HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. ??? ??? ???
"Smoking Gun" type PROOF that Obama is not qualified under the Constitution of the United States to hold public office within the United States, and this proof from the Country of Israel! But our leftist national media will not run the story because they have so much invested in helping Obama win the election...
Please read this link:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13056.htm
The plot thickens! Goodness, couldn't this just be another innocent error?
Now, if this were the dearly departed Bushy, the preceeding would have been on the front page of every rag with a readership of more than 10 people. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Interesting.
I've seen that at least 3 other times. It really isn't new. I would expect that an adult filled that out since Pres. O was a child at the time. I'm sure the writer assumed he was Muslim and would remain so. Is it still important now? Should someone, after all this time, keep beating that dead horse about how George B. didn't win the popular vote and stole the presidency? I can't speak for any of you but I changed my church too. As a kid I went to the Methodist. Now I consider myself a Presbyterian, although my mom always said I was really a"closet Unitarian with Quaker tendencies"....whatever that means. :laugh:
Quotealthough my mom always said I was really a"closet Unitarian with Quaker tendencies"....whatever that means.
Lol I'm sure there are MUCH worse things to be! ;)
Uh...Quaker tendencies...In taste in furniture or in an inability to reach consensus? lol ;D
Quote from: Diane Amberg on April 15, 2009, 09:13:50 AM
I've seen that at least 3 other times. It really isn't new. I would expect that an adult filled that out since Pres. O was a child at the time. I'm sure the writer assumed he was Muslim and would remain so. Is it still important now?
Yes Diane.. I certainly think it is very important to know who and what and where our president of the USA
loyalties are.
There was a time after the election that I wondered if exposing the truth that BHO was not a US Citizen might not be best for the country. I worried that it might be better to just weather the storm of his presidency and recoup afterwards rather than deal with the turmoil of a disqualified President and all the repercussions.
Now, after seeing how this Administration is living up to our worst fears and more, I am ready for and would welcome the turmoil.
Regardless of the fact that some people refuse to see or admit it....We are being pushed into a situation where "revolution" of some manner is becoming more and more likely. Removing the opposition leadership as the catalyst of this confrontation has become very appealing.
But honestly even if Obama himself came out and said, "No I wasn't born in the U.S., and I lied about being a Christian, and I've lied about everything else"........Do you really think he would leave? The socialist would still fall to their knees and praise him and just say, "We don't care what that old piece of paper says.....you crazy, racist, right wingers."
I suspect many members of the military might not react favorably to having an Usurper as Commander In Chief.
Every action he as taken as President could be invalidated.
Everyone who is not a supporter of BHO as an individual but who hold their loyalty to the Office of the President dear would have second thoughts at least.
And Diane.. Adults usually Do fill out the kids school forms.. unless they are old enough to do it themselves... so you can't really try to use that as an excuse for him. :)
And it is obvious that no one really knows who and what this man is .. The truth isn't in him ..and as long as the media continues on being Obama Brown noses and to sweep everything negative under the carpet about this man.. then we will never know for sure.
If any of the opposition parties have any cojones, they would have a heyday IF this were true..
Ratings would over rule socialist solidarity.
Diane, should it matter that obama stated time and time again that he isn't a muslim, only to be proven a liar? That means his personal oath to his "real" religion is meaningless making his word as a man meaningless, which means his promises to the american people are meaningless. Yes it matters. If he willingly ran for president, knowing he didn't have the basic qualifications, fully voilating the Constitution, and bold face lying to the american people, then YES it matters.
But, then again, if there are those among us who have no problem scraping the constitution, submitting the rule of the country to a foregin power, and basically spitting in the face of every vetran to have fought and died to "...Defend the Constitution against enemies both foregin and domestic.." then..no..it doesn't matter.
Y'all do know that there are certain things a Muslim HAS to do several times a day whether they are lyin about bein one or not right? Think somebody would've busted him by now..........seriously.
I don't know...you'd think he would have been able to prove he was an actual American by now....seriously.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
What would you consider proof?
Good question Wilma.....
My goodness, what did I do? I didn't mean to seem to be making excuses for Pres. O, it was just meant to be another side, an explanation of how that paper could come to be. People change their religious affiliation just as they change their political party. Are they stuck with whatever they did first and will never be accepted as anything else? Pres. Bush did a lot of good things, but there were things I didn't care for too. I voted for him, but I am not so loyal to any politician ( no, not even Joe Biden) that I would follow him off a cliff just because he's of a certain party. That's why I'm a member of the "radical middle." I like to look at all the ramifications of what a person or party wants to do, what are the long term consequences? I would never say "it must be good if so and so said it. Or,"it must be awful if it came from ___. There were people who absolutely "Knew" that JFK, or any Catholic for that matter could be our President, because once the Pope got his foot in the door, that was the end of our country as we knew it. I still say the core of the Republican Party would have hit the ground running if they could have toppled Obama with the citizenship and Muslim issue.They didn't. I just don't think it's worth arguing about any more. It's a very dead horse. I thought this country was born of religious freedom and tolerance. As far as the bail outs go, who knows? It may indeed be a colossal failure. It's too soon to tell. This particular set of circumstances has never happened quite this way before, so there is no history to look at. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime, the sun came up, I had a good breakfast, the mail came and I don't think my computer is being monitored by "them." By the way, Cat, I think Mom meant that I try to be a peacemaker when I can. Negotiate first, listen to the merits of both sides. If that doesn't work.....shoot em all! ;D
Lol Diane I've found the middle a dangerous place to be but it's still where I spend most of my time :P The truth is ALWAYS somewhere in the middle.
