Its the 40th anniversary of Woodstock.
Tim (my 9 yr old son) and I were listening to the radio (classic rock) on Saturday. They were talking about the artists of Woodstock. He asked me about Woodstock. Later in the day he asked me, "Dad, did anyone in our family go to Woodstock?" I replied with, "No. Not that I know of." His response was, "Too bad. I would really like to hear their stories about it."
So, I thought, why don't I ask the Forum friend. Do any of you have personal stories, stories of family members, or other recollections of Woodstock or the time surrounding it. I thought it would be fun and education for him. Remember, his 9. Don't leave out all that happened but don't be too graphic. ;)
Thanks,
David
I wish I had the personal experiences that your son would like to hear. In 1969 I worked as a newsman/announcer for a CBS affiliate in Oklahoma City. Even though Woodstock was a long ways from our station, our viewers seemed to hold high interest in the event.
Woodstock emanated two huge stories. One was the mud-mired, drug-smoking, free-sex scene in that pasture located near Bethel, N.Y. That's interesting in itself --- Bethel is located about 45 miles from the town of Woodstock, N.Y.
Older folks around the country were outraged at what they considered to be blatant immorality at Woodstock. However, most of those attending the festival came home with different stories --- relating the cultural,musical and protest music they enjoyed. That, after all, is the hallmark of living in this great country --- being able to express ourselves in whatever format we choose.
As a midwesterner, of course, I wasn't too involved in the Woodstock culture, but over the years I have learned to appreciate its place in American history. Political, cultural, social and religious discourse can be ugly. And it can be beautiful. Sometimes the same point in history can be viewed as either/or. Woodstock definitely was one of those places and one of those times.
Great! Keep it coming! Rudy, although you were not present, I think that personal insight and recollection is exactly what Tim wants to hear. If anyone has personal mud slinging stories, that is good too.
Thanks,
David
David,
I have "recollections of Woodstock or the time surrounding it". No I wasn't at Bethel NY but was 8,429 miles away on the other side of the world. Maybe when you tell your young grandson about the "free love and LSD trips" you could please tell him that from August 15-18, while Woodstock rocked, that 109 brave American soldiers gave their life in Vietnam.
Thanks
Jarhead
I was only 9 but think it would've been one of those things that was worth the trouble I'd have been in for goin!
Diane - absolutely want to hear from anyone. All Forum friends.
Jarhead - I want him to understand the "whole" story. Thank you for sharing.
David
Come on Diane, share your wealth with us. I have a feeling you can be a welth of information on this one. ;)
Thanks Dr. Dave. (Look out Great, here I come!) ;D I was 24 the summer of Woodstock. In some ways things were a bit like now. An unpopular war was happening in a far away country that most of us didn't know much about. Every evening on the news we heard about " body counts," American and Viet Cong soldiers' deaths. We still had the draft then and all males had to register at age 18. Most knew if their number came up they would be headed to Viet Nam. Some didn't understand what we were fighting for and if their draft number was called they ran to Canada to hide. Our economy wasn't in very good shape then either.
Long hair for boys was pretty new and the hippie boys grew it very long. They wanted to be different from their parents. They wanted peace not war and wanted to make this country a better place.They talked about it a lot and wrote songs about it too. The hippie girls had very long hair also and wore peace rings and lots of beads and flowers. Rock music was very popular and some of the bands of today were just getting their start then. People really liked to have parties, the bigger the better, with lots music and food and laughing and unfortunately, drugs and alcohol. Anybody could come and everybody had a good time. It was often called ''A Be In." You could just come and be yourself. That summer people were very gloomy, even though we had just gone to the moon. A lot of our soldiers had given their lives in Viet Nam and many young people couldn't understand why. A group decided they could make some money and help people feel better at the same time. They got permission to use a man's 600 acre farm in New York state for a huge party. Boy, did it turn out even bigger than they planned! Some 500,000 young people showed up for 3 days of rock music and fun. Everyone sat on the farm's hill sides and watched the big stage that looked much like the big rock band stages of today.
I almost went myself, but I had a classroom to open up and teachers meetings to go to and I was afraid I might not make it back in time. I had a lot of friends that went and of course they told me all about it.
