Give ol Hank and George 700 billion dollars to play with, don't make em answer for what they do with it. They won't screw ya, Honest!
I'll just be over here tryin to pull my families 10,000 dollar share out of my ass :P Oh, and by the way Hank, next time I get my butt in a sling I'll expect you to return the favor... K?
Oh and I want my husband to be able to keep a sweet severance package since he's the actin CEO! Maybe throw in a bonus just because.....
(http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x58/Mirjam-20/Emoticons/mouse_sweeping_welcome.gif)
Welcome back, Pam, and I fully agree with your post -
Personally, I'm not talking because I've been listening...to everyone of any party who has been talking on TV and trying to figure out what is going to happen. It's a little over my head. Frankly, nobody knows if it will work even if they were to pass it today. The ramifications of all this are very wide and very deep. I'm going to watch more of the hearings while I make cookies.
I hear you Diane, I've been watchin most of my tv viewin time lately. There are a lot of ramifications........think they need to slow down and get out of panic mode myself. It didn't happen overnight and it ain't gonna go away overnite.
Diane, my sentiments exactly, I don't think anyone knows enough to talk about it. In my opinion the high cost of energy is the main culprit that along with sending all of our jobs overseas and creating a trade deficit that is staggering has caused the housing crisis and the mess we are in. Pointing fingers isn't the answer now, the answer is trying to dig out of it and that won't be easy. Unfortunately I don't think we have seen the worst of the energy crisis, and it will take along time and lots of capital and research to solve that problem.
The culprit is buildin a whole sector of the economy on money that didn't exist. Too much credit and not enough hard assets under it , livin beyond the means. Greed in other words.
Yeah, we'll dig out of it. Cause THAT'S what we do. People who lived WITHIN their means, save their money instead of gamblin with it. We'll ALL dig out of it.
:'(
But I really like gambling Pam...
:laugh: :laugh:
I truly don't think they know what to do!!! But you are right, they are in PANIC mode!!!
Quote from: Teresa on September 24, 2008, 12:44:47 PM
:'(
But I really like gambling Pam...
me too, but I use my own money and if I don't have it, I don't gamble. (been a long long time since I done any gambling :-\ ) ::) ::) just had a thought, should I go gambling and over-extend my resources, you reckon the government would bail me out?
Apparently McCain and Obama and crews have agreed to drop campaigning for a bit and head back to Washington. Since 3 of the 4 are senators they need to be there to vote. Poor Sarah will be left out, or maybe she'll keep campaigning on her own.
I think this is a better solution to the housing problem.
This is sort of Tongue in Cheek thought.....but it came in an email this morning and it makes more sense than what I hear on TV.
I am confused, but realize that very soon someone IS going to say we are in a DEPRESSION and all I can say is, "YOU THINK?" I think we have been there for a few years and just now, the "powers that be" are finally getting the message., I hope you all will take this with a "GRAIN OF SALT" but, just think what all we poor people could do with this......WOW!!!
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It Dividend".
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend". Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
• Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
• Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads
• Put away money for college – it'll be there
• Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
• Buy a new car – create jobs
• Invest in the market – capital drives growth
• Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves
• Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!
As for AIG –
• liquidate it.
• Sell off its parts.
• Let American General go back to being American General.
• Sell off the real estate.
• Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work." But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 billion We deserve the "We Deserve It Dividend" more than the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .
And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 billion because $25.5 billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
'Poor People have been voting for Democrats for the last 50 years, .............and they are still poor.'
(Charles Barkley)
Judy, HAVE A GREAT DAY
Frank
Lol, sounds like a plan to me Judy :laugh: :laugh: :laugh
I have several problems with the whole mess. 1. Why should I help bail someone out that is in over their head and the banks know it when they gave them their loan. 2. Fire everyone at the top, they were the ones that approved these loans and I am sure they have millions in overseas bank's and could live just fine with out working.
Maude
I'm not poor Frank. I'm actually a very rich woman in the things that count, so I guess votin Democrat has worked for me just fine. Just like it did for my father and his father.
far as I can figure, my family has been poor since the "Hoover Boom". Let's see, ::) ::) ::) I think he was republican, right?
I tried it (voting republican), didn't like it (Bush administration)! ;D ;D
From another forum I frequent:
QuoteFrom what I understand, it's not altogether a bad deal, and here's why:
A lot of these defaulting loans were at 9, 10, 12 percent. The Fed can borrow at 2-3%. This means they can salvage mortgages for these homeowners (I know, it's a crappy fix) and still make money on them by offering them at 6-7%.
I don't doubt that the funds will come back, with profit.
It's a catch-22, for sure, as I oppose it on principle. But smarter people than me are saying its damn near a necessity at this point.
Quote from: mtcookson on September 25, 2008, 11:23:54 AM
From another forum I frequent:
QuoteFrom what I understand, it's not altogether a bad deal, and here's why:
A lot of these defaulting loans were at 9, 10, 12 percent. The Fed can borrow at 2-3%. This means they can salvage mortgages for these homeowners (I know, it's a crappy fix) and still make money on them by offering them at 6-7%.