I just figure his step-dad put that down because the man is the one who decides things like that in his culture. O was a kid... what 10? Who the heck knows WHAT they believe when they are 10?
Even on that paper it answers the birth question.......it says he was born in Honolulu.........not Kenya :P or Indonesia or whatever.
I'm not his fan..I'm an interested observer of the path he is gonna take.......
QuoteIn the meantime, the sun came up, I had a good breakfast, the mail came and I don't think my computer is being monitored by "them."
Exactly :) (and even if they are I don't care :P ain't like I'm surfin porn or anything LOL)
The sun came up here, too, but not before I did, I have had my breakfast and mid-morning snack, my computer still works and if anyone is monitoring it, they aren't going to learn anything because there is nothing on it, not even my social security number.
I guess you could say that I am in the middle, too. I have always waited for the evidence before I made judgments. Just ask my kids. When they would come home with a wild tale from school, I would go to school and ask the teachers. Of course, we lived only a half block from the school house, so checking with the teachers was no big deal.
Quote from: pam on April 16, 2009, 09:16:22 AM
QuoteIn the meantime, the sun came up, I had a good breakfast, the mail came and I don't think my computer is being monitored by "them."
Exactly :) (and even if they are I don't care :P ain't like I'm surfin porn or anything LOL)
Ohhh come on now pammy............ ;D ;D
Nothing better than a huge plate of SPAM Porn to start your day off right.. hahahahahaha
LOL ::) ::)
Heres my problem with that Diane, he has stated time and again that he is not muslim, that he is a christian. Now why would a professed christian want to cover up a christian religious symbol before he gave a speech?
-Georgetown University hid a religious inscription representing the name of Jesus during President Obama's address there Tuesday, FOXNews.com has confirmed, because White House staff asked the school to cover up all religious symbols and signs while the president was on stage.
The monogram IHS, whose letters spell out the name of Jesus, and which normally perches above the stage in Gaston Hall where the president spoke, was covered over with what appeared to be black wood during the address.-Fox News.
Have you heard about the protests about government having anything to do with religion? Or is that having religious symbols at government functions? Can't win if we do and can't win if we don't.
If gov't isn't supposed to have anything to do with religion, why was he speaking at a Catholic university?
And who said that gov't shouldn't have anything to do with religion (other than Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin etc)? The Constitution clearly states...
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
So, I will restate my question, why would a christian not want a christian symbol visible while giving a speech?
Varmit, it would make it appear as though he were speaking from the pulpit rather than a lectern. (sigh)
Where does it say that Obama ordered it and why was he at a Christian university if he doesn't want to see Christian symbols? It just doesn't hold water, another rant and rave to make the United States look bad.
Do you believe everything you hear on Fox news? I don't. I have tried to listen to them, but they don't make sense. IMHO there are too many opinions being broadcast and not enough truth.
Excuse the expression Wilma, but a Big Amen to that! ;D
Actually, sixdogsmom, it wouldn't. The symbols he had covered were small and a part of Georgtown University monogram. (sigh)
Wilma, it states in the article that the White house staff requested that it be covered. I don't know why he went to Georgetown U. Maybe they asked him to come?
What do you mean by another rant and rave to make the united states look bad?
Well Fox News is the only station with enough guts to tell the public what is really going on..
Why do you think the Liberals want to shut them up??
Because they report on the ugly truth...
They don't make sense??
What?? They are the only ones who DO make sense.. unless you like fairy tale news that the other stations hand out to appease the Liberals.
Fox news has the highest ratings on news...
There is a reason for it................ :)
Boy Varmint, we're gonna get along GREAT! You just love stirring the pot and I enjoy reading it! You make a lot of sense and I can tell you know a great deal about things. Just remember, these people are set in their ways and you will NEVER change their mind!!! But you're doing a great job you little sh*t starter, you!
And a BIG AMEN to you Teresa for stating the truth about Fox News, and I won't pardon my expression! Kudos to you Teresa and Varmint! You're both GREAT AMERICANS!! (our friends who don't watch Fox and probably don't listen to Rush won't understand what i'm saying to you)
Fox News is where I get all of my news because I don't drink Kool-Aid....
(let the b*tching begin..................................................) :D
Whoa....Wait just a minute..
We are ALL great Americans in here..
I personally know most of the people in here... and like all of them that I do know.
So lets not get too much on the "judgement side".... :)
I love the fire power of debate and I personally am proud of everyone in here for not being afraid to get involved and stating what you think. .. ( no matter what your opinions are)
Sometimes.. it is a great feeling to be able to just get out what you are feeling.
I stand strong on my beliefs as I know everyone on both sides does.. But I also am open to listening to all sides..
Will it change my mind? probably not... but if the bantering and fact slamming is good.. I learn.
I love learning..
Sometimes I just shake my head in disgust... open my mouth gaping in wonder.. .. chuckle and laugh when I read some of the stuff.. but I learn...
