I was having a water problem so I went to the city council meeting to discuss.
The problem I have is that every time the Kansas weather unleashes a torrent or rain I get water in my basement at the store. It is a common problem. You say why would the city be involved? I think the source of the water is the giant well that is in the intersection of Wabash and Randolph. Every time the water is coming out of the center of the street the sump pumps are running at full force.
I asked if the water was needed or if the well could be drained and filled.
Come to find out the well and water system feeding it was built to provide water for fire fighting in the greater downtown area inside the beltway. The cistern is still listed as a backup source. Lets clean in out and start using it as a new asset to the area.
To my proposal is to utilize it as it was designed. Provide a way to pump and use the water for fighting fires.
We could build a round a bout around the center of the street and install a raised tank or fountain base if you will. The water could be pumped up in the air as a geyser or in times of need pumped into the giant 750 gallon per minute sucking big ass firetruck.
This would serve many purposes:
- It would eliminate the maintenance need for 4 stop signs that no one stops at anyway.
- It would provide needed emergency water for the fire fighting.
- Justification for the water in my basement
- Are there other benefits?
Because roundabouts improve the efficiency of traffic flow, they also reduce vehicle emissions and fuel consumption. In one study, replacing a signalized intersection with a roundabout reduced carbon monoxide emissions by 29 percent and nitrous oxide emissions by 21 percent.9 In another study, replacing traffic signals and stop signs with roundabouts reduced carbon monoxide emissions by 32 percent, nitrous oxide emissions by 34 percent, carbon dioxide emissions by 37 percent, and hydrocarbon emissions by 42 percent.10 Constructing roundabouts in place of traffic signals can reduce fuel consumption by about 30 percent.9,11 At 10 intersections studied in Virginia, this amounted to more than 200,000 gallons of fuel per year.8 And roundabouts can enhance aesthetics by providing landscaping opportunities.
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Patrick -
I think a fountain in the middle of downtown is an excellent idea - especially if it has a hook-up for the fire trucks in case of a downtown fire.
But . . . to put in a roundabout? ??? As a way to reduce on vehicle emissions? ???
Do we have enough traffic to have vehicle emissions to reduce. :D :D :D
Oh - and the fountain downtown - we could use it for water games during the Elk River Festival. :D :laugh:
The best way to determine what good or evils that a roundabout would bring would be to hire a city planner/engineering office to present you with the results that other cities have faced. Newton has a roundabout...Hutch also. It's a good idea, Patrick.
Is the intersection big enough for a roundabout or would we have to cut the corners off all the corner buildings, ie: the drug store, both banks, etc?
Roundabouts are an idea that comes and goes over the years. I can see one problem with having one in downtown Howard...how exactly are you going to get all of the horses, cars, trucks, and floats down the street when having your parades? A roundabout might present a real obstacle to continuing a Howard, America, tradition.
:D :D :D :D Good One CW!!! :D :D :D :D
The intersection right outside the front gate of the university, where i work, is a five-point intersection. That in and of itself is confusing to some folks, however, it was turned into a round-about. What a nightmare. Maybe in a world where it isn't every man for himself-it's all about me and I don't care about you - this could work. It doesn't. Apparently people can't figure out how to use it and it creates a lot of traffic delays. We thought it would get better once folks got used to it. It's been in place for three years now. The traffic just keeps getting worse. I wouldn't wish a round-about on anybody!!!
Quote from: Wilma on October 25, 2008, 09:11:39 AM
Is the intersection big enough for a roundabout or would we have to cut the corners off all the corner buildings, ie: the drug store, both banks, etc?
Let's see, we could have drive through banks, drive through grocery/drugstore, drivethrough etc, etc! ;D ;D
Quote from: Dale Smith on October 25, 2008, 01:11:29 PM
The intersection right outside the front gate of the university, where i work, is a five-point intersection. That in and of itself is confusing to some folks, however, it was turned into a round-about. What a nightmare. Maybe in a world where it isn't every man for himself-it's all about me and I don't care about you - this could work. It doesn't. Apparently people can't figure out how to use it and it creates a lot of traffic delays. We thought it would get better once folks got used to it. It's been in place for three years now. The traffic just keeps getting worse. I wouldn't wish a round-about on anybody!!!
