board that question?  Things will not continue as they are, changes in our schools will take place regardless.  Know what the plan will be if the bond issue does not pass.

There is no plan 'B', as the board could not reach a concensus. This was from a school board member as of last Tuesday night at the Red Hat meeting. Having a new building does not assure that the state will not decide to combine this district with another in a few years. Here is my solution; The high school in Howard is the least cost effective to operate; we should close it and move those students to Severy and use the Moline gradeschool for the lower grades. This would alleviate the duplicate teacher situation and eliminate an expensive building.

Yes, you are right about the school board not reaching a consensus at the last meeting.  However, the holdouts are waiting to see what happens with the bond issue.   If the bond does not pass, the holdouts indicated a willingness to go to a Plan B, whatever that is.   Regardless, something will have to change whether it is a new school or closing a buillding, or some other way of going to one campus.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 16, 2009, 12:08:13 PM
There is no plan 'B', as the board could not reach a consensus. This was from a school board member as of last Tuesday night at the Red Hat meeting. Having a new building does not assure that the state will not decide to combine this district with another in a few years. Here is my solution; The high school in Howard is the least cost effective to operate; we should close it and move those students to Severy and use the Moline gradeschool for the lower grades. This would alleviate the duplicate teacher situation and eliminate an expensive building.

If you would come to a school board meeting you wouldn't have half the information that you dispel as the truth. 
5 out of 7 board members agreed that the future of West Elk surrounds one campus.  One campus means that all the facilities at one place.   

We have already alleviated the duplicate teacher situation.    We have current facility expenses that add up to more than half the cost of a new building.  It doesn't make sense to keep spending upkeep money on buildings designed 50 years before the current curriculum was even thought up.    We have tried one principal for two buildings at least 10 times in the last 30 years and it doesn't work.   The savings would be for the long term we can not keep two elementaries open with out in building administration. 

The high school in Howard is the least cost effective per square foot of the three buildings only because it is twice as big as the other two buildings.  It has heated and centrally air conditioned classrooms.  It offers programs that can not be duplicated on the existing campus of Moline and Severy with out a major influx of cash which means an increase in taxes.  You have the athletic facilities, vo ag, art, music, and the largest lunchroom all in one central location. 

Pep, what part of my post was not the 'truth'? The part that you disagree with? I labeled the part that I said was my own opinion as being my own opinion. The highschool building is not cost effective per square foot only because it is bigger? Huh? :o :o

I have a question. How have you already alleviated the duplicate teacher situation when the last I knew there were two classes for each grade at Moline and Severy so did some teachers lose their job when the changes were made last year?
Also has a poll been taken as who will stay an who will go if the bond passes?
Thank you
Janed

Severy is K thru 3rd and also have a preschool and special ed teacher.  Moline is 4-6 with a kindergarten and preschool and special ed teacher.  There is only on class that has two teachers and that is the 6th grade.  So they have cut the number of teachers down.  Not really in half, but teacher size is down.

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 16, 2009, 02:55:09 PM
Pep, what part of my post was not the 'truth'? The part that you disagree with? I labeled the part that I said was my own opinion as being my own opinion. The high school building is not cost effective per square foot only because it is bigger? Huh? :o :o

The state audit recommended that the inefficients small schools in Kansas be consolidated.  It did not say we are next on the chopping block.  I think a 5to7 straw poll is a consensus.  It is not unanimous but would still keep the state from thinking that we are going to continue on the same wasteful spending spree that we have been on for twenty years.  Yes the bigger the square foot the larger the amount of area to teach.  You can't teach physical education in a broom closet to very many students at a time.  The grade schools are not equipped to teach high school classes.  To suggest that they are equal to the high school building is foolish.  It is apples to oranges. 

If it was as simple as you make it out don't you think that it would have already been tried?  It costsmore money to operate the three campus system than what funds we have to do so.  We are trying to change the way we spend what little money we have to better educate our children. 

How is that making me a villian in this situation?  I will agree with every logical point you bring forward. 

Pep, just a couple of comments--- the first is, the last time I looked, Moline has a very nice gymnasium, and I suspect that Severy does too. Second, the concensus  or the statement that the board could not reach a consensus came from a schoolboard member, not an assumptiion by myself or anyone else other than the board. Third, If the highschool is not efficient, then maybe it has too few students for its' size; a room designed for 30-40 students should not be supported nor expect to be supported by 10-15 students. Perhaps it would be best for the highschool to be moved to another location where the building size more closely matches the student body size. After all this student body has been shrinking for quite awhile, and will probably continue do so.

