Cow tax proposal would threaten agriculture viability
"With the economy in bad shape and the possibility of a deep recession looming, the Environmental Protection Agency is proposing to levy new taxes—on cows and pigs," American Farm Bureau Federation Director of Regulatory Relations Rick Krause told Wyoming Farm Bureau members at their annual meeting. Krause spoke in Sheridan on Nov. 7.
"This is no laughing matter," Krause said. "The cow tax and the pig tax are parts of a larger scheme by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to regulate greenhouse gases under the Clean Air Act."
"Under the proposal, if a state charged the "presumptive minimum rate" from the EPA, the cow tax would be $175 per dairy cow, $87.50 per head for beef cattle and a little more than $20 per pig," Krause explained.
http://www.wyfb.org/
http://www.wyfb.org/NewsFeeds.aspx?file=Links/NWS281b9276fe1f.htm&ID=530&from=front
http://www.kfb.org/news/newsimages/afbflivestocktax2.pdf
If they apply taxes like that to the people we depend on to feed us, they will go broke so fast the EPA wil wonder what has happened. Just like the goverment to find a way to get more money from a turnip. I really feel sorry for the ranchers trying to make a living in this day and age.
Maude
Quote from: Maude on November 20, 2008, 06:05:50 PM
If they apply taxes like that to the people we depend on to feed us, they will go broke so fast the EPA wil wonder what has happened. Just like the goverment to find a way to get more money from a turnip. I really feel sorry for the ranchers trying to make a living in this day and age.
Maude
The good thing is NAIS was defeated this year so they have no clue as to who is growing what. IF they manage to get NAIS to pass then were screwed.
Real quick - I just mentioned this at work earlier today and here are a couple of the 1st reponses I got!
So what is the government going to do pay themselves for all the Buffalo, Elk and other wildlife in the national parks? They are larger animals than Cows & Pigs!
How about Zoos?
Funny the first thoughts that come to peoples minds!!!
Quote from: srkruzich on November 20, 2008, 06:35:50 PM
The good thing is NAIS was defeated this year so they have no clue as to who is growing what. IF they manage to get NAIS to pass then were screwed.
NAIS was not defeated this year. It was deemed to be more appropriate as a voluntary program. NAIS is for animal disease tracking, and the data is not made public or even made available to the government, unless a disease outbreak occurs.
FACT: Our company had the KS Dept of Ag call us up and tell us there was a bull out in a county that had an EID tag. The sheriff's office called them and wanted to find out who the owner was so they could let them know who the bull belonged to. We could not/would not/ did not give out that information. We told them we could contact the owner directly and let them know to contact the sheriff, but that we would not give them the owner's name.
I do not want to debate NAIS on here; we've already been through that can of worms on the Politics section.
EPA is too concerned with the minor stuff. I think this tax probably applied to large feedlots and pig farms, but once they tax the crap out of that sector, who knows when they'll move on to the rest of us. And people complain about why their food prices are going up. Gasoline prices be damned... it's the tax and fees and everything on the little guy!
more info on tax
11/14/2008Contact: Ken Hamilton, Executive Vice President, 307-721-7712, khamilton@wyfb.org
Cow tax proposal would threaten agriculture viability
"With the economy in bad shape and the possibility of a deep recession looming, the Environmental Protection Agency is proposing to levy new taxes—on cows and pigs," American Farm Bureau Federation Director of Regulatory Relations Rick Krause told Wyoming Farm Bureau members at their annual meeting. Krause spoke in Sheridan on Nov. 7.
"This is no laughing matter," Krause said. "The cow tax and the pig tax are parts of a larger scheme by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to regulate greenhouse gases under the Clean Air Act."
"Under the proposal, if a state charged the "presumptive minimum rate" from the EPA, the cow tax would be $175 per dairy cow, $87.50 per head for beef cattle and a little more than $20 per pig," Krause explained.
Krause explained that the U.S. Department of Agriculture says that a producer with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 beef cattle or 200 hogs would emit more than 100 tons of carbon and be subject to the permitting requirements. "These thresholds would impact 99 percent of dairy producers, over 90 percent of beef producers and 95 percent of hog producers in the United States," Krause stated.
According to Krause, the EPA has issued an Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking in preparation to regulate automobile greenhouse gas emissions under the Clean Air Act (CAA). "The regulation of automobile emissions automatically initiates other provisions of the CAA," Krause explained. "One of those provisions requires permits from anyone who emits more than 100 tons of a regulated pollutant per year and there are millions of sources that emit more than 100 tons of carbon."
The Title V permits, that are essentially a cow and pig tax, are supposed to contain provisions designed to reduce or eliminate the emissions of the regulated pollutant. "Cows and pigs methane emissions come from natural and biological processes," Krause stated.
"The economic costs to producers from the cow and pig tax would be great and could cause the cost of beef, pork and dairy prices to rise," Krause continued. "The cow and pig tax would impose severe penalties on livestock producers in the United States without effectively reducing greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere."
The comment deadline for the cow and pig tax is Nov. 28. Visit www.wyfb.org to find the link for information.
In other national issues, Krause addressed endangered species issues, including the wolf.
"I remember back in 1993 we were talking about how they will continue to change the numbers of wolves required," Krause said. "Unfortunately, our assumption was accurate and even though there are five times more packs than needed for recovery, it has come down to a federal judge in Montana."
"They are arguing there is no genetic exchange," He said. "Well, the whole reason in the first place they were introduced is because they could not get here on their own. How are you going to have genetic interchange?"
"So what are we going to expect from the Endangered Species Act in the next four years?" Krause asked. "While only time will tell, we can expect no amendments to the ESA as those who are opposed to common sense management will work to keep it as is."
The Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation is the state's largest general agriculture organization. Members work together from the grassroots to develop agricultural policy, programs and services to enhance the rural lifestyle of Wyoming.
Quote from: Tobina on November 21, 2008, 11:13:31 AM
Quote from: srkruzich on November 20, 2008, 06:35:50 PM
The good thing is NAIS was defeated this year so they have no clue as to who is growing what. IF they manage to get NAIS to pass then were screwed.
NAIS was not defeated this year. It was deemed to be more appropriate as a voluntary program. NAIS is for animal disease tracking, and the data is not made public or even made available to the government, unless a disease outbreak occurs.