They had a fence around the area and a gate that people went through after they got their ticket if they didn't already have one. But there were so many people there, they finally pushed down the fence and everyone else went in for free. Unfortunately, it rained quite a bit and made a lot of mud. People just slept on the ground or where ever they could and didn't care if they got dirty. The music just played and played and played. Many people danced and sang and held hands and ran around together. The stage got very wet and the wiring got soaked and some of the guitar players got shocks as they tried to play. Some people ran out of food and water, but others shared and some got very sick from taking too many drugs. One girl even had a baby while she was there! Some of the time it got rather hot and some of them tried to cool off by taking part of their clothes off, even the girls! There were some porta potties there but not nearly enough for that many people and things got pretty stinky. They had a lot of ambulances that stayed to take care of bug bites and sick people but everybody had a good time anyway. I know I won't remember every singer and band that was there, but some were: The Greatful Dead, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Sly and the Family Stone, Jefferson Airplane, The Who, Blood, Sweat and Tears, Santana, Sha- na- na, Arlo Guthrie, Jimmy Henrix, Janis Joplin, Joan Baez and Joe Cocker.
The people who went just wanted some time to be happy and make new friends, share common thoughts and feelings and enjoy good music, have peace and love and forget the world for awhile. Some couples met there for the very first time and got married later. Of course all of us are much older now and got married and had families, but for the ones that went it was something they'll never forget. Any questions?
No questions from me. You will be getting an a on your report though. Thank you from this Kansas kid.
I am a bit older than Diane, but I must tell you that you can get a sense of the times by visiting the wall memorial in Winfield, Kansas with all the boys' from Kansas names that did not come home from that war. It is especially stirring to visit on Veterans Day and to realise that at least two of those boys were your younger brothers' friends growing up. That one at least spent his summers along with my younger brother making life miserable for a budding teenage girl. That one at least helped dig the numerous foxholes in our yard until my dad fell into one. That was the end of those war games for Tommy and my brother. Those two boys were both born in the house I grew up in, one was wasted in a needless war. It was many years before I became a true peacenik, it was many years before the man I married talked about Viet Nam and the waste of our young men. He spent two tours there and worked as a load master on KC135s. Often they brought body bags out of Viet Nam, and that bothered him very much. He was there during the Tet Offensive, and spoke of the stark terror of those firefights. Don't Wanna Make War No More!
Diane, that was a wonderful report! Thank you.
Rudy and Diane thanks for your posts. I was Tim Whetstone's age during Woodstock and like him I would like to hear the stories from that time. I have a post for Tim about Woodstock and that era that I will post later. I just wanted to let you know that the 8\9 year old boy in me appreciates your posts. Diane were you an English teacher? Your short post covered 3 books worth of information on Woodstock.
David
I have been trying very hard to recall those days or, I should say, that time of my life. I know I was working at the Hollywood branch of Wallichs Music City as an assistant manager then. Music City sold anything and everything that had to do with music with the obvious records on through musical instruments, theater tickets, and a large television/stereo department. As you see in electronic stores these days, there was a TV or several TVs on all the time. I can remember watching the news and seeing what was happening in Woodstock. Of course, TV coverage wasn't what it is today. There was no 24 hour news coverage then.
I think the real effect it had on us West Coast people was that there was a big concert going on back East, 3000 miles away, so whoop-de-doo. I do remember that the store tried to capitalize on Woodstock by displaying, prominently, albums of the artists who were playing at the concert.
I recall that my favorite memory was that of Jimi Hendrix and his rendition of the Star Spangled Banner. There was a big controversy at the time about that. Many thought it bordered on sacreligious and others (me incliuded) thought it was a great interpretation of the music. Of course, since I have aged, I can't stand it when some rap star tries to sing the Star Spangled Banner at a game and makes it sound disgusting. But, when Jimi did it, it was too cool.
Diane covered this very well. Her memory of this event is much better than mine. Thanks, Diane.
Larryj
Second note: I was surfing and looked at a website about Woodstock. There are a lot of pictures taken and posted on many sites. Somewhere on another thread, perhaps, Swimming pools and Movie Stars, I had mentioned the two puedo-army officers walking around Hollywood in the late sixties. I knew one was General "Wastemoreland", but at that time I couldn't remember the name of the other. It was General "Hershey Bar".
