Could somebody please fill us in on the objections that the Devlins have to the wind farm? Or any other objection anybody could possibly have?
My impression is that the Devlins are concerned about the quality of life being affected by wind turbines located near residential areas, and they want to provide another perspective to be considered. The literature they shared was reprinted from:
www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Green_Backlash_The_Wind_Turbine_Controversy
The article describes the problems people have encountered when living near a wind farm. Granted, the turbines in this article were located with 1,000-2,000 feet from housing, which is not the case at the proposed wind farm in Elk County. The article also states that water fowl, bats and other wildlife are negatively affected, as are property values.
Another reprinted article states that Westar rates are increasing because of the company's investment in wind farms, as well as in the building of new plants, upgrading existing plants and and pollution control upgrades. A third article describes how the noise from turbines is causing health problems for some Oklahoma residents -- who live within 2,000 feet of a wind farm.
Personally, I support the Caney River wind farm project 100 percent. To my knowledge there are no subdivisions located anywhere near it, and as far as I can tell, the cattle that graze under the turbines near Beaumont don't seem to be disturbed by the noise. Would I want the turbines located near my home? No, but I also wouldn't want a coal plant or a natural gas facility or a nuclear reactor or any other public utility a stone's throw from my back door.
The only downside to the wind farm that I can see is that Elk County won't be getting any of the electricity generated by the farm. Perhaps that's something to be considered? Would it be something that would attract light industry or residential investment if the electrical service was provided by the city or county at a fixed rate for a fixed number of years? But I digress.....
As with any issue, there are at least two sides and usually many more. Again, my impression is that the Devlins are concerned about the environmental and personal impact that wind farms can have, and they simply wanted to present information to the community that they find relevant.
Electricity generation at the Elk County wind farm might well find its way into local homes after Westar, Caney Valley Electric and others purchase it. Generated electricity goes into the grid then the utility companies buy and sell much like oil or other products.
I finally got a chance to drive out by the wind farm near Beaumont and got my first up-close view of the wind mills. How impressive! I was glad to see that the cattle were grazing right up to the towers --- there are no fences required.
Sure hope the project goes as planned. It could be the best thing that's happened to Elk County in many years --- right up there with Flint Oak.
I agree Rudy! Any environmental issue is totally reversible unlike other energy producing schemes. There was a great deal of controvery at Hays, but that has all evaporated or blown away. LOL! :laugh:
As long as residents of Elk County get the electricty then I can agree with it. If not, then I would ask why the counties receiving the enegry want the turbines located in elk county and not their own?
Maybe there is no room.
It seems that the landowner does not
have to allow wind turbines on his property.
Here's a current opinion about Wind Turbines.
http://lewrockwell.com/orig9/floy8.html
Quote from: redcliffsw on May 02, 2009, 04:26:56 PM
Here's a current opinion about Wind Turbines.
http://lewrockwell.com/orig9/floy8.html
I agree with the article on that. Windfarms are not a very good means of production of electricity. The nuclear reactors are the most efficient means and most clean of all technologies.
Only problem around here is where you can build one. One you need a large volume water source in order to cool the core. SO that means they can only be built on large rivers or near oceans.
Solar only is good in areas like a desert where the sun is shining most of the year. At night their useless. WIndfarms only work in certain areas too just like solar. THey have to be in a certain wind category area.
Elk should definately require the company building them to supply elk county area with a low electric rate. That should be a major benefit for the residents of the county for the business locating in their area.
I have often wondered about how the Wolf Creek nuclear reactor in Burlington, Kansas, got sufficient water from a creek.
In Oklahoma, a maintenance man went inside one of the wind units and climbed to the top of one of the wind turbines to provide maintenance. He crawled into a area within the main nacelle housing that is right behind the blades. He was promptly bitten by a rattlesnake.
Apparently, the snake rode up when the wind unit was being put together. (From Discovery Planet Dirty Jobs)
Waldo, I think they use John Redmond reservoir for Wolf Creek.
We drove through Burlington about ten years ago and I wanted to go find the plant but when I mentioned nuclear, my wife did not share my enthusiasm so we went on to Kansas City.
Just pulled up my maps and see that Wolf Creek runs into and out of Wolf Creek Lake, which is as big as or larger than the close by John Redmond.
That sure explains how they furnish the cooling water. I recall when Kansas City Power and Light started building the reactor, and I think the plant was never as big as it was supposed to be because of environmental concerns or opposition from environmental groups.