If you consider yourself a villian, it's okay by me, I have never called you that. And as far as logic is concerned, I am still awaiting the logic used to build a building, possibly dessimate two communities, lay off many school employees, and still expect them to pay an outrageous amount of taxes. All this for a shrinking student body throughout the district. That my friend, is not logical IMHO.

Moline's has a multipurpose room.  It is too small to be used as a basketball gym.  It is too small to be used as a  volleyball gym.  It is not even utilized as a stage for music and plays.  It doesn't have enough seating for the events mentioned.  Severy's gym is large enough but is not insulated.  So you have $4000 gas bills just to  keep it luke warm.  It only has one furnace that works and the water lines are a joke.   I never said the high school was not efficient.  It has higher utilities per square foot.  That is not all you have to look at.  Every bathroom is ADA compliant.   The facility is large enough to handle more than one event at a time.  The grade schools are very hard to cool.  The gas boilers in both elementary schools are old and need replaced.  The high school doesn't have asbestos issues.  There is no lead paint issues. 

You can't even get a wheel chair in to the front door at Moline.

It is not the job of the school system to employ people.   It the job of the school system to educate.

The logic is that with less students you need less school.  Why is keeping two elementary buildings economically viable if we only need one no matter where they are located?  What does the location of the building have to do with the quality of the education.  It is more logical to have one efficient campus of pre-k to 12th at one location.   A new building designed for the education of today is more logical than two buildings designed for fifty years ago.  It costs less to build a school building with better windows, doors, tornado protection, security than to keep pouring money into a aged structure for the next 15 years.   It is more logical to have less school employees that are not needed and pay teachers what they deserve.    It is logical to have one central campus to eliminate redundant busing.

How many standards of excellence awards will we achieve if we are actually spending money on education not maintenance and upkeep?


2009 Standards of Excellence Schools


D0282 2442 West Elk Howard West Elk Jr‐Sr High Reading 7
D0282 2442 West Elk Howard West Elk Jr‐Sr High Reading 8
D0282 2442 West Elk Howard West Elk Jr‐Sr High Reading Bldg.‐Wide
D0282 2442 West Elk Howard West Elk Jr‐Sr High Math 6
D0282 2442 West Elk Howard West Elk Jr‐Sr High Math 7
D0282 2442 West Elk Howard West Elk Jr‐Sr High Math Bldg.‐Wide
D0282 2442 West Elk Howard West Elk Jr‐Sr High Science 7
D0282 2442 West Elk Howard West Elk Jr‐Sr High Science Bldg.‐Wide
D0282 2444 West Elk Moline Elem Reading 3
D0282 2444 West Elk Moline Elem Reading 5
D0282 2444 West Elk Moline Elem Math 3
D0282 2444 West Elk Moline Elem Math 4
D0282 2444 West Elk Moline Elem Math 5
D0282 2444 West Elk Moline Elem Math Bldg.‐Wide
D0282 2444 West Elk Moline Elem Science Bldg.‐Wide
D0282 2448 West Elk Severy Elem Reading 5
D0282 2448 West Elk Severy Elem Reading Bldg.‐Wide
D0282 2448 West Elk Severy Elem Math 4
D0282 2448 West Elk Severy Elem Math 5
D0282 2448 West Elk Severy Elem Math Bldg.‐Wide
D0282 2448 West Elk Severy Elem Science Bldg.‐Wide
D0282 2448 West Elk Severy Elem Writing Bldg.‐Wide

So, 5.5 mill will buy us a building that never needs maintainence, requires no energy, and will make Einsteins of all of the zero students left when they have been sent to another district? You know in your heart of hearts it is coming. Does it really make sense to spend all that money on a building that we do not really need. Why didn't you build a new building when you opened the grocery? I know that the renovations you did make had to be very expensive, but in the end it was considered to be better than building from scratch wasn't it? I would like to know why it is that both elementary schools are needing all these things and no budgeting had been done for it. Only foolish people would assume that a furnace, pipes etc would never need maintainence. There isn't enough seating for events at Moline? Hello? You ever been to a Moline event, must've been late to not find a seat. We usually do have a good turnout of parents and members of the community. And that's great! We want to keep that sense of community!