Your opinion is what most people end up saying, once they have one. However, Patrick has a valid concern...how to keep his business from being inundated with water when it rains the right amount. Would there be a way to install some sort of tranfer line to take the water away from that particular point to a place where the water could be held until needed in case of fire? I don't think you'd want the water in that cistern to be utilized in any other way, given what might be growing in that water.
QuoteI can see one problem with having one in downtown Howard...how exactly are you going to get all of the horses, cars, trucks, and floats down the street when having your parades? A roundabout might present a real obstacle to continuing a Howard, America, tradition.
That's simple. Just have the parade start at the north end of Washington, swing around the fountain and head back for the second pass. That would sure speed things up, now wouldn't it....
You could also use Wabash and the roundabout as an uber-barrel racing course without the barrels. Just barrel down the street, clockwise around the fountain, and back. Have teams, with one starting/returning at Washington, and one starting/returning at Adams.
Make the fountain a wishing well so the driver can toss loose change into it while navigating the circle. Cash in the coins to help pay for the cost of building the intersection.
Howardites (including yours truly) are already making U-ies in front of Family Market and Cookson's ... maybe a roundabout in front of the hardware store would make it even more interesting.
People will burn more gas going around the thing a dozen times (before figuring out how to exit) than they do when stopped at a sign.
I think it's an awesome idea myself. I'd like to see one of Jerry Hubbell's sculptures as the centerpiece.
Has ayone seen the lovely roundaboouts they have in old Savannah? They are centered with beautiful plantings and water features, and surrounded with fantastic antebellum homes festooned with fancy cast-iron rails and decor. These decorations are very similar to the ones in Old New Orleans that were brought over as ballast in ships that then returned to England laden with cotton. Maybe Howard could make decorations of steer horns or Bodark carvings. ;) ;)
Can't start the parade at the north end of Washington. Washington runs east and west. Guess I'm not a bonifide Howardite. Didn't do U'ies in Severy either, except where they were legal.
You're right, Flo. I meant "north at Washington" instead of "on."
I can already see the kids doing donuts around it at night - until they lose control and crash into one of the banks, the grocery store, or John Black's office.
Uhm...I was thinking skinny-dipping in the fountain at 2 A.M. Donuts would be too tame, I guess. You can tell I'm a child of the late 60's!
How about putting a positive spin on something then beat the crap out of it....
I am not talking about a 6 lane Paris type structure that requires stupid engineers to design and build. I am just saying build a simple fountain with a water feature that could also be utilized to fill water tank trucks or fire engines in the event of a fire.
What is the down side of donuts until they crash? That is why the insurance industry jacks up the rates of every teenager. Stupid is a stupid does.
What is the negative about 2am skinny-dipping? It is half a block from a church. We came in to this world stark "nekid"(sorry T)
what is wrong with a little exhibition?
It is sixty feet wide. You can turn a semi around between the banks, drug store, and Blacks office. I have done it....So why wouldn't two cars going the same direction flow better than four people stopping. Veer right and yield to the person on the left.
As for drivers in Cali.....Duh....This is elk county.
Oh, Patrick...and you wonder why I said that the Board need you...desperately! :laugh:
They may have a need but they can't handle all of this.....
Careful, Perkman...I left my chestwaders at the office! lol :laugh:
Light Bulb: Fish.....big orange fish........then once a day one killer bass.......on the humanity.
Giant fish bowl... Glass sides 10 feet tall with native fish under glass. Fishing tournament.......Trophy minow.......Medallion in a bottle.
Patriot guppies as the grade school mascot. Red fish, White fish, and Blue fish.......
Giant 30' Budweiser bottle with corporate sponsorship. Change to Coors....then Aquafina.....Then Miller.......Then Keystone......... Then Everclear.(only since we won't be using tap water)
Change it seasonally.....
