Arrogant Americans, Mr. President?
Peter Heck - Guest Columnist -
4/14/2009 7:50:00 AM
As I was sitting in church waiting for the start of the service, my grandpa came walking towards me pointing his finger. No matter how old I get, and no matter how long he's been out of the U.S. Navy, that's still an intimidating sight. As he approached me, his voice quivered as he said, "We saved that continent twice...how dare my president apologize for this country's arrogance." My grandpa is right. Americans need not apologize to the world for their arrogance; rather, Americans should apologize to their forefathers for the arrogance of their president.
Barack Obama's first foreign trip as President of the United States has confirmed the naiveté so many of us feared during t he election cycle. But worse than that, it has also demonstrated that our president suffers from either a complete misunderstanding of our heritage and history, or an utter contempt for it. Neither is excusable.
Garnering cheers from the French of all people, President Obama declared, "In America, there is a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive." Consider that Obama spoke these words just 500 miles from the beaches of Normandy, where the sand is still stained with 65-year-old blood of "arrogant Americans."
Indeed, columnist Mark Whittington observes, "One should remind Mr. Obama and the Europeans how America has 'shown arrogance' by saving Europe from itself innumerable times in the 20th Century. World War I, World War II, the Cold War, and the wars in the Balkans were largely resolved by American blood, treasure, and leadership." But all that appears lost on the president's seemingly insatiable quest to mend fences he imagines have been tarnished by the bullish George W. Bush.
If Obama wishes to continue trampling the presidential tradition of showing class to former office holders and publicl y trash Bush for his own personal gain, so be it. But all Americans should make clear that no man - even if he is the president - will tarnish the legacy of those Americans who have gone before us. Ours is not a history of arrogance. It is a history of courage, self-sacrifice, and honor.
When abusive monarchs repressed the masses, Americans resisted and overthrew them. When misguided policies led to the unjust oppression of fellow citizens, Americans rebelled and overturned them. When millions of impoverished and destitute wretches sought a new beginning, Americans threw open the door and welcomed them. When imperial dictators were on the march, Americans surrendered their lives to stop them. When communist thugs threatened world peace, Americans bled to defeat them. When an entire continent was overwhelmed with famine and hunger, Americans gave of themselves to sustain it. When terrorist madmen killed the innocent and subjugated
millions, Americans led the fight to topple them.
This is the legacy that generations of Americans have left. If President Obama seeks stronger relations with the world community, perhaps he should begin by reminding them of these very truths, rather than condemning his own countrymen on foreign shores.
This "obsessive need to put down his own country," has caused blog ger James Lewis to call President Obama a "stunningly ignorant man" who has evidently never spoken to a concentration camp survivor, a Cuban refugee, a boat person from Vietnam, a Soviet dissident, or a survivor of Mao's purges.
Unfortunately, I can no longer bring myself to give Mr. Obama that benefit of the doubt. Not after looking at the pain in my grandpa's eyes...a man who still carries shrapnel in his body from his service to this country.
As a student and teacher of history, I recognize that America has made mistakes...plenty of them, in fact. But one of the great things about our people has been their courage and humility in admitting and correcting those mistakes. God willing, they will prove that willingness again in four years and correct the mistake that is the presidency of Barack Obama.
So only Repubs. spilled blood willingly for their country? ???
Silly me, but I didn't catch the word REPUBLICAN in that column...
And why do you think that the rest of the world thinks that Americans are arrogant?
Ok, then, how about "conservative" or Pro Obama or something that portrays only a few loyal patriots. Every possible kind of person shed blood over there. Did you ever hear the phrase "Ugly American"? I've sure seen a few when I've been oversees. ( Frankly, the worst were the German tourists... loud and very pushy.) It's politics! In no way do I think he, or Pres. Bush or any other President would be out to embarrass us intentionally. He and Pres. Bush have totally different personalities. Should we isolate ourselves from the world and peer out at everyone through gun slits? Or should we try to be part of the open world? Confidence and arrogance are two different things. We are and should always be a straight, tall, shoulders back, and confident people. Arrogance is an ugly word.
I don't think America is arrogant at all. I think we are a wonderful country who are always at the ready to go and HELP others. Mr. O is the one who said we were arrogant. He's the one making excuses.
I stand by my statement. Some Americans are indeed very arrogant. I don't think arrogance is a good word no matter who uses it including any American President. It's politics!
1 : exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner <an arrogant official>
2 : proceeding from or characterized by arrogance <an arrogant reply>
synonyms see proud
I am very PROUD to be an American....guess that makes me arrogant too!
This thread causes my thoughts to swirl and I am not sure anyone else is willing to debate this for the time necessary to do it justice. Most of the threads here die without the full in depth discussion. I am not pointing fingers, I am guilty too.
Arrogant Americans goes to a major issue of how to handle foreign policy. It doesn't matter if we are or not that is how we are perceived by much of the rest of the world. Much of managing a situation is not managing reality it is managing everyone's perceptions
The world sees us as arrogant. We need to deal with that. If we have to admit our mistakes and maybe show a conciliatory respect, I am all for it if it helps further our standing and perception in the world.
David
That is what I have heard and read about how the rest of the world sees Americans. I think maybe they have a good reason to think that. After watching some of our TV shows that the rest of the world is also seeing, that is the image that they could be picking up. I think some Americans are arrogant in the way they interact with other countries. Unfortunately these are the ones that are remembered.
If apologizing for the arrogance of some Americans establishes a better relationship, then let it be.