Quote from: sixdogsmom on October 16, 2009, 09:06:22 PM
and will make Einsteins of all of the zero students left when they have been sent to another district? You know in your heart of hearts it is coming. Does it really make sense to spend all that money on a building that we do not really need. Why didn't you build a new building when you opened the grocery? I know that

i was wondering about that too, most of elk is aging population, not a young population having children.   One other thing i was wondering about too is if you consolidate all the schools in howard, how long would a kid that lives at the farthest corner of the county have to ride a bus to and from school everyday.

if the schoolkids are dwindling, how about a smaller campus designed so that it can be added onto later on IF there is a increase in kids?  I believe like you do sixdogs that when schools shut down so goes the town.  Maybe there will be residents there, but itwon't thrive.  Seen far too many towns collapse when the school disappeared.  Its a fact that people move to a town with a local school around.  That is one of the biggest selling points in the real estate market when marketing a home.  People want to know how far the school is from their potential new home.  Its ranked right up there with job distance.

New buildings provide better lighting from natural light requiring less electrical lighting.  The electrical lighting that is provided is very high efficient and designed for a better learning environment.  The windows are insulated low e keeping out summer heat and letting light fill the rooms.  The walls are insulated to a high r value.  The hvac systems have electronic control systems that turn heat/cool on and off at different times of the day.  It is a waste of money to heat/cool when there is no one in the building.  The wall systems actually let the building breathe letting moisture out of the building instead of rotting the structure.  Class rooms are designed to allow technology to be seamlessly used to make the student absorb the information in different ways.  Every child learns differently so the classroom has to have the ability to meet that need.  Double doors are a very good way of keeping the cooled/heated environment of the inside away from the outside atmosphere.  We can communicate through out a new structure via intercom or integrated computer network.  Safety from harsh weather is a very big deal.  A hardened structure is the best bet against tornado in Kansas.  

Every dollar that we spend to make the building more efficient saves that much or more in future energy needs.  If you cut the energy consumption of the building by only 10 percent in ten years you have paid for the installation.  In ten years the money you would have spent on the gas bill or electricity bill could be used to pay a teacher to actually teach.  

I have totally rebuilt the entire structure from what I purchased 14 year ago.  I tore down three perfectly good 50+ year old structures and integrated the lot into a larger usable building.  

If I could do it all over again I would have built a huge building 14 years ago.  It would have made more sense to build a new stand alone building when we decided to build on  the grocery store.  If I would have owned property next to a highway or in a larger lot I would have done just that.  I would have spent less money and it would have been done allot faster than what we are doing.  

I have been to every event for the last 8 years at Moline and there isn't enough seating for events that is why for the last 3 years all the programs have been held at the high school auditorium or gym.  

There are a lot of people in this area working long hours to make it a better place to live, to work and to raise families.  The same questions have been asked dozens of times and have been patiently and ably answered again and again.  Refusing to admit there is a problem is not going to make it go away.

A defeatist attitude is so frustrating for people who are working to make the population and economy improve.  Vague comments that the school population will likely decrease till it's gone, or that the state will likely force a consolidation in the future are not realistic and not helpful to either side of the issue. It is definitely a negative attitude for a home town or district.  Is there no hope then, for anyone in small rural towns?  Why would a person live in a place that they so obviously believe has no future? I certainly didn't move here to die; I moved here to enjoy life even more.

I believe Elk County is getting better by leaps and bounds.  I believe that a new facility for the grade school will be cheaper in the long run; and I believe it will definitely improve the education of our students, partly by using available money for actual teaching instead of plumbing, roofing or other structural maintenance issues.  We all know that every building need maintenance, but it is also common sense that a new building will need a fraction of the maintenance of two 40something year old buildings.  It would have been great if the school board over the last 40 years had put back money for new boilers, but it didn't happen... maybe for the same reason so many people don't put back more money for retirement ~ the extra cash just wasn't there. At any rate, we can't change the past, just work to make the future better.