FACT: Our company had the KS Dept of Ag call us up and tell us there was a bull out in a county that had an EID tag. The sheriff's office called them and wanted to find out who the owner was so they could let them know who the bull belonged to. We could not/would not/ did not give out that information. We told them we could contact the owner directly and let them know to contact the sheriff, but that we would not give them the owner's name.
I do not want to debate NAIS on here; we've already been through that can of worms on the Politics section.
EPA is too concerned with the minor stuff. I think this tax probably applied to large feedlots and pig farms, but once they tax the crap out of that sector, who knows when they'll move on to the rest of us. And people complain about why their food prices are going up. Gasoline prices be damned... it's the tax and fees and everything on the little guy!
Uhhhhh i must disagree, it was court ordered that they stop. I remember when the folks won the lawsuit against NAIS
Heres the article on it
Court Decision Suspends USDA's Efforts to Establish New Privacy Act System of Records for NAIS
Billings, Mont. (June 12, 2008) – R-CALF USA was pleased to learn that on June 4, 2008, the U.S. District Court – District of Columbia forced the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) to suspend indefinitely its plan to establish a new Privacy Act system of records titled "National Animal Identification System (NAIS)." In April, USDA proposed to establish the NAIS system of records, which was to become effective June 9, 2008, and had published a notice soliciting public comments. R-CALF USA and other organizations submitted comments with the agency in opposition to USDA's plan. The court-ordered suspension was a result of the Mary-Louise Zanoni v. United States Department of Agriculture case. The suspension was published in Tuesday's Federal Register.
In its comments to USDA, R-CALF USA states: "R-CALF maintains that USDA has misrepresented the purpose, scope and nature of its proposed new system of records, and that USDA's actual purposes of the proposed new system was simply to develop a national registry of real, personal and private property."
http://nonais.org/2008/06/17/court-reject-usda-nais-privacy/
I know i fought long and hard back in Georgia and here too when I moved here to stop NAIS from interfering in my life. The government has no business in my life, my animals and anything else i wish to do. And if the Aphis decide to resurrect NAIS, i'll fight it as hard as i have in the past few years.
Quote from: Tobina on November 21, 2008, 11:13:31 AM
Quote from: srkruzich on November 20, 2008, 06:35:50 PM
The good thing is NAIS was defeated this year so they have no clue as to who is growing what. IF they manage to get NAIS to pass then were screwed.
NAIS was not defeated this year. It was deemed to be more appropriate as a voluntary program. NAIS is for animal disease tracking, and the data is not made public or even made available to the government, unless a disease outbreak occurs.
FACT: Our company had the KS Dept of Ag call us up and tell us there was a bull out in a county that had an EID tag. The sheriff's office called them and wanted to find out who the owner was so they could let them know who the bull belonged to. We could not/would not/ did not give out that information. We told them we could contact the owner directly and let them know to contact the sheriff, but that we would not give them the owner's name.
I do not want to debate NAIS on here; we've already been through that can of worms on the Politics section.
EPA is too concerned with the minor stuff. I think this tax probably applied to large feedlots and pig farms, but once they tax the crap out of that sector, who knows when they'll move on to the rest of us. And people complain about why their food prices are going up. Gasoline prices be damned... it's the tax and fees and everything on the little guy!
I think that 4-H does a little bit of this. They place a tag that can be scanned during final weigh in. Personally if it will stop the cattle market from getting a bad name, that is fine with me.
As for the taxing the cattle and hogs, I don't see that happening. Because they collect taxes on the meat that they sell already. That would be double taxation. I am not that up on this stuff, and personally need to be, but it sounds like they are just throwing things around to get the cattle market in a roar. Of course, towards the end of every year and the first of the year, the market is always such a mess. I think that is because they know that we sell our feeder calves after the first of the year!!! >:(
Quote from: angtown3 on November 21, 2008, 01:53:55 PM
I think that 4-H does a little bit of this. They place a tag that can be scanned during final weigh in. Personally if it will stop the cattle market from getting a bad name, that is fine with me.
Nais has never been about anything other than government control of the food supply. IF they can control it they can control the population. How many hamburgers or steaks ahve you gotten in the last 10 years that had mad cow? Hmmm None huh. that quite frankly tells me NAIS is not needed.
What NAIS doesn't tell you is this, if it becomes mandatory, and if lets say your cattle get anthrax or hoof in mouth, they will come in and destroy not only your heard, place your place under quarantine but they will also quarantine and destroy everyone elses herds for a 3 -5 mile radius.
The ag department has already been around to farms designating patstures ad disposal sites in the event of such a outbreak. So if your like me and have a goat herd, and the guy across the street from me has goats and they get CL disease, the governmentwould come in and do what they do best. Their solution to disease control is scorched earth policy. kill everything.
The last thing and final insult to it would be that they would lock down your place until you foot the bill for them to clean the affected area. so essentially you will be bankrupt before its over and most likely lose everything in the process.
QuoteAs for the taxing the cattle and hogs, I don't see that happening. Because they collect taxes on the meat that they sell already. That would be double taxation.
Uhmm well not technially. They tax it anyway at every point of sale. You buy them pay tax. you raise them and sell them you pay tax. the person who buys them pays tax and when they sell they pay tax. and on and on it goes.
QuoteI am not that up on this stuff, and personally need to be, but it sounds like they are just throwing things around to get the cattle market in a roar. Of course, towards the end of every year and the first of the year, the market is always such a mess. I think that is because they know that we sell our feeder calves after the first of the year!!! >:(
Maybe but ignoring it is the fastest way they get taxes on things that we never thought would happen.
Tobina, I just want to tell you - I enjoy your posts and find them informative. If I don't understand something, I read your post and clearly understand the discussion. Thank you for making your posts clear and accurate. :)
Well, my biggest complaint is that how can they truly tax each and every cattle or animal in a herd. Are they going to drive around to everyone's farm, count everyone's herd, and then do the taxing?? That would cost us money, too!!! I am not a rocket scientist, but how are they really going to do this. I personally think that we over think and ruin what is good. By the we here I mean the government. I think that whether you know it or not the government is involved in your cattle business anyways. I think that any time you sell cattle, don't you pay a percentage to Beef Council or something like that??? I don't really know that much about these things. I need to sit down with Grandma and understand it all a little better. She could tell me the ins and outs. I didn't grow up on a farm. But my husband did. And cattle is our livelyhood. I just let him run his business and I run mine.