Frankly, if the world sees america as arrogant, then let it be. Surely they wouldn't want to do business with those arrogant americans. And of course they would never want us to be the first ones called when help is needed.
If they think us arrogant then to hell with them. I am not about to apologize for being american, or our way of life. If those socialist buggers across the pond don't like that...oh well.
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on April 26, 2009, 08:39:42 PM
Frankly, if the world sees america as arrogant, then let it be. Surely they wouldn't want to do business with those arrogant americans. And of course they would never want us to be the first ones called when help is needed.
If they think us arrogant then to hell with them. I am not about to apologize for being american, or our way of life. If those socialist buggers across the pond don't like that...oh well.
Billy, I understand your feelings. I have heard it before and probably said similar things. If that is your foreign policy stance, don't expect me to support your nomination to the State department. Plenty of good spots for you though, just not as a diplomat. Don't read this with too serious of a mind. :)
David
;D
State Department, Hell,...I want to be president. 8)
I don't thin----kkkk so! ;D
kkkk???
What?
I don't thin----kkkk so!-sixdogsmom
whats with the kkkk?
President of what? Your own personal country, full of people who all think just like you? Heck, I'd never be allowed to visit! ;D
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on April 26, 2009, 08:39:42 PM
Frankly, if the world sees america as arrogant, then let it be. Surely they wouldn't want to do business with those arrogant americans. And of course they would never want us to be the first ones called when help is needed.
If they think us arrogant then to hell with them. I am not about to apologize for being american, or our way of life. If those socialist buggers across the pond don't like that...oh well.
A perfect example of arrogance.
^^what she said. If a person could have possibly created a perfect example to match the definition that would be it.
Screw it Billy, I'd vote for ya! I know you can't be any WORSE than what we have now! You probably even have more experience!
And it looks as though as someone thinks Obama is arrogant...How can that be? Arrogance is a HORRIBLE thing!! LOL
Fred Thompson: Obama Loosed 'Dogs of War' on CIA
Sunday, April 26, 2009 4:45 PM
By: Jim Meyers
Former Senator, TV star and presidential candidate Fred Thompson tells Newsmax that President Barack Obama is revealing his "naivete, ineptitude and arrogance" as he deals with matters of national security.
The Tennessee Republican, who now hosts a radio show on Westwood One along with his wife Jeri, also said the "dogs of war have been loosed" over left-wing attempts to single out Bush-era officials for prosecution relating to the treatment of detainees.
Newsmax.TV's Ashley Martella cited the announcement that the Defense Department is going to release many pictures showing alleged abuse by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and asked Thompson what purpose that might serve.
"None, other than to serve as propaganda tools for our worst enemies," Thompson said.
See Video: Fred Thompson Slams Obama's National Security Debacle - Click Here Now
"This was set in motion when the president first decided to release" CIA memos on interrogation techniques used on terrorist suspects, Thompson told Newsmax.
"There was no purpose in doing that except to make him look good internationally and to the left wing here at home," he said. "It did a lot of damage.
"In one stroke of a pen he declassified top-secret documents that people would otherwise go to jail for releasing. It gave al-Qaida and the Taliban a blueprint as to the outer limits of our interrogation techniques.
"We have to remember that [the techniques were used] in the aftermath of 9/11. Congress was briefed on these techniques. Some of them asked if they were really going far enough to get what they needed to get, and it was approved at high levels in the administration.
"They carefully crafted them as best they could to not go too far, and to provide safeguards when they were carrying out these admittedly rough techniques on these people who had this vital information.
"So now we're really talking about a war crimes tribunal, which this country has never done. We've never brought to criminal court prior administrations in this country.
"Harry Truman could have been accused of war crimes, I suppose, for dropping the bombs. President Obama authorized the killing of those three [pirates] in the Indian Ocean not too long ago. Prosecuting these people under these circumstances is something you hear about in banana republics and third-world countries, not the United States of America.
"The president's opened up a terrible Pandora's Box and there's going to be a price to pay before this thing is ended."
Martella asked if the Obama administration was acquiescing to its far-left base when it released the CIA memos on interrogation techniques.
"I think in this case, in all probability, they thought that they could cater to their left wing, appease their demands, by releasing these memos and then it might not go any further," Thompson said.
"Because surely they were able to see that this was bad for them the way it's going to be bad for the country.
"This is going to have ramifications that are far-reaching. They thought they could put the genie back in the bottle after they opened it, and of course appeasement never works that way.
"There was a firestorm. The attorney general's received 250 names in a petition to urge the appointment of a special prosecutor for this. The left-wing blogs went nuts. They started running television ads and so forth.
"And then after promising that there would be no prosecutions, [Obama] acquiesced and now opened the door for that. So I think it's a case of naivete, ineptitude and unbelievable arrogance and lack of experience.
"We elected someone who didn't have two minutes' worth of experience with regard to matters concerning national security. Now he's cast in this position and he's making decisions that are going to have far-reaching ramifications not only abroad, and not only with our enemies, but in dividing our country even further here at home in ways I don't think we've ever been divided before.
"We're going to have members of Congress testifying against each other if they go down this road."
Martella noted that Rep. Peter King of New York has said that if Democrats do go ahead and attempt to prosecute Bush administration CIA interrogation lawyers, the Republicans should "go to war" with them.
"That just gives you an example of the atmosphere on Capitol Hill today," Thompson observed.
"People are angry. People are upset. You've got people on the left, you've got the Democrats talking about truth commissions, talking about investigations and Congressional hearings and urging prosecution. They're fighting among each other on the Democratic side as to just how they should go and how far they should go."
