....No thanks. I'll take freedom and personal responsibility.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=98888
Now that was a nicely written article. It's a little simplistic, but OK. If we had a one payer system it would be so big it could have some clout and perhaps negotiate better terms. If I had to buy Medicare Part B right now it would cost much less than private insurance would for me. I don't know much about Medicaid. Some insurance companies have left states because they didn't like the terms that some states wanted, and left people scrambling to find any coverage for themselves. We had several choices in coverage and were able to find a good fit. I don't know what comes next. There will be a lot more discussion on this subject. I'd rather they work on this than waste so much time and effort on the Gitmo thing.
The answer is a simple one really. It is not the gov'ts job to provide medical coverage to people. Nor is it the responsibilty of taxpayers to pay for others that don't have it.
Very well said Billy.
It's simply not the responsibility or any of business of the Fed's to be
involved whatsoever.
And how are you two paying your medical expenses and how do you expect to pay them when you are 80 years old and requiring a whole lot more medical care? How about major surgery one year, then 3 years later more major surgery, then 3 years later more major surgery, then bladder cancer, then melanoma? Are you going to have the resources to take care of all that without some kind of insurance?
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 23, 2009, 09:46:18 AM
The answer is a simple one really. It is not the gov'ts job to provide medical coverage to people. Nor is it the responsibilty of taxpayers to pay for others that don't have it.
On medicaid i agree. On medicare i don't. You have how many generations that have paid for medicare premiums? Secondly medicare isn't free. I pay 130 a month plus copays of 20% to get medical care. So thats not the same. IT is a insurance plan.
Medicaid and schip is govt healthcare.
Quote from: Wilma on May 23, 2009, 10:23:43 AM
And how are you two paying your medical expenses and how do you expect to pay them when you are 80 years old and requiring a whole lot more medical care? How about major surgery one year, then 3 years later more major surgery, then 3 years later more major surgery, then bladder cancer, then melanoma? Are you going to have the resources to take care of all that without some kind of insurance?
With the insurance plus a little copay I take care of my medical expenses now. I have a savings plan for when I get older. Frankly, I wouldn't go through all that. I believe in quality of life over quanity. I don't expect other people to pay for me, nor do I want them to. When money is taken without permission, that is theft.
So when you get old you're going to ship out on an ice flow? ;D Your kids will be grown by then and might not want you to do that. Would it be OK with you if your insurer suddenly tripled your premium and copay just because they wanted more profit? I really do wish you and your family eternal good health, but I think you may be a bit naive.
Diane-
Naive? And do you believe that socialism is acceptable in this country?
By the way, how much more stuff do you think the Fed's ought to be paying to
and for the corporations and American citizens? Is it OK by you for the Fed's to
take from one who has money and give it to another?
Billy, be sure you save a lot. Maybe Medicare won't be available when you get to that age. Save a lot as I had two operations last year, one for colon cancer and one for arterial bypass in my leg. What with my wife's insurance covering me and my medicare I paid less than a thousand dollars for little incidentals such as copays, etc. I get a little note from the insurance company every three months telling me what they paid for. Those two operations plus the hospital stay and medications was just over $100,000. That will pretty much wipe out a savings account. So save a lot. And don't forget that was just for me. My wife also had her problems which would add to the list of things to pay for.
Larryj
Red, you already played that record.
My husband had a heart attack 6 months before he turned 65. We had to depend on his plant's insurance to pay the medical bills and still had to pay around $4000.00 out of pocket. After he was old enough for Medicare and a supplement insurance, we have had to pay nothing except his prescriptions. Are you going to be able to stay healthy after you reach 65 or even until you reach 65?
What are your medical insurance premiums now? I am paying out more than $300.00 a month just for medical insurance. I wish the government would do something about the high cost of medical insurance. Medicare Part A doesn't take care of everything and to have Part B, it costs extra. Then you need a supplement insurance to cover what Medicare doesn't cover. It is costly, but not as costly as a stay in the hospital would be. I can't tell you what my own heart attack and surgery came to, but I didn't have to pay anything out of pocket.