I just read that Wolf Creek produces enough energy to provide enough power for 800,000 homes. At four people per that covers 3.2 million people.
Only 2.8 million live in Kansas.
The main cooling is the Lake adjacent. They did build and have the ability to drain John Redmond Res. if needed in a drought. The plant used to allow tours where you drove right to the front door in the plant bus. 9/11 put a stop to that. I got to tour the plant as it was being constructed and once after it was functioning.
It is quite different from the large coal plants at St. Mary's or even the Sunflower coal plants. There isn't rail traffic bringing in coal 24/7. There is security from hell. I think that was the first time I ever saw armed guards with three guns apiece walking security at a gate. I have been to many military installations and it is much easier to get on to a base than into Wolf Creek.
By the way the fishing around the lake is awesome.
Don't the fish glow in the dark up in that region?? lol ;D
Perhaps 6 eyes and two tails? ;D ;D ;D
Wolf Creek built a 36" water line from a pump station just below John Redmond dam to fill and maintain the lake level for cooling and to have in emergency. NO, the fish do not glow or have 6 eyes & 2 tails, but they do grow better because of the slightly warmer water that is heated during the cooling of the plant.
Their food sources may be better too because of the warmer water. Tasty stuff = tasty fish
One of the arguments is that the birds and bats fly into the blades and that is bad. How many stupid birds fly in to buildings, windows, cars, existing electrical installations a year. What is the statistics on how stupid animals act? Yes nuclear power is more efficient than wind. Yes wind only works 1/3 of the time. The problem is that they don't turn down the nuclear power plant when the wind farm fires up they turn off the nat gas plants and coal. We also don't have 5 billion dollars to build a new nuclear plant. We don't have enough water to water cattle let alone keep a core from going china syndrome. Unless you want to use salt water that the oil industry has been trying to get rid of for fifty years. We have oceans of that.
Caneyvalley hasn't bought in to any windfarms yet because the power from windfarm is more expensive than off the grid coal.
Westar hasn't agreed to buy the Elk county wind but has pursued its own wind in Kansas. It is kind of cheeky to own a wind farm and gripe that wind power is causing you to increase electric rates. You raise the electrical rate for the southern half of Kansas when you built the nuclear plant and then screwed the northern half when the two merged. If someone at the head of Westar had been looking out for the Westar consumer instead of which golf course to play next we would have half the infastructure problems with transmission lines, primary lines, and neglect of the bread and butter of the company. They spent billions on security, communications, executives bonus and litigation. Mean while the system is flawed.
What is the down side of net metering? Why are utilities against it?
You can't build a $200million dollar nuclear plant. I have yet to see a landowner against wind allowing wind to build on them.
As far as ascetics, the ugly cell towers north and south of Howard are much more a distraction to me than the entire Beaumont farm. Why do we need two competing companies building within such close proximity to each other.
We can't regulate anything in Elk county as we are not zoned. We have no inspection or codes on the books to keep anyone from doing anything unless they want to commercially fill a hole with solid waste.
If a comapny wants to build a windfarm and the landowner wants it on his or her property, why should it be any of my business?
That is one of the other sides of small or nonexistent Government They can't help you, you are at the mercy of what big business owners want to do, with little if any oversight.That's also capitalism. Intervening to help the population at large would be socialist. Pick your poison. I know it's none of my business, but I do feel bad for you Pep. What is "off the grid" coal? Great guns, you wouldn't want it so close to your property line so that if it fell it would fall on your part, but other than that I sure don't see a problem. Ours will be off the coast and some people are against them too. They might scare a fish or something.
Aesthetically, I find the Beaumont farm very pleasing. The pace at which the blades turn is soothing somehow. I could watch for hours, just like watching a river flow or waves come on shore, it is mesmerising. 8)
Nothing against the folks who allow wind towers on their land, but I wouldn't want any on mine.
Yeah it seems un-natural for the numerous wind turbines to be
in the countryside.
There's a lot of 'em near Woodward, OK.
I know landowners who have them and they seem to like the
income.
I'm sure the income is good. But it is my understanding that if a landowner allows turbines on his property then he must also allow 24/7 access to that property as well. And when I look out of my window I don't want to see them. There are enough man made things blocking out the view.