Open up the well on the south west side of the park and shoot the water between them like a ping pong match.
Firetruck olympics....Challenge the biggest and baddest firetrucks to show their stuff.
Water cannons for distance....Height.....Accuracy......Gallons per minute.
Quote from: CDBL on October 25, 2008, 07:04:11 PM
I can already see the kids doing donuts around it at night - until they lose control and crash into one of the banks, the grocery store, or John Black's office.
Ohhh--- this brings back memories! The College Hill area in Wichita has one street with a kind of round about at the entrance and exit. I have done many donuts around those; lots of fun! :D :D
The west end of Washington st. is an excellent donut area as well. :-X
LOL! Sounds like a voice of experience! :D :D
How about a big sign announcing all the upcoming events in/around the county?
In all seriousness... is this cistern causing water problems in all the downtown businesses? Is this going to cause problems as other people try and purchase and re-do these buildings?
I like it Patrick....
Donuts, nekid....what is not to like!!!!!
Big sign on 99....come see our roundabout...sell shirts....
It could be the theme of the fall festival.....$2 to see the roundabout
Excellent place to hold the cake walk.
Quote from: DanCookson on October 27, 2008, 02:39:10 PM
I like it Patrick....
Donuts, nekid....what is not to like!!!!!
Big sign on 99....come see our roundabout...sell shirts....
It could be the theme of the fall festival.....$2 to see the roundabout
Excellent place to hold the cake walk.
$2 to see the round about..
$10 to see a Catwoman nekid in the fountain.
;D ;D
Quote from: Tobina on October 27, 2008, 01:46:45 PM
In all seriousness... is this cistern causing water problems in all the downtown businesses? Is this going to cause problems as other people try and purchase and re-do these buildings?
there is no other people that stupid/crazy.......
I hate roundabouts. Don't matter how purty they are dressed up, they're a pain.
In 1950s, we had a roundabout at the end of Missouri 78 highway where I lived in Independence.
It was huge, taking up a lot of real estate, and had four roads leading in and out including one from an Army ammunition plant.
We always liked speeding around it on weekends because no one was ever on it and the police were never around.
Never saw another one until I served in Thailand in the early 70s. In Bangkok (where they drive on the left hand side of the road), roundabouts were all over the place. They popped up in Denver about ten years ago.
Does anyone know of a record for how short a state highway might be?
M-78 was 14.5 miles long.
Another, shorter highway ran parallel to M-78 and was less than one mile away was M-12. It was 5.5 miles long.
Kansas Highway 224 is one mile long. It is how you get off 169 and takes you into Humboldt. I know there are others short like that, especially since the trend of routing highways around town centers began years ago. I didn't find a list of highways with lengths, but remember 224 from when we lived in Humboldt.
Quote from: Teresa on October 27, 2008, 02:43:38 PM
Quote from: DanCookson on October 27, 2008, 02:39:10 PM
I like it Patrick....
Donuts, nekid....what is not to like!!!!!
Big sign on 99....come see our roundabout...sell shirts....
It could be the theme of the fall festival.....$2 to see the roundabout
Excellent place to hold the cake walk.
$2 to see the round about..
$10 to see a Catwoman nekid in the fountain.
;D ;D
This cat never forsakes her fur coat, for the welfare and safety of the general public! lol
Interesting about 224 in Humboldt.
I just checked Humboldt on Delorme maps and it looks like there is a short east-west spur of US-24 called 224 that hooks into an even shorter north-south state route 224.
Just as an aside, up until June 1871, the folks in Elk County (then northern Howard County) had to ride or drive to Humboldt to the US Land Office to file a claim for their land. After that date, they rode or drove to Independence.
How about just a really cool concrete fountain in the center of the street that you have to drive around. Kind of like the outhouse at Halloween.........
We could have a bronze sculpture and the water feature would be the focal point of the downtown. A giant Elk with a huge rack......I mean a nice set of antlers........After all it is the ELK COUNTY SEAT.......We could incorporate the Elk Falls and the deer capitol of Kansas.....Then how about a swinging bridge to bring it back down to earth.