My children are grown, but I see how the education of all the area children is important to my life.  With one campus, it is likely we won't have as many school employees, however if the ones we have are better paid it is a good tradeoff in my opinion; and to have fewer staff because we need less and not because we can't afford them is a good thing. I know my taxes will go up, both for my home and my farm, but they won't be outrageous; they will be my fair share and part of the cost of owning property in USD#282, Kansas, USA. I'm committed to my home.  I will continue to work to make my community improve and grow as best I can.  I feel confident in my decision to vote yes.

Well said Joanna..and I agree 100%.... :)

I know I will be in trouble for this. Why not leave the high school the way it is and use the Longton School as the grade School?
I sure that has been looked into.
Jane :(

Quote from: Teresa on October 17, 2009, 01:17:17 AM
Well said Joanna..and I agree 100%.... :)

Ditto.

Thank you,

David

Good reasoning, Joanna. I also enjoyed Janet Harrington's post of this past week on the issue. But again ... I've not a voter there so I'll just watch from the sidelines.

Quote from: Joanna on October 16, 2009, 10:11:50 PM
There are a lot of people in this area working long hours to make it a better place to live, to work and to raise families.  The same questions have been asked dozens of times and have been patiently and ably answered again and again.  Refusing to admit there is a problem is not going to make it go away.

A defeatist attitude is so frustrating for people who are working to make the population and economy improve.  Vague comments that the school population will likely decrease till it's gone, or that the state will likely force a consolidation in the future are not realistic and not helpful to either side of the issue. It is definitely a negative attitude for a home town or district.  Is there no hope then, for anyone in small rural towns?  Why would a person live in a place that they so obviously believe has no future? I certainly didn't move here to die; I moved here to enjoy life even more.

I believe Elk County is getting better by leaps and bounds.  I believe that a new facility for the grade school will be cheaper in the long run; and I believe it will definitely improve the education of our students, partly by using available money for actual teaching instead of plumbing, roofing or other structural maintenance issues.  We all know that every building need maintenance, but it is also common sense that a new building will need a fraction of the maintenance of two 40something year old buildings.  It would have been great if the school board over the last 40 years had put back money for new boilers, but it didn't happen... maybe for the same reason so many people don't put back more money for retirement ~ the extra cash just wasn't there. At any rate, we can't change the past, just work to make the future better.

My children are grown, but I see how the education of all the area children is important to my life.  With one campus, it is likely we won't have as many school employees, however if the ones we have are better paid it is a good tradeoff in my opinion; and to have fewer staff because we need less and not because we can't afford them is a good thing. I know my taxes will go up, both for my home and my farm, but they won't be outrageous; they will be my fair share and part of the cost of owning property in USD#282, Kansas, USA. I'm committed to my home.  I will continue to work to make my community improve and grow as best I can.  I feel confident in my decision to vote yes.

I'm not against the building a new school, but I don't think a new school is what's going to attract people to this area.  First reason why people tend to be moving away instead of to is because unless you're a rancher, there's not a whole lot of places to work out here and unless you get a job in the city....well, I know a lot of people out here that used to work in Wichita and ranch on the side, but with the economy the way it is and gas prices like they are, that's not feasible any more.  Then you have the water issues.  Most people don't want to haul water, especially those used to having it delivered to their front door.  And so that aspect keeps it from attracting a lot of new people.  The town only holds so many, the rest are all rural.  I don't think a new school is going to make or break the county. 

Maxine and I have been reading all the treads on here and we notice that some of the questions asked have not been answered. So we are going to try and some questions. Will the water in Howard get better for the new school. Not sure if Howard will be affected but Maxine and I just read that the State is going to consolidate over 220 schools so if the bond does not pass will the State come in and take over. Also we would like to know and this has not been answered. What are the new business's and were in Elk County are they? How many in Moline and Howard? We are  not trying to be negitive just worried that our taxes will go way up again. As far as more money to Teachers, we would only hope that would attract Teachers with upto date teaching methods. Keep in mind Teachers are paid on a 12 month contract but they only work 190 Days a year. Maxine was a teacher at one time and she did like that paycheck in June and July while school was out. We also are hearing that some schools are cutting out summer school to cut down on cost. The thought process is "If they did not learn in 9 months what is 3 weeks at half days going to help"? We are assuming the busses that USD 282 use are upto date and not money will have to be spent to replace them. 
I suppose I should let Maxine spell check and correct but she is so slow I do not have time to wait. They are waiting for me to come to Brunch.
So everyone have a great day.
Two old women still living and kicking.