Quote from: sixdogsmom on May 03, 2009, 06:10:18 PM
Aesthetically, I find the Beaumont farm very pleasing. The pace at which the blades turn is soothing somehow. I could watch for hours, just like watching a river flow or waves come on shore, it is mesmerising. 8)
OMG!! I totally am agreeing with you sixdogs...Somebody take my temperature!!! LOL ;D
Yeah, the income seems OK for now. But what does the
future hold for value to landowners as some of the contracts
/easements might be for as long as 30 or 40 years?
Also, the easements might tie-up the land for other uses such
as oil/gas exploration.
Wouldn't mineral rights and oil leases and such be separate? I don't think I would sign the contract if they made it that exclusive.
Well, Hillbilly, it had to come sometime, that you and I could agree on something! And agreeing on something that seems to be good for the future of the county even makes it sweeter IMHO! :D :D
Diane, I wouldn't want a plane to fall out of the sky into my house either, but somethings in this world you don't have control over and there is no need to worry about things you have no control over.
Does anybody have a copy of the information which the Devlins passed out at the Howard Chamber meeting? I'd like to read it.
Is there a big difference (other than the easement thingee) between a windmill(s) that generates electricity and the windmill on my granddaddys farm that rattled and clanked just to get some water? There is a huge windmill farm near Palm Springs just off the interstate and I agree that it is somewhat esthetic to watch. Would I want one on my property? Probably not unless it was providing power to my house. Who knows? Maybe one day it will come to that. I mean, having a smaller version of a windmill sitting on the roof next to the satelite dish providing electricity to your house!!
Great Guns, here there is some control over tall things. New Castle County has something. I'd have to check the details though.
There used to be wind generators before rural areas had electricity. I don't know if they could store electricity, but one of my friend's family depended on one until they got their gas powered generator. That was fun, too. When the generator ran out of gas, someone would have to hurry out and refuel. I still see the windmill type sometimes between here and Wichita. Don't know if they are used or not.
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 03, 2009, 08:25:10 PMI'm sure the income is good. But it is my understanding that if a landowner allows turbines on his property then he must also allow 24/7 access to that property as well. And when I look out of my window I don't want to see them. There are enough man made things blocking out the view.
Quote from: redcliffsw on May 03, 2009, 08:40:42 PMYeah, the income seems OK for now. But what does the future hold for value to landowners as some of the contracts /easements might be for as long as 30 or 40 years?
Also, the easements might tie-up the land for other uses such as oil/gas exploration.
I don't see a difference in someone having wind farms on their land as opposed to gas/oil wells. They're both contracts and it looks to me (I'm no expert) that the oil wells and tanks are much more messy and ugly than wind turbines. Oil & gas folks have a right and an obligation to get on your property to do their maintenance whenever they want/need to. The good ones close the gates & don't make ruts... I don't want one close to my house, especaillly if they are noisy, but a couple hundred acres of them on my farm away from where they would disturb anyone's sleep? You bet. That's how I feel right now anyway.
Rudy,
The info the Devlins handed out was printouts from the link: http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Green_Backlash_The_Wind_Turbine_Controversy (7 pages)
and an article titled "Westar's rates to rise again" by THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, JOHN HANNA, April 1, 2009 (2 pages)
and another titled "Wind turbine noise fuels frustraition in Oklahoma" by RANDY ELLIS, THE OKLAHOMAN, 3 AprilL 2009 (1 page)
I think they do bring up some valid points I hadn't heard before.
Ok, not that this has much importance, but I got our county regs. Any tower, should it fall, must land in it's own "fall zone," on it's own property, not the property of anyone else. So a communication tower can't be put right next to the property line.
I don't know of any Surface Lease, Right-of-Way, Easement, Mineral Lease, Pipeline ROW, Pasture Lease, etc that does not allow access 24/7. One of the operators that I work for in West Texas has the Electric Generating Windmills on his ranch and they do not bother the livestock, wildlife or anything else that I know of. Myrna and I have driven up to them and sat in the middle of them, they are quiet and soothing. They do no damage to the land. Florida Power and Light has the lease and installed the Wind Turbines, they built the great all-weather roads on the Ranch and the Operator uses the roads to get back to some Oil/Gas Wells. Lots of people are always saying they wish someone would find oil or gas on their land, personally, all things being equal, I would much rather have the Wind Turbines than the oil/gas production. Everywhere I have seen the Wind Turbines installed, it has been on big block of land with no houses around close. I am pleased for Elk County that they will or may get the wind turbines and the Royalty revenue, and to me it would mnake absolutely no difference if that electricity that is generated goes to Elk County or to New York City. Also I would much rather have the Wind Turbines than a Nuclear Power Plant.