If medical insurance were cheap enough, more people could afford it and fewer people would have to depend on the state for medical aid, thus using fewer of our tax dollars.
My own personal belief is that my death already has a time, place, and circumstance that is out of my hands. Yes, I have a good chunk of savings but it is for small time things, broken bones whatever. I am not going to depend on it to save my life. I witnessed all four of my grandparents dying from cancer of one form or another. All four racked up huge medical debts. All four died regardless. So in the end it doesn't really matter how much coverage you have. The only difference it makes is how long you can suffer. My grandfather was a very robust active man. Once his cancer took hold he wasted away to under 100 pounds, couldn't walk from his kitchen table to his living room without gasping for breath, had to have somone in the bathroom with him. If that is what coverage buys, you can keep it. Again, I will take quality over quanity anyday. And since my family loves me, they are not going to want to see me live like that.
So how much of my money should the gov't take? 10, 40, 80 percent? How much is enough...
Well said, Billy.
Gov't or the citizens do not owe us anything.
Don't want to pay taxes................GET OUT!
That's all right for yourself, Billy, but what about your family? Don't they have a say in this? Are they so healthy that they will never need medical care? Do you have enough savings to get a child through a bout of cancer?
greatguns, I have said many times that I don't mind paying taxes, so long as it is fair and not wasted. And if you don't mind paying taxes that are excessive and wasted then move to a socialist or communist country, instead of trying to turn America into one.
Wilma, once again, if my family or myself needs medical care then I will pay for it.
So are you saying if it doesn't fit your personal need that it is unfair and not needed. I don't deem it necessary to move just because I have an opinion that isn't yours. I certainly would not want to give up that freedom. Constructive criticism is a good thing. May the Lord bless you on this beautiful day.
Billy, do you have the hundreds of thousands of dollars it would take to get a child through what Brody Hurt had to go through? If you don't, just how are you planning to pay the costs?
Billy, who decides what is "fair." What might be essential to you might be waste to me.
Quote from: greatguns on May 24, 2009, 06:51:40 AM
Don't want to pay taxes................GET OUT!
Quote from: greatguns on May 24, 2009, 09:41:02 AM
So are you saying if it doesn't fit your personal need that it is unfair and not needed. I don't deem it necessary to move just because I have an opinion that isn't yours. I certainly would not want to give up that freedom. Constructive criticism is a good thing. May the Lord bless you on this beautiful day.
So, which one is it? Apparently, if someone has a different opinion than YOU, they should leave.
Quote from: Wilma on May 24, 2009, 11:14:12 AM
Billy, do you have the hundreds of thousands of dollars it would take to get a child through what Brody Hurt had to go through? If you don't, just how are you planning to pay the costs?
I am not going to put my child through all that just to see them die anyway.
I really don't care if you leave, stay, pay taxes, put people down, or just bellyache and tell everyone what is wrong with them and believe your way is perfect.
So you would just let the child die without knowing whether or not he could be saved?
guns, If I see something wrong with this country I am going to say something about it. I have earned that right. More so than some.
Wilma, if my child has a terminal illness, that there is no cure for, I am not going to put them through a bunch of chemo therapy or whatever that in the end isn't going to do a damn bit of good. I will make them as comfortable as possible and let God work his own course.
But how will you know if a cure won't work unless it is tried?
I am glad you have that right. More than some? Some gave all and I hoped everyone takes time to remember tomorrow.
Billy, are you assuming all kids with childhood cancers "die anyway." Who decides when something is terminal? That is rarely known at the time of diagnosis. Does your wife know you feel that way? I saw several family members through cancer and not one ever said "I wish I could just die." If they had, well....I guess you must believe in euthanasia. I do too in some cases, but not for kids. I thought Brody was very brave and his family gave him every chance they could. He fought a great battle and I have no doubt they would have fought more if they all thought it would have helped. That's really between the patient, the family and the Doctors. But that's not my business, ever, except to pray for them. Billy,you do know your opinion is just that, an opinion, not fact. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but nobody should parade opinion as fact, me either. I do agree with you on some things. Now, when you said "I have earned that right, more so than some," just what did you mean?
