I think all electric vehicles will be a success in the future.
Nissan sold on electric cars, not hybrids
Nissan executive says focus is on electric cars for green image; no hybrid-only model planned
August 08, 2008: 01:38 AM EST
NEW YORK (Associated Press) - Nissan won't be coming out with a model available only as a hybrid, opting instead to focus on electric vehicles for its green strategy, according to a senior executive.
Mitsuhiko Yamashita, Nissan Motor Co. Executive Vice President overseeing research and development, said Nissan will likely pack its hybrid system in a model already available as a conventional gasoline-powered car.
Hybrids, he said, will soon be so commonplace they will no longer be the conspicuous-consumption status symbols they now seem to be for owners.
His comments, earlier this week, offer a rare look into product development strategy at a major automaker. They also counter the common wisdom about the reason for the success of Toyota Motor Corp.'s gasoline-electric hybrid Prius, believed to have drawn buyers because it is a hybrid-only model.
Tokyo-based Nissan is a latecomer to hybrids compared to Japanese rival Toyota. It currently buys hybrid systems from Toyota for the Nissan Altima hybrid but is promising a vehicle packed with Nissan's own hybrid system by 2010.
"There may be no point in waving the hybrid flag at this point," Yamashita told The Associated Press, referring to both Toyota's success and the anticipated proliferation of hybrids. "Hybrids may not be all that special."
Yamashita declined to disclose the models but suggested the his company's hybrid system may be offered in the Nissan Z. Nissan will offer a mid-size hybrid with a bigger engine than the compact Prius, he said.
Nissan showed a prototype hybrid earlier this week in the luxury Infiniti G35, called the Skyline in Japan.
Besides the Prius, Toyota offers hybrid versions of its gasoline-powered models, including Lexus luxury cars and Camry.
Not all hybrid-only models have been successes.
Honda Motor Co.'s Insight, a hybrid-only model, was discontinued in 2006 due to poor sales. Honda is introducing a new hybrid-only model next year.
Nissan showed its electric car prototype in a Cube compact. But Yamashita said reducing wind resistance is critical for an electric vehicle's efficiency, hinting the model in the works will have a futuristic aerodynamic design.
Nissan faces competition in electric vehicles. U.S. automaker General Motors Corp. is planning a Chevrolet Volt plug-in electric vehicle in 2010.
Hybrids reduce pollution as well as global warming emissions by switching between a gasoline engine and an electric motor. Their popularity is growing amid soaring oil prices. Electric vehicles, which are zero-emission, are also increasingly drawing attention.
sorry, if you've got the money to buy a new car, PLEASE BUY AMERICAN
Most Nissan, Toyota and Honda vehicles are made in America by Americans and add very little to the trade imbalance.
For another American option. Check out Tesla Motors. They have a fantastic all electric sports car and a month or so ago announced plans for a moderate priced vehicle that will be in the Toyota\Honda price range. This sounds like good news for Tesla Motors I have a feeling one of the big car companies will snatch them up pretty soon.
David
In the late forties when I was into comic books, Elvira Coot, the matriarch of the Duck family and Donald Duck's nephews, Huey, Dewy, and Louie, great-grandmother, drove an electric car.
I wondered then why electrics were no longer around.
She apparently had owned it since it was manufactured in the 1890s or 1900s.
A web site says General Electric began building electric cars in 1898.
I do not know how far those early electrics could go but it could not have been very far.
They must have been rechargeable even at that early time.
The Tesla web site says the car gets 231 EPA city; 224 EPA highway; and 227 EPA combined. That's miles per charge.
From time to time various entrepreneurs have brought out electrics and have failed each time because the technology still could not compete with gasoline.
Perhaps, this time might be different, at least if you want local transportation.
The nice thing about the Tesla is it performance and that its range puts it in the gasoline powered vehicle range. Also they are very well financed with money from Paypal founder, Ebay, Google and many big Silicon Valley venture capital firms. Also, just goes to show you how things from comics and science fiction are way ahead of their time. Same with ethanol if I remember the first model T ran on alcohol. Mom was wrong we weren't wasting our time reading sci-fi and comic books.
David
David, Fortune Magazine had an article on Tesla Motors, their starting price is around $110,000.00 and the big thing is the range on a charge is around 220 miles. I think they are on the right track, just not their for everyday use.