Bottom line is that the proposed area for the new EK wind farm is located MILES away from any residence. If you doubt it, drive up there an check it out (just watch out for Chuck who may stop you and find out why you're rutting up his pasture...even though it's a "semi-private" road). Heck, our house is probably as close as anyone!
Right now, all the land owners have been on board on this project for YEARS now. This isn't a new thing. They've been doing research, studies, wildlife counts, etc, up there for YEARS now. They have to do these things before building wind farms... as well as work with the land owners. The company who is building the towers is VERY GOOD about working with the land owners; even going as far as helping them with conservation efforts and other programs. I think (don't quote me) that even the wild horse landowners are getting some towers... and if the BLM allows that around their wild horses, then it should be OK! (ha!)
I understand, and agree, that in certain areas the windtowers would be a nuisance (in real residential areas). I mean, I've heard stories about them getting struck by lighting and one of the blades falling off! But in an area such as this; this would be PRIME location to have the towers. Not bothering anyone. Not bothering any animals (well, we'll see how Chuck's horses respond while he's riding them underneath...). Giving a CLEAN energy source to the US.
Yes, I also wish the county would benefit from the energy, but I think the larger cities are the ones who need it more (need more CLEAN energy). Besides, that still might be an option; in CO, one of the wind towers is dedicated to the county and any unused electricity from that tower they are able to sell back to the grid. I think it's just a matter of how the landowners and County Comish's decide to negotiate the terms of the agreement with the company who is building it.
Also, I know this seems shallow, but look at the amount of money the county will be receiving from this project!!! We shouldn't be ashamed... Back on the subject of Burlington, KS and the nuclear plant there... have you seen their town, school, football stadium, etc? I've heard that there and the school in SW KS (Lakin, maybe?) where they have a nuclear plant, too, ALL the students get laptop computers. I know money isn't everything... but it sure would help make our communities achieve all our growth and survival goals!
Lastly; I think the Devlins have done amazing things for the county and communities and they are dedicated to the well-being and growth of the community. I admire them a great deal. The reason I asked the question was more curiosity and wondering what their stance was; not to disagree or to degrade their opinions. I think this was a good discussion and I learned a lot from it.
There is only one nuclear operation in Kansas. Lakin has some type of natural gas effort.
There are 31 states with nuclear reactors.
Kansas ranks 26th of the 31 in production.
Wolf Creek reactor occupies 9,820 acres.
Neighboring states and number of reactors:
Colorado - 0
Nebraska - 1
Oklahoma - 0
Missouri - 1
Arkansas - 2
Thanks Tobina and Frank for your input on this subject. The reason that I started it is the very small possibility for objection to this clean, renewable, safe, and reversible energy source. I thought that I might be missing something and there were reasons that I was not aware of. Thanks to all for their input, and if you should have something to add, please do so. I am all ears! :o
I think it's something you all could be proud of.
Yes, I do know that nuclear is clean and effiecient, however we have still not resolved the waste situation. Also, I do not see triple guards on the Beaumont wind farm, so that must mean that the threat of terrorist attack on them is very small. It would take that fellow, Sir Whats His Name? in a turban to take a poke at those windmills. Ha! Please could we start another thread on nuclear if argument is wanted about that, and leave this thread for all the windy ---- ooopppss! Wind supporters! ;D ;D
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 03, 2009, 04:14:35 PM
That is one of the other sides of small or nonexistent Government They can't help you, you are at the mercy of what big business owners want to do, with little if any oversight.That's also capitalism. Intervening to help the population at large would be socialist. Pick your poison. I know it's none of my business, but I do feel bad for you Pep. What is "off the grid" coal? Great guns, you wouldn't want it so close to your property line so that if it fell it would fall on your part, but other than that I sure don't see a problem. Ours will be off the coast and some people are against them too. They might scare a fish or something.
Why on earth would you feel bad for me.......The lack of govt intervention is why I live here. I like high electric rates, no water,poor land values, high taxes, crappy roads within 20 miles of the best limestone, empty downtown buildings, empty houses for the breeding of opossum, skunks, and the ever popular Norwegian rat, 15 or so school buildings one for every child, brand new 48 passenger school buses, a justified expense because we are reimbursed by the federal government for the fact that the kids live more than 2.5 miles from school that we purposely build out side of town just to get it built, that can't legally drive down the road because of the 3 ton or less bridges, minimum maintenance signs that warn you to procede at your own risk because your property value has dropped because your neighbor built a wind farm at the end of said road and we can't afford to grade, gravel, or fix the crossing, Quad county build two or more of every type of business that already exists so we can watch it fail for the greater economic development and poverty.