I am so glad that more people are getting involved in this section.. and once again.. not being timid in posting..
Politics is a very emotional subject... Lets remain respectful to each other and understand that there is ALWAYS going to be more than "your side".. no mater what subject it is..
Good job everyone... :)
Now, now...I just meant that as what Sean Hannity says to everyone, Not implying that all of us here are not great americans... don't take me wrong.... ;)
I might not change their mind...but I can "hope" I can "change" it. HAHA!
You know, fight the good fight and all that,
Hannity and Beck both rock!
QuoteJust remember, these people are set in their ways and you will NEVER change their mind!!! But you're doing a great job you little sh*t starter, you!
Ha like you aren't :P Actually I've had my mind changed a few times in my life and I've changed a few minds but then I'm open to change LOL and just for the record I really don't watch Fox much OR Msnbc and Rush Limbaugh is an arrogant blow-hard but that's just my opinion and guess WHAT....... this is America...I can do that!
As well can I....and yes I guess I am a sh*t starter too...just my nature! ;D
How is Rush a blow hard?? what he says makes sense.
;D ;D ;D ;D LOLOLOLOL!!!
Rush is a blowhard. If he had been a LIBERAL talk-show host when they found out he was also a pill junkie he never would've worked again and you know it. But because he was RUSH LIMBAUGH GREAT AMERICAN he just had a disease and needed our help :P Give me a break.
Y'all don't know me, I am a fence ridin conservative independant with liberal tendencies and I listen to people with an open mind and decide for myself whether or not I think they are full of you know what. I think he is full of you know what.
I been known to stir a turd or two myself :P
No...not thats not right.
1) obama-liberal who admitted to smoking pot, now elected president
2) clinton-also smoked weed, cheated on his wife, lied under oath, among other things, still kept in office
3) and the list goes on...
Yes, he had a drug problem, Yes, he got over it (and good for him). But that doesn't change the fact that what he says is not only true but makes sense. Is he arrogant??? yeah, a little.
But like the song says, "it ain't braggin if you can back it up"
LOL but Obama was a poor black kid from Chicago :P and Clinton did NOT inhale LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
We are going to just have to agree to disagree on Rush, I don't think he has the Holy Grail of the Truth at his disposal.
Obama smoked pot, Clinton cheated on his wife . . . . >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( know what I say? FILE ALL THIS WHERE YOU FILED THE TRICKY DICKIE SHUFFLE and move on.
After reading the glowing reports of Fox News as a news channel, I decided to give them another chance. So, this morning at 6:00 I turned on the TV and switched to the Fox News network. Sure enough they were reporting on the covering up of religious symbols. First they covered the original story, complete with photograph showing the painted plywood. Then one of them offered that the decision to do this was probably made by some 22 year old White House staffer. And then, they reported that the White House denies asking that religious symbols be covered up while the president was speaking, that they asked only for the usual background with American flags. So it must have been the school's decision to place an ugly piece of plywood over what would have been a beautiful addition to the picture. This comment took about 1/20th of the time that the rest of the story took.
This is not a news story. The news was that the president was speaking at this school, not that anyone had asked that religious objects be covered. If Fox is a news channel, maybe they need better reporters with a better idea of what news is. It sounds more like the Enquirer than it does a reliable news source. To be fair though, I will try Fox several times today to see if they are presenting any real news.
Flo, you are right. That is exactly where this story belongs.
I am not saying that Rush is the holy grail of truth, just what he says makes sense. 'nuff said on that.
As far as the White House denying asking for the cover up, I guess anything they say is true, and of course, obama and his administration never reverse themselves. This is news because it goes to show his character and his comments recently in Turkey in which he stated "america is not a christian nation..." and that "we are not at war with islam.."
In that we don't have a national religion, he is right, but we were founded as a christian nation, on christian principals. And no, we are not at war with islam, just the radical ones that want to slit all our throats. Of course, we can't call them terrorists anymore. In fact, we will embrace their religion just so we don't hurt their feelings or give the impression that we actually stand on principals, In fact, those of us that do will be the ones labeled as terrorists.
We are not at war with Islam, and I wish you would learn to capitalize. We are at war with terrorism. This war was started when we were attacked. Now just who is saying that we should embrace this religion so as not to hurt their feelings and who says we shouldn't call them terrorists? They are terrorists, but not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims.
He is right that we are no longer a Christian nation, even though we were based on Christianity. We have accepted in our country all religions, freedom of religion. I claim it as my right and I will not deny it as your right. Now why are you blaming Obama for this?
Varmint, just to satisfy my own warped curiosity, in Ireland, who's right, the Protestants or the Catholics? Also, were the Puritans and Pilgrims "good Christians?" If so, why were they driven out? Doesn't it all depend on one's perspective?
Oh DIANE :o What a can of worms ! Whos right depends which side you are on :P Ireland is a prime example of the damage can be done by religous bigotry.
QuoteHe is right that we are no longer a Christian nation, even though we were based on Christianity. We have accepted in our country all religions, freedom of religion. I claim it as my right and I will not deny it as your right. Now why are you blaming Obama for this?
Exactly!