I loved Grandma Duck's car when I was little. I always wanted one. I may get one yet! ;)
Definitely still have some work to do. The second model a sedan will be in the BMW\Audi range of $60,000 due out in 2010. The third model due in 2012 is targeted for $30,000. Their main innovations have been in their motor performance and battery storage. I think for them to be a success it will definitely take a company like Toyota or Daimler. Unsure if they can find the finances from US Auto companies. Arnold the Governator just gave them some money and concessions to them in California. Our state economy could use a successful new addition to the economy.
David
Quote from: frawin on August 08, 2008, 12:58:55 PM
David, Fortune Magazine had an article on Tesla Motors, their starting price is around $110,000.00 and the big thing is the range on a charge is around 220 miles. I think they are on the right track, just not their for everyday use.
Uhmm gotta say if the price tag is 110,000.00, they are no where near competing with the price of gas! No one in their right mind is going to spend more on their vehicle than they do on their house. Shoot. I could buy my house almost 4 times over with 110k.
IF they get a vehicle llike that down to around 10 -15k, then they might stand a chance at competition.
Not many new cars left in the 10-15K range. I'm with you Steve even the $30,000 price tag is not what I would spend on a car gas or electric.
David
Steve for just under 20 of your houses and the price of the expensive Tesla sports car you could buy the average house in my neighborhood. Another thing out of my price range. And just to give you an idea these houses are from the 1930's to 1950's and 900 t0 1200 square feet on small lots.
David
Quote from: dnalexander on August 08, 2008, 04:13:54 PM
Steve for just under 20 of your houses and the price of the expensive Tesla sports car you could buy the average house in my neighborhood. Another thing out of my price range. And just to give you an idea these houses are from the 1930's to 1950's and 900 t0 1200 square feet on small lots.
David
I know. I have been over to the left coast. I couldn't believe what they get for houses there. :(
I have a 55,000 dollar piece of property in georgia that is 1 1/2 acres of raw land. I haven't sold it yet. I took it off the market last month because i found out that Volkswagon is building a new plant in chattanooga tn 60 miles away from my property. I figure that blairsville ga is going to be the town chosen by executives tol live and my property there will double in value. IF it does, i'll sell out in a new york second and buy me some more property here and invest the rest. Maybe get my farm self supporting with some equipment and enhancements that are 100% paid for.
As for vehicles, i drive old ones :) Til the wheels fall off. LOL i have three now. One is in georgia. 1998 blazer, i have a 1989 s10 pickup here and a 1968 ford pickup f100.
I hate even thinking of bringing my blazer here because the state taxes on our vehicles are obscene! They want to charge me 100 dollars for a tag for a 20 year old truck. What a rip off!!!
Quote from: frawin on August 08, 2008, 08:48:09 AM
Most Nissan, Toyota and Honda vehicles are made in America by Americans and add very little to the trade imbalance.
are they MADE in America or ASSEMBLED in America? There is a difference.
www.zapworld.com/ is also an electric car company in my area. They have some with lower price tags in the $10,000 to 15,000. They have even more limited range and most cant reach highway speed. I put them in kind of the fancy golf cart category. Even though most people probably don't drive over 200 miles in a day until the range of these gets more competitive with gas cars, the electric cars I have seen will be relegated to 2nd car status or hobby cars. Americans love to drive and for those times I want to go on a long road trip these cars just don't fit the bill. It will be interesting to see if this surge in electric cars takes hold or just become nostalgic show cars at future car shows.
David
Perhaps, some time in the future, if you and the family are on vacation and run out of "gas."
Would you coast to the nearest farm house, get out with a 100 foot extension cord, and ask to "borrow" some electricity.
With the current recharging times you will have to ask if you can spend the night too. We already have some charging stations in parking lots\structures and at several government buildings but I still see the trip to grandma's house being a big stumbling block.