More than some?
Every person has an equal right to express their point of view and have earned that right accordingly, not some more than others.
For the life of me, I don't understand WHY everything Billy says has to be picked to pieces by the rest of you. Why do any of you think it is any business of yours how he feels about his family's welfare -- his ability to pay for and take care of his medical bills - and his knowledge of what is his and his family's belief of how they handle their own crisis that come up in their lives is any of your business?
My word --- doesn't he have any right to his own beliefs? Is his financial status any of your business ? If he can pay for all the things that come up and is not asking any of you to chip in and help pay, then you should not even be concerned about how he is going to manage it. This topic has gotten completely out of hand and waaaayyyyy to personal. How about if all of you just mind your own business and let him mind his and then come up with something else to fuss about?
I am out of here -- this just irks me to no end!!!
You're right!
Quote from: Jo McDonald on May 24, 2009, 09:13:13 PM
For the life of me, I don't understand WHY everything Billy says has to be picked to pieces by the rest of you. Why do any of you think it is any business of yours how he feels about his family's welfare -- his ability to pay for and take care of his medical bills - and his knowledge of what is his and his family's belief of how they handle their own crisis that come up in their lives is any of your business?
My word --- doesn't he have any right to his own beliefs? Is his financial status any of your business ? If he can pay for all the things that come up and is not asking any of you to chip in and help pay, then you should not even be concerned about how he is going to manage it. This topic has gotten completely out of hand and waaaayyyyy to personal. How about if all of you just mind your own business and let him mind his and then come up with something else to fuss about?
I am out of here -- this just irks me to no end!!!
Interesting.... it is acceptable for him to pick to pieces other's posts and respond in an arrogant and offensive fashion and yet, when some debate the finer points of his posts, it is unacceptable.
Jerry, I have served my country and made the sacrifices necessary to ensure freedom in this country. I have lost time with my family that I can never get back. My sons first christmas, my 2nd sons birthday. I have shed blood, sweat, and many tears. Only to come home and witness those freedoms being either taken or abused. I have paid the price for my freedom, what have you done???
And by the way, when I first came to this fourm I was polite and civil. For the most part so were the folks on here. However, once the "newness" wore off I was made the butt of jokes, my honesty was questioned, and made out to be some arrogant, naive, consipracy nut. Very few said anything about that (for those that did Tersea, Jo, Hillbilly, Sarge, and Red I thank you) But when I "fight back" I am made out to be the bad guy. I didn't get personal with anyone until they did so with me. Why is it okay for them to do so and not me???
When was I ever rude to you? We had some pretty good discussions before my computer crashed...I come back and you are all commando and start callin me some liberal kumbyya singin hippie kind of bull.
It's like a big black cloud of negativity to read some of your post dude. I'm not apologizin for tellin you to kiss my butt, rare back and growl at me I'm gonna growl back.
Pam, I didn't start "growling" until I was backed into a corner and accused of seeing a conspiracy in everything, or told that my mindset is whats wrong with this country.
I believe..........I said that AFTER you called me kumbyya singin left wing liberal hippie dude.
Billy, please don't start with "my sacrifice was greater than yours." Those things can't be easily be measured. Any of us who were separated from loved ones in the military know what that is like. Your sacrifice was honorable, but you did come home. I think everybody knows someone who did not. Being Viet Nam era I lost friends, had friends whose marriages failed, and who came home emotionally destroyed. Many also had physical wounds that changed them forever, just like now. WWII was the same. I do very much appreciate your service, as I do anyone who has ever served. May I ask about your military service? No tricks, I am interested. When, where and all that. My Al ended up at Fort Sill , Ok. Field artillery. "The steel behind the rock" (The Army ruined his legs, but that's another story.) I enjoy bantering with you, but I am not a name caller and don't cuss. I try not to be rude, it's just not my style. If you think I'm being rude, you say so. I can't make my point if it gets lost in hurting someone's feelings.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 25, 2009, 09:54:33 AM
Billy, please don't start with "my sacrifice was greater than yours." Those things can't be easily be measured.