Poverty the state of the average income for all three of the next graduates of the WEHS.
I love it here........I have land leased to oil and gas parties. I would lease to any wind developer that would come along. I am open to putting in a golf course. I would take offers to build a water tower just to have more pressure let alone availabity. Hunting and fishing leases are renewed every third year. Lodging could be arranged, two bedrooms just sit empty. Wouldn't move to a place where the EMT's don't have to call back to the dispatch two or more times to find your house for anything. Off grid has so many contexts.....Where you cell phone doesn't work, the gps gets confused, and the neighbors are few are far between. This place is better the longer you stay here.
Good grief! Never Mind..... ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: sixdogsmom on May 04, 2009, 06:33:20 PM
Yes, I do know that nuclear is clean and effiecient, however we have still not resolved the waste situation. Also, I do not see triple guards on the Beaumont wind farm, so that must mean that the threat of terrorist attack on them is very small. It would take that fellow, Sir Whats His Name? in a turban to take a poke at those windmills. Ha! Please could we start another thread on nuclear if argument is wanted about that, and leave this thread for all the windy ---- ooopppss! Wind supporters! ;D ;D
UHmm The waste problem? The rods in the nuclear plant once used can be recycled and used in another plant. They can pretty much be used completely up by the time they cycle through the whole process. And then once used up, they can be broken down to extract radioactive components like cobalt to utilize in medical proceedures such as Nuclear bone scans and Nuclear stress tests for the heart. The amount left by that time is easily handled and given that information and technology doubles every 2 years, we probably will find ways in the near term to extrapolate more products from whats left and eventually make the "waste" inert.
Nuclear material is much like oil when distilled. You can separate various levels of energy and producst from it.
Without Nuclear reactors, we can't have the medicines we have today, nor the technolgy and tests that are preformed. Shoot without the reactors we can't even do stents in the heart.
As far as security, we have triple security on our hydro plants, dams, waterways, fuel depots, ect. Your going to find security on windfarms too. They have to protect the stations that connect to the grid.
The only triple security i have seen on a Nuclear plant is only on the ones that produce plutonium. The rest of them don't get as high a security because of the type of plants they are. If i remember right there are 3 types maybe 4, of which each type uses a recycled rod from the ones that extract plutonium.
Wow, I agree with most of what you wrote here pep. (looking outside to check if the world is still on its axis)
Quote from: pepelect on May 04, 2009, 09:33:01 PM
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 03, 2009, 04:14:35 PM
That is one of the other sides of small or nonexistent Government They can't help you, you are at the mercy of what big business owners want to do, with little if any oversight.That's also capitalism. Intervening to help the population at large would be socialist. Pick your poison. I know it's none of my business, but I do feel bad for you Pep. What is "off the grid" coal? Great guns, you wouldn't want it so close to your property line so that if it fell it would fall on your part, but other than that I sure don't see a problem. Ours will be off the coast and some people are against them too. They might scare a fish or something.
Why on earth would you feel bad for me.......The lack of govt intervention is why I live here. I like high electric rates, no water,poor land values, high taxes, crappy roads within 20 miles of the best limestone, empty downtown buildings, empty houses for the breeding of opossum, skunks, and the ever popular Norwegian rat, 15 or so school buildings one for every child, brand new 48 passenger school buses, a justified expense because we are reimbursed by the federal government for the fact that the kids live more than 2.5 miles from school that we purposely build out side of town just to get it built, that can't legally drive down the road because of the 3 ton or less bridges, minimum maintenance signs that warn you to procede at your own risk because your property value has dropped because your neighbor built a wind farm at the end of said road and we can't afford to grade, gravel, or fix the crossing, Quad county build two or more of every type of business that already exists so we can watch it fail for the greater economic development and poverty.
Poverty the state of the average income for all three of the next graduates of the WEHS.
I love it here........I have land leased to oil and gas parties. I would lease to any wind developer that would come along. I am open to putting in a golf course. I would take offers to build a water tower just to have more pressure let alone availabity. Hunting and fishing leases are renewed every third year. Lodging could be arranged, two bedrooms just sit empty. Wouldn't move to a place where the EMT's don't have to call back to the dispatch two or more times to find your house for anything. Off grid has so many contexts.....Where you cell phone doesn't work, the gps gets confused, and the neighbors are few are far between. This place is better the longer you stay here.