You are missing the point...during the campaign obamas religion was brought up. It was said that he was a muslim. He denied this over and over and over and over again. "I'm a christian, I have a christian faith etc" we heard him say. My question is why would someone who has said they are a christian want christian symbols covered unless they lied about being christian?
Quote from: Varmit on April 16, 2009, 07:17:51 PM
If gov't isn't supposed to have anything to do with religion, why was he speaking at a Catholic university?
And who said that gov't shouldn't have anything to do with religion (other than Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin etc)? The Constitution clearly states...
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
So, I will restate my question, why would a christian not want a christian symbol visible while giving a speech?
I'm curious, Varmit. Government shouldn't have anything to do with religion? Is that why prayer is not allowed in school? Is that why no christian picture is allowed to be hung on the walls of a courthouse? Is that why no "public" building or grounds can display a Nativity at Christmas? Here all this time I thought it was the government that said "NO, CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE BECAUSE IT STEPS ON THE TOES OF ATHIESTS". Guess I blamed our government for something they didn't do. Please explain to this dumb country gal just what is "separation of church and state?"
Varmint....Are you really looking for any reason you can to call the President a liar? Show me that that HE commanded that the plywood be covered so it wouldn't interfere with his religious beliefs. Isn't that just your convenient interpretation of the events? There could be lots of reasons that would be acceptable to lots of people that have nothing to do with politics or religion. I sure don't know, how could you? A tempest in a teapot?
Flo, I think you are missreading me here....I agree with what you're saying, I think we should allow those things.
But, there is no "seperation of church and state" in the Constitution.
Admendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
I really don't have to look for a reason...he provides plenty of them.
Show me that he DIDN't ask for it to be covered. And no that is not my interpretation of events, it is what was reported.
Sorry, nope, I asked first ;D So he's guilty until proven innocent?
How much more proof do you need...did you go to foxnew.com and read the article??? Have you seen and heard the things that man has said and what he supports...heres just a few:
-money paid to hamas through gaza
-support of a two state solution that would strip Isreal of even more land
-his comment about America not being a christian nation
-his attendance at a church where the pastor calls for "Goddamn America" the same pastor that labels it "AmeriKKKa"
-his support of abortion, and sending tax dollars overseas to fund abortion on a global scale
-his support of Embrotic stem cell research, which has shown little to no results
-his embracing of the islamic faith while ignoring the christian
His actions lend more creditability and truth than his words ever could.
I do see Fox, and CNN, and Hannity and Glenn Beck, and others and I know an agenda when I see one. On both sides! His comment about America not being a Christian nation, I saw and I know what he really said. His Pastor was a jerk looking for publicity but you can't hold one member of the congregation responsible for him. Abortion, maybe. It depends on the circumstances . Stem cell research I totally support. It needs more time to prove its worth. Embracing Islam while ignoring Christians....prove it! The other couple I'd have to look at further. In spite of what you might think I'm not totally pleased with Pres. O, but I'm willing to give some of the ideas a chance to work, before I give a thumbs up or down.
Thank you, girls, for saying it for me and much better than I could say it. I have no patience for people who hide behind a false name and pretend to know what is right.
As for the plywood farce, didn't I tell you this morning that Fox news admitted that the White House denies having asked for any such thing. Or do you prefer to believe only what you WANT to hear?
What agenda does Beck or hannity have? I don't hold a church member responsible for what a pastor says unless that member contunies to attend that church. Abortion, fundamentally I think it is wrong. However I am willing to make exceptions in cases of rape, incest, and when the mothers life is threatened, thats it. Stem cell research I am all for as long as the cells are adult and not embrotic. As far as his embracing islam and ignoring christianity...
He had outlined the importance of working with the Muslim community via through mutual interests and respect. Obama outlined the contributions made by Muslim-Americans.-Digital Journal "obamas muslim outreach speech draws praise and criticism"
When was the last time you heard him make the same appeal towards Christians?
You would rather see the embryonic stem cells destroyed? Isn't that murder, too?
Don't we have freedom of religion? Where does it say that only a Christian can be president? Not that Obama is Islamic. He says that he is Christian and he does not perform the rituals required by the Muslims. But then some people believe only what they want to hear.
Alright wilma, you want my real name??? Its Billy. Varmit was a nickname given to me by my Dad.
How am I pretending to know what is right?? I am doing the exact same thing everyone else who posts on this fourm is doing...expressing my opinion and beliefs and defending them.
Patience for those who hide behind false names and pretend to know what is right...how come this label is only applied to people who don't agree with you?
I believe that anything coming from his adminstration and himself is a lie, reversal, or cover up, I base this on their track record.
Where do they get the embryonic stem cells?
I never said that only a Christian can be president.
He also said he wasn't going after guns, raising taxes, that he would have an ethical adminstration...more lies.
How do you know he doesn't perform the 5 calls to prayer a day?
Embryonic cells are collected after the owner is finished with them. I suspect now a more formal process of giving up ownership for research will need to be adopted. Have you ever thought about what happens to the placenta and cord after the baby is born? It's usually not tossed. It's used to collect the useful materials that are left behind. Also, not that long ago there were some real ethical issues over human heart transplants. Was it OK to harvest a living heart? Now most people just accept that as the norm. I wonder why your Dad called you a varmint? :laugh: Express your opinions all you want, but don't expect everyone to agree with you all the time. Some of us are skeptical of the intentions of some of the information that gets quoted. You know some of us read both sides of things and make up my own minds.