Tobina, you are a wealth of information!! I need to sit down with you too!! You have so much to offer this community, with your knowledge on the Animal industries that you work in. We need to get together and talk about all this stuff, so I can understand it more. I do know the difference between a Bull and a cow. Oh, I also know the difference between a steer and a heifer!! That's a start right???? :laugh:
Quote from: angtown3 on November 21, 2008, 06:16:51 PM
Well, my biggest complaint is that how can they truly tax each and every cattle or animal in a herd. Are they going to drive around to everyone's farm, count everyone's herd, and then do the taxing?? That would cost us money, too!!! I am not a rocket scientist, but how are they really going to do this. I personally think that we over think and ruin what is good. By the we here I mean the government. I think that whether you know it or not the government is involved in your cattle business anyways. I think that any time you sell cattle, don't you pay a percentage to Beef Council or something like that??? I don't really know that much about these things. I need to sit down with Grandma and understand it all a little better. She could tell me the ins and outs. I didn't grow up on a farm. But my husband did. And cattle is our livelyhood. I just let him run his business and I run mine.
Your right without NAIS which is a identification system they cannot tax every animal. They can't find out who owns what. But if they impliment it or even if you volenteer your information on your livestock to enter into their database they don't have to send the tax man out to count cattle. You do it for them.
Is there a social security number with your name next to it? Do you have a drivers license? If you don't then they can't give you a ticket because they don't know who you are. You won't have to pay taxes because you won't exist.
Have you ever registered to vote? Then you can't get away from not being a part of the government. I don't think you are on the right track with this one.
Let's take all the serial numbers off all the parts of our vehicles. That way no one can run our plates against the vin numbers....
If some one steals my truck, jacks some fertilizer, and blows up an IRS office they can't trace it back to me.
The reason that NAIS makes sense is that it allows you to market your products internationally. It provides a system to go back to the idiots that have the 4 year old animals that they are slaughtering and kick their Canadian ass. If your neighbor has a diseased animal wouldn't you want to know? I know we all think are farms are the cleanest in the world but it only takes one foreign bug to ruin it for every one.
Every one born in the United States is issued a birth certificate. Yet we can't find a whole list of people that rape, kill, mame, and try to not pay taxes. Even in Elk County the list of unpaid taxes takes up two or three pages of the paper.
Quote from: srkruzich on November 21, 2008, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: angtown3 on November 21, 2008, 01:53:55 PM
I think that 4-H does a little bit of this. They place a tag that can be scanned during final weigh in. Personally if it will stop the cattle market from getting a bad name, that is fine with me.
Nais has never been about anything other than government control of the food supply. IF they can control it they can control the population. How many hamburgers or steaks ahve you gotten in the last 10 years that had mad cow? Hmmm None huh. that quite frankly tells me NAIS is not needed.
What NAIS doesn't tell you is this, if it becomes mandatory, and if lets say your cattle get anthrax or hoof in mouth, they will come in and destroy not only your heard, place your place under quarantine but they will also quarantine and destroy everyone elses herds for a 3 -5 mile radius.
QuoteAs for the taxing the cattle and hogs, I don't see that happening. Because they collect taxes on the meat that they sell already. That would be double taxation.
Uhmm well not technially. They tax it anyway at every point of sale. You buy them pay tax. you raise them and sell them you pay tax. the person who buys them pays tax and when they sell they pay tax. and on and on it goes.
Quote
The USDA/KDA already has the authority to come in destroy diseased animals and quarentine. There is not a 3-5 mile radius. It depends on what is affected wheather it is air borne, water borne, or animal to animal contagen.
There is only three hundred million legal us citizens. That is just a percentage of the number of animals that will have eid tags. We should be imbracing the technology not hiding in the sand. If you have nothing to hide then it will not affect you. But if you are doing things that aren't quite right then you will not be able to market your animals/products effectively.
Clarification of facts:
NAIS is for live-animal disease tracking. The proposed system is only when animal leave the ranch of origin. You can keep hundreds of animals on your farm and they never have to be "tracked". It's only when they leave and go to a salebarn or feedlot, which is where commingling and disease transmission is most likely to occur. The latest information says that if they go straight from the ranch of origin to a packer, they don't have to be individually identified (b/c they are no longer LIVE). Canada already has a manadatory version of this program for cattle and bison. The proposed system is for individual ID for cattle (since cattle get separated, sorted, and commingled more often), and group ID for hogs, poultry, etc (animals that usually stay as a group throughout the process). This system does not tie age, quality, or any other characteristic of the animal to the farm of origin. It is a way to show that Animal 1 went from Point A to Point B and then commingled with Animal 2 at Point C.
Age and Source Verification for Beef Export Verification to Japan (BEV-J) is a USDA-Agriculture Marketing Service voluntary, value-added program where producers have to have auditable records about the age and source of the calves they raise. Producers have to be signed up and approved under a QSA or PVP program that is run by 3rd party companies (like the one I work for). Over the last year, the average premiums paid for ASV cattle under 21 months is $30 per head. Since Japan requires that beef shipped to that country are 20 months or younger (under 21 months), due to BSE/Mad Cow scares, there must be an audit trail from the packer all the way back to the producer. And the producer must keep birth records for 3 years, as well has have documentation on their processes on file. This is a completely voluntary, value-added program. Not all producers will qualify. There is normally a cost to becoming approved, along with survelliance audits.
IF thats all its for, then why make it mandetory. The truth is that its not just for beef or pork. Its for any animal that leaves the farm, not just going to the packing plant but to the rodeos, take your horse for a ride off property and you have to send in a report within 48 hours and pay the fee for filing report. Their including dogs in it too.
Listen to what their not saying, not what their saying. They're painting this rosy picture and not telling the truth. IF you get 1 cow in your herd with mad cow, what is to stop them from destroying your entire herd plus your neighbors herds and leaveing you with the cleanup cost?
Quote from: Tobina on November 24, 2008, 09:47:50 AM
Clarification of facts:
NAIS is for live-animal disease tracking. The proposed system is only when animal leave the ranch of origin. You can keep hundreds of animals on your farm and they never have to be "tracked". It's only when they leave and go to a salebarn or feedlot, which is where commingling and disease transmission is most likely to occur. The latest information says that if they go straight from the ranch of origin to a packer, they don't have to be individually identified (b/c they are no longer LIVE). Canada already has a manadatory version of this program for cattle and bison. The proposed system is for individual ID for cattle (since cattle get separated, sorted, and commingled more often), and group ID for hogs, poultry, etc (animals that usually stay as a group throughout the process). This system does not tie age, quality, or any other characteristic of the animal to the farm of origin. It is a way to show that Animal 1 went from Point A to Point B and then commingled with Animal 2 at Point C.