David
Quote from: flo on August 08, 2008, 08:21:57 AM
sorry, if you've got the money to buy a new car, PLEASE BUY AMERICAN
I'm all for supporting American business and products, especially compared to all of the Chinese junk we're getting flooded with... but, the American car manufacturers need a complete overhaul on how they operate and build cars before I'll buy one again. My fiance bought a brand new 2008 Mazda Tribute (built by Ford in Kansas City, sister vehicles are the Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner). We first tested out a couple Jeep models which were absolutely horrible, they drove horrible, sounded horrible, and the interiors were just plain cheap. We got in the Tribute and it was waaaaayyyy better than the Jeep and cheaper to boot. We decided on getting that one and not even a year passed before we started having problems. The air bag error light came on twice, we had it fixed but it came on again, the vehicle overall started to become very noisy, the head rest bars poked out a bit on the back of the front seats causing a pretty high safety concern in the case of frontal collisions for the rear passengers, and shortly before trading the transmission start acting up (with only around 20,000 miles). It was quickly becoming a nightmare and even worse, being an SUV, the value was dropping faster than normal due to fuel prices.
We finally decided to take a hit money wise and trade it for a new Mazda CX-7 that they had a pretty good deal on. This particular Mazda is made in Japan and is simply built way better than the Ford built Mazda we traded. The price was the same (though we're paying more due to the poor value of the Tribute) but the quality just isn't even close. The interior is a lot nicer, the ride is better, its quieter, it has a smaller engine for better fuel economy but is turbocharged so makes even more power than the V6 in the Tribute, it has a 6-speed automatic that also helps with fuel economy on the highway, its just all around a better vehicle that was priced the same.
I believe the problem problem is that the unions are absolutely killing them (as you can tell by Toyota now being the largest automaker worldwide). The amount of money that the original big 3 had to pay due to the unions essentially forced them to have to make stuff cheaper to make any money. I believe they had to pay around 2,000 to 3,000 per employee making their profit per car for the company even less. That's the big thing that's really killing them. The other problem is that for the longest time they haven't really been building what the people want. The foreign manufacturers have been good about giving the people what they want so by the time the domestics manufacturers come out with the same stuff its already too late and the imports are selling more, then of course you have the quality and reliability differences.
On the reliability thing, they aren't all completely unreliable of course. Most of the Japanese cars do have a higher reliability rating and even some Korean cars but oddly enough the European manufacturers generally have a lower rating than the domestics do (regardless though, there are vehicles from every manufacturer that are excellent and terrible. Right now though, Subaru is considered the most reliable out there and is built in the US to boot, Indiana to be exact). Some of the newer vehicles coming out from GM and Ford do look very, very promising though. From a lot of the reviews I've read, the new Chevy Malibu is probably one of the best built cars out right now as far as quality and build easily competing with Toyota's cars. There's also a new Ford car out that is supposed to rival Toyota's and Honda's as far as quality and reliability but I can't remember the name off hand.
Anyway... right now is the time for the American auto manufacturers to start making some big changes and start coming out with some quality cars with better profit margins. To really pull it off the unions would have to have a major change or just disappear but regardless, with the dollar weak right now exports would be a huge. If they can make some quality vehicles to compete with the current foreign front runners they could make a killing in the international market. The problem is American vehicles have a bad rep overseas so they definitely need to make some drastic changes to change that. I'm sad to say that until they do that I personally will avoid them. I would be interested in looking into that new Malibu but I don't really need a car like that so wouldn't be interested for a while. I do have an older 86 Chevy Blazer 4WD and I absolutely love it. It has an underpowered 2.8 V6 and has so many squeaks it sound like a tank driving down the road (which is why I nicknamed it The Tank) but the thing has over a 1/4 of a million miles on it and still runs. I think the engine is near the end of its life so will be putting a different one in but it still is built a lot better than a lot of the newer domestics vehicles. I also have a 89 Ford F150 but am a little more disappointed in it compared to the Blazer. The engine is nice and strong and I'm sure would last quite a while but I just don't like the feel of it as much, its more of a personal preference thing really but it does seem to be built a little better than some of the newer ones I've been in.
Quote from: flo on August 09, 2008, 07:59:37 AMare they MADE in America or ASSEMBLED in America? There is a difference.
