I have thoroughly read the last handful of posts with great interest. All were well thought out and well written.Thank you. I totally understand how people can feel the way they do. Everyone will reflect their upbringing and their home area. That's a very good thing. I live in an area that is not sheltered in any way from any "kind" of people; we have the best of the best and the worst of the worst, but not all the time or everywhere at the same time. We have very strong minded environmentalists here who watch every move and I understand that because we simply don't have the luxury of a lot of excess land to pollute. A big oil spill along our coast or on the big Delaware River could be a disaster. Not from the oil rigs, but from the transportation of the oil to the refineries. Some of our people are as scared of that as Teresa is of Barack. We have had many, many small spills over the years and we are pretty quick with the booms, barriers and vacuums...but they are afraid of "the big one." We also have Nuclear power plants. Not in Delaware, but just across the river in New Jersey. We are within the 10 mile radius of a leak, and have big "run for your life" sirens on towers along rt. 13. You can see the big cooling towers and every time I see them I sort of wonder.... I want to know who will be the candidates energy and economic advisers and who is advising them now, during the campaigns. I heard some things from Barack this morning that I thought were rather short sighted. I'll know better how I feel when the Vice Presidential candidates are announced. In the meantime, I'll watch the smog cutting events at the Olympics!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 07, 2008, 11:38:57 AM
We have had many, many small spills over the years and we are pretty quick with the booms, barriers and vacuums...but they are afraid of "the big one." We also have Nuclear power plants. Not in Delaware, but just across the river in New Jersey. We are within the 10 mile radius of a leak, and have big "run for your life" sirens on towers along rt. 13. You can see the big cooling towers and every time I see them I sort of wonder....
Diane?? if you would hear the big siren.. what happens? I mean what do you have to do? I didn't know that it was that "to the wire" there. And the big cooling towers... What about them?
Please explain more about it.
Teresa, about Salem. My house here in Newark is too far away to actually hear the sirens, but if you are over near the river you sure can. I did hear the sirens once but it was just a test, thank goodness. If it's for real, fire board and our radio stations will tell you which way the air is moving and at what speed and what the danger really is. The fire equipment and police cars then hit the road with evacuation orders on bull horns to let people know to leave. The city also has reverse 911 that calls everybody's phones and leaves a message. The University can call student cell phones with a message. You are to go the other way as far as you can and wait for news. We were put on alert for real one time, but it was taken care of and put under control before we had to do anything. I have a friend who is a fire fighter there at Salem and he tells us about lots of little things that happen. It's very well maintained and the risk is extremely small, but...... The big cooling towers are no problem. They just look imposing.
Nuclear fission isn't all that complicated, but it's hard to explain. I took a tour at the Peach Bottom PA. plant one time and it is fascinating. The radioactive fuel rods, with U-235, as most of the older plants have, move up and down into water to regulate their temperature. You want them hot enough to create steam to run turbines to make electricity, but not so hot that they melt down or evaporate the water and cause them to melt through the bottom of the chamber to create a "China Syndrome." Water is cooled and replaced constantly so the plants are on rivers or some reliable water source. There are a huge numbers of back ups and redundancies and since 9-11, security is even tighter. Newer plants use other products such as sea water and plutonium. Aside from a terrorist attack or a very unlikely series of events, they are very safe.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 07, 2008, 02:55:00 PM
Teresa, about Salem. My house here in Newark is too far away to actually hear the sirens, but if you are over near the river you sure can. I did hear the sirens once but it was just a test, thank goodness. If it's for real, fire board and our radio stations will tell you which way the air is moving and at what speed and what the danger really is. The fire equipment and police cars then hit the road with evacuation orders on bull horns to let people know to leave. The city also has reverse 911 that calls everybody's phones and leaves a message. The University can call student cell phones with a message. You are to go the other way as far as you can and wait for news. We were put on alert for real one time, but it was taken care of and put under control before we had to do anything. I have a friend who is a fire fighter there at Salem and he tells us about lots of little things that happen. It's very well maintained and the risk is extremely small, but...... The big cooling towers are no problem. They just look imposing.
Nuclear fission isn't all that complicated, but it's hard to explain. I took a tour at the Peach Bottom PA. plant one time and it is fascinating. The radioactive fuel rods, with U-235, as most of the older plants have, move up and down into water to regulate their temperature. You want them hot enough to create steam to run turbines to make electricity, but not so hot that they melt down or evaporate the water and cause them to melt through the bottom of the chamber to create a "China Syndrome." Water is cooled and replaced constantly so the plants are on rivers or some reliable water source. There are a huge numbers of back ups and redundancies and since 9-11, security is even tighter. Newer plants use other products such as sea water and plutonium. Aside from a terrorist attack or a very unlikely series of events, they are very safe.