The site I was looking at:
www.woodstock69.com
Larryj
Diane,
I'd like to hear why you "hate" both Gen. Westmoreland and Gen.Hershey. I presume you knew them both personally.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 19, 2009, 10:50:26 AM
Gen Westmoreland and Gen Lewis Hershey. hated 'em both!!!
Diane,General Hershey served his country through 62 years of service and through 5 Wars, General Westmoreland served his country through 3 wars and 36 years and was highly decorated, how do you hate someone that is that dedicated.
What did you have against General Hershey?
And, what did you think his role was in the Viet Nam War?
I am so impressed with Dianne's account of Woodstock and the sad times surrounding the war in Vietnam. It was one of the best accounts I have ever heard. I was a 20 year old Mom at the time. I heard many stories and watched TV as everyone did; but being a midwestern young mother, it did not occur to me at the time that history was being made. I loved all the musicians and remember most all the songs, but my life was so different at that time.
Only a short time later, when my husband graduated from college and had to wait for the draft lottery in our county, did the war become real and personal to me. Richard's number was 182, and the last number drawn that year was 181. We were so lucky...some were not. By that time, we had friends going to Vietnam.....some did not return.
Thinking back to those times brings tears to my eyes and a lump in my throat. The people at Woodstock started out wanting to just have a little love and peace in the world. Who would have guessed how it turned out! Amazing...........
I was living in Evanston, Illinois the summer of 1969. Didn't pay much attention to Woodstock, it was some big hippie music event happening out East.
I was more involved with the Mets beating the Chicago Cubs for the division title - went to Wrigley Field to watch some games - then the Mets winning the World Series. (I know, that happened after Woodstock, but as all baseball fans know, everything in the news is colored by what your team is doing at the moment. :)) Tom Seaver: God is living in New York and he's a Mets fan.
Landing on the moon was big news. Watched the live coverage and as much news as I could about it. Exciting times.
Northwestern University students were talking about organizing a march on Washington - that became the Peace Moratorium and the My Lai massacre and the bombing of Cambodia were major discussions. I was attending Kendall College, but the entire college (administration, classrooms and dorms ) were on a single city block near Northwestern. Northwestern students had a sit-in at the ROTC building, the National Guard had been called - all that tension was more important than a rock concert.
I knew some people that went; but those aren't my memories. I remember more the anti-war protests, the moon landing and the Mets than Woodstock.
Diane,
How can you say that Westmoreland and Hersey made bad decisions.Were you in the room at the time they decided what to do or did they call an let you know what they were doing? Do really believe they sent those young men to their deaths with out having bad feelings? I am sure they were haunted for the rest of their lives.
Jane
Good points Jane, unfortunately every General in history , including Washington, Lee, Grant to Ike, Patton etc. have had to make those decisions.
It's much easier to determine their decisions by the history of what happened than to try and guess their own personal feelings.
General Hershey, though, never made any combat decisions.
He was head of the Selective Service System and made a controversial draft decision that was struck down by the Supreme Court. That may be what she was so upset about.
Diane,
What lies did Gen Hershey and his cronies tell your Al ? What lose/lose situation did they put him in ? What does Jane's age have to do with her not 'having any idea about the personal issues ? I'm just curious.
You know, Diane was especially asked to share her memories of that time, and shame on all of you for criticising when she does so. Personally I enjoy input from both coasts, and find it fascinating that they both have connections to Elk county. My politics are a result of my life experiences as I expect all of yours are. Doesn't mean they are totally right or totally wrong. But we need to remain respectful, even when opinions do not match our own. And sorry, gutter language is totally uncalled for.
Diane has expressed her opinion and very well. She was asked for her opinion and gave it. So let it go. She was describing the general moods and feelings that were prevalent at that time. If you were draftable (I was) and got drafted (I did) and went overseas much to the dismay of your family (I did, they were), it was a very tough time and a lot of people (hippies, peaceniks, and war protesters)wanted to get their feelings out there. And, the mistreatment of returning American servicemen and women was just plain wrong.
Where Diane is a little misguided is her assessment of the generals. Vietnam was a highly political war. The American government ran the war like a business. Anything to keep the customers (American people) happy and not tick off the Chinese and Russians was more important than actually winning a winnable war. Those Generals had their hands tied in that they had to abide by what Washington wanted them to do. Their big mistake was to not resign in disgust when given the orders they got.