I don't doubt that the funds will come back, with profit.
It's a catch-22, for sure, as I oppose it on principle. But smarter people than me are saying its damn near a necessity at this point.
Big big mess............................
I was setting here having a smoke, drinking my prune juice and reading a newspaper when I found out this information.
Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch aren't commercial banks. They are investment "banks"and are not insured like our local banks and credit unions are. So now the commercial banks are being ask to purchase these companys.
If this is the case why are we doing a 700 Billion buy out?
Maude
Merrill Lynch CEO came out smelling like a rose while Bank of America is buying them out. Come on down friends, it isn't so bad down here on the bottom. :) :) :) :)
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 24, 2008, 02:05:35 PM
Apparently McCain and Obama and crews have agreed to drop campaigning for a bit and head back to Washington. Since 3 of the 4 are senators they need to be there to vote. Poor Sarah will be left out, or maybe she'll keep campaigning on her own.
Nope...McCain has said that he's done campaigning until this mess is taken care of...Obama says no way is he backing down on having the debate...he wants to stand around and debate it and other things while all of the other congressmen (isn't that his job description, too?) are getting this thing going/finished. It'll be interesting to see if Obama forces the issue and shows up to debate himself while McCain is busy doing the job he was elected to do in the first place.
i've been watchin the whole thing. I think Mccain is grandstandin. obama is tryin to seem coolheaded and in charge. They are both tryin to get some milage out of this. They are both doin the job they were elected to do as far as I can see, they are still senators, all they are at this point is a vote one way or the other. Neither one of em can claim the limelight on this one. If they do they have delusions of granduer.
A friend sent this to me. It makes as much sense as the current plan, and it would be a hell of a lot more fun!
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in
a We Deserve It Dividend.
To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000
bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.
Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman
and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..
So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a
We Deserve It Dividend.
Of course, it would NOT be tax free.
So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.
Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?
Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.
Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads
Put away money for college – it'll be there
Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.
Start a new business.
Buy a new car – create jobs
Invest in the market – capital drives growth
Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves
Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else
Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks
who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.
If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of
trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by
one of our candidates for President.
If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S
Citizen 18+!
As for AIG – liquidate it.
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.
Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.
Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."
But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!
How do you spell Economic Boom?
I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion
We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington
DC.
And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5
Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.
Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.
Kindest personal regards,
Birk
T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic
Please watch and tell me who sold out.............GEE...isn't it funny that important truths like this about the anointed one somehow never get MSM pounding like the BIG news of Palins daughter. ::)
And one more thing.........
Racism......
Isn't that what would be screamed from the courthouse steps if we had a Congressional White Caucus? How about if we had a League of Men Voters?
Nough said ............. :(
You can say what you want, at least McCain feels it is his job to help the American people in a time of need. The only thing Obama is doing is working for himself and to h#$$ with the American people.
Maude and Maxine
Maude and Maxine, you are pretty wise ladies, I watch for your post. You say alot with few words. Keep on keeping on.
Oh hell, the spirit of helpin went south yesterday, it's all breakin down into partisan bull and McCain is just as guilty as the rest of em. The house republicans are gonna take their ball and go home and the senate and house democrats are sayin fine be that way, if it wasn't so serious it'd be funny.
Normally I don't post in the political section since i would be bulldozed for my opinions, so I won't express an opinion, however, your math is extremely faulty. Try removing three zeros from the end of your "dividend" to each 18+ in the country. A billion is a thousand million, it is impossible for 85 billion to divide out to 425000 per 18+, it is $425. Also, I know it probably has been mentioned but I simply missed it, but if one cannot relieve the stress in the credit markets (not expressing an opinion on the bailout simply stating a fact) many business (not just banks) will not be able to function and will inevitably fail. This covers the entire cross section of the economy, businesses like retailers function utilizing credit terms to purchase goods to sell to us (Wal-Mart included), that is simply how such businesses are operated, most businesses do not keep their "cash" in fully liquid situations but rather in CDs or other semi-liquid assets and cover their expenses as revenue streams enter the business. That is, granted, a drop in bucket and can be relieved by the business using their liquid assets, but one has to understand most retailers are most profitable during the holiday season (Day after Thanksgiving shopping DATG is referred to as Black Friday for a reason) and some retailers break even throughout the year and then are only really profitable during the holiday season. I apologize for the rant, just thought I'd throw in the other side.
Jerry, my calculator says you are right. But it sounded good, didn't it?
I certainly would have signed up for had it been correct. ;)
This is gonna be painful no matter what they do, just get it done and we can start gettin over it.