Some of these Democrats are "the same people who were briefed on these techniques back in 2002," Thompson said, "including Nancy Pelosi, who's not telling the truth now, who's trying to parse words and trying to get around the fact that she knew what was going on, as others did back when this happened.
"That creates a new level of animosity like I've never seen before, and I served in the Senate for eight years. The dogs of war have been loosed in this country and I don't know what is going to happen before we see the end of it. But none of it's going to be good."
Thompson's radio show is heard on weekdays from noon to 2 p.m.
Oh, because he's an authority on being arrogant?
I don't like arrogance in any leader, at least not in the sense that most of us define it. Not sure how it moves anything forward.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on April 27, 2009, 06:41:37 AM
President of what? Your own personal country, full of people who all think just like you? Heck, I'd never be allowed to visit! ;D
No. President of the United States of America. The absolute, hands down, best damn Country in the World!! I realize that that opinion might not be shared by everyone here or in office.
KShillbilly, you're right, I do have more expirence, I served my country for 6 years, obama only did 4.
A perfect example of arrogance.
[/quote]
Thank you wilma, I do try to do my best.
Quote from: jerry wagner on April 27, 2009, 09:00:26 AM
^^what she said. If a person could have possibly created a perfect example to match the definition that would be it.
I don't know jerry, you could possibly be runner up for this one.
What does Fred Thompson know? He couldn't get elected to the presidency.
He didn't get elected to the Presidency and a lot of others didn't either. Wasn't because no one wanted them, they just didn't have ACORN helping them out by getting homeless and dead people to vote.
A lot of people don't get re-elected either, whether in city, county, state or federal governments. Once people realize they aren't worth a s**t, they get booted out too!
Thank you Billy for serving this Country. God Bless YOU!A lot of people around here, including myself, can't say that they served their country like you did! I thank you and even the Democrats thank you, for keeping us safe and helping in giving us the freedom to express our many different points of view. ;D
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on April 27, 2009, 05:32:26 PM
A perfect example of arrogance.
Thank you wilma, I do try to do my best.
Quote from: jerry wagner on April 27, 2009, 09:00:26 AM
^^what she said. If a person could have possibly created a perfect example to match the definition that would be it.
I don't know jerry, you could possibly be runner up for this one.
[/quote]
Why because I dared to question you? Or was it simply because I pointed out how your post appeared to illustrate the definition of arrogance.
Quote from: jerry wagner on April 27, 2009, 06:43:42 PM
Why because I dared to question you? Or was it simply because I pointed out how your post appeared to illustrate the definition of arrogance.
Jerry, I have no problem with people questioning me, makes for lively debate. I simply stated my opinion and feelings on the matter and was called arrogant for doing so. All I am saying is to be careful, YOU may be labeled for stating yours.
I may be labeled for stating mine.... interesting statement :P
Now, listen, boys, I am the most arrogant person in the world. How dare you question me as to what arrogance is? :angel:
Wilma, you're a saint compared to some! :angel:
Back to the topic.....it is embarrassing that our president ( gads that sticks in my craw) is going around and saying these things...
First it's shaking hands and making nice with Chavez (and helping Amazon.com's book sales from that), then it's opening talks with Castro's Cuba, closing Gitmo, Now he's apologizing to FRANCE... (who didn't support us at all) ..for OUR arrogance?
Ha! That's rich!
Let's see now. Supporting Amazon provides jobs so that's good for business and Cuba has sugar and good cigars. Sounds like good business to me now that corn is going into ethanol instead of corn syrup.
I will apologize for being an arrogant American when France, Germany, England, and all of the other countries that we rebuilt after WWII, pay their war debts back to the American people in full.
I thought we forgave those debts years ago. No?
Diane that makes it even worse. We forgive their debts and they call us arrogant, We sacriface our service men and women and they look down their noses at us? That two-bit fraud of a president we have shakes hands with some of the worlds worst human rights violators and you call that good business?
And we are the ones that get accused of torture. Boy, it's a good thing they didn't waterboard him, then they would really be in trouble!! :P
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6201333.ece
Why does the rest of the world think Americans are arrogant?
Billy, Yuk! Somebody may lose his head for letting that get out. But you are generalizing again, Billy. Not everybody does that kind of thing. Should I say all priests abuse little boys? All men kill their wives? All women gossip? ;D All prisoners were water boarded? All women who were inconvenienced by an unwanted pregnancy aborted the baby? No, of course not. There is a lot of generalizing on the political threads. I may do it too. How about "fair and balanced", even Fox claims to do that. I'm not near as big an Obama fan as you think I am, but he's facing a number of monetary challenges that are like nothing we've ever seen before. I don't think there is a "Right" answer. It's going to be trial and error until somebody gets it working. He will make mistakes. Please don't assume that anyone anywhere that jumps in front of a camera and a mike represents the whole of their population. Not everyone looks down their noses at us. Our president does represent us in the world, but there are other "leaders" who are hated by most of their countrymen. Sometimes being a statesman means getting your hands dirty. It's politics. Perhaps they shouldn't have allowed photo ops. Keep in mind the media can create as much public feeling as the politicians do. Perhaps Pres. Bush made the world feel we were an arrogant country?
I was not generalizing, I was just wondering why there isn't much outcry on this. Monteray Challenges..the Great Depression, the recession in the 70's..we've been here before. Yes our president does represet us to the rest of the world, so why is he apologizing for things we didn't do? Why is he bowing to leaders that allow this kind of thing? Why is he "reaching out" to those leaders that hate us?