No, not all teachers have a 12 month contract. Mine was always 10 months. We had the option of having money withheld from each paycheck to the credit union and it was sent to us across the summer to level out the pay periods each year. I was never paid for doing nothing.

Thats fine Diane, but Maxine and I were talking about Kansas. We were not interested in the east coast but Thanks for the information.
Maude

 ::) ::) ::) Hmmmmmmm, , , I was not aware that teachers in Kansas were always paid on a 12 month contract.  I thought that (and it was when I worked in the school system) was, as Diane said, up to the teacher because some take it for the teaching months and get a summer job to tide them over.  Maybe things have changed, tho.

Once again Maxine and I see we have gotten off the orginal thread. If we want to converse about teachers pay then a new topic should be started. This is a thread about the Nov 3rd Bond issue and the questions I ask about it.
Maude and Maxine

Sorry. I could have sworn that you brought it up. I'm not sure how the length of the teachers' contracts has anything with the bond bill, but we young folks in our mid 60s can be lenient with you old creaky folks.....just teasing, honest.

What is the questions?

Water

State consolidation

New business in elk county:  bryants blooms, DM Guns, Family market, Traci's trends, Associated shippers, .......Have no clue what this has to do with bond issue....Flinthills wireless, Ranchers best beef, Venessa Photography.....what is this list for?

teachers work sometimes in the summer...Never after 3:30, rarely start at the first bell, don't attend ball games, never escort math relay teams, don't get raises or steps and don't even have blackboards anymore.....

We haven't used buses in years.   All the kids drive school provided Lamborginhi's and Jaguars.  We ordered two new bus this summer.

One time at band camp I had to learn how to play an instrument that I had never played before.  It required me to blow air through a mouth piece and sound came out the other side.  It was so wierd.  The camp lasted 5 days.  We had to eat at a cafeteria in these little chairs.  One time I built a chair out of some wood that used to be apart of a pallet.  I called it a pallet chair.  It was oak I think or maybe it was pine.  Sometimes cedar smells really good especially if you put it in a trunk with your bedding for the summer.     I am hungry for popcorn.

Sometimes they are issued Fords and Chevys but only because they are easier to spell.



I know. I know.  But it is just so easy.

Quote from: Jane on October 17, 2009, 04:19:36 AM
I know I will be in trouble for this. Why not leave the high school the way it is and use the Longton School as the grade School?
I sure that has been looked into.
Jane :(

Jane, No one seemed to want to touch your question, so I will.  Elk Valley, the school at Longton, is a different school district, so that isn't an option at this time.

  I believe that if we are not showing the state that we are running USD 282 efficiently, they will do what THEY see is the most efficient, which may mean consoldidating with another district.  I don't think we are on the "chopping block" just yet but with 20 to 30 students per class we need to be looking at being more efficient than we currently are.  We need to do all we can to show them we are using "their" money wisely.
The whole reason for choosing to put it in Howard, is because it is more centrally located for EVERONE, including those students we serve in Piedmont, near Fall River, Longton, and Grenola.  That is why Longton grade school, at this point, is not the best option.  Also, like Janet said, that would require consolidation with Elk Valley school district which opens a whole new can of worms! :o
  Some are saying, "Have they talked about putting the grade school rooms into the Vo-Ag area and building a Vo-Ag building?  That would require a HUGE amount of cash first off to bring everything to the standards required for a newly built school structure as then the whole high school would have to be brought up to standards. (i.e. sprinkler systems, etc.)  Also you would be putting this huge amount of cash into a building that is already 30 years old.  So when it gets to the point (as every building eventually does) that it needs replaced, you will have to pass a bond for 1 building that includes grade school, jr high and high school! Yikes! $5.5 million won't even touch that!
  Let's "bite the bullet" now and vote yes so we won't be FORCED by the State to consolidate!

Thanks Julie, a simple answer is all I needed.
Jane

Jane:

Longton Elementary is not big enough to add WE Elementary students to it, even it that were an option.

Quote from: jprxmkt on October 19, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
Let's "bite the bullet" now and vote yes so we won't be FORCED by the State to consolidate!

Well said.  Well said.