Our American leaders made it a bad war and made bad decisions in trying to appease the American People.
Larryj
Quote from: sixdogsmom on August 19, 2009, 08:55:53 PM
And sorry, Douchebag is totally uncalled for.
Where did this come from? Where did someone write this before? Please let me know. Trying to decide how much to edit here for my son.
Thanks,
David
Would anyone like to provide comments on the fact that the Vietnam War was the first of the "Television Era" and how that affected Americans in a way that war hadn't before.
Charles (born in '68)
I think most of this is good raw data for the history books. The section about peoples feelings and perceptions about a moment in time. Please don't make this a shouting match. Good honest debate will do. Just present your side of the story w/out trying to discredit the other opinions.
Thanks,
David
Charles,
Thanks!
David
Charles, the thing to remember here is that television was just getting started. I was 10 when we got our first TV and it was a 13" B/W in a metal cabinet, much like a microwave looks like, and in SE New Mexico, there were two stations, one in Roswell and one in Carlsbad. The reception was terrible unless you had a really high antenna and the programming was on from about 2PM until 11PM. I say all this because it was only 10 years later that Vietnam actually started. Television had expanded rapidly and there was more national news than before. Still not CNN standards, but on the evening news you could see and hear what was going on in the world. The government and the media were agreed that reporters could go into the war zone and broadcast their reports to the world on television. I think that the impact of actually seeing war on TV as opposed to hearing about it on the radio was a surprise to everyone. I feel this caused more Americans to be against the war and the media picked up on their protest rallies and showed it to all of us. Also, there was the footage of Americans who died being unloaded off of planes which, if you noticed, was not seen during the two Gulf Wars. All those who died in these conflicts were brought home at night and no TV was allowed.
After Vietnam, there were no major conflicts for the reporters to really get into until the first Gulf War. Then, the government allowed reporters to be "embedded" with certain units, but the level of violence and actual war was not shown. What you saw on TV then was stories about the units and a few explosions and maybe some people running around carrying weapons. This was nothing to what you could see on TV during Vietnam.
So the effect? As I said, more people got to see what was actually going on in Vietnam rather than hearing about it and the harsh reality of war was right in front of you every night. And the media also made a big deal of of "body counts" and other attention grabbing statistics. So it became an unpopular war because of the media and the bias that was spread about fighting in a country very few people ever knew about. I seem to remember that stories about Vietnam were always the first news item of the evening.
Larryj
Larry is correct about the media's treatment of the Vietnam War. It was a new experience for Americans to sit down for their evening meal, or breakfast, while watching TV. And on that screen they saw, for the first time in American history, pictures of real warfare, not the Hollywood versions we remember from W.W.II.
TV news also had the pragmatic issue to trying to tell a story in three minutes --- so different from the detailed accounts available when people took the time to read newspaper stories. It's the nature of brevity in storytelling --- you're always going to hit the high points, death counts, blood, gore, mistakes in military and political leadership, rather than telling the basic story of what a particular military company did on a particular day on a particular hill in a country located 10,000 miles from our shores.
The result that I saw from my experience as a newsman in the homeland during that war was feeling that the American people were being fed misinformation by official sources (can you imagine such a concept? Ha).
The unfortunate part of it all was the effect it had on the soldiers, sailers and airmen who fought in Vietnam. I talked to a veteran only yesterday who still suffers from the rejection he and his buddies felt when they came home --- not welcomed in a big armory or airplane hanger by their friends --- but individually, on passenger planes with standby tickets, told to wear their civilian clothes rather than their uniforms, and told to stare straight ahead when confronted by protesters in the airports.
So, along comes Woodstock in the big middle of it all. It drew plenty of protesters but also drew disillusioned Vietnam vets, a gaggle of media hounds, and plenty of kids who arrived "just because it was there." College students do those things, you know.
Diane, I personally appreciate Al's service to this country, and I loved the way you responded to Dr. Whetstone's post. I have always found you to be thoughtful in your opinions and I'm sorry that you often are trashed for simply expressing your thoughts --- a right that Al and all other American Veterans have fought to protect.
i guess I missed something here. Keep seeing where Diane was "trashed" and people being "critical " of her opinion. I see some questions asked of her opinion and why she has these opinions and that's it. I see no disrespect anywhere. The "douchebag" comment wasn't even on this thread, like Charles said. Rudy & Larry, your last posts were right on.