Billy.. Your sacrifice HAS BEEN greater than mine...
Thanks for that.
Teresa, that was very nice to say to Billy...He was talking to Jerry, who I don't know. Jerry could have lost friends and family or have been injured himself for all I know. I just don't like to see that start, or we'll be putting a value on pain and suffering and that's not fair to anybody. Just my personal opinion, not meant to be a put down to Billy, but he did ask the question of Jerry.
I realize that Diane.. I can read and interpret.
And I don't just say things to "be nice"... I said it to Billy because it is the truth..
And I actually was replying to your comment.. not Billy's to Jerry's.. ( of which I happen to know both these people)
Sorry, bye now.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 25, 2009, 09:54:33 AM
Billy, please don't start with "my sacrifice was greater than yours." Those things can't be easily be measured. Any of us who were separated from loved ones in the military know what that is like. Your sacrifice was honorable, but you did come home. I think everybody knows someone who did not. Being Viet Nam era I lost friends, had friends whose marriages failed, and who came home emotionally destroyed. Many also had physical wounds that changed them forever, just like now. WWII was the same. I do very much appreciate your service, as I do anyone who has ever served. May I ask about your military service? No tricks, I am interested. When, where and all that. My Al ended up at Fort Sill , Ok. Field artillery. "The steel behind the rock" (The Army ruined his legs, but that's another story.) I enjoy bantering with you, but I am not a name caller and don't cuss. I try not to be rude, it's just not my style. If you think I'm being rude, you say so. I can't make my point if it gets lost in hurting someone's feelings.
Diane, I didn't reply to this post right away because frankly, I was to angry. I've calmed down now.
You stated that "any of us who were separated from loved ones in the military know what that is like." Diane, you may know what it is like for the wives, but you have no clue what it is like for the soldiers. No matter how much it is explained or described, words will not come close to doing it justice.
I wasn't going to say anything but I really do like you, so I will. I wasn't comparing you to me. I was responding to the question you asked Jerry. I didn't want to see an argument between you two. I've seen a couple of friends almost come to blows over that very question. No, I can't begin to imagine going into combat. I do know about going into fire, at least it doesn't shoot back...most of the time. But things do blow up and fall down, floors give way and so on. It isn't the same of course but it has its moments. Not me, but fire fighters and EMTs do get shot at and beat up and run down. I've been very lucky. Now I'll be quiet and just listen. I have enjoyed political banter with you, but now that's over.
Oh hell Diane don't let em run you off, you've made some pretty good contributions that made ME think about a few things!
I am a father of 3 men in the service. Josh is overseas somewhere and i don't know where he is and i haven't heard from him in almost 2 years. He's alive and safe that is all i know but his job prevents me from knowing anything about him. While i have been shot at before here in this country, i do know the fear of that, i do not know the horror or fear or terror of war. I thank God, my son and you billy and every serviceman for that!
But
I do know the fear and horror of not knowing where my son is, while he is defending us. I do know the fear of knowing my youngest son was hit by a mortar and was given his purple heart this year. Thank GOD he didn't suffer any loss of limbs or such. His back is injured and he is going through therapy for that.
I do believe that sacrifices are made on all parts. The sacrifice of the families, the sacrifice of the men in harms way, and I DO believe that some sacrifice more than others. Just take a goood look at arlington national cemetary and you will see those who sacrificed all.
The point of my post is this, life is too damn short to be fighting over who sacrificed the most. Billy you did a lot for us. Thankyou! Just the fact that you served is enough for me to cause me to hold you in the highest esteem. If it weren't for folks like you, we would be bowing to the east and praying to allah long ago or we would be a part of the USSR or any number of worse things.