Diane, I don't expect for everyone to agree with me..and thats fine, I like a good debate. But when it begins to get personal is where I take offense. I mean, attack my argument all you want, but don't critize me for presenting it; or call me a racist, or ignorant, or "oh he's just to young to understand LOL".
Why are you taking my comments so personally!!! >:( Was your name mentioned? Sheesh! I didn't have anyone in particular in mind. I have never called you ignorant, a racist or any other evil name . Get over it. If you're gonna run with the big dogs, well you know.
I was using "you" as a generalization. didn't mean to offend
;) :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Wow .....leave you guys alone for a little while!
Quote-money paid to hamas through gaza
-support of a two state solution that would strip Isreal of even more land
-his comment about America not being a christian nation
-his attendance at a church where the pastor calls for "Goddamn America" the same pastor that labels it "AmeriKKKa"
-his support of abortion, and sending tax dollars overseas to fund abortion on a global scale
-his support of Embrotic stem cell research, which has shown little to no results
-his embracing of the islamic faith while ignoring the christian
His actions lend more creditability and truth than his words ever could.
About Gaza.. are you talkin about the humanitarian aid? If so that's been goin on for awhile now
I think a two state arrangement is the only answer there is that will last...
America ISN'T exclusively Christian anymore....hasn't been for a long time! Even if you don't accept the others Jews don't consider themselves Christian and there is a BUNCH of them
I went to the Baptist church for an awful lot of years after I quit buyin most of what they were sayin so that one is pretty self-explanatory
as for abortion I think it's wrong PERsonally but it's not my cross to bear for some other woman who thinks it's necesaary
I also agree with embryonic sten cell research. I think it's disgraceful to fertilize those eggs and then throw them out like trash but at least this way they count for somthing and may help cure some awful disease. Also they can come from umbilical cord blood, nobody dies for those y'know
As for his "outreach" to muslims. Even though I ..again...personally think the religion is whacked...reaching out and trying to connect with a part of the country that's is here to stay instead of isolating them to ferment in private.......makes pretty good sense to me. He doesn't HAVE to reach out to Christians....Christians are already the mainstream and can stand on their own.
QuoteHe also said he wasn't going after guns, raising taxes, that he would have an ethical adminstration...more lies.
Imagine that.....a dude that stretched the truth and promised things he can't or had no intention of delivering just to get elected.........WHAT the hell is this country comin to ( that's sarcasm in case you can't tell :P)
QuoteHow do you know he doesn't perform the 5 calls to prayer a day?
cause my faith in the mercenary spirit of the average American tells me SOMEbody would of seen him AND dollar signs and put cell-phone pictures of it on You-tube by now LOL
As for Diane and Wilma, they are pretty good ol girls. Shoot me and them have butted heads more than once and (shhh don't tell anybody) they have caused me to reexamine my stance more than once!
A good debate gets your brain cells bouncin..........and your blood pressure up too LOL Nothin wrong with that y'know
<Peeking around the corner, surruptitiously... :o :o...Ever so slowly, backing out of the room...Time to go watch something having nothing to do with reality on TV...Too serious for a Friday afternoon! lol>
;D ;D ;D
Thank you, Pam. You have really got me pegged right.
ok pam...
money to gaza should stop
leave isreal alone, they don't need to give up anymore land, that would work
america isn't exclusively christian, but christian is the majority
abortion is wrong, and I will continue to rally against it, if folks don't want children then they shouldn't have sex,
embryo cells, if they aren't fertilized, they don't need to be destroyed in the first place
bear in mind muslims want us dead or muslim, either choice doesn't really appeal to me
he didn't just stretch the truth, he lied, theres a difference, slight but its there
An embryo is fertilized or it wouldn't be an embryo and destroying them instead of using them is just as much murder as it is claimed to be by using them.
Who is he? and why do you say he lied?
Exactly, so why create them in the first place unless you are going to allow them to grow and be born?
he is obama, as for why I say he lied I already answered that one.
So you don't believe him just because of who he is. Why should anyone believe you?
Quote from: Wilma on April 18, 2009, 08:36:57 AM
So you don't believe him just because of who he is. Why should anyone believe you?
WHAT??? Did you read any of my previous posts?
You didn't answer, "Why should anyone believe you?"
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on April 18, 2009, 07:20:22 AM
ok pam...
money to gaza should stop
leave isreal alone, they don't need to give up anymore land, that would work
america isn't exclusively christian, but christian is the majority
abortion is wrong, and I will continue to rally against it, if folks don't want children then they shouldn't have sex,
embryo cells, if they aren't fertilized, they don't need to be destroyed in the first place
bear in mind muslims want us dead or muslim, either choice doesn't really appeal to me
he didn't just stretch the truth, he lied, theres a difference, slight but its there
I have said the same thing about abortion on here before BAKAV embryo cells...duh...but people who can't have a baby the normal way do it.........as for muslims, the fringe nutcases do yeah. All muslims aren't terrorists......as for Isreal etc. I really don't care I'm sorry. I don't live there...I'm not jewish, none of my ancestors were jewish, I just can't get fired up about it.
If they believe me or not is up to them.