Nice post, Rudy. I think I mentioned sometime back on another thread about the difference between broadcast coverage and print media coverage. As you are working in print media and I spent almost all of my working years in print media, I suppose we are traditionally against broadcast media. In fact, when I hear or see a story on TV given to me in a few seconds or one or two minutes, I try to read about it in the newspaper in order to get the full story.
Interestingly enough, in the last few months, I find myself turning on the TV only for shows that I want to watch and hardly ever for any news. I read my news in the local paper or look, briefly, at the Internet news while signing on the computer.
I am getting older by the minute and don't need the hype from TV news. Old joke: From TV news broadcast: "CAUTION: What you are eating for dinner will kill you. News at 11." I have decided that if the world is in danger, I don't want to know about it so I won't have to worry about it. If the world truly is in danger, I can't stop it.
(NEWSFLASH: THE WORLD WILL BE HIT BY A HUGE METEOR IN 2109) What? A hundred years from now? Why tell me this now? It's not like I am going to be here for it.
Woodstock was a big music concert and that is what it was supposed to be. A "be-in" The fact that there were anti-war protesters there "a sit-in" was picked up by the media and probably hyped more than it should have been. "Sex, drugs and rock and roll" sounded a whole more enticing than taking two years of your life to fight a war.
Rambling again.
Larryj
Diane, just keep this in mind----------------"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful." ;D
I think that there are those on this forum who are too young to know what it was like then and can't imagine the way things were. Why they choose to pick on you remains a mystery, tho, because I and others have stated pretty much the same opinions and thoughts that you did. So, hence, see above statement and please keep posting because unlike others I want to hear what you think.
Larry (#2 fan, Al is #1 fan)
Diane, I do not understand why some people can express their opinion and it is accepted an other's opinions are rejected. I, for one, value your opinions and information, so, please, keep posting. I will read yours while some of the others I have stopped reading.
Sorry for any confusion I caused, and Dave, I am sorry that you will need to think about editing what your son learns here. I logged off rather early because of the storm last night, we have been getting some ferocious lightening. Kinda like on the forum, Lol! The Woodstock era were troubled times for certain; social mores' were changing especially with the advent of birth control pills. That changed a lot of things as did the death of the Hays office in the movies. The entire nation was in a process of change, morphing from the national fear experienced during the Great Depression years and WWII. The universitys were full up with folks there not to be educated, but to avoid the draft. We lost our innocence, we had lost a president to an assasins' bullets, and we learned that other nations leaders around the world had been assacinated by our own CIA. No wonder the young people rebelled, and the nation is probably fortunate that it only displayed the rebellion with sex, drugs and rock & roll. A few went too far, Abby Hoffman and his group, and of course Californias' own Charlie Manson. BTW, I hear that Squeaky Fromm was just released from jail. Some of the events I have named occured before and after Woodstock, but are all part of the social atmosphere of the times. This was not the favorite time of my life.
Diane, you should have never deleted those paragraphs as you could probally gone from an A to A+. You just might have to e-mail me the rest of the story. And how is your weather back there?
Thanks for the weather report and I completely understand what you are saying on the other subject.
Get back to the topic at hand and enough of the" poor me" whining jag... (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/violin.gif)
Or I will edit it for David myself!
jeese........... ::)
David; I thought I saw a commercial on TV for either a new show or mini-series about the "farmer" and town where Woodstock took place. One of the excerpts was "do you think anyone will come?" Ha! Little did they know!
OH... after a quick serch on the internet... a new movie coming out August 28th... Taking Woodstock. Here's the website:
http://www.filminfocus.com/focusfeatures/film/taking_woodstock/
I can't find a rating, sorry. I also have no idea how "fictional" this movie is. Looks like it's from the point of veiw of the people putting it on and the people in the area who lived there.
The emotions expressed here run the gamut - and that's also what I remember from the era.
You were either for it (Woodstock, hippies) or you were against it.
The middle-of-the roaders just didn't understand what was going on in either direction.
I grew up in small-town Iowa - very similar to small-town Kansas. Then I moved to Chicago and suburbs, a totally different world.
Even though I attended a small Methodist college, and felt very sheltered there, I was still in the big city, the VERY BIG city, and next to Northwestern. The hippies, the peace-niks, the Love Generation were more visible. I was entranced. This was NOT Iowa.