Firemen, police, all folks that choose to be in service to their fellow man all sacrifice just as much at times. But thankfully God has seen fit to bring most of these men and women home every night to their families.
Some don't. they paid the ulitimate price, sacrificed the most and never asked once for any recognition nor pity. THey just did what they needed to do to make a difference in their lives and others.
So how about lets try to not go away with feelings hurt over this. Youknow a old saying that i remember hearing growing up.
Will it really matter in a 100 years, 1000 years?? IF not then its not important
Quote from: jerry wagner on May 24, 2009, 08:49:33 PM
More than some?
Every person has an equal right to express their point of view and have earned that right accordingly, not some more than others.
Srkuzich, Diane and everybody else. Let me clarify. My post on page four was in response to a comment jerry made, as seen above. The point of my "sacriface" post was to illustrate the fact that not Everyone has Earned that right, It was Earned by a Few, and Given to all. That is what I wanted to point out with my "more than some" comment.
Please clarify how some have earned that right more than others.
by fighting and dying for it.
So you have more right than I have just simply because you were able to go fight? Not everyone has the ability to do that even though they would if they could. And because they couldn't, they don't have the same amount of "right" as you have? Because I am a woman and when I was of the right age, women were not generally accepted into the military and if they were, they were not allowed to fight. And that gives you more "right" than I have? There are those who were physically unable to go and fight and that gives you more "right" than it does them? I don't think so. When you leave your wife and small children, not by choice but because it is the law and knowing that you will be going into combat as soon as you can finish boot training, without any idea of when you will be able to go home, then come back and tell me that you have more rights than some other people.
Good job Wilma! :D
Actually wilma The comment was that Everyone has earned the right to express their views. That is not true. No one has earned the right to begin with. That right is a inalienable right. That right as expressed by the Constitution states that it is along with other rights one that is given by our creator! Not by man. So first of all NO ONE has earned that right. It is a right that is Given to us.
As far as billy and anyone who has served, they have secured that right for us through vigilence and sacrifice. You see, while we are given that right as well as the others, that right can be taken away by man. It costs some of us their lives to secure for all of us but no one has earned any rights we have. Now the warriors that have died and sacrificed have earned our respect and devotion for their sacrifices. They have paid a price. it is worthy of special recognition in that not all of us are able or willing to go and do that. But not everyone is called to defend or serve either.
None of us deserve anything we have. We only have what we have by the Grace of God. And it is by his Grace that we live in THIS country and not iran, or iraq, or n. korea, or pakistan.
Quote from: Wilma on May 27, 2009, 09:08:30 PM
When you leave your wife and small children, not by choice but because it is the law and knowing that you will be going into combat as soon as you can finish boot training, without any idea of when you will be able to go home, then come back and tell me that you have more rights than some other people.
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 27, 2009, 08:21:53 PM
by fighting and dying for it.
I guess I should've said, "by serving their country"
Wilma, EVERYONE has a choice. Those who were drafted made the CHOICE to follow that law instead of fighting to have it changed.
By the Way, there have been women in the military throughout history. They may not have been on the front lines but they have served, and not a single one of them were drafted. Their "sacriface" is just as noble as those who didn't return.
Who is to define "serving their country"? Isn't living a good honest life, raising your children to believe in God and their country, not causing trouble, paying your bills, working for what you have, etc., just as laudable as "serving their country"?
Billy, I appreciate that you took the time from your life to serve your country. I do not have the personal experience of facing death, but I knew a lot of young men who did. You get to know a lot of young men when you live as long as I have. Serving your country is only a small part of being a hero. The hero part comes in with what you do with the rest of it. Being a hero to your wife and kids might just be the best thing that could ever happen to you. When or if you get to be my age, you will appreciate what your kids think of you. Everybody else will have forgotten.