One more point that folks don't know about reactors. Water shields radiation. You can flood a reactor with water, and no radiation will leak out from it.
I lived 5 miles from the shud down dawsomville Ga site, where they built the little man bomb used in WW 2. IT is filled up with riverwater and no radiation leaks out from the core.
Sorry David, I guess we got a little off track. I keep expecting the two candidates to talk about increases in nuclear power to help with energy needs, but I guess that's a hot button, if you'll pardon the pun. And skr, you are right about the water, but then people worry about contaminated water getting out. There is plenty of containment inside but some people are scared to death of the idea. I think we're in more danger from gasoline tankers on the highways every day.
Fascinating Diane.. Thank you so much. I may have to pull these posts and start them on another thread so that I can learn more in this area.. ( You should be one of those tour guides. ) You had my rapt attention.
I'm one of those people that's always been nervous about nuclear power :P My aunt and uncle have been workin at Wolf Creek for about 20 years tho, I know American standards are higher than overseas and I know an accident is highly unlikely but at the same time...it only takes one to really screw things up. We have to start thinkin about the consequences and repercussions for future generations more than we have in the past. Pickens plan has serious possibilities I think. Life......it's a big crap shoot and you spend your time hopin you don't roll snake eyes :P
Pam I am still unsure about nuclear power safety due to the fact that much of it in the U.S is very old. France has one of the most modern and safe nuclear power systems in the world if not the most safe. I think it is definitely time to revisit this issue due to our ever increasing energy needs.
David
I hear ya, y'know that's one of the few things Frank and I agree on tho is figurin out a way to decrease our energy needs, instead of continually comin up with ways to support em. It's only a matter of time till we run out of ideas!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 07, 2008, 07:36:38 PM
Sorry David, I guess we got a little off track. I keep expecting the two candidates to talk about increases in nuclear power to help with energy needs, but I guess that's a hot button, if you'll pardon the pun. And skr, you are right about the water, but then people worry about contaminated water getting out. There is plenty of containment inside but some people are scared to death of the idea. I think we're in more danger from gasoline tankers on the highways every day.
Funny thing is that the water isn't contaminated. The only reason i can think of is because water is simple two elements. Oxygen and hydrogen. Both of which when heated evaporate into the air. The radiation is contained and the heat from the radiation never gets into the water.
Wierd i know.
Quote from: dnalexander on August 07, 2008, 10:05:46 PM
Pam I am still unsure about nuclear power safety due to the fact that much of it in the U.S is very old. France has one of the most modern and safe nuclear power systems in the world if not the most safe. I think it is definitely time to revisit this issue due to our ever increasing energy needs.
David
We have new ones online. Their at 4th generation plants now here. Now what people don't know about nuclear power is that ALL of the rods and nuclear material can be recycled. BUT Good ole Jimmy carter issued a executive order prohibiting that from happening. I don't know why. BUt to recycle the rods you have several types of plants online each of which uses the rods in each of their recycled states.
That's one of the things that shocked me, people go fishin in Wolf Creek's! Until I saw that I just automatically figured the water would be unfit for anything. Still don't think I would but :-\ ???
Quote from: pam on August 08, 2008, 07:24:28 AM
That's one of the things that shocked me, people go fishin in Wolf Creek's! Until I saw that I just automatically figured the water would be unfit for anything. Still don't think I would but :-\ ???
I lived on rivers just a mile or two below a reactor in tennessee. The waters aren't bothered at all.
Skr is exactly right on all of his posts. "Back in the day," supposedly it wasn't cost effective to recycle spent rods , but now I'm sure it would be. People tend to be afraid of things that might happen in a spectacular way, and often have misinformation. Yet they have no fear of the local UPS truck that could be carrying small quantities of radio active materials every day. In the fire service we learn about all that stuff, hazmat and all the MSDS, but the general public doesn't know and perhaps they don't need to. I still know how to use a Geiger counter and dosimeter if have to. Basically on the ambulance, if there is a potential hazmat of any kind, we use the rule of thumb. We start out up wind and far enough away that if I hold up my thumb out in front of me, my thumb hides the incident. On the engine, that's something else. We decide what level incident it is and wear the appropriate protective suit to get in there and do the job.
it would probably really shock people to know how often they are up close and personal with radiation and other hazardous materials!
Quote from: pam on August 08, 2008, 03:17:12 PM
it would probably really shock people to know how often they are up close and personal with radiation and other hazardous materials!
Well if you turn on a tv, or use a microwave, or a cell phone or a computer, or ANY electrical device, including the wiring in your home that delivers the electricity to your outlets, you have radiation. :)
Just different levels is all. :)
very interesting... I've learned a lot reading these posts.
thanks everyone.
Even your common smoke detector has a tiny, tiny bit of mildly radioactive material in it.