There were some days, and weeks, when the tension in the town (Evanston) was thick. What hippie rock star was going to give a concert at Northwestern, would all the long-hair freaks be there? Students took over the ROTC building - were they going to do it again, with another building? Was the National Guard really going to march onto the campus?
I was a spectator for a lot of it (got more involved in 1970), didin't comprehend what was really going on until years later.
And then I would go to Wrigley Field, watch the Cubs and the Mets, or the Cubs and anyone, and I'd be in a whole 'nother world. Life was safe, life was good, everyone got along. No age discrimination, no judging on looks. It was baseball.
And the moon landing. That was magical. Would they make it, did they have enough fuel, would the suits explode in no atmosphere, would they sink into the sand and dust? Woodstock wasn't considered that important at the time. Big festival, big mess, but it wasn't part of my world.
People were bewildered by all that was going on - or they had strong opinions.
Mom 490 ;),
You nailed it. A very emotional time, as I have been told. And that is why Tim will get to read this entire thread. It will help me illustrate to him just how emotional and divisive a time it was. I will edit one or two words. Don't need that headache right now (explaining those words). The kid catches on to way too much as it is.
David
David -
It's obvious I didn't do much of the Woodstock thing, but Tim can ask questions any time he wants.
Dave, I edited the posting with the objectionable word, now if Charlie wants to edit his, there should be no further problem. Too bad that the receivers must make the amends when it was a forward pass that did the damage. I expect that this thread will probably bore the kid to death anyway, but you never know. Good luck on explaining the times and what was the result of those times. I don't think anyone mentioned Dr. Martin Luther King and his movement. That most certainly had a large influence even though it started way before Woodstock. Civil disobedience was not new, and was copied from the movement started by Ghandi in India, looking for freedom from rule by the British. Sound familiar? I guess what goes around comes around. Now I am beginning to sound like Pam.
David,
I just deleted my response to your question, now if you delete the original question, I think you'll be good to go.
Charles
Well, here I am at the end of quite a discussion. I feel kinda like Zsa Zsa Gabor's 5th husband on the eve of their wedding: I know what I want to do, but not sure how to keep it interesting.
I was in VietNam during tet of '68 as a dog handler. It wasn't fun, but I had it much better than some others I know. I don't really think the people at Woodstock were just wanting a little peace and love, I think they just wanted a big party with a few joints and a few hits of acid. They got the big party! Our military leaders did the best job they could do under the circumstances. From Generals down to Sergeants bear the consequences of their decisions and some of those consequences haunt them to this day. I knew about the SDS and knew people who were in it. I felt it was communist inspired and based and so did a lot of students who refused to have anything to do with it. If there had been embedded reporters with television cameras during WW II we would have lost. War is not for civilian eyes; it is to be fought by soldiers, marines, airman, seamen and coast guardsmen. It is to be fought to WIN!!!
Why did the "hippies" burn their draft cards? Because they were against the war? No, because the were afraid to fight, because they were afraid to be committed to anything, including a job, that would interfere with their "finding themselves". No civilian has the knowledge or right to criticize a military leader, because a civilian is not privy to the information that is available to that military leader. Even myself and jarhead could not, in all honesty, criticize our leaders because we did not know what they knew. As troops always do, we bitched about whoever was in charge and about what we were ordered to do, but we did it even though we didn't like it and knew at the time that we may become a statistic. Is there anyone who hates war more than those that are called to fight it? I don't think so, but without it we wouldn't be free now. I won't write anymore or I'll just keep going. Semper fi Jarhead!
Well said Sarge, it takes someone that was there to put it in words the way you have. I lost a very close friend in Nam and everytime I see news report with pictures of that time I always watch to see if I might catch him in the picture.
Jane
Excellant post Sarge. You hit the nail on the head about the war protestors. When congress ended the draft in 1972, anti war protests almost ceased entirely so it seems as though it was never about "peace".
Semper Fidelis to you too Sarge and may Shep RIP.
Here I sit with tears in my eyes, remembering how we worried about you, so far away from all that loved you. First and foremost I love you dearly, Sarge, and love you too JarHead. I wondered when you were going to come on to this "confused out of control" thread and print words of truth that you two know so well.
