http://michellemalkin.com/2009/05/06/hawaii-passes-islam-day-law/
QuoteHawaii's state Senate overwhelmingly approved a bill Wednesday to celebrate "Islam Day" _ over the objections of a few lawmakers who said they didn't want to honor a religion connected to Sept. 11, 2001.
...The resolution to proclaim Sept. 24, 2009, as Islam Day passed the Senate on a 22-3 vote. It had previously passed the House.
The bill seeks to recognize "the rich religious, scientific, cultural and artistic contributions" that Islam and the Islamic world have made.
Malkin notes:QuoteThere is, as far as I know, no "Christianity Day" designation in Hawaiian law, though the state did designate Good Friday a government holiday, which courts ruled was "primarily proposed to increase the frequency of legal holidays."
No such rationale here.
HCR100 is a resolution not a law. I am being very technical I know. Not trying to start a fight, just hoping that this might prompt us to learn more about the legal system|government. I may even be wrong, but I don't think so.
David
I don't even begin to try to pretend I know anything about the legal system.
Just about the time I think I might have a clue.. the laws change........... :-\
I do honestly try to read some on it...but to tell you the truth it bores me so bad I give up.
Be it resolved that David did clear that up this Thursday the 7th of May 2009.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 07, 2009, 05:49:31 PM
Be it resolved that David did clear that up this Thursday the 7th of May 2009.
Diane I don't think I cleared up anything because if I did I have different responses depending if this is a law or a resolution. Diane if that was lawyer speak I got the point, but since I understood it my guess is you are not a lawyer.
David
"Islam Day"...in the same month that we were attacked by Islamic Jihadists. Completely and utterly stupid. >:(
I am a little upset with this, but Hawaii is not my state and therefore, not any of my business. However, I cannot see the purpose of having a day for one religion and not having a day for other religions.
Hey, I think I agreed with Billy. Now it is Billy's turn again.
Quote from: Wilma on May 07, 2009, 07:11:55 PM
I am a little upset with this, but Hawaii is not my state and therefore, not any of my business.
Hawaii is part of the United States, I am a U.S. citizen therefore it is my business.
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 07, 2009, 07:07:13 PM
"Islam Day"...in the same month that we were attacked by Islamic Jihadists. Completely and utterly stupid. >:(
I noticed the date too. I don't place much concern on resolutions or proclamations. Christmas is Christians Day. Easter is Judeo-Christian Day. Cinco de Mayo, Brittney Spears Day, St. Patrick's (Pepelect's Day), Halloween etc. Terrorist day no no matter whether law or resolution I wouldn't support.If we wanted to celebrate Nazi Day I would as long as we condemn Hitler and celebrate the fact he was defeated. My point being is I think there is a better day and month. I love celebrating all cultures that make up the United States. If this is a law then I have a whole other approach and I don't support if any of those were laws.
David
The problem with this is that it singles out one religion and one group. Not for any particluar religious reason but to celebrate the contributions of muslims. Christmas and Easter are observed to celebrate the birth of Christ and the Resurrection, it has nothing to do with the folks that hold christian beliefs.
Christmas is a single religions belief that of Christians. Good try but, your logic is flawed. That ends my rule of one. Anymore and I am bickering.
David
You misunderstood my post. Yes, Christians celebrate Christmas and Easter to honor the birth and resurrection of Christ. They don't do it because of the many contributions made to society by Christians.
Billy I like to argue and debate as much as you do. I'd even have a full on no rules knock down drag out fight with you as long as we got a big percentage of the pay per view revenue. I will re-read your post. I will have no comment. Not today , not on this post\topic. Let's save it for an important topic.
David
Billy, Hawaii is not asking Kansas to acknowledge this special day, but if they do, I might have something more to say about it.
Wilma, fair enough, I guess. I just think that it is setting a dangerous course.