Senate Ways and Means Subcommittee on the Education Budget
February 25, 2009
West Elk USD #282 is a rural school district located in southeast Kansas. We are considered a
"frontier" county with over 520 square miles contained within our boundaries. Elk County is
one of the poorest counties in assessed valuation in the state. We have been experiencing a
decline in our enrollment for 12 of the last 15 years resulting in a loss of nearly 200 students
since the 1992-93 school year. West Elk USD #282 is the largest employer in Elk County.
The district has been supplementing the general fund through a Local Option Budget of
$900,000 as a result of our decline in enrollment. We have the ability to raise $1,500,000 through
the LOB, and we will need to access the remaining $150,000 in authority as a result of our
decline in enrollment.
The district will apply the following plan in order to reduce our general fund budget by 10% for
the 2009-10. That will mean a reduction of $351,900 based on our audited general fund budget
for 2008-09 of $3,519,000.
The district provided notice to all elementary non-tenured teachers in February that their
positions would be reduced for the 2009-10 school year. This includes a Kindergarten teacher,
Second Grade teacher, Elementary Music teacher, and Elementary Interrelated Resource Room
teacher. The district also took action to non-renew the junior/senior high school part-time
Counselor.
Reductions already acted on by the West Elk Board of Education to prepare for a 10% general
fund budget reduction for 2009-10:
• Non-renew one non-tenured Kindergarten teacher -$35,000.
• Non-renew one non-tenured Second grade teacher - $34,000.
• Non-renew the non-tenured Elementary Music teacher - $45,000.
• Non-renew one non-tenured Elementary Interrelated Resource Room teacher - $0 (State
Aid and Federal Flow Through reimburse this position).
• Non-renew the non-tenured .67 Counselor - $28,000.
Further reductions considered by the West Elk Board of Education to meet the 10% general fund
reduction budget for 2009-10:
o Move to a four day school week (reduce the calendar by 11 days) - @$55,000.
2
o Consolidate the elementary programs to one campus - @$128,000.
o Reduce elective credits at the junior/senior high school - @$50,000.
Negative outcomes of a 10% general fund budget reduction discussed by the West Elk Board of
Education:
 Larger elementary class sizes.
 Reduction in hours for classified employees by moving to a four day per week school
calendar.
 Elementary students will no longer receive a solid foundation in music.
 Junior/senior high school students will not have a counselor to assist them to cope with
personal, family, school, life problems.
 The closure of one elementary school will result in a division among our patrons in the
community that looses their elementary school resulting in parents using the 10 mile rule
to attend another school district or choosing to home-school their child(ren).
 A reduction in force will result in local businesses suffering as a result of less purchasing
power.
 Students will not receive the best education to prepare them for post-secondary
opportunities including access to training and/or employment.
 The No Child Left Behind requirements may be compromised as a result of larger class
sizes with limited time for remediation of content deficiencies.
 The district will be limited in its ability to support any increases in the health insurance
fringe benefit resulting in staff having to contribute more towards their health insurance
coverage.
 Classified and licensed employees will receive minimal increases in salary or no
increases.
 The district may not be able to replace its aging buses.
 The district may be limited in its ability to perform needed maintenance of facilities.
 Professional development opportunities will be limited to the funds the district receives
through the federal Title funds.
 Technology purchases will be limited.
 Student activities will be reduced which keep many of our students engaged in school.
 The aging community will be forced to pick up the burden of paying more taxes through
the maximization of the LOB and increases in the Capital Outlay fund.
 The district will not be able to maintain its high proficiency standard for students
participating in the Reading and Math NCLB assessments.
 Course offerings will be limited at the junior/senior high school if additional reductions
in budget are required.

This was in Feburary of 2009.  Where is the next 10% going to come from?

It seems to me that you are very concerned with the changes that may take place. However, I wonder if your concern comes from a fear of the unknown, the fear from listening to your friends who do not do well with change, or just FEAR.  Matthew 6:27 says do not worry as it will not add a single how to your life. (paraphrased)

Just give it to God. 

I have read some of your blogs and I am afraid that some things you have stated are not true.  I am not sure where you have gotten your information.  I would like to suggest you set up a time to visit the elementary schools while they are in sessions, look at the cramped classrooms, ( They could NOT house all the 210 Elementary students, let alone the whole district.) look at the out dated electrical. (as they ARE NOT set up for the modern technology... but they do very well for what they have.)