Age and Source Verification for Beef Export Verification to Japan (BEV-J) is a USDA-Agriculture Marketing Service voluntary, value-added program where producers have to have auditable records about the age and source of the calves they raise. Producers have to be signed up and approved under a QSA or PVP program that is run by 3rd party companies (like the one I work for). Over the last year, the average premiums paid for ASV cattle under 21 months is $30 per head. Since Japan requires that beef shipped to that country are 20 months or younger (under 21 months), due to BSE/Mad Cow scares, there must be an audit trail from the packer all the way back to the producer. And the producer must keep birth records for 3 years, as well has have documentation on their processes on file. This is a completely voluntary, value-added program. Not all producers will qualify. There is normally a cost to becoming approved, along with survelliance audits.
Quote from: pepelect on November 22, 2008, 06:55:18 PM
Is there a social security number with your name next to it? Do you have a drivers license? If you don't then they can't give you a ticket because they don't know who you are. You won't have to pay taxes because you won't exist.
Just because i have a SS number register to vote or have a license, doesn't mean i have to give government control of my life. any one of them show up without a warrant and they'll be leaving fast with lead flying!
Quote
The reason that NAIS makes sense is that it allows you to market your products internationally. It provides a system to go back to the idiots that have the 4 year old animals that they are slaughtering and kick their Canadian ass. If your neighbor has a diseased animal wouldn't you want to know? I know we all think are farms are the cleanest in the world but it only takes one foreign bug to ruin it for every one.
Ok who around here sells to japan? The last i see is folks take their livestock to feedlots over in west kansas or sells at auctions. I highly doubt anyone has direct contracts with japan. Thats going to be the large corps that make that money
QuoteEvery one born in the United States is issued a birth certificate.
soo?
Its just a record of birth, not a tracking device.
[/quote]The USDA/KDA already has the authority to come in destroy diseased animals and quarentine. There is not a 3-5 mile radius. It depends on what is affected wheather it is air borne, water borne, or animal to animal contagen.
[/quote]
NAIS has a list of diseases that they won't make public. Why? Because they will destroy the entire herd including neighbors herds and they know if people learn of this they won't be allowed to go any further with their plans.
QuoteThere is only three hundred million legal us citizens. That is just a percentage of the number of animals that will have eid tags. We should be imbracing the technology not hiding in the sand.
Just because the world has tv's doesn't mean i want one. I don't have one and have no need for one.
QuoteIf you have nothing to hide then it will not affect you.
BULL PUCKY! Its not anyones business what i might or might not have to hide. Government has no business in my business unless invited.
QuoteBut if you are doing things that aren't quite right then you will not be able to market your animals/products effectively.
Then thats my choice, and if in my choices i make bad decisions regarding selling or trading in sick animals then the market will put me out of business. It won't be long before no one will buy your product if its defective.
When was the last time government didn't screw up any program royally. Hell, the usda can't even inspect beef right, remember jack in the box restaurant, or how many recalls of beef due to ecoli. You don't get ecoli unless your packing plants are nasty, and its the job of the USDA to inspect these plants isn't it?
Question for you srkruzich.
How many Dairy Cows, Beef Cattle and/or Hogs do you own or care for?
Did I miss this somewhere????
Just wondering!!!
Quote from: bfrankjack on November 30, 2008, 12:27:11 AM
Question for you srkruzich.
How many Dairy Cows, Beef Cattle and/or Hogs do you own or care for?
Did I miss this somewhere????
Just wondering!!!
I have some beef, some pigs, some chickens, lots of goats, a horse
Do you raise and sell any of them for the income you live on? Are you helping to feed the millions that are unable to raise their own? Do you slaughter and butcher all the meat that you eat? Not everybody can and we have to depend on some else to assure us that what we are getting is healthy and clean. I, for one, if I did have a beef herd would want the assurance that my neighbors herds are just as healthy and clean as mine are.
Quote from: Wilma on November 30, 2008, 08:26:45 AM
Do you raise and sell any of them for the income you live on? Are you helping to feed the millions that are unable to raise their own?
No thats what the big producers do, but their exempt from NAIS. Thats the rub of the whole thing. They don't have to register their herds or flocks.
QuoteDo you slaughter and butcher all the meat that you eat?
Yes i do. can't afford to have anyone do it for me and this year i get to learn how to butcher a pig.
QuoteNot everybody can and we have to depend on some else to assure us that what we are getting is healthy and clean. I, for one, if I did have a beef herd would want the assurance that my neighbors herds are just as healthy and clean as mine are.
I can't sell anything butchered :) Its against the law. Secondly, the most common diesease showing up in our beef is ecoli. You can't stop that on the farm, thats directly caused by the processing which the USDA is SUPPOSED to inspect these shops for cleanliness, which isn't happening apparantly, and NAIS isn't going to stop that.
Why would any rancher NOT down a diseased cow or pig or any other animal. It only hurts them in the long run to try and move it through the food chain. I can understand missing one but how is NAIS supposed to stop that? It doesn't. All it does is track it back to their ranch and what the USDA will end up doing is destroying any livestock on that ranch as well as around that ranch. It'll sure suck badly to be a neighbor of that ranch with a healthy herd cause you will lose it and will be shut down til you foot the bill for cleanup costs.
I for one wouldn't want that on any neighbor. The best way to keep your herd healthy is to run a closed herd. Once you do that theres no chance of injecting disease into your herds.
I had this discussion once many moons ago on here.............just for the record...NAIS is just one more way for the big guys to put the little guys out of business and make it so you CAN"T afford to raise your own any more. One more example of too much government where it don't need to be. Not interested in arguing about it...no1. it won't do any good, people who think it's a good idea think it's a good idea and won't change their minds till it bites em in the ass. no2. I'm not changin my opinion either. no3. I'm fightin it any chance I get.
Quote from: pam on November 30, 2008, 10:13:45 AM
I had this discussion once many moons ago on here.............just for the record...NAIS is just one more way for the big guys to put the little guys out of business and make it so you CAN"T afford to raise your own any more. One more example of too much government where it don't need to be. Not interested in arguing about it...no1. it won't do any good, people who think it's a good idea think it's a good idea and won't change their minds till it bites em in the ass. no2. I'm not changin my opinion either. no3. I'm fightin it any chance I get.
well i know this much, what big brother doesn't see big brother can't do anything about
srkruich -
Some, what number is that? 10? 20? 100?