I know that so-called reporters do not represent the whole population. I never said that they did.
Why does "bowing" push your button so easily? Pres. Bush shook hands with people he didn't care for either, I'm sure.
And president Bush was photographed kissing that same king. Where is the outcry about that?
Holy Cow, did Bush come out of the closet?
Shaking hands is a symbol of or mutual greeting between two equals.
Kissing of the cheek is also a greeting.
Bowing is a show of respect, humilaty, and of being inferior to someone or thing.
How about "submissive" rather than inferior. International protocol can be really tricky! I'm glad I don't have to memorize it all. I'd insult somebody for sure!
Okay, so why then would the president of the United States show "submissivness" to a foregin power?
To bad Nobama didn't think about insulting anyone when he went on his apologizing trip.
My dictionary says that "to bow" is a sign of respect, greeting or shame. I don't find humility, inferior or submissive anywhere. IMHO it was a bow of respect which all leaders everywhere should show to each other. Perhaps Obama's bow of "respect" will have a chain reaction resulting in greater respect for each other all over the world.
Quote from: Wilma on May 01, 2009, 01:45:35 PM
Perhaps Obama's bow of "respect" will have a chain reaction resulting in greater respect for each other all over the world.
:o :o :o For Real...I mean are you serious? Have you seen the worlds reaction to him? If they laugh any harder they are going to rupture something!!
And why does the world have this attitude?
Because they see him for the weak and pathetic leader that he is.
Hey, this attitude towards Americans started way before anyone had ever heard of Obama. I have heard it most of my life.
Quote from: Wilma on May 01, 2009, 02:01:46 PM
Hay, this attitude towards Americans started way before anyone had ever heard of Obama. I have heard it most of my life.
Then why are you asking about it?
Quote from: Wilma on May 01, 2009, 01:54:17 PM
And why does the world have this attitude?
Apparently so has obama, even worse he agrees with it. Why else would that snake go on a world tour to apologize for our arrogance? As for the rest of the world, at least with previous adminstrations (not all but many) when we were threatened, that threat was answered with more than just meaningless talk and speeches.
Where do you see all this ''Laughing at Obama" that I never see? and I don't mean second hand from someone else. Do you have TV channels that I don't get?
Iran...N. Korea missles...taliban activity in pakistan increasing. Doesn't look like they are taking nobamas promise to keep us safe and go after terrorists very seriously.
You haven't answered my question. Why does the world see us the way they do and don't say because of Obama. I have already answered that one.
Wilma, I would say that large portion of the worlds view stems from jealously, religous views, and a large portion didn't really care for the recent ass kicking they got!
Billy, our military doesn't owe me an explanation about what they are doing to keep us safe. I wish there wasn't so much talk about it. Loose lips and all that. I have no idea what they are doing, if anything but surveillance, in regard to N.Korea. Let's not bite off more than we can chew. I think Pakistan is doing a good job with the Taliban on its own. Iran is cooling down in fits and starts. Afghanistan is a worry according to some friends who recently came home from there. Maybe we can turn the Kurds loose on them. ;)
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 01, 2009, 03:56:18 PM
Wilma, I would say that large portion of the worlds view stems from jealously, religous views, and a large portion didn't really care for the recent ass kicking they got!
And this all started
after Obama became president?
NO IT DIDN'T START AFTER oBAMA WAS ELECTED, AS I HAVE POINTED OUT TIME AND AGAIN THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID!!!
But he sure as hell isn't doing anything about it, other than agreeing with it!
And you expect him to cure what has been years in the making. Can't you give him a reasonable length of time? Didn't you get a chance to prove that you could do your job?
Wilma........... you can't really be asking these questions with a serious look on your face...
Because when I read them..I certainly don't have one on my face..
in fact.. I have chuckled out loud... ;D
Either you really do like what he stands for..or you are just stirring the pot to see what boils over.... 8)
and what would you consider a reasonable length of time?
And how much more damage does he have to do before you figure it out?
Wilma, earlier you posted "I did not vote for him" but with every reply you uphold him and give all kinds of excuses for what he has done and is doing. How can you justify all of the "UnAmerican" things he says and does? Not one time has he said or done anything that shows he wants our country to be the strong unified people that he was elected to protect.
Damn -- he just irritates me to the very core of my being. How can you stand behind one, such as he?
I did not vote for Obama. I did not think he was the best choice for president, but I am willing to give him a chance. One hundred days is not a good chance. He has earned four years in the white house and unless he does something that he can be impeached for, he deserves the respect that the office of the President of the United States carries with it. That respect has been sorely abused in the past years. Maybe that is why other countries seem to despise us. But Obama has not done anything....yet, that constitutes the crimes that would incur impeachment. Is this country losing the patriotism and loyalty that we had in the 40's and 50's? Seems we no longer respect anything. Seems we no longer have faith in anything. Seems we no longer trust anything. It is not good. How can anybody perform their duties under the disrespect and continuous criticism that the president is receiving from every direction? I certainly wouldn't be able to work under a boss that treated me that way.
All I am asking is that our president be given an honest chance to prove what he can or cannot do. He is after all, our president, the highest ranking elected official in the United States. If the citizens of the United States do not show respect for him and our country, why should other countries respect him or us? I don't call it respect when he is blamed for problems that started before he even announced for office and those problems can't be solved in 100 days, six months, maybe not even in twelve months. We helped get the country in the shape it is in by not putting the brakes on a long time ago. Opposing everything that is tried does not help. It isn't necessary to blindly support everything either. But somewhere in the middle there should be someway to support our government. After all, a lot of our government officials have been there a long, long time. Maybe too long.