Quote from: srkruzich on May 06, 2009, 07:02:49 AM
As far as security, we have triple security on our hydro plants, dams, waterways, fuel depots, ect. Your going to find security on windfarms too. They have to protect the stations that connect to the grid.
Yup, the security on the windfarms is going to be Chuck Norris riding around on his trusty steed Hank sporting a pistol in his saddlebags. And if you're a coyote, then you better steer clear.
Chuck Norris does not need a gun, he is faster than a speeding bullet, can whip a grizzly, jump over buildings, outrun a car. Chuck Norris is a one man Texas Ranger force in Texas.
Looks like we've had 692 responses to this subject on the forum. What a wonderful thing it is to have such an interactive voice in this community. When anyone opposes the proposed wind farm in Elk County, they should visit the forum and browse this diverse discussion of a community issue. The forum may not change minds, but it certainly provides good insight into the thinking of local folks.
So far, it would seem the only bad thing that might happen at a wind farm would be a rattlesnake bite up at the top and inside one of those structures.
You didn't the mention the degraded neighboring land values, the higher electric rates and the ugly towers.............
How can building a green technology in a depressed economy be bad for the area? The land values are too high now if you want to compare it to what you can make off the land. The only people worried about the depressed value are those who bought it to sell it. The Westar electric rates already went up. The towers are just cool to watch as you are riding your horse to get your cattle to market. If I were a bird hunter I wouldn't be hunting the rocky outcrops of the Flinthills anyway. Deer don't seem to mind human contact. I see more deer and turkeys than I ever have. Bats....I have been living in the Flinthills for 40 years and have yet to see a bat. Buzzards but no bats. Did the threat of a wind farm kill off the Prairie Chicken? Where did all the buffalo get blown to?
If you power your oil and gas wells with electricity from a wind mill is it green power?
Quote from: W. Gray on May 07, 2009, 02:54:38 PM
So far, it would seem the only bad thing that might happen at a wind farm would be a rattlesnake bite up at the top and inside one of those structures.
\
Believe you can get that standing on the ground too! ;D ;D
Not to be argumentative, but I've seen bats in Longton. They buzz around our light pole eating bugs in the summertime. Fun to watch too I might add. But I digress, up with the windmills already!! :laugh:
So who's on here from the Beaumont area?
What do they have to say about the wind farm?
Just a quick update on the wind project - Westar has chosen not to buy the energy from our project due to "perceived environmental problems" It is really sad that non Elk County residents have a right to say what is best for our county....The good news is - there are other utility companies - it just may delay the start of the project.
I love the word "perceived".
Let perception be thy truth!
DW
What the heck is a 'percieved' environmental problem? Anybody? ??? ???
I find this to be troubling. As I contacted officials at Westar Energy to encourage them to support the Elk County project, I sensed a hesitancy on their part to talk. It was like they wanted to support our project but there were influences from within the framework of rich and powerful investors who wanted the project stopped.
I'm now sending them copies of their own Request for Proposals to Purchase 50 MW of Wind Power that the company sent out in February. They apparently thought it was a good idea until the "they won't like it at the country club" factor kicked in.
I agree with Liz. This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. The wind project must advance.
SDM, "perceived enviromental impact" means that the company realizes that there are going to be a loud protesting group of people who will scream and holler about the impact of the wind towers on the enviroment. The company does not want to hassle with this at this time and therefore states that there is a "perceived (we think somebody gonna get upset) environmental (term used to cover anything that is built) impact (how big the protesting group is).
Larryj
I have a question? What can we do to help get this done?
This truly bothers me. We need the windfarms in Elk county. I don't think that the windmills would be any bigger danger to the area than the oil wells. We used to run cattle on grounds that had oil wells on them, and they look alot worse than the windmills. This really disturbs me.