Lots? Guessing it is more than some? 200?
I do understand "A" horse.
Don't worry I'm not the government or work for a government agency. I would just like to know. It might help me and maybe others understand some of your thoughts.
So on to the next question......
What the do you mean by "closed herd'?
Hang in there srkruzich . There are LOTS and LOTS out there that are on your side.. and agree with all you are saying. ( and the amount is growing)
One more foot in the door... one more freedom gone.
Who around here sells to Japan? Creekstone Farms Packing Plant at Arkansas City ships beef to Japan and Korea on a daily basis. I know this as fact, as a friend of mine is a USDA inspector there and has to fill out the paperwork for it to be shipped to those countries. -- Tim
Quote from: bfrankjack on November 30, 2008, 10:35:30 AM
srkruich -
Some, what number is that? 10? 20? 100?
Lots? Guessing it is more than some? 200?
I do understand "A" horse.
Don't worry I'm not the government or work for a government agency. I would just like to know. It might help me and maybe others understand some of your thoughts.
[/quote]
24 goats, 3 cows, 1 horse, 150 chickens, dozen rabbits, 8 dogs, 1 llama, 4 pigs, 1 guinea so far.
QuoteSo on to the next question......
What the do you mean by "closed herd'?
A closed herd is where you do not bring in any animal to replenish your stock. You have enough breeders to supply you with your sales stock.
Once you close the herd you eliminate injecting disease into your herd. You have enough genetic diversity in your breeders to prevent problems in the future. You don't allow anyone access to your property without going through bio security to prevent disease from being brought onto your farm through transfer from clothing.
Most folks that do closed herds do AI. Thats a way to inject new DNA into a closed herd without risking exposure.
Quote from: Marcia Moore on November 30, 2008, 02:50:20 PM
Who around here sells to Japan? Creekstone Farms Packing Plant at Arkansas City ships beef to Japan and Korea on a daily basis. I know this as fact, as a friend of mine is a USDA inspector there and has to fill out the paperwork for it to be shipped to those countries. -- Tim
so why is it worth a 3-4 dollar per hundred weight to sell to japan under nais. It cost more or will cost more to register send all the forms and paperwork in once it is in place and forced on us. Isn't 3-4 dollars per hundred weight worth keeping government out of your lives as much as possible?
srkruzich
Don't look like you are going to have to worry about the tax yet on your cow herd! But if I was you I'd be watchin those chickens! (-:
Do you AI your 3 cows?
I seem to remember a time when the county appraiser came to your farm, counted your cows, etc., listed your machinery, even listed your dog(s) and you were taxed on it. Remember that?
No Wilma I don't. But I did read, that way back that if you had a jackrussell on the farm and had his tail docked they couldn't tax him. That meant he was a work dog. Killing rats and such. How about that?
Quote from: bfrankjack on December 01, 2008, 07:23:56 AM
srkruzich
Don't look like you are going to have to worry about the tax yet on your cow herd! But if I was you I'd be watchin those chickens! (-:
Do you AI your 3 cows?
I will be if i want purebred. If all i'm after is beef i might just borrow a bull :) Yeah i dont have to worry on the tax, just NAIS. That if its forced on us will cost more than i can afford by the time you pay out for readers, tags, registration fees, report fees, and tax.
But honestly i don't believe that the EPA will stop at the numbers they give. I'll be more inclined to believe that once they get control and do tax the larger producers, that they will go after the smaller mom and pop farms. Too much money to be made off of us.
Trying to stay with Subject of Cow/beef/pig tax.
You know they are throwing this in with so much other stuff cars/buildings/houses ect..!
Greenhouse Gas Emissions Under the Clean Air Act
I think it's a little overboard with the livestock. Eco System!!!! Plants/Animals/Water they all need each other! RIGHT?!
This is like a 168 page document the last I checked.
And no, I haven't read all of it.
Quote from: bfrankjack on December 01, 2008, 12:59:18 PM
Trying to stay with Subject of Cow/beef/pig tax.
You know they are throwing this in with so much other stuff cars/buildings/houses ect..!
Greenhouse Gas Emissions Under the Clean Air Act
I think it's a little overboard with the livestock. Eco System!!!! Plants/Animals/Water they all need each other! RIGHT?!
This is like a 168 page document the last I checked.
And no, I haven't read all of it.
Its nothing more than a big money grab. :( THey gotta back off of us.
Yeah, it's the money grab along with the control too. It's kinda like you got to pay them to tell you how to do it.
And if they would leave you alone... You can do it just fine.. and much better than if they get their paws in there.
((Had to stick my (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/twocents.gif) in there.. ;) )
Quote from: srkruzich on November 30, 2008, 03:14:34 PM
so why is it worth a 3-4 dollar per hundred weight to sell to japan under nais.
Again, I refer to my earlier clarification post. NAIS has nothing to do with selling beef to Japan. Period. NAIS is for LIVE animal tracking from farm to farm to feedlot to packer. It ends there. USDA PVP/QSA Age and Source verification program (ran by a different arm of USDA than NAIS) is designed to keep track of birthdates on cattle so the beef can be verified to be under 21 months of age. You can be involved in a PVP program and not agree with NAIS. And you can voluntarily participate in NAIS and not qualify for PVP.
NAIS has been cussed and discussed on a Politics thread. Everyone has a right to their own opinion; I'd appreciate it if you didn't trash mine.
For this orginal post about the EPA tax (which is again has NOTHING to do with Japan or NAIS)... here is some information on where you can put your official comments (sorry, this is a little long):
ACTION EPA DE FACTO TAX ON COWS AND HOGS
ISSUE:
On July 30, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) published an Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to regulate greenhouse gas emissions from automobiles under the Clean Air Act. If EPA finds that greenhouse gas (GHG) (carbon dioxide, methane or nitrous oxide) emissions endanger public health and welfare and should be classified as a pollutant, it will trigger the automatic application of other sections of the Clean Air Act. This will have consequences for many sectors of the economy, including the direct regulation of agriculture under the Clean Air Act for the first time.
One of the provisions that would automatically be triggered is Title V, which requires any entity that emits more than 100 tons of a regulated pollutant per year to obtain a permit. USDA calculates that any agricultural operation with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 head of beef cattle or 200 hogs emit more than 100 tons and would be required to obtain a permit. (Other types of agricultural production would also be directly subject to or indirectly affected by the Title V permit requirement.) AFBF submitted comments opposing the rule making and plans to file more detailed comments by the comment deadline. A copy of AFBFs comments is attached along with talking points.