Yes, Teresa, I have been goading Billy. He is a bit radical and I have been trying to get him to back up some of the claims he makes.
Jo, I am not supporting him. I am just trying to support the country that I am a citizen of. He was elected to the office. Can't do anything about that now, so why not try to be a little more understanding? This continuous dragging him down in public and that is what this forum is, is only fueling those in other countries that are looking for a reason to hate us. Time will tell. He will never be the greatest president we ever had, because that one is already dead, but he deserves as much of a chance as our other presidents have had.
Billy, what damage has he done and is it any worse than what we do by ranting about the sad shape our government is in, especially where it can be read by our enemies. We do have freedom of speech but maybe that speech should be tempered a bit.
Now, I have a basketball game to get back to if it isn't over.
How many other countries, our enemies as you call them, get on this forum and give a crap about what the hicks of Elk County, Kansas have to say about Barack Obama? I hope this is not taken any other way than how I've said it. We all know that Elk County is not a gateway to the rest of the world. It's not Al Jazeera tv...I don't think Osama bin Laden is keeping too close of tabs on what we are saying. If he wants to know what's going on here, he can just contact the White House but he doesn't care about our 2 cents....
Hillbilly, you might just be surprised how wide our comments are spread. I was shocked a couple of times to google something and a comment by a forum member came up. When it is blogged, it is out there guys.
I googled this particular thread on the internet and didn't find it. What exactly were you googling so I can look for it too?
Are we famous yet? :laugh:
Well I'm unable to find anything unless you type in Elk County, Elk County Forum or cascity and I'm not gonna take time to go through and search all the threads on here and look for it. I still don't think Osama bin Laden gives a crap about what we're talking about. We are very small time to him!
Quote from: Wilma on May 01, 2009, 08:41:43 PM
We helped get the country in the shape it is in by not putting the brakes on a long time ago. Opposing everything that is tried does not help. It isn't necessary to blindly support everything either. But somewhere in the middle there should be someway to support our government. After all, a lot of our government officials have been there a long, long time. Maybe too long.
I myself don't have a problem with him until he does something to errode our constitution of which his socialist plan is nothing but a continuous erosion.
Why don't i trust our Government, because no one should trust government. Even our forefathers said that government cannot be trusted and put in place the constitution and bill of rights to chain government down. Why don't i trust politicians? Because they don't deserve my trust nor do they deserve my respect. Zell miller is one such man. But hes no longer a politician. The rest of them on capitol hill haven't done anything to earn my respect or trust.
Obama hasn't done anything to earn my respect. When he follows the constitution to the letter, and stops trying to shove socialism down our throats then i'll start respecting him. I still see him as one of the most dangerous threats to this country that we have ever faced.
Respect is earned it is not taken or given by default. IF a man won't stand by his word he's worthless and obama has already broken his word countless times in the first 100 days.
Wilma, you want to talk about respect? Okay, lets talk...Lets talk about how a Real American Hero, John McCain, was made fun of during the campaign because of his war injuries. Lets talk about how our "Democratic" leadership contunially tries to erode the Rights of the American people by tearing down the Constitution (fairness doctrine, gun control, and ignoring the 10th admendment). Lets talk about how obama is pushing for the dissolution of our National Sovereignty with his support of things like the North American Union and OAS treaty. You're right wilma, respect is sorely lacking in this country.
I would have more respect for obama he would just come out and say that he was going to make America a socialist country. he won't do that because he knows that "real" americans wouldn't stand for it, so instead he does it on the sly. Where's the respect in that? My definition of respect may be different from yours, but I believe that if you respect someone you don't lie to them. Nobama has lied more time than I can count. During the campagin when obama said, "I'm not coming after your guns" many people took that at face value. They believed that there wouldn't be any more gun control laws passed, the assualt weapons ban wouldn't be put back in place, and that taxes on ammo and such would remain the same. Those people were proven wrong. What obama should've said (if he wanted to be truthful) was "I may not be coming after your guns, but I am going to make it harder for you to own more". Where was the respect when during the campagin obama accused middle america conservatives of "clinging to thier guns, God, and Bible" Where is the respect when his administration accuses American veterans, and anyone that doesn't support him of being domestic terrorists?
And you accuse me of being disrespectful?
You want obama to be given an honest chance to prove what he can do. I believe it was Warph, who posted a thread "the mistakes made during the first 100 days" have you read it? If not you should. obama has already proven that he lacks the leadership and expirence nessecary to govern a country. When he released the "torture" memos and told our interrogators that they have to confine their methods to the army field manuals, he just didn't hamstring them, he neutered them. he made them irrelevant. Our enemies now know just how far our interrogators can and cannot go. Before at least we could use fear as a tool, now however, we cannot even insult them. They are laughing at us. Our troops in Basic Training will undergo more stress than the prisoners we take.
You wondered where was the loyalty and patriotism of the 40's and 50's? I would ask that same question of our elected officals. Bear in mind it was during that time that the Progressive movement (which is just another name for Marxism) really got going. Where is the loyality to the American People? to the Constitution?
Excuse me for being a bit "radical" but I will not just stand idly by and watch my country being torn down any longer. I have shed blood, mine and others, for this country, how much more loyalty do you need?
A politician lied during a campaign? I can't believe you fell for that. I didn't believe anything he promised, simply because he didn't have the experience or knowledge to know whether or not it could be done. It isn't my fault that you and I are smarter than the majority of this country.