Larryj - you are right on... exactly.... When I talked with "The Nature Conservancy" - the president went back 30 years ago when there was talk about making all the Flint Hills into a park... I remember how upset my parents were at the thought of a park... but we do now have the park at Cassoday...Wilma - I don't know exactly what we can do ... one of the strong opponents to our wind project is Mr. Devlin. He would like for the commissioners to make it so that no wind farms could be built east of Hwy 99...to protect his ranch and Flint Oak. In his opinion, wind turbines in Eastern Elk County would ruin Flint Oak. He also wanted the commissioners to get a decommission clause with TradeWinds - we are in the process of getting that done. We are not zoned and have no right to dicate what a landowner can or cannot do with his/her land. It is really frustrating - I see the wind project as one of Elk County last hopes to get out of the financial struggles we are in.... it would bring in badly needed finances, new jobs, more families... plus help many of the local businesses that already exist...
I don't know Mr. Devlin, but I know he does good things with his money. Why would he object to a wind farm on the far west side of Elk County when his concerns are on the east side? Is he living in Elk County? Maybe I should back off here as I am sure he pays much more in taxes than I do. But for the record, isn't the welfare of the citizens of Elk County more important than the money from one landowner on the east side? If this wind farm can reduce taxes, shouldn't it be encouraged? Again, if there is anything that I can do, let me know.
I don't believe this is the first one he has objected to.
Mr. Devlin does do nice things for Elk County. His objection to the wind farms (anywhere in the Flint Hills) - 1) they are ugly and belong in Western KS 2) it is not a cost effective means of producing electricity (nuclear is better) 3) we won't get our money from the developer 4) When the farm becomes obsolete we will be left with these ugly costly turbines to get rid of (hence the reason for the decommission agreement) 5) the turbines are harmful to the wildlife. I have also heard from more than one source that Sec of Parks - Mike Hayden is also opposed to them. It is so hard to fight the "big money, politically entrenched". I am encouraged it will still happen...not sure exactly how to fight this battle.
No. 1. They are not ugly. I have been looking forward to maybe being able to see them from my window.
No. 2. Nuclear is better. Maybe, but I feel that it might be more dangerous.
No. 3. Is there a reason to believe that we won't get our money from the developer?
No. 4. How long would it be before the farm becomes obsolete?
No. 5. Harmful to the wildlife? I would like to hear more about that.
I still don't see a reason to not have a wind farm in western Elk County.
I agree Wilma, and it is a crying shame that a single land owner can put the skids to what is perhaps the future in this county. And sorry, but I do not see anyone dictating what a landowner east of 99 highway can do with his property in the future. All to assure that an undisturbed private wildlife habitat can be assured. Very presuptious IMHO!
Another instance of 'beauty being in the eye of the beholder'. I, like you Wilma, love to look at them. I am fascinated by them. I recently saw them in California, can't remember the highway number, but was traveling from Bakersfiled, CA back to LasVegas. Our friend in Bakersfiled told us later that a large windstorm came up and blew one of them down across the highway closing it down for awhile. Fortunately we got on the other side of it before it happened.
Liz: I wonder if Trade Wind Energy would sign an agreement NOT to broach the east side of Highway 99? Actually, I don't think the east side has that many possibilities anyway since there are more landowners, trees, etc. The wind farms I've seen are all located on wide open prairies, such as those found west of Howard.
It's my understanding that if ... and when ... this wind farm is accomplished, the next expansion of Trade Wind might be south, into Cowley County, not east.
I've talked with Mike Hayden and he's like most of the state politicians and Westar officials ... a bit hesitant to put his name on the line as a supporter of this project. But I'll stay on his case. I DO know that he has heard from the project opponents.
I think one of the fears that the Devlins might have is the potential of wind farm propagation. If you go to the website <http://www.kansasenergy.org/wind_projects.htm> you could get really paranoid about how much of our Kansas landscape might be dotted by wind farms in future years. However, few of them will materialize. Most are only proposals for feasibility studies. And, yes, there's one listed near Elk City, but so far it's only a far fetched idea. Those looking at the project don't even know if it would be in Elk, Chautauqua or Montgomery County.
TradeWind has no desire to develop east of Hwy 99 - there is a group of developers that put a proposal in to Westar for a site E of Hwy 99 but according to the wind data - the wind over there is not very good, much like it is in CQ county. As far as the life of the project - we have a PILOT agreement for 20 years renewable after that. I have heard 20 years is the likely life but what was the expected life of nuclear plants? As far as Tradewind paying us the money - it is as good as the paper it is written on. No one can predict it. Most of these developers are LLC and could be gone tomorrow. We all know there are only 2 guarantees in life! As far as wildlife, you can make various arguments for or against this. Most are concerned about the prairie chicken - which we haven't had them around for a very long time. There is talk that the transmission lines affect the migration of various birds, but again they are already there.