IMPACT:
USDA statistics indicate that the permit requirement would include 99 percent of milk production, more than 90 percent of beef production and more than 95 percent of all hog production in the United States . The permit fee varies from state to state, but for states using the EPA presumptive minimum rate this could amount to $175 per dairy cow, $87.50 per beef cattle and over $20 per hog. This amounts to a de facto tax on cows and hogs.
ACTION:
The Advance Notice is open for public comment until November 28. We are asking state Farm Bureaus to submit comments opposing the regulation of GHGs under the Clean Air Act. We also ask state Farm Bureaus to get as many of their members as possible to submit comments opposing this rulemaking. We have attached some information and materials to assist in this effort. Submit your comments, identified by Docket ID No. EPA-HQ-OAR-2008-0318, by one of the following methods:
1. www.regulations.gov: Follow the on-line instructions for submitting comments;
2. E-mail: a-and-rDocket@epa.gov;
3. Fax: 202-566-9744;
4. Mail: Air and Radiation Docket and Information Center , Environmental Protection Agency, Mailcode: 2822T, 1200 Pennsylvania Ave. , NW., Washington , DC 20460 . In addition, please mail a copy of your comments on the information collection provisions to the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, Office of Management and Budget (OMB), Attn: Desk Officer for EPA, 725 17th St. , NW., Washington, DC 20503; or
5. Hand Delivery: EPA Docket Center , EPA West Building , Room 3334, 1301 Constitution Ave. , NW., Washington DC , 20004 . Such deliveries are only accepted during the Docket's normal hours of operation, and special arrangements should be made for deliveries of boxed information. Instructions: Direct your comments to Docket ID No. EPA-HQ-OAR-2008-0318.
Even though this deadline has passed, sometimes they'll open the comment period up for longer when it's a hot topic and they didn't do a good job of notifying people.
Quote from: Teresa on December 01, 2008, 04:33:23 PM
And if they would leave you alone... You can do it just fine.. and much better than if they get their paws in there.
((Had to stick my (http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/twocents.gif) in there.. ;) )
Yeah no kidding. I have raised enough livestock in my years to know when one is sick and what to do with it! Don't need some government weenie coming in telling me what he learned in some Government school
Quote from: Tobina on December 01, 2008, 05:19:40 PM
Quote from: srkruzich on November 30, 2008, 03:14:34 PM
so why is it worth a 3-4 dollar per hundred weight to sell to japan under nais.
Again, I refer to my earlier clarification post. NAIS has nothing to do with selling beef to Japan. Period. NAIS is for LIVE animal tracking from farm to farm to feedlot to packer. It ends there.
Sorry tobina it sure does. Japan won't buy beef without the NAIS. The only incentive i have seen is that you get a 3 -4 dollar per hundred weight more if you participate in NAIS
QuoteUSDA PVP/QSA Age and Source verification program (ran by a different arm of USDA than NAIS) is designed to keep track of birthdates on cattle so the beef can be verified to be under 21 months of age. You can be involved in a PVP program and not agree with NAIS. And you can voluntarily participate in NAIS and not qualify for PVP.
NAIS has been cussed and discussed on a Politics thread. Everyone has a right to their own opinion; I'd appreciate it if you didn't trash mine.
No one is trashing yours. NAIS isn't what you have been led to believe. IF NAIS Is so innocent a program why do they try to force it on us and it is not voluntarily. ALL that happened last year was APHIS backed off from making it a federal mandate that you had to be in it and got the states to make it mandatory. Wisconsin is mandatory now, Michigan farmers were smart and sued the state and won for now.
QuoteFor this original post about the EPA tax (which is again has NOTHING to do with Japan or NAIS)... here is some information on where you can put your official comments (sorry, this is a little long):
ACTION EPA DE FACTO TAX ON COWS AND HOGS
ISSUE:
On July 30, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) published an Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to regulate greenhouse gas emissions from automobiles under the Clean Air Act. If EPA finds that greenhouse gas (GHG) (carbon dioxide, methane or nitrous oxide) emissions endanger public health and welfare and should be classified as a pollutant, it will trigger the automatic application of other sections of the Clean Air Act. This will have consequences for many sectors of the economy, including the direct regulation of agriculture under the Clean Air Act for the first time.
One of the provisions that would automatically be triggered is Title V, which requires any entity that emits more than 100 tons of a regulated pollutant per year to obtain a permit. USDA calculates that any agricultural operation with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 head of beef cattle or 200 hogs emit more than 100 tons and would be required to obtain a permit. (Other types of agricultural production would also be directly subject to or indirectly affected by the Title V permit requirement.) AFBF submitted comments opposing the rule making and plans to file more detailed comments by the comment deadline. A copy of AFBFs comments is attached along with talking points.
IMPACT:
USDA statistics indicate that the permit requirement would include 99 percent of milk production, more than 90 percent of beef production and more than 95 percent of all hog production in the United States . The permit fee varies from state to state, but for states using the EPA presumptive minimum rate this could amount to $175 per dairy cow, $87.50 per beef cattle and over $20 per hog. This amounts to a de facto tax on cows and hogs.
ACTION:
The Advance Notice is open for public comment until November 28. We are asking state Farm Bureaus to submit comments opposing the regulation of GHGs under the Clean Air Act. We also ask state Farm Bureaus to get as many of their members as possible to submit comments opposing this rulemaking. We have attached some information and materials to assist in this effort. Submit your comments, identified by Docket ID No. EPA-HQ-OAR-2008-0318, by one of the following methods:
1. www.regulations.gov: Follow the on-line instructions for submitting comments;
2. E-mail: a-and-rDocket@epa.gov;
3. Fax: 202-566-9744;
4. Mail: Air and Radiation Docket and Information Center , Environmental Protection Agency, Mailcode: 2822T, 1200 Pennsylvania Ave. , NW., Washington , DC 20460 . In addition, please mail a copy of your comments on the information collection provisions to the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, Office of Management and Budget (OMB), Attn: Desk Officer for EPA, 725 17th St. , NW., Washington, DC 20503; or
5. Hand Delivery: EPA Docket Center , EPA West Building , Room 3334, 1301 Constitution Ave. , NW., Washington DC , 20004 . Such deliveries are only accepted during the Docket's normal hours of operation, and special arrangements should be made for deliveries of boxed information. Instructions: Direct your comments to Docket ID No. EPA-HQ-OAR-2008-0318.