So you don't believe him just because of who he is.-wilma
How did you come to this conclusion?
If you have presented any proof, I missed it. I don't have to prove anything. I am not the accusor. I am willing to wait for results before making judgments. Even a baby can't be produced in 3 months.
So you don't believe him just because of who he is. Why should anyone believe you?-wilma
To which I answered by asking if you'd read my previous posts, because if you had you would have seen the arguments that I offered proving that obama is a liar, not because of who he is, but because of his actions.
Yet your arguments are things you have read or heard from other people. What do you know about the veracity of these people? What do you know first hand that is true? Have you heard Obama say that he is a Muslim? It is my understanding that when a Muslim denies his religion, he is marked for death. By saying that he is a Christian, Obama is deniying being a Muslim. Thus, he must be marked for death by the Muslims. Would another assassination make you happy?
I went poking around and found a little bit that said Hitler was brought up Catholic. So he MUST be identified as Catholic? A Catholic had all those people murdered? Hooey! People can and do "change" religion. Hitler used religion to suit his purpose. I guess other people do too. It's just very convenient to insist Pres. O is Muslim because it's very fashionable to hate Muslims right now. Some Muslims are bad. So If Pres.O is Muslim, he must be bad. There are lots of things that could sway me to disagree with some of his policies....That ain't one of them.
There's a lot of stuff posted and I can't read it all.
But I do not recall you opposing any of Obama's policies.
Okay, for the sake of argument, I am willing to concede that obama isn't muslim, but judging from his character and actions I will not call him a christian either. As far as what I know to be true here it is...
1) obama is decidely anti american
2) he is a socialist
3)he does not believe in the Constitution
4) he is not a christian
as for another assisanation, unless his entire administration could be taken out, it would be pointless. I don't think it would solve anything.
Let's see now:
You think that Obama is anti-American
You think he is socialist along with a whole lot of other Americans
You think he does not believe in the Constitution even though he isn't doing anything differently than his predecessors did.
You think he is not a Christian even though he says he is and is attending Christian churches and going through the motions of being a Christian. How many people do you know that say they are Christian and still do unchristian things?
You are right, getting rid of Obama would not solve anything.
It's not unusual for Chrstian people to do un-Christian things - is it Wilma?
Just because a person is in a church, or a member thereof, does not automatically make them
a Christian - does it?
I have no obligation to believe that Obama is a Christian or his testimony thereto. Do you?
No, I don't have to believe that he is a Christian, but neither do I have to believe that he is not.
You think he does not believe in the Constitution even though he isn't doing anything differently than his predecessors did.
You think he is not a Christian even though he says he is and is attending Christian churches and going through the motions of being a Christian. How many people do you know that say they are Christian and still do unchristian things?-wilma
We didn't have an assault weapon ban with bush or the push for so much legislation..
Even Satan was in heaven at one point....
And I don't know anyone who says they are a Christian and supports abortion
You know you all seem so comfortable judging.......me not so much.........like the hoopla about Obama talking to our "enemies" and being a "traitor" to America..........I watched the news coverage of the meetings I listened to Obamas explanation of his purpose this evening on the news. It makes common sense to me what he said...that he is trying to show them that we are going to practice what we preach for a change. Imagine that.....America actually being able to say do as I do instead of do as I say.
There are a lot of things I TOTally disagree with him on..LIKE gun control and some of the immigration stuff and a few other things that just have to do with my own moral code...BUT I don't think he is the big bad he is made out to be...he's just another politician who was JUST crooked enough to get elected.
I think judging another persons relationship or lack thereof with God is a slippery slope and one NONE of us is really qualified to do....but that's just my two cents.
I don't feel like I am judging him....just calling it like I see it. Can't really say that I agree with your view (I know shocking isn't it.)about America and the "do as I say thing". I think what really got to me the most about the Summit of the Americas is how obama sit through an hour of U.S. Bashing without saying a word in our defense.
Matthew 7:20
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
JUdge not lest ye be judged......for by the measure you use so shall it be meted out to you.....
Perhaps Pres. O thinks the world is entitled to it's opinion and he can't know where the rough spots are unless he hears it? You know (and this is just my opinion based on what some others have said), many countries aren't so in love with him as much as they are glad to see Pres. Bush go away. He left a really bad taste in the mouths of some countries. I voted for his father, and was disappointed. I voted for the son the first time, but not the second time. I do feel Pres. Bush and his people used 9-11 as an excuse to run wild. I'm still not happy about the wire tapping and the executive signing privileges he used to get what he wanted, constitution or not. Part of the time he seemed to be more of a Christian leader looking to make religious and political converts than our governmental President. Other things he did I liked. A different Republican might have done better. That's just me.
Thank you, Diane. You have just reinforced my contention that Obama is being unjustly judged before he has had a chance to prove himself. He has still to do some of the things previous presidents have done that have been forgotten. He also still has the trials to go through that other presidents have had to face.
It may all totally flop on it's own merits, but I'm certainly not going try to sabotage their efforts or be so quick to judge. It's a shame future generations may be saddled with this, but that was almost assured when we went to war, long before the economy went poof and the mortgage banks imploded. My father felt the same way during the depression and at the end of WWII.
You two are spot on to what I'm thinkin too.