We worried about you and all the others that were there fighting to keep us safe. Fred and his brother Donald both served in WW 11,
and you and your brother Bob served 20 and 30 years. Ron I don't know how long you served, but will include you in this also. We are VERY proud of you for your sacrifices and Thank you again.
Much love,
Auntie
Thank you Jo for the kind words. Lets see,I became a Marine in 1968 and "Once a Marine--Always a Marine" so I guess I've been a Marine for 41 years. You would think that after that many years I would have rose above the rank of Sgt.:) Vietnam was a trying time but I wouldn't have missed it for the world. It had to be rough on my mother as my oldest brother was there first, then I went over before he rotated home, then Steve signed a waiver and came over before I left. Gave our Mother a double dose for quite a spell.The worst part was I was married and my first child was born while I was there.
Oh yea, I was only an active duty Marine for two years. That's all Uncle Sam needed an ol grunt like me.
Did Fred or Don serve in the Pacific near Uncle Bill T. ?
No,Fred said they weren't. They were both in the Navy and in the Pacific. but not close to Bill. Your Mama had her full share of "heart worries" that is for sure.
Jo
Quote from: Jo McDonald on August 21, 2009, 09:54:47 AM
this "confused out of control" thread
This thread was started by a well repected member of the Elk County community, married into a family that has been here since the 1870's.
He wanted to get real, honest, heart-felt commentary about the time period in which Woodstock occurred so he could share that with his 9 year old son. To say it is confused and out of control, simply because there are viewpoints of those who did not serve, is uncalled for.
I respect that your family had members in harm's way. I have no greater repect than that for men and women who put their lives on the line to protect our freedoms. And I don't think there is any greater freedom in this country than the right to think the way you want to, to express your own personal point of view, and to accept that not everyone is going to share that view.
Charles
Did I say, that anyone said "anything that wasn't true" ???? Heeellllooooo....I do not think those was my words!!!!!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 21, 2009, 10:37:55 AM
but I'd love to hear your honest opinion.
Certainly! I knew we were fighting to protect the sovereignty of the Republic of Vietnam. The big picture was to control the spread of communism throughout SE Asia. We succeeded in that. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who live in these countries who won the war in Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism. The United States did not lose that war. We won every major battle during the conflict. When we turned combat operations over to the Republic of Vietnam is when the tide turned and the war was lost. I enlisted in '66 and spent from Nov '67 to Nov '68 over there.
Wow!
David
Dr. Whetstone: Thanks for using the forum for a great purpose --- to provide some historical information to your son.
During the summer of Woodstock I was 8 ½ years old and lived in Prarie Village, Kansas.. (I think I was still counting halves). I was unaware of Woodstock at the time It would be 10 years before I started to listen to the music from that era. The music from the 60's is now my favorite. I was aware of the Vietnam War. I was aware that I had cousins that were fighting in Vietnam. Two of them would be killed or injured during the war. I saw the graphic pictures and heard the body count on the news every night. In hindsight I tend to think that that was something an 8 year old should not have seen, but I am glad that I did. During that summer I had gone on some Cub Scout camp outs and played in Little League. Very close to the actual date of Woodstock I was visiting family in Howard and Wichita. During that visit I learned to skateboard. I also, spent some time running trot lines for flatheads on the Elk River. I'd also like to give you some information on a group that was just starting out then and would become very popular among kids of my age. During the 70's many of us wore POW\MIA bracelets in honor of Vietnam prisoners of war and those soldiers that were missing in action. Here is some information.
History of the POW/MIA Bracelets
by Carol Bates Brown
Over the years, people have contacted the League looking for information on the history and background of the POW/MIA bracelets, originated and worn extensively in the 1970s, and continuously since by POW/MIA family members, veterans and other interested Americans. The following historical information was written by Carol Bates Brown, one of the originators.
I was the National Chairman of the POW/MIA Bracelet Campaign for VIVA (Voices In Vital America), the Los Angeles based student organization that produced and distributed the bracelets during the Vietnam War. Entertainers Bob Hope and Martha Raye served with me as honorary co-chairmen.