Even though this deadline has passed, sometimes they'll open the comment period up for longer when it's a hot topic and they didn't do a good job of notifying people.
I posted my comment already but the EPA cannot possibly tax every cow without a database of every cow. SOoooo that leaves only one thing that is almost in place. NAIS.
srkruzich - POLITICS! NAIS is the subjet there! She (Tobina) is right!!! (-:
It's like 8 pages! Have a good read!
As far as Cow, Beef & Pig Tax maybe this should move over to Politics also. That way we could keep them seperate?
Then maybe my little country pea brain could keep up (-: with the subject at hand!
Let's keep everybody on their toes and thinking!!!
(-: Happy Days in God's Country :-)
Quote from: bfrankjack on December 01, 2008, 09:37:23 PM
srkruzich - POLITICS! NAIS is the subjet there! She (Tobina) is right!!! (-:
It's like 8 pages! Have a good read!
As far as Cow, Beef & Pig Tax maybe this should move over to Politics also. That way we could keep them seperate?
Then maybe my little country pea brain could keep up (-: with the subject at hand!
Let's keep everybody on their toes and thinking!!!
(-: Happy Days in God's Country :-)
I think that the problem is i don't trust government. I don't trust our congress, our president, USDA, or the cops. I don't trust anything they do, or any program they implement. Our forefathers didn't either. It is a necessary evil in which its only purpose is to provide defense against enemies that attack us. To usurp the power from the constitution to become a nanny state is all that is happening with our government and I don't care if it is NAIS or if its EPA, its all suspect. The less government has to do with our lives the better off we are.
Yet, if you were having a heart attack, you would call 911, or if your cattle were rustled you would call the law, your barn on fire you would call the fire department. How long do you think you would last with your shotgun, if invaders attacked you? Be thankful for the government that protects us even though it isn't providing us with every little thing our hearts desire.
Wilma, well said.
Quote from: Wilma on December 02, 2008, 08:57:27 AM
Yet, if you were having a heart attack, you would call 911,
I did one time, it took them 45 minutes to get to my house. I waited about 10 minutes and left, By that time i had driven myself to the hospital and was getting treatment.
Quoteor if your cattle were rustled you would call the law, your barn on fire you would call the fire department. How long do you think you would last with your shotgun, if invaders attacked you?
LOL long enough. :) Shotgun is mighty good weapon for dealing with invaders. But first of all, i dont' count on the law. Not much they can do when your cow is gone. So i prevent the cow from being rustled. :) Good dogs and a 30 -06 will take care of that. But those agents, when you grant them permission to come onto your property for a specific event, doesn't give them a permanent license to enter your property. :)
QuoteBe thankful for the government that protects us even though it isn't providing us with every little thing our hearts desire.
?? I despise government as did our forefathers. IF Government were to quit injecting itself into everything we do, i might feel safer from government. But like thomas jefferson and ben franklin, adams, and the great men who founded our country believed, we should keep our government fearful of us, not be afraid of it and to do that we have to reign in government and control it and force it to submit to us.
So are you never going to accept a Social Security check? Are you going to take down your mailbox? Are you going to return any stimulus checks that might be sent to you?
You're missin the forest for the trees,........
social security isn't from the government...it's from yourself by WAY of the government.
ditto with the stimulus check......
if you don't want to pay the US postal service use somebody else....send all your stuff UPS or FEDEX lol
Quotelike thomas jefferson and ben franklin, adams, and the great men who founded our country believed, we should keep our government fearful of us, not be afraid of it and to do that we have to reign in government and control it and force it to submit to us.
Exactly. They have a job because WE GAVE IT TO THEM!
There is a sayin that nails it.......Sure you can trust the US government.....just ask any NDN
No, Steve, you are very mistaken. NAIS and the export of beef to Japan is NOT the same program! I can guarantee you that. The company I work for is VERY involved in getting people trained and approved for age and source verification under a USDA PVP program, and none of the data goes into any NAIS database, nor do you even have to have an official Premises ID to participate in that program.
NAIS is run by USDA-APHIS (Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service)
PVP/QSA for Beef Export to Japan is run by USDA-AMS (Agriculture Marketing Services)
Premiums are only being paid for Age and Source verified animals under 21 months, not NAIS ones.
Quote from: pam on December 03, 2008, 09:39:29 AM
You're missin the forest for the trees,........
social security isn't from the government...it's from yourself by WAY of the government.
ditto with the stimulus check......
if you don't want to pay the US postal service use somebody else....send all your stuff UPS or FEDEX lol
Social Security is a government program. Sure we paid into it because we had to. It is the law. If we hadn't been forced (by the governent) to pay into it, I wouldn't have enough income to live on now. We would never have saved it. Ditto the government sponsored IRAs. If they hadn't been a huge tax reduction incentive, we would never had invested in them.
The stimulus checks are not from anything we owed the government as in an income tax refund. Sure they come from tax money. Everything connected with the government is from tax money. Heck, the government is us. We just have people that are paid to run it for us.
So what we are ranting about is ourselves. Right?
Lol Wilma...I reckon you could look at it that way.
Seems like I read that SS was created to keep money in circulation in the economy since the other pension system was expiring. Who knows, folks might have been better off without SS.
Quote from: Wilma on December 03, 2008, 11:20:30 AM
Quote from: pam on December 03, 2008, 09:39:29 AM
You're missin the forest for the trees,........
social security isn't from the government...it's from yourself by WAY of the government.
ditto with the stimulus check......
if you don't want to pay the US postal service use somebody else....send all your stuff UPS or FEDEX lol
Social Security is a government program. Sure we paid into it because we had to. It is the law. If we hadn't been forced (by the governent) to pay into it, I wouldn't have enough income to live on now. We would never have saved it. Ditto the government sponsored IRAs. If they hadn't been a huge tax reduction incentive, we would never had invested in them.
IF i had of had the 118,000 dollars i paid into social security, invested in the market, I would have well over a couple million right now. As it is, the government Isn't going to return to me a fraction of that 2 million i would have had if i had not been forced to put my money into that program.
QuoteThe stimulus checks are not from anything we owed the government as in an income tax refund. Sure they come from tax money. Everything connected with the government is from tax money. Heck, the government is us. We just have people that are paid to run it for us.
So what we are ranting about is ourselves. Right?