I still say he is due the respect of the office he holds simply because he was elected to it by the majority. What has happened to the American Way? Especially innocent until proven guilty. Oh, maybe that isn't a part of the constitution.
Other countries are listening, expecially the ones that would like to drag us down. They have probably decided to just wait and watch us do it to ourselves.
The American way?? What exactly is you definiton of the american way?
Quote from: Wilma on May 02, 2009, 06:54:59 AM
I still say he is due the respect of the office he holds simply because he was elected to it by the majority.
A vast majority of Germans supported Hitler, did he deserve respect simply because of his office?
Or are your questions just more "goading"?
Now,now-------!! :(
Don't you "now, now" me. I asked an honest question about her post. I am merely asking her to explain, unless there is a rule around here that states only she (and others that agree with her) are allowed to do that.
Wilma deserves respect as does anyone else on this forum, that was what I meant Billy.
How was I being disrespectful to her? She admitted to goading, I was merely asking a question.
I agree with Billy. I see no disrespect in his question, I would like to see it answered.
Billy, a Democratic election was held and Obama won. Why is that not the American way. Sour grapes? There will always be people who will say that George W stole the election because he did not win the popular vote. It too was a Democratic election. Where does this end? Or does it ever? Will we spend the next four years, every day, listening to Pres. Obama being picked apart? Would you have tolerated that if every single day someone picked at George Bush with such venom? Republicans demanded respect for him simply because he was the President. He wasn't expected to prove himself every day. He did what he did and life went on. I didn't agree with his wire tapping without a warrant nor his use of executive privilege to get around congress, but I would never sink to the ugly name calling that I hear now. Bush and Obama belong to the same club...American Presidents. Why dishonor either by having opinions on things we can only know second hand. Billy, again with the Hitler thing. That's a turn off for me.
What she said! ;)
Okay, let me make sure I got this right. You're saying that just because of his office we are supposed to just accept what he says and does without complaint or dissent? Have I got that right? Because if I do then why don't we just do away with the 1st admendment, afterall what do we need with Freedom of Speech anyway? And in case you missed, Bush was picked at daily, and a lot worse. I don't see any books mocking obamas speech patterns, do you? As far as proving himself, the left was screaming about not catching Osama a month after we went to war. I didn't agree with the executive orders then, now, or before. The same club...more like American Tyrants.
I have an opinion on what I see obama doing to this country. I don't need anyone telling me how he is running down my country. As far as the Hitler thing, sorry, but it fits.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 02, 2009, 10:06:56 AM
Would you have tolerated that if every single day someone picked at George Bush with such venom?
George W. got picked apart every single day by the main stream media. You hear nothing negative about Pres Obama from the main stream media. And why would the comment that Hitler was elected by the majority of the people be a turn off? It's a fact. He was no doubt an evil man, but he was supported by the majority of people in Germany. Don't be afraid or turned off by facts, it weakens your ability to debate.
As teacher, I did not like anybody picking on George's speech problems (remember you brought it up) he couldn't help his slip tonguing anymore than anyone else who does it. My own sister does it and hers can be pretty funny. It seems that every time someone wants to take a cheap shot at ANYBODY, they try to make a Hitler connection. It doesn't impress me. It's not my fault the German people were duped until they were so afraid they didn't do anything. (I'll tell you who scared me...Rumsfeld! Even Pres. Bush eventually got rid of him.) Let me know if you think Pres. Obama is taking over the local police, or if certain religious or ethnic groups start to disappear and we'll talk again. I think his economic policy is risky, but I don't hear any workable ideas from the other side. The Repubs. seem to be disconnected and doing a lot of playground name calling, but I sure don't hear much positive counter point. And yes, I do watch Fox and listen to Hannity and sometimes Rush as well as CNN and others.
Me too, I try to get information from everywhere. I used to be a great fan of Rush Limbaugh until he became so abusive. I still tune in now and again. And yes, I listen to Fox as well as CNN, but it is obvious that the owner of Fox news still has that tabloid mentality. But that is what has made him a multi-billionair. He would be on the other side of the fence if he thought it were profitable. I like to watch Bill Mahr even though I think he is very disrespectful to many people. However he makes me think and always includes people from all sides of an issue in his round table discussions. And I certainly do not always agree with him. Being in lockstep with any idea, group, or media is extremely dangerous IMHO, that is how extremist movements take root. I don't think that could happen in the near future in this country, there are too many people who still remember the last world war.
What's the fascination with Rush, Hannity & Fox?
These guys are a little nteresting, but they represent
a more "republican view", than the opinion of the
conservative Americans.
Did I just learn something new? I thought the conservatives WERE Republican. I did hear Hannity the other day talking about the "Radicals" and that bothered me a bit. I do try to listen to a lot of different view points when I can find something that isn't just rude insults and name calling. Some of the stuff is just plain sophomoric and inflammatory.
Diane I think most of these folks were supporting Ron Paul.
Ah,I see.
You thought conservatives were Republicans?
You're probably from a Republican background yourself
and you do not seem to be a bit conservative.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 02, 2009, 12:08:09 PM
(remember you brought it up)
Actually, you did when you implied that he wasn't "picked on daily"
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 02, 2009, 12:08:09 PM
It seems that every time someone wants to take a cheap shot at ANYBODY, they try to make a Hitler connection.
Whose taking a cheap shot, that is an honest comparison.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 02, 2009, 12:08:09 PM
It's not my fault the German people were duped until they were so afraid they didn't do anything.