Diane, I never saw Bush as a Christian leader looking to make political or religious converts.
What did he have to be converted to politically? Religiously? Please tell me more.
How about governmental converts? Seems like there's way too many of 'em already.
Actually, where in the constitution does it say that the president has to be a Christian?
If it's in the Constitution, then it's probably been violated a several times in recent times.
Perhaps Pres. O thinks the world is entitled to it's opinion and he can't know where the rough spots are unless he hears it?-Diane
I would hope that as a senator, even before he was elected that he would have enough political savvy to know where the "rough spots" are. As for him being "unjustly judged" what has he done other than weaken our defense, added trillions to our debt, taken over private businesses, embarass the US, reach out to our enemies while ignoring our allies? I guess what I am asking is in the last 100 days what has obama done to build up the United States?
The Consititution doesn't say that the president has to be Christian
Red, I can't find a direct quote at the moment, but many a time Pres. Bush said he was going to spread Democracy in the middle east. He was said by others to be a devout Christian. (There are those would really dispute that, and would say that his behavior in office was very un Christian like and had lots of strings attached.) Aren't good Christians supposed to bring people into the fold? Aren't they meant to copy the ways of Jesus? Regardless, I wish the man well even though I didn't always agree with him.
Billy, what, in your opinion, did Pres. Bush do to "build up" the United States? I can think of some things, what do you think?
Increase funding for our military defense as well as veteran benefits, actually went after our enemies, not just sit down and talk with them.
Now that I answered your question, answer mine...
All right, you want the new President of the United States, who has been in office 100 days, to launch an attack on every country that doesn't agree with us? Bush went after an enemy after we had been attacked. And then there were people who said he did it only because his father did not.
You want funding for military defense increased even though we are being criticized for interfering in other countries? You want better veteran's benefits. In 1948, my husband was medically discharged with a monthly pension of $50.00, which was soon changed to $25.00 and then discontinued entirely. I think there was education help and help in getting a loan to buy a home, neither of which we took advantage of. I don't disagree that veterans could use more help, but what they are entitled to today is so much more than what it was after a real war was fought. Us oldies are not complaining as we pay our taxes to help keep the military going and pay the veterans what they are entitled to. You, on the other hand, are complaining about the taxes and then asking for more tax money to be spent. Which way would you have it?
Billy, let me try to answer the earlier question without making anyone angry. Pres. O reinstated stem cell research.To me that's a good thing. He is sending money back to the people, $250.00 to SS recipients ( yes I know it's a drop in a very leaky bucket) He's made it so people will take home a bit more in their paychecks. He says he is not raising taxes on average people, but nobody seems to believe that. He froze salaries at the White House( and maybe Congress?). He put a stop to lobbyist gifts and changed who lobbyists can work for. He is trying to improve veterans benefits. I like the high speed rail system idea. He is trying to deescalate the worlds negative feelings about us. I know you don't approve of the way he's doing it, but I grew up with a cold war that threatened to get hot at any minute. Duck and cover drills and bomb shelters....yuk. I don't want to do that again. I really believe Pres. O is trying to find A way, if it doesn't work then perhaps something else will. Wasn't it the Chaney who called Americans a bunch of "whiners?" The situation in Iraq has improved, so maybe they'll start start paying the money they owe us. Remember, Iraqi oil was supposed to pay for the war, to topple Hussein. I remember when Pres. Bush said it. If Pres. O can make relationships with them even better, perhaps money will flow to us instead of from us.
War veterans have received benefits since the founding of the USA. They earned it too.
But, it is not so to all the "others" who are receiving federal entitlements nowdays.
There should be no federal grants either. More folks ought to be against the grants
and entitlements, their American ancestors were.
It's no wonder that gov't schools do not promote the values of our ancestors or
support our great American heritage.
The only "change" seems to be more of the same.
Wilma, I realize that the older generation went through some really tough times, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for the men and women who fought in WWII. But I didn't see anyone calling them "babykiller" or the like. I don't recall them being put on a list as a potential terrorist threat. Yes, I want more money spent on defense, maybe we could cut social programs, such as welfare, that don't work. Or maybe, stop paying, via medicare, for medications of older folks. Or perhaps we could have spent the 600billion dollars that was set aside for a national healthcare system that doesn't exist yet on something that does.
And by the way, what, exactly, defines a "real war"?
As for what our veterans get, it is no where near enough.
And how dare you insinuate that our troops fighting today are somehow making less of a sacriface than those of past wars. Shame on you!!!!
Diane, I appricate your attempt to not anger anyone.
the stem cell thing...well...we disagree on this one.
As far as money sent back to people, it adds up to about 8-13 dollars a paycheck. what this bought is an assualt on our civil liberties.
Check the new income tax bracketts, they went up. as did taxes on other things. And they will continue to go up once the bill for all of his social programs comes due.
Lobbyists...he said that he would get rid of them...he did this by promoting them to his adminstration.
Check the new income tax bracketts, they went up. as did taxes on other things. And they will continue to go up once the bill for all of his social programs comes due. <--- This is factual inaccurate, the tax brackets have not changed. Further to that, the only ones changing in the prospective budget are the upper two brackets, not all. Please correct.
I don't want the pres. to attack every country that doesn't agree with us, disagreement is fine. However, when that disagreement turns to open hostilty I want the pres. to keep this country safe, not weaken our defenses.