I believe that the stimulus checks were a refund to those that paid taxes but it got given to everyone cause dems were screaming it was unfair.
Quote from: redcliffsw on December 03, 2008, 12:57:52 PM
Seems like I read that SS was created to keep money in circulation in the economy since the other pension system was expiring. Who knows, folks might have been better off without SS.
Oh folks would be better off today if it were privatized and we could invest it in better income generating avenues. As it is the govt can't keep up with this ponzi scheme.
If you paid that much into social security, then why don't you have a check big enough to keep you the way mine is keeping me? I can assure you that I am not having to raise livestock, milk cows, gather eggs, grind my wheat and bake my bread to manage.
My husband and I have already drawn out of his account twice what you have paid in.
Quote from: Wilma on December 03, 2008, 08:41:30 PM
If you paid that much into social security, then why don't you have a check big enough to keep you the way mine is keeping me? I can assure you that I am not having to raise livestock, milk cows, gather eggs, grind my wheat and bake my bread to manage.
My husband and I have already drawn out of his account twice what you have paid in.
because i only get 60% of my check. But grinding my own wheat, milking my own cows raising my own livestock, i can get better food than i can buy in the store. You can't get food that good anywhere but straight off the farm. Secondly, I enjoy my animals, and growing things. And when i get my greenhouse set up i'll be growing perennials to sell. Why buy when you can produce.
You know if i draw 2 times what i put in that still nothing compared to what i would have if i had been allowed to invest it as i see fit. The only reason were not allowed to is the politicians would lose thier ace in the hole every election by scaring the seniors every time they start saying one party is going to cut the social security.
You know it wouldn't do good things for the politicians if their constituants had control of their futures and social security.
Ok, this topic has gotten way off base. It started about the tax on animals, and we are now talking about Social Security. I can see where the two fit, but I am just glad to live in a free country!! Where I can at least speak my mind!! Have you ever looked at your animals and thought how you got them?? Do you know who created you?? We have what we have because of one person and one person only and that is GOD!! We should be thankful for having a roof over our head, food to eat, and most of all we are alive and get to see the wonderful things that GOD has created. We have freedom of speech, and lots of other freedoms. I don't get to excited about what the government plans to do. I just take one day at a time. More healthy for me that way. I like the rights that I do have, and here in Elk county we are lucky. For the most part, no one tells us how to do alot of things. We only have to please ourselves. We have that luxtury that most don't have!
So, I guess what I am trying to say is that we should feel lucky that we have what we have!! I do. Times are changing, not always for the best, but we have to take the good with the bad and embrace them both! I have a business, and with the economy the way it is, it is really affecting us. But we just do what we can to make the best of every situation. I don't live in a mansion, but I do have food, water, and heat. What more could a person ask for???
What more could we ask for?
Your outlook on life, Angie. Being happy with what we have instead of complaining about what we don't have and blaming someone else for it. You sound a lot like your mother and grandmother.
Amen Wilma, Amen!
Just found this....it's from the AP......imagine that PETA is backin it.....bigger bunch of goobers never existed than PETA, they are ridiculous. If they can't guilt you into bein a vegetarian they are gonna try to force it on you. Hate to be the one to break it to em..but that lettuce they eat was alive till somebody cut it's head off and murdered it. All those natural fiber clothes they wear were living beings before they were harvested to cater to their vanity ::) ;) All those plants on those big vegetable farms only exist for their own selfish enjoyment ;) they only exist to die for their selfish survival :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I go vegetarian on occasion just for a changeup for my system...sometimes it's good for you. Balance people balance. I like steak with my salad! ;D
MONTGOMERY, Ala. - For farmers, this stinks: Belching and gaseous cows and hogs could start costing them money if a federal proposal to charge fees for air-polluting animals becomes law.
Farmers so far are turning their noses up at the notion, which is one of several put forward by the Environmental Protection Agency after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that greenhouse gases amount to air pollution. Livestock emit methane, a key greenhouse gas tied to global warming.
"This is one of the most ridiculous things the federal government has tried to do," said Alabama Agriculture Commissioner Ron Sparks, an outspoken opponent of the proposal.
It would require farms or ranches with more than 25 dairy cows, 50 beef cattle or 200 hogs to pay an annual fee of about $175 for each dairy cow, $87.50 per head of beef cattle and $20 for each hog.
The executive vice president of the Wyoming Farm Bureau Federation, Ken Hamilton, estimated the fee would cost owners of a modest-sized cattle ranch $30,000 to $40,000 a year. He said he has talked to a number of livestock owners about the proposals, and "all have said if the fees were carried out, it would bankrupt them."
Sparks said he's worried the fee could be extended to chickens and other farm animals and cause more meat to be imported.
"We'll let other countries put food on our tables like they are putting gas in our cars. Other countries don't have the health standards we have," Sparks said.
EPA spokesman Nick Butterfield said the fee was proposed for farms with livestock operations that emit more than 100 tons of carbon emissions in a year and fall under federal Clean Air Act provisions.
Butterfield said the EPA has not taken a position on any of the proposals. But farmers from across the country have expressed outrage over the idea, both on Internet sites and in opinions sent to EPA during a public comment period that ended last week.
"It's something that really has a very big potential adverse impact for the livestock industry," said Rick Krause, the senior director of congressional relations for the American Farm Bureau Federation.
The fee would cover the cost of a permit for the livestock operations. While farmers say it would drive them out of business, an organization supporting the proposal hopes it forces the farms and ranches to switch to healthier crops.
Quote from: pam on December 05, 2008, 01:16:59 PM
"It's something that really has a very big potential adverse impact for the livestock industry," said Rick Krause, the senior director of congressional relations for the American Farm Bureau Federation.
The fee would cover the cost of a permit for the livestock operations. While farmers say it would drive them out of business, an organization supporting the proposal hopes it forces the farms and ranches to switch to healthier crops.
Now why in the world would i need permission from the Government to raise my critters. Who died and made them God.
They can take their permit and shove it.
I would like to take every one of those city slicker idiots and put them in a feed lot with about 200 head of feeder cattle and just listen to them beg to get out. They are without a doubt the worst of the worse.
Ha, ha, ha! Now it seems like hating PETA is something we can ALL agree on!
Quote from: Tobina on December 08, 2008, 05:44:56 PM
Ha, ha, ha! Now it seems like hating PETA is something we can ALL agree on!
Now i don't hate PETA, I am a card carrying member! I sure am glad i found the group that calls themselves People Eating Tasty Animals :)