Quote from: Wilma on May 28, 2009, 07:41:29 AM
Who is to define "serving their country"? Isn't living a good honest life, raising your children to believe in God and their country, not causing trouble, paying your bills, working for what you have, etc., just as laudable as "serving their country"?
I wouldn't call that "serving your country", I would call that just being a good citizen.
What do you call serving your country?
Quote from: Wilma on May 29, 2009, 07:02:47 AM
What do you call serving your country?
Thats pretty easy to define. Look at arlington national cemetary. Look to 2,000,000 people that go and take up arms to defend us. These folks jump in front of harms way for the nation as a whole. Firemen, police, other folks like that serve the local community not the nation as a whole.
One thing that has happened in recent years, we have managed to take certain words, ect Hero, Patriot, sacrifice and watered it down. We try to fit those terms to anyone that stands up and does something.
Certainly those that ran into the tower to rescue those were heros but they were doing their jobs too.
The men and women that stand up in combat in our national defence are heros, patriots, but they are doing their jobs too. I think of hero, patriot ect as one who goes way beyond their job description, way beyond any reasonable human response. It is those individuals that run towards death and does battle with death in defence of his brother that is the hero in my eyes.
The rest of us that do good, are good citizens, help others, are doing what should be expected of everyone. Why is it that when someone does what is right, it is reguarded as unusual and we have to attach a label of hero or something like that to something that everyone should do as a everyday thing.
Personally i just would rather leave the hero/patriot labels to be given to EXCEPTIONAL things people do.
Srkuzich, I think that in a way you are right. But "hero" is a label that, I think, is applied on a personal level. Meaning that the definition changes according to who you ask. One persons hero may not be anothers.
Wilma, to me serving your country is defined as military service.
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 29, 2009, 07:48:56 AM
Srkuzich, I think that in a way you are right. But "hero" is a label that, I think, is applied on a personal level. Meaning that the definition changes according to who you ask. One persons hero may not be anothers.
Wilma, to me serving your country is defined as military service.
Yeah you are right you know :) I look at my sons as heros in my own personal way, they do something that makes me proud and something that i cannot do, but i do recognize that there are others that do much more than they do in the service to their country. :)
I agree that service to ones country is miltary service. It is a special calling.
EVERYONE has a choice. Those who were drafted made the CHOICE to follow that law instead of fighting to have it changed.
Sorry, Billy, that is not how it was. When I was drafted I didn't have a choice. Whoops, I'm sorry. I did have a choice. Show up for the army or go to jail. Some choice. For the friends of mine who died in Vietnam the choice of jail for two years would have been a good thing. All of us whether drafted or enlisted "served our country". Back in the sixties, JFK said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". Okay, we asked and we got our answer. Give up two years of your life and not see your family for months at a time and they (family) are trying real hard to survive on the lower wages you are earning while "serving your country". The rewards, should you survive, will be a G.I. bill that well enable you to buy a house, or get a better education, etc. Should you not survive "serving your country" we, the government, will bury you with honors and give your survivors this really nice American flag.
As for fighting for change, at that time an average of 300 to 400 people were dying each day in an obscure little Asian country that we had no real right to be in. Our country, or I should say, our government was not in a real good mood for trying to change anything about the draft. This era was probably the first time that there were any real war protesters in large numbers and the results of their protests did not affect the American government, but did cast a cloud of shame on those who came home from that war. While I love my country, if I would have had the CHOICE I would not have gone for I could see no potential threat from this Asian country to attack us.
Larryj
Larry, what about the choice to actually fight, not just protest? You don't have to be in the military to fight for freedom.
As for Vietnam and our being there, I agree with you.
I'm sorry, but I didn't follow your comment. Were you saying actually fighting as in being in the military or are you saying fight to change the draft law? We were in Vietnam fighting for their freedom, not ours. Just like in Iraq, we are there to provide freedom for someone, not us. In getting back to your original post, I believe you stated that we should fight to change the law concerning the draft. I do agree that you don't have to be in the military to fight for freedom.
Larryj
Actually fight to change the draft law.