With Hawaii passing an "Islam Day" doesn't it stand to reason that this is a test in a way to see how American people take to this idea? How do you think the people who lost loved ones in 9-11 from New York feel about this. Hawaii isn't thier state however, I would think that it would be upsetting. Worst yet you would think that Hawaii would be more understanding, after all I haven't seen any state wanting to pass a "Shinto Day" for the official religion of Japan.
It was not Islam that attacked on 9/11. It was terrorists. We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with terrorists no matter what their personal religion is. I think you will find some terrorists are so-called Christians. Maybe there should just be more understanding of other religions. Isn't that part of our Constitution?
Maybe we could have a "religions of the world" day and include Shinto, Tao, Hindu and the other old great religions. No? Frankly what Hawaii does is their business, in my humble opinion. If the media didn't have 24 hours a day to fill we wouldn't hear about that. It's hardly main stream news.
"other old great religions"
They all can't be right so what makes any of 'em so great?
To a very large number of people in the world they were and are traditional ways to worship. We were very small potatoes in the world picture of long ago. Christianity as we know it now is relatively young in all it's many forms. It's surprising how many have common threads that go 'way back. Why does it have to be all right or all wrong? God has many names. How is that wrong?
In this country "Freedom of Religion" makes them just as right as Christianity. Your personal belief as a Christian wouldn't stand up in some other countries.
Wilma, are you saying that one religion is as good as another in this country? There are those who are
calling for unifying the world's religions.
Diane, why do you think that Christainity is young?
John 8: 56-58
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
1 Kings 18:20-22
So Ahab sent unto all the children of Israel, and gathered the prophets together unto mount Carmel.
And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.
I hope you don't mind me using the Bible as that's all we really have to go by.
The Jewish religion is older than Christianity. If not for them we wouldn't be us. Again, the bible was translated. Unless you can read ancient Aramiac, ancient Greek and other ancient languages, we accept the translation, not the original. The original Bible wasn't in English! And I said "relatively young." Hindu is accepted as the oldest, possibly as old as 9,000 years or so.
I don't see how Christianity could have existed before Christ since it is based on Christ. I know that Christ is God, but God did not appear as Christ until Jesus was born. Jesus was born to bring the Christian beliefs to a nation of Jews and those who believed became Christians. Those Jews who did not believe remained Jews. The Christian belief did not exist until Jesus brought it to us. Is there anything in the Bible about Christians except as a prophecy?
Sure, how about this one from the Bible, Wilma?
Daniel 3:22-27
22Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flames of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
23And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
24Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
26Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.
27And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellors, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.
Here's the first use of the term Christian:
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
You know, for all of those who don't believe in God, I sure hope for their sake that He is considerate of the "other great religions", somehow I don't think He will be. I am pretty sure that He doesn't consider Himself "small potatoes" in comparison with other "gods".
I am sure that if He wanted so-called lost books to be in the Bible, He would have seen to it that they were included.
Billy, I'm with you.
Nowdays, we've got a lot of compromising going on that just does not hold water.
I'm not interested in religious unity (or world unity) and can't be a part of it.
Diane, this earth would have to be much older than 9,000 years for the Hindu religion to be that old.
That seems impossible for the Hindu to be that old.
According to daughter who has a degree in Anthropology earth is 4.3 billion years old. Proven by scientific methods. Therefore, our God is much older than that. The fact that he didn't send his Son to us until a little over 2000 years ago is one of his many mysteries. We are not meant to understand everything. We are not ready to understand everything. We need only to accept.
Well, of course, He is much older than that. He has always been. He has no beginning or end.
You do understand that Jesus was born and raised Jewish. He was a young "teacher" in the synagogue part of the time. Because his thinking was a bit different, he collected Jewish followers, who indeed became his disciples and the rest really is history. Even today there are various branches of Judaism ...Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and others, including "Jews for Jesus" who have adopted Jesus but keep the Jewish tradition too. I find it all very interesting, historic and spiritual at the same time. I think Shintoism and Taoism are interesting too. I don't feel threatened by them at all, it's just different.