The idea for the bracelets was started by a fellow college student, Kay Hunter, and me, as a way to remember American prisoners of war suffering in captivity in Southeast Asia. In late 1969 television personality Bob Dornan (who several years later was elected to the US Congress) introduced us and several other members of VIVA to three wives of missing pilots. They thought our student group could assist them in drawing public attention to the prisoners and missing in Vietnam. The idea of circulating petitions and letters to Hanoi demanding humane treatment for the POWs was appealing, as we were looking for ways college students could become involved in positive programs to support US soldiers without becoming embroiled in the controversy of the war itself. The relatives of the men were beginning to organize locally, but the National League of POW/MIA Families had yet to be formed.
During that time Bob Dornan wore a bracelet he had obtained in Vietnam from hill tribesmen, which he said always reminded him of the suffering the war had brought to so many. We wanted to get similar bracelets to wear to remember US POWs, so rather naively, we tried to figure out a way to go to Vietnam. Since no one wanted to fund two sorority-girl types on a tour to Vietnam during the height of the war, and our parents were livid at the idea, we gave up and Kay Hunter began to check out ways to make bracelets. Soon other activities drew her attention and she dropped out of VIVA, leaving me, another student Steve Frank, and our adult advisor, Gloria Coppin, to pursue the POW/MIA awareness program.
The major problem was that VIVA had no money to make bracelets, although our advisor was able to find a small shop in Santa Monica that did engraving on silver used to decorate horses. The owner agreed to make 10 sample bracelets. I can remember us sitting around in Gloria Coppin's kitchen with the engraver on the telephone, as we tried to figure out what we would put on the bracelets. This is why they carried only name, rank and date of loss, since we didn't have time to think of anything else.
Armed with the sample bracelets, we set out to find someone who would donate money to make bracelets for distribution to college students. It had not yet occurred to us that adults would want to wear the things, as they weren't very attractive. Several approaches to Ross Perot were rebuffed, to include a proposal that he loan us $10,000 at 10% interest. We even visited Howard Hughes' senior aides in Las Vegas. They were sympathetic but not willing to help fund our project. Finally in the late summer of 1970, Gloria Coppin's husband donated enough brass and copper to make 1,200 bracelets. The Santa Monica engraver agreed to make them and we could pay him from any proceeds we might realize.
Although the initial bracelets were going to cost about 75 cents to make, we were unsure about how much we should ask people to donate to receive a bracelet. In 1970, a student admission to the local movie theater was $2.50. We decided this seemed like a fair price to ask from a student for one of the nickel-plated bracelets. We also made copper ones for adults who believed they helped their "tennis elbow." Again, according to our logic adults could pay more, so we would request $3.00 for the copper bracelets.
At the suggestion of local POW/MIA relatives, we attended the National League of Families annual meeting in Washington, DC in late September. We were amazed at the interest of the wives and parents in having their man's name put on bracelets and in obtaining them for distribution. Bob Dornan, who was always a champion of the POW/MIAs and their families, continued to publicize the issue on his Los Angeles television talk show and promoted the bracelets.
On Veterans Day, November 11, 1970, we officially kicked off the bracelet program with a news conference at the Universal Sheraton Hotel. Public response quickly grew and we eventually got to the point we were receiving over 12,000 requests a day. This also brought money in to pay for brochures, bumper stickers, buttons, advertising and whatever else we could do to publicize the POW/MIA issue. We formed a close alliance with the relatives of missing men - they got bracelets from us on consignment and could keep some of the money they raised to fund their local organizations. We also tried to furnish these groups with all the stickers and other literature they could give away.
While Steve Frank and I ended up dropping out of college to work for VIVA full time to administer the bracelet and other POW/MIA programs, none of us got rich off the bracelets. VIVA's adult advisory group, headed by Gloria Coppin, was adamant that we would not have a highly paid professional staff. As I recall the highest salary was $15,000, a year and we were able to keep administrative costs to less that 20 percent of income.
In all, VIVA distributed nearly five million bracelets and raised enough money to produce untold millions of bumper stickers, buttons, brochures, matchbooks, newspaper ads, etc., to draw attention to the missing men. In 1976, VIVA closed its doors. By then the American public was tired of hearing about Vietnam and showed no interest in the POW/MIA issue.
Here is a current list of unaccounted for Vietnam POW\MIA soldiers for Kansas.
http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmsea/unaccounted/pmsea_una_p_ks.pdf
David Alexander
I have one of those bracelets--------somewhere. :-\