Thank you, Liz. I still can't see a reason to not have the wind farm ------ as long as I can see the towers with the propellers going around.
I can see where the windfarm would benefit the county. Personaly I think they are kinda ugly, and wouldn't want any on my land. But that is just me.
From what I've read, a big advantage of a wind farm is that it HAS NO TIME LIMIT for decommissioning. It's not like a nuclear plant or a coal facility, both of which develop potential dangers as they get older.
These wind turbines are constantly replaced as they develop problems, with no long-term dangers to the local area or environment.
But I'm no expert. I recommend finding reliable sources for information on wind energy.
For news and events related to wind energy in Kansas:
http://www.kansasenergy.org/wind.htm (http://www.kansasenergy.org/wind.htm)
For additional information on wind energy in Kansas and in general:
http://www.kansasenergy.org/wind_resources.htm (http://www.kansasenergy.org/wind_resources.htm)
Please keep in mind the biases of the information source. The same statistics and research can be selectively used to support a multitude of "reports". It all depends on what the funding organizations pre-existing ideals and positions are.
I think Tom Devlin should turn his old bank building into offices for our new wind farm and it employees, they may even hire some of the folks thatTom laid off from Flint Oak.
I like your line of thinking! Weldome aboard.
Peanut - do you know Mickey Wunderlich....
Yes, I know Mr. Wunderlich.
I have seen what happens to a small town when something new comes to that town. there is stimulation to both economy and moral. Sadly I have also seen what happens when a large business leaves after forcing smaller businesses out because they could not compete, that town is left with its citizens driving to the next large town or city to do there shopping and earn there living. But all is not bad like srping comes after winter so does new growth just not as fast as the seasons. I dont think that these wind farms are a here one day gone the next... If we get them. I think they are a great opportunity and am just a little appauld that one person thinks that he should speak for an entire community.
I think it would be a good idea for Elk Konnected to host a big meeting (I'm talking huge, rally size) and invite Trade Wind Energy leaders to answer questions AND allow them to see the support they've got here in Elk County. If such a meeting could be arranged, I truly believe we could get the governor to come and express his own support for the project.
I also think invitations should go to Wichita TV media and Westar Energy officials. It might also be a good time for the Devlins to come and explain their opposition to the wind farm. I'm sure they have some definite points they could effectively make.
All I know is that I'm getting a churning gut thinking about this thing. And, I'm proud of the way the Elk County Commissioners addressed this situation at their most recent meeting. (See the following excerpt from the May 26 meeting)
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Commissioner Hendricks reported visiting with Matt Gilhousen of Tradewind Energy and learning that Westar would not be purchasing energy from Tradewind because of perceived environmental issues. Hendricks said she had learned one issue was not having a Decommissioning Agreement in place and another was a group wanting the County to place a moratorium on wind projects east of Kansas Highway 99. County Attorney Marla Foster Ware had informed Hendricks that since Elk County is not zoned, that could not legally be done. Hendricks had obtained a generic Decommissioning Agreement from Gilhousen and will have the County Attorney review it before the next Commissioner meeting.
June 8th Agenda
The Commissioners instructed the County Clerk to place reviewing the Flint Oak tax emption and the Decommissioning Agreement with Caney River Wind Project, LLC on the agenda for the next meeting.
Yes, that is a great idea. What better thing to promote Elk county? Thanks Rudy for your input.
Liz... :-*I would like to thank you for all of the hard work you are doing in trying to bring this wind farm to our county! And I agree with Peanut, one person that is evidently tax exempt should not dictate what's good for this county! I am not tax exempt and I pay my taxes and if nothing else maybe it should be put to a vote by ALL county residents. I for one am damn sure for it! ----MR. KSHILLBILLY
Mr. taylor is spot on ! I for one like the idea of this meeting. At the very least people will come come away informed and have an opportunity to express there concerns and desires.
Matt Gilhousen of Tradewind Energy will be a speaker on the Elk County Livestock tour tomorrow morning. I'll post the map and announcement in the Annoucement section. This might be a good opportunity to ask questions and learn something, as well.
The Elk County Farm Bureau also has invited Mr. Gilhousen to speak at the FBA annual meeting in August. He hasn't confirmed the invitation, but if he should agree to be the speaker, he could provide an update of what transpires between now and mid-August.
These local appearances should provide good opportunities for local residents to ask questions. I'll try to get there Wednesday for the tour but not sure I can make it.