Diane, maybe they were just trusting Hitler to know what he was doing, and didn't want to tear him down on a daily basis? Of course, if they had spoken out when he first came to power they may actually have had a chance. Instead, they chose to just give him the respect due to his office.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 02, 2009, 12:08:09 PM
Let me know if you think Pres. Obama is taking over the local police,
Nobama himself stated that we cannot rely on law enforcment alone, that we needed a private police just as well funded, trained, and just as well armed. Bears a striking ressemblance to the Nazi party if you ask me.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 02, 2009, 12:08:09 PM
I think his economic policy is risky, but I don't hear any workable ideas from the other side. The Repubs. seem to be disconnected and doing a lot of playground name calling, but I sure don't hear much positive counter point. And yes, I do watch Fox and listen to Hannity and sometimes Rush as well as CNN and others.
The Repubs. did offer counter points, in the form of tax cuts and downsizing the gov't, obama rejected them as "ideas that haven't worked in the past 8 years" while ignoring the FACT they worked during the Regan years. The Rebubs. were willing to extend the hand of bipartisianship to obama and he turned them down flat. Hannity, Rush, Beck, Gibson, Ingram have all offered positive steps the gov't could take, not only did the left turn them down, they mocked them as well as their listners with toilet humor and name calling, even went so far as to suggest they were terrorists.
Lord.... I'm glad I stayed out of this thread :-X
Diane, you said that slavery is not a Christian ideal.
Socialism is much more widespread in this country than
slavery ever was.
We are not considered a Christian nation
these days. Dependency from the Fed's does not
seem to be a very good ideal -ya think?
Billy, I gotta call you on one. When I said "remember you brought it up" you attached that to my comments about his speech patterns. I said I don't like people being picked on for their speech. I didn't bring up his speech oddities originally, someone else suggested that George was being "picked on", (not Billy,) because of his speech....wasn't me.
Diane, I was refferencing an earlier post you made about Bush being picked on with such a venomus manner. By the way your post was worded you implied that he wasn't picked on, at least thats how it seemd to me.
You'll interpret what I say however you want to, I don't always make myself as clear as I'd like. Red ,I'm going to make a long comment back on something you said earlier... my parents were Repubs. for many years.Try as he would Daddy couldn't understand George II. I had to get books about him for Daddy to read because it disturbed him so much. As for me, no I am not a conservative, nor am I a die hard Liberal. I'm in the middle. I judge things as they come and I do change my mind when I get new information or circumstances change. I don't toe an party line.
I believe in any non violent freedom of religion. I don't care for over generalization and admit that I do it too sometimes. I believe in line item veto, and recall and referendum. I'd like to see as much local government as will work. I don't think city values should be put on rural people, as long as they do the same and acknowledge that city folks have problems to solve that are unique to themselves. I believe in a Federal Gov. but I wish it would be more efficient. I believe that "kill "em all" isn't a good answer. I absolutely believe slavery here is/was wrong, even if it comes with an instruction sheet. ( Where is Moses when I need him!) I believe the Bible, as limited as it is (and I mean Old and New Testaments) is a great book, but not the only book. All humans have had their way of "enlightening" their people as far back as humanity goes. The American Indians have wonderful stories about how things came to be. As with the Bible, I believe some passages are symbolic and aren't meant to be taken literally. Many are life guides to keep people healthy and moral. The Bible has much missing and is made up of whatever the translator of the day wrote down. Even now the old Jewish scholars and linguists of ancient languages argue about the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, politically or religiously, but discussions can be great if they aren't mean. Sorry, David, I still don't have any answers!
"Will we spend the next four years, every day, listening to Pres. Obama being picked apart? Would you have tolerated that if every single day someone picked at George Bush with such venom? Republicans demanded respect for him simply because he was the President. He wasn't expected to prove himself every day."-Diane
How am I interrupting that wrong? Does it not imply that Bush wasn't "picked on"? If he wasn't then why would the Repub.s need to demand that he be respected because of his office? And yes, he was expected to prove himself everyday. People were screaming "wheres osama, why haven't we caught him yet. how long is this going to take, blah, blah, blah"
In still think the Repubs. are "Obama Bashing" more than the Demos. did to Pres. Bush. The Conservative radio stations, of which there are many, lauded nearly every move Pres. Bush made. I don't remember ugly nicknames being used, even in criticism. If it's that important that you be right on this, I withdraw my comment. I just don't think it's that important in the big scheme of things.
I can recall conservative radio speaking out aginst illegal wiretapping, the patriot act, and such. Yes they applauded him for keeping the U.S. safe by going after terrorists.
As for obama, what else would you call a liar,...how about a truth flipper,...or truth bender...a dishonest honest person?
The current acceptable word is "misspeak" or "misspoke" and they ALL do it...it's in the political hand book! :laugh:
It's what you have to do to be a politician and to be elected to a public office. All we older people know that. It's time you youngun's learn it.
Maybe its time we "younguns" did away with a system that was put into place by you older folks. Whats wrong with holding accountable those who give their word and then break it?
Sorry, Diane, but I am NOT politically correct...if someone lies, I'm gonna call them a liar.
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 03, 2009, 02:16:10 PM
Maybe its time we "younguns" did away with a system that was put into place by you older folks. Whats wrong with holding accountable those who give their word and then break it?
Sorry, Diane, but I am NOT politically correct...if someone lies, I'm gonna call them a liar.
Ohhh I could just grab you up and hug you till your eyeballs popped out!