Diane, funny you should mention Taoism, as I was thinking about this earlier today while reading the "Hippie" thread. I wasn't quite old enough to actually be a hippie, but I was definitely a wannabe! What I understand about that cultural movement is that, in addition to its ties to the Beat Movement ("hipsters), part of it was rooted in Taoism, which involved a return to nature, self-sufficiency, respect for earth and all living things, living in the moment, etc. In other words, peace, love and grooviness :)
Interest in Eastern religions was really taking hold in this country about that time, and several adopted a Tao way of life. As more people learned of this movement, it morphed into something more mod (i.e. British Invasion), esoteric (Beatles and the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi), and experimental (TM, LSD and other mind-altering practices) and what once was a spiritual back-to-nature movement transformed into a commercialized Flower Power generation. Even middle-aged people who thought the world was coming to an end eventually accepted the cultural shift and started wearing love beads, bell bottoms and flowers in their hair. It was the Age of Aquarius, and Madison Avenue made a fortune perpetuating the image.
It's hard not to see the perfect storm of that time period. It was a true paradigm shift, from those who didn't question authority to those who didn't trust anyone over 30. It was a youth movement with effects that crossed every aspect of society: music, fashion, politics, mores, language and religion. No one alive today was not touched in some way by the hippie movement.
I think that the problem with "interesting" is that it draws people away from the right path. We cannot forget that satan is a very slick, and cunning adversary, and that his greatest trick was convincing people that he doesn't exist. Shintosim, taoism, buddaism, hindu, islam, astrology, numerology, scientology, are all his making. If he can keep people involved in these false teachings then he can keep them from God.
There can only be one true religion - the rest are false.
Matthew 7:13-15
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
redcliffsw, you forgot one of the most important...John 11:25
"Jesus said unto her, I AM THE RESURRECTION, AND THE LIFE: HE THAT BELIEVETH IN ME, THOUGH HE WERE DEAD, YET SHALL HE LIVE"
I doubt the Shinto monks care much about what any of us think. If God didn't want them to exist, they wouldn't.
There is a reason for everything and only God knows what his reason is. It is for each of us to live the kind of lives that he sent his Son to teach us.
On the other hand, God works in mysterious ways.
The Shinto are on this earth with a free will and they have choices to make too.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
4.3 billion years!
Wilma, how could the earth be over 6,000 or 7,000 years?
How could it not be that old?
Have you ever studied Anthropology, Archaeology or any of the sciences that explore the past?
They are kidding, right? Even the Grand Canyon rocks are at least 10 million years old. How would you explain dinosaur fossils? They are 'way older than man.
How could we not be kidding about the earth being 6 or 7 thousand years old?
Read your Bible and figure it out.
You can either accept the Bible by faith or accept evolution by faith.
It's not that complicated.
By the way, how old was Adam when God made Adam?
Have you ever studied Anthropology, Archaeology or any of the sciences that explore the past?
I know people who have studied those things and I know geollogists. Knowing those people
does not make me an expert but I do believe the Bible from cover to cover, The Bible is the
foundation of Christainity and that's why Christian folk accept it as the truths for eternity.
Is there anything in the Bible that says the first day was 24 hours long? I can believe in the Bible and the age of the earth, too.
Besides the Bible was written by man after man had developed a system for recording words. The stories in the Bible were not recorded as they happened by eye witnesses. They were passed down by mouth from generation to generation and you all know what happens when a story is repeated.
There is also the theory that God dictated the stories. Even the New Testament was written after Jesus had returned to the Father. One of the Gospels was written by someone who did not have first hand knowledge of the events, only what he had gathered from people that were eye witnesses. He did a good job of reporting. The other gospels were written after Jesus had left earth and people were beginning to realize that they were losing the memories of what had actually happened. Matthew, Mark and John realized that they had to record what they knew or it would be lost. Much is lost when a story is repeated and much is added.