QuoteNormally I don't post in the political section since i would be bulldozed for my opinions, so I won't express an opinion,
Everybody has different opinions and they are all important. Don't think anybody ever means to bulldoze anybody, just different people get fired up over different stuff, but that's how you learn things sometimes. I've had more than one opinion modified by talkin to people who get fired up on here, and I've had a few opinions solidified by talkin to people who got fired up (shrug) but that's just me, I ain't sweatin somebody disagreein with me I just jump in the deep end and learn how to swim lol
Guess I'm one of those wierd people who figures you don't get anywhere just talkin to people who agree with you, if nobody challenges your positions how do you know if it's what you truly believe?
Thanks, Pam :D. I usually do express my opinions, however lately I've enjoyed the spot of watching other people and not getting yelled at (you can yell on the internet LOL). However, we do need to resolve the current debate on the bailout, and we need to do it now before it drags us further down. Granted even if this plan or another is enacted, we will have further to fall since home prices haven't stabilized yet and home sales are still declining. There are currently two plans floating around:
1.purchase the distressed assets of the banks at a market price (still to be determined); restrict corporate pay for CEOs,etc; require an equity stake in the company for the bailout
2.the conservative republicans yesterday floated a plan to insure (much like FDIC) the distressed assets and charge an insurance fee to do so that would be scaled based on the assessed risks of the bank
In general, I've read several articles from various debt rating agencies, economic experts (which realize is always questionable) and other sources, and all have said the last plan is unworkable mostly because it doesn't directly inject liquidity into the market. However, at this point those are the two plans that are being discussed, to some degree.
I don't think this is a partisan issue at all, just an issue of greed and bad business practices. Many people got caught up in the housing bubble and expected to buy into a home using all their assets and financing the rest thoroughly expecting the home to greatly appreciate in value in a short time. Then they would sell, and take the profit. Lots of people in areas of greatly inflated real estate prices invested in several homes, and then when the bubble burst, they could no longer make the payments and couldn't sell because there were no buyers. And there were the sub prime loans that should not have been made anyway; it is obvious that there was some hanky panky going on there. Unfortunately, we are now expected to bail out all these people and there is no guarantee that it will get the economy going again. The economy has been in a slow down for some years now and corporate welfare seems to be the mode of the day with John Q Taxpayer getting it in the neck again. Perhaps it will help, and maybe if the loans are repaid as the Chrysler loan was it will be worth it. But I think we will be feeling the effects of this years Wall street problems for many years. And thank you Jerry, for posting that discrepancy; I noticed it yesterday when Judy first posted that email, but my time has been very limited for responding to the politics thread. Just been trying to keep up with what is going on in the Washington world and my house full of company at the same time. ;) ;)
Yeah, that's what I've been hearin said about the last one too. And the housing bust still does have a ways to go. I got layed off last december, me and three other guys off the same crew, I've been talkin to my old boss along and things still haven't picked back up, most guys around here are workin bare bones crews except for the really big commercial guys. More than a few went to workin for somebody else :P
I was typin at the same time as SDM :P Yeah it was greed and bad business practice. Yeah they oughta pay just like you and me would if we did somthin that goofy. Lot of decent people are caught in the undertow from this, it's a huge mess and it ain't gonna be a cakewalk no matter WHAT they do.
Can anyone explain how this $425 amount figure translates into the $10,000 per family price tag the government has put on each family? What am I missing?
I think the $425 figure was just for bailing out one entity, AIG. The $10,000 figure is for the entire bailout, the total is just under $1,000,000,000,000.00 ( One Trillion dollars). At least that is what I can gather. :P :P :P
I just really don't understand most of this bailout thing??? I guess it gets me because if I fault on payments and loans, people are banging on my door or phone. I am with you on these people that got in this situation were not smart and the big companies even dumber. I mean, I had looked at several options before we purchased my daycare. I have to tell you, they checked my credit hard, especially are banks here in Howard. I think that is a good thing. They are not lending money to people that won't pay it back, and they are getting their money. But this bailout thing should be our mistake and we shouldn't have to pick up the pieces. I run a business and I mean to tell you things are getting TIGHT!! Not only for our business, but everyone around. It stinks to think that, us people that are barley making a living are the ones that are always helping the ones that make the big bucks. If I am wrong about that, let me know! We are cutting back on things that I never thought we would have to cut back on. And if you farm or ranch, man things are really tight!!!
Figure things are fixin to get a hell of a lot tighter :P Somebody like us goes under it barely makes a ripple, these goobers have managed to generate a tidal wave that's got a good chance of takin us all with em.
I've had people tellin me for a couple years that this was gonna happen and I didn't really believe em, there's always that feelin that it COULD happen but never thought it WOULD :P I was foolish.
You are no more foolish than the Germans who said that, because they were a democracy, a person like Hitler could never emerge and do the destruction that he did. It is human nature to hope for the best. I agree with you...I think this is going to get a whole lot worse before it ever gets any better.
Yeah it's human nature to hope for the best but I ws foolish because you always have that little voice that tells hey this is a real possibility but too often we don't listen to it BECAUSE we are goofy enough to hope for the best lol