A know some of you are not in favor of grants, but I just read about several little small Kansas towns in the north of the state that are writing a grant request for tornado sirens. Is that not a good thing ? It benefits everyone. Also, Al and I are Viet Nam era and I know how ugly it was. It was a sacrifice and there were many casualties. Every evening we heard Dan Rather give the body counts and I wondered who else did I know who wouldn't be coming home. It was very unpopular, but it was never a declared war....It was a "conflict." I think Korea was also. Great political verbage. Medicare part D, which we pay for, and has that "donut hole"is the medicare drug coverage. It's the drug companies that set the price and some people really can't afford it. It should be the drug companies that need to work more diligently to be cost effective. Drugs, that's a whole other bone of contention.The cost of those hugely expensive ads on TV and the drug reps. bribing the docs with free lunches and all sorts of treats. It would be fine if everyone could afford their meds. But there are those who can't. Should we all die at 65 and "reduce the excess population"?
Quoting Scrooge?? ;D ;D Cool...
Die at 65...that is not my decision, but folks should plan for their retirment and future. Just because someone didn't doesn't mean the rest should have to pay for it. Part of the reason drugs are so expensive is because of the gov't interfernce faced by drug companies.
Government "interference" doesn't make it any easier, but that's not the whole story. I could get 500 25 mg. atenolol directly through AC Moore for $15.00. By prescription to my mail order drug company it's 90 for $10.00. Plus the rather clever thing they do with drug patents. When a patent is about to expire they reformulate the drug ever so slightly, such as making it "extended release," so it's a new drug and the generic drug folks can't have it. Remember that "purple pill'' Prilosec that was advertised so much? Where is it now? Is it still around or has it been replaced by something else? I suppose that's just good business, but it seems wrong somehow.
I get 30 pills for over $100.00 and another prescription is 30 pills for $90.00. No way could I afford these two meds without insurance but they are essential. The rest of my meds are generic and the least expensive is the Lortab which I suppose has been around for a long time. Between the cost of the premium and the co-pays, it isn't cheap to stay alive and be comfortable. Personally, I think the government should put some controls on the drug companies.
Billy, do you have your future assurred and can you be sure that what you are doing now will still be there when you need it? I did an income tax this year that they had lost a huge percentage of the value of their savings. And they can't be sure that there won't be more lost by the time they need it. Seems personal savings are no more safe than the future of Social Security.
We have the basis and foundations to uphold, yet most wrongly prefer
to vote down the established principles.
Are not the principles of the founding fathers to be adhered?
wilma, you're right, we cannot be assured of tomorrow, we don't know what it is going to bring. But that doesn't mean we force others to pay for our burdens. I have heard people say the same thing you have, that it costs too much, they can't afford it. Yet, these same people are able to find money to pay for cell phones, cable tv, internet, etc.
I heard it said once by older folks, "Its not how much you have, it is what you do with what you have"...
You are absolutely right redcliffsw, we have to stand on our principles, we cannot bend or sway them to fit the situtation.
But we do have to exist on a planet where not everything is to our liking and we can't take up arms and straighten out all the countries that don't agree with us. What are we to do to try to maintain civil relations with these countries?
The tree that doesn't bend in the wind is the tree that gets snapped off.
Did you know that "founding fathers" was originally "founder fathers"? I thought that was interesting. Al was a Poli. Sci. major at UD and I couldn't help but soak up stuff too. He took a very tough course in constitutional law and got a lot out of it. Some of you who refer to the principles of the founding fathers....take a crack at reading the Madison Papers. It's James Madison's notes, journals and rough copies of what he wrote and one can almost hear him thinking out loud as he pondered the best way to word things. very interesting.
Was James Madison a lawyer? Is that why so many words were used to state one small fact?
He was a Federalist lawyer. :laugh:
"But we do have to exist on a planet where not everything is to our liking and we can't take up arms and straighten out all the countries that don't agree with us. What are we to do to try to maintain civil relations with these countries?
The tree that doesn't bend in the wind is the tree that gets snapped off."-wilma
Again, I never said that we can't have disagreements, I never said that everything has to be to our liking. But that doesn't mean we can sit on our collective butt and not answer threats. What would you have us do? Wait until we are attacked, again, before we go after those who seek to do us harm? Why should we seek civil relations with countries that have attacked, kidnapped our citizens; plotted to or helped others that wanted to attack; criticize our captalism and then condem us for not doing business with them?
And by the way, even some trees have torns...
And even those break if they don't bend.
What would have us do? Turn to aggression. What else can entering a foreign country to punish their people be called? Do you want us to stand all alone in the world? And why is it up to our new democrat president to punish these nations when the previous republican president didn't do anything about it? Oh, yes, Bush did invade Iraq and has been criticized to high heaven for doing that. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Bush did more than invade iraq, and yes he was critizied for it. He also started a missle defense plan, increased defense budget, and told the world that we would defend ourselves. Bush didn't cut funding, weaken defenses, or kowtow to our enemies. What else could obamas actions be called?
Stand alone in the world?? No. We have allies and I expect our president to support them, no insult and turn away from them.
Turn to aggression? If that is what it takes to keep this country safe, you are damn right.