You can believe the Bible word for word if you want to and not believe how old the earth actually is, but so many scientists saying the same thing cannot be wrong. The physical evidence is there. The tests have been done. The age of earth according to the Bible is man's interpretation of it.
Wilma, thanks. My thoughts too. Christianity is much older than the Bible as we know it. My minister of long ago was great for working with our youth group. He could address those questions better than any person I ever met. He too said we mustn't make assumptions based on the 24 hour day, the seven day week. The Bible has much that is open to interpretation, and passages that contradict each other. Of course, as teens we asked about the Adam and Eve and evolution thing. He felt the ideas weren't necessarily contradictory. Adam and Eve could have been early humans but we'll never know. Personally, I love the old Indian stories too, about how thing came to be. What about Aesop's Fables. They are life guides too. I think we can enjoy all those things and not be branded a heretic. No more from me, I'm done.
At one point scienctists said that dinosaurs were giant lizards, now they say that dino's had feathers and that they are related closer to birds than lizards. Science, like man, can be flawed.
Diane-
I believe the entire Bible to be true and you're looking like it ain't so.
So can you say which parts of the Bible you believe not to be true?
I swore I wasn't going to do this, but since you were polite about it....it's not about ''truth" VS "lies." Its about the well know Biblical contradictions and the interpretations of the time, based on what people knew then. I am certainly no expert and this treds on dangerous territory. I know there are more than 100 "errors" or "contradictions" in the Bible based on what we accept today. We studied some of these, but I'll admit I've forgotten most of them. A few stuck in my head. "Fowl" don't have four legs. Neither do insects. Snails don't melt. Rabbits don't chew cud, bats aren't birds. It's hardly fair to take these out of context. But it does mean that many things can't be taken literally. Some of what was "true" then doesn't apply so easily now, especially since we are at the mercy of the old translators. If you want to accept everything exactly as it was written, that is certainly your privilege. I have friends who are very fundamentalist too, and it makes for interesting discussions. Then we get a few Catholics in the mix and really take off! ;D But never in anger.
If we're going to start spouting the Bible like faucets in order to substantiate our views, then let me add this particular passage...God said, "I AM". God did not say, "I am Christian" or "I am Buddhist" or "I am Jewish". Creationism and Evolution intertwine beautifully...There are no holes in the fabric that God wove...Who is arrogant and vain enough to say how long a day is in God's time? And, anyone who tries to state, with perfect authority, what God would have done in this life, is going to have to one day face the Big Man themselves...And I would pay money to see the looks on their faces when they suddenly find out that they are not the only ones that God allows into Heaven. It's like the old song..."Everyone sayin' God ain't goin' to Heaven". God also said, "Just as you have done to the least of these, so have you done unto me." Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 10, 2009, 10:25:10 AM
At one point scienctists said that dinosaurs were giant lizards, now they say that dino's had feathers and that they are related closer to birds than lizards. Science, like man, can be flawed.
"Science, like man, can be flawed" and the Bible was written by man, translated by man and interpreted by man. The Bible is what it is to each individual. I have been looking for something to refresh some things that I believe are in the Bible. Guess what I found. God created man, then took his rib and created woman? Not so.
"Genesis 1. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." And that's all he said.
Excellent, Wilma...Thank you.
Did you know that Eve was actually Adam's second wife? According to the some accounts of the Jewish tradition, his first wife was Lilith. She was Adam's equal, but he soon found he didn't much care for that arrangement. He wanted to be the one in charge. They fought so much that eventually Lilith left Adam and wandered the earth. (She was said to be a temptress who would come to men as they slept, and was a threat to newborn children.) Adam pleaded his case with the Creator, and this is when Eve was created from Adam's rib.
It is commonly believed that this is the reason for the two different versions of the creation of man and woman that we find in the Bible today.