You are dead on 100+1,000%... :-*
Then unfortunately George Bush was a liar too. There were no WMD in Iraq...I'm tell'n ya they all do it! That, for some reason seems to be a part of politics and goes back long before I was born.
I was wondering when someone was going to bring bush into this.
Diane, if they all lie then why should we trust them to know what they are doing? If they are proven liars they do not deserve our trust, or respect.
Quote from: Wilma on May 03, 2009, 01:50:30 PM
It's what you have to do to be a politician and to be elected to a public office. All we older people know that. It's time you youngun's learn it.
Are you saying that a county sheriff has to "LIE" to get voted into office too? ALL PEOPLE to be elected to a public office....HMMM?
I didn't lie and therefore didn't get elected to City Council so I guess this tells me what I need to do in a couple of years...NOT...I'm not lying just to get elected...
Personally, I never considered Sheriff to be a political position, even though they are sometimes elected. It see it much more as law enforcement myself. They don't have constituents like Mayors and Governors do, but I guess a bad one could take advantage if they wanted. I'm glad that you wouldn't have.
It may not be a political position, but it is an elected offical position and therefore (according to wilma) anyone who wants to be elected must lie in order to get elected.
The way I look at it, if an election is involved then it's political....It doesn't matter if it's for dogcatcher. If there's an election, you will have the ones that like you and the ones that hate you and the ones that don't care one way or the other. People are elected to keep people safe and to make rules and regulations and back them up. That includes everyone from the President, to Governor, to County Commissioner, to Sheriff, to City Council and the list goes on and on.
My point exactly, Billy... ;D
The further from local you get, the more likely they are to lie to get elected.
I heard someplace that in 2010, next year, that all of the House and half of the Senate is up for election. Of course the House is as their terms are for two year, but how about the Senate? Is it true that half of them will be up for grabs? How many of them have served more than two terms?
Elections to the United States Senate will be held on November 2, 2010, with at least 36 of the 100 seats in the U.S. Senate being contested. Thirty-four of these are to six-year terms, from January 3, 2011 to January 3, 2017. They will join Senate Class III, which traces its roots back to the senators who served full six-year terms from March 4, 1789 to March 3, 1795. Elections to the United States House of Representatives as well as some state and local elections will occur on the same date.
In addition to the 34 senators in Class III, there will be two special elections in 2010 to fill unexpired terms. One of these elections will be in Delaware to fill the last four years of the Class II seat previously held by Vice President Joe Biden. In 2008, Biden was simultaneously reelected to his seat in the U.S. Senate, a seat he had held since 1972. His resignation from the Senate seat resulted in Democratic then- Governor Ruth Ann Minner appointing Democrat Ted Kaufman to the seat until November 2010. Kaufman has since stated that he will not run for the unexpired term in 2010. This seat will again be up for election in 2014 for a full six-year term. The other special election will be held for New York's Class I seat previously held by by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. Clinton was reelected to her second term in 2006 but was confirmed as Secretary of State in January 2009, which resulted in Democratic Governor David Paterson appointing Democratic U.S. Representative Kirsten Gillibrand to the seat until November 2010. Gillibrand has stated that she will run for the unexpired term in 2010. This seat will again be up for election in 2012 for a full six-year term.
The current composition of the U.S. Senate going into the 2010 elections is a result of the 2008 elections, in which Democrats gained eight seats. The Democratic Party gained another seat with the political realignment of Arlen Specter on April 28, 2009. The U.S. Senate is currently composed of 57 Democrats, 40 Republicans, and two Independents—Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and Bernie Sanders of Vermont, both of whom caucus with the Democrats—and one outstanding seat in Minnesota. Of the seats expected to be up for election in 2010, 18 are held by Republicans and 18 by Democrats.
Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) Chairman Robert Menendez of New Jersey has stated he does not expect any other Democratic retirements besides Ted Kaufman. [1]
So the Republicans need to win all of the available seats now held by Democrats and not lose any to just even it out.
I am also wondering about the ages of the Senators and how long they have held their seats. I am all for term limits and age limits. I don't think that serving in the Senate should be a lifetime profession.
I sure agree with that, but who would vote for it?
Not the Senators and probably not even the House.
Term limits, absolutley
Age limits, why should that be a factor?
Because some of the doddering old senators can't put two words together without pausing for breath. Ted Kennedy refuses to resign his seat even though he has an incurable brain tumor. What we have running our country for us have been there so long, they probably have made their fortunes selling favors. Why should the president be limited to 2 terms when senators and reps can serve as long as they can get elected?
He agreed with the term limits...but the AGE THINGEE is DISCRIMINATION!
never said that they shouldn't be restricted to 2 terms. I said their age shouldn't be a factor. as long as they have all their marbles I don't care if they are 94 or 49.
Maybe it wouldn't take so long for the senate to do something if the old men could speak their piece and sit down. Did you hear Specter yesterday? I think he ah'd and oh'd between every word. If that is the way that bills are debated, no wonder nothing can get done.
Maybe there shouldn't be an age limit, but there should certainly be some common sense used. Just because they want to set a record on how long they can stay in office shouldn't be their reason for being there.
I think the chief justice that is retiring might be one of the smartest men in Washington. He is getting out while he is still enough alive to have a life.
Mr. President ummms and uhhhhhs and ummmmms some more unless he's got a teleprompter....some people no matter how high an office they hold just aren't gifted with public speaking....that shouldn't be held against them tho because they were "duly elected to office and deserve that respect..." (i have to go wash my mouth out with soap now...)
Don't worry wilma, if Dashle has his way we won't have to set an age limit.