Quote from: Wilma on May 10, 2009, 06:08:04 PM
"Science, like man, can be flawed" and the Bible was written by man, translated by man and interpreted by man. The Bible is what it is to each individual. I have been looking for something to refresh some things that I believe are in the Bible. Guess what I found. God created man, then took his rib and created woman? Not so.
"Genesis 1. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." And that's all he said.
You needed to look a little harder wilma, Genesis 2:21-24
"And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. THEREFORE SHALL A MAN LEAVE HIS FATHER AND HIS MOTHER, AND SHALL CLEAVE UNTO HIS WIFE: AND THEY SHALL BE ONE FLESH."
On a side note, you implied that the Bible was written, translated, interpreted by man so it to can be flawed. As a Christian I would urge you to be careful about that. :angel:
"Judge not, lest you be judged"..."Before you would remove the splinter from another's eye, remove the plank from your own"..."Beware false vanity, for it was by such sin that the angels fell"...
And, on a side note, it is absolutely men who wrote, translated, and interpreted the Bible...Women weren't allowed access to this endeavor...This is a matter that has been documented historically, beyond anyone's capability to twist it or manipulate it. So, yes, since humans were involved in this activity, error is almost certainly involved in parts of it. For the faithful who adhere faithfully to it, the preceding is of little consequence if their faith is sufficient enough to compensate for these elements.
Since when has this become the Religion board???????????????? ::) ::) ::) Let's get back to the issue of Politics and leave Religion out it, please.
Quote from: Catwoman on May 10, 2009, 07:49:42 PM
"Judge not, lest you be judged"..."Before you would remove the splinter from another's eye, remove the plank from your own"..."Beware false vanity, for it was by such sin that the angels fell"...
I was not judging her, I was just telling her to be careful, wether she does or not is up to her.
Quote from: Catwoman on May 10, 2009, 07:57:48 PM
And, on a side note, it is absolutely men who wrote, translated, and interpreted the Bible...Women weren't allowed access to this endeavor...This is a matter that has been documented historically, beyond anyone's capability to twist it or manipulate it.
Thank God for it, if women were allowed to be a part of it, we would still be arguing over what to call it. ;)
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Quote from: Catwoman on May 10, 2009, 07:59:40 PM
Since when has this become the Religion board???????????????? ::) ::) ::) Let's get back to the issue of Politics and leave Religion out it, please.
Cat, I agree.
I was wondering who was going to catch that. Might have known it would be Billy. Studying the Bible can be a full time job and still not have the answers. If each person is allowed to believe as they wish, isn't that the way God intended?
Lord almighty.. I am going to have to repeat what Warph said in another thread...
"Am I ever glad I didn't get into the middle of this.. " :D
I share my spiritual views with anyone who cares to "open their mind up"..
Doesn't seem to be many here that can do that.. I'm really sorry for that.
sooooooooooooooooo...............I guess since I started the thread I will have to agree that it might be best if we went back to arguing politics..
Of course... nobody agrees on that subject much either.. hahahaha.... ;D
although I am enjoying sitting back and reading all the posts on this subject....
But I will say this.........it's quite interesting that we all love and honor our God..This is good.
Why is it so important to some that you can only do it "a certain way( their way".. ) :) or you are doomed forever.. ::)
Sorry......I just don't buy into it..
God didn't make it rocket science............
Love and honor the higher power that HE is.......Love ourselves ( for we ARE that higher power) give unselfishly of yourself to your fellow man....honor and love and forgive..
Do and be the best person you can be every day of your lifetime on the earth, and I seriously doubt you will have any problems once you cross over.. ;).
Thanks Teresa. I think we went far afield because of the Islam part, which is a very hot button for many. I still think Hawaii did it to attract tourists. I was actually wondering more about the separation of church and state, so to speak, but I didn't see the original article so I don't know how it came about. Now that's another state that is very multicultural because of its history. Some still leave offerings to Pele, regardless of their religious affiliation.