They consider a vehicle domestic if its parts content is 75% or higher however... if they are assembled in America they are still bringing in American jobs regardless. Here's a list of "import" vehicles that are built/assembled in the US:
Acura TL – Marysville, Ohio
BMW X5 – Spartanburg, South Carolina
BMW Z4 – Spartanburg, South Carolina
Honda Accord – Marysville, Ohio
Honda Civic – East Liberty, Ohio (up to 70% domestic parts content, could soon be considered domestic)
Honda Element – East Liberty, Ohio
Honda Odyssey – Lincoln, Alabama
Honda Pilot – Lincoln, Alabama
Hyundai Sonata – Montgomery, Alabama
Hyundai Santa Fe – Montgomery, Alabama
Mazda 6 – Flat Rock, Michigan
Mazda B-Series – Minneapolis, Minnesota (same platform as the Ford Ranger)
Mazda Tribute – Kansas City, Missouri (built on the same platform as the Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner so should be considered domestic though now has 65% domestics parts so I'm not sure why its still on the list)
Mercedes-Benz M-Class – Vance, Alabama
Mercedes-Benz R-Class – Vance, Alabama
Mitsubishi Eclipse – Normal, Illinois
Mitsubishi Endeavor – Normal, Illinois
Mitsubishi Galant – Normal, Illinois
Mitsubishi Raider – Warren, Michigan
Infiniti QX56 – Canton, Mississippi
Isuzu Ascender – Moraine, Ohio and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Isuzu i-Series Pickup – Shreveport, Louisiana
Nissan Altima – Smyrna, Tennessee and Canton, Mississippi
Nissan Armada – Canton, Mississippi
Nissan Frontier – Smyrna, Tennessee (Suzuki's new truck is a Nissan Frontier)
Nissan Maxima – Smyrna, Tennessee
Nissan Pathfinder – Smyrna, Tennessee
Nissan Quest – Canton, Mississippi
Nissan Titan – Canton, Mississippi
Nissan Xterra – Smyrna, Tennessee
Saab 9-7X – Moraine, Ohio
Subaru Baja – Lafayette, Indiana
Subaru B9 Tribeca – Lafayette, Indiana
Subaru Legacy – Lafayette, Indiana
Subaru Outback – Lafayette, Indiana
Toyota Avalon – Georgetown, Kentucky
Toyota Camry – Georgetown, KentuckyToyota Camry Solara – Georgetown, Kentucky
Toyota Corolla – Fremont, California
Toyota Sequoia – Princeton, Indiana
Toyota Sienna – Princeton, IndianaToyota Tundra – Princeton, IndianaToyota Tacoma – Fremont, California
A few domestic vehicles:
Chevy HHR - built in Mexico
Chevy Impala - built in Canada (and a lot of police use these cars, I think most of Wichita PD's cars are Impalas)
Chrysler 300 - built in Canada
Chrysler PT Cruiser - built in Mexico
Dodge minivans - most made in Canada
Dodge Ram - less than 75% domestic parts
Ford Focus 2008 - 65%
Ford Mustang - 65% (the V6 engine is built in Germany, manual transmissions are made in Mexico, and auto transmissions in France)
Jeep Wrangler - less than 75% (less than the previous model years)
Foreign ownership:
Ford owns:
Jaguar
Land Rover
Mazda (33%)
Volvo cars
GM owns:
Daewoo (44%, though I don't believe they sell them as Daewoo here anymore)
Saab
Suzuki (2.5%)
Chrysler used to be owned by Daimler (german) but Daimler actually ended up paying about $650 million to get rid of Chrysler (due to losses). Chrysler is now owned by Cerberus Capital Management, based out of NYC.
Holy smokes! :o
Does that man know his cars or what?!
Great information nephew.... :)
Pssssttt.....(( I loved my foreign made cars.. ..they just never gave us any problems what so ever.. ) 0
sorry. :-[
Mtcookson great post I appreciate all the effort it takes to write such a long informative post. I think if we put all this info together it shows just how much that all cars no matter the nameplate are truly global products. Not much difference in American Toyota or American GM as far as where the parts and labor come from.
Check out this one. This car runs on compressed Air ~ 106 mpg ~ top speed at 96 mph ~ Could be a big winner if it does everything they claim it will:
MDI, a European company founded in 1991, has developed technology that could theoretically power a car by compressed air. New York-based Zero Pollution Motors is licensing the technology for the first time to build and sell a car in the United States, CNN reports, pledging to deliver the first models in 2010 at a price tag of less than $18,000—and with a claimed average fuel economy of 106 mpg.
Shiva Vencat, vice president of MDI and CEO of Zero Pollution Motors, said in the report that the concept is similar to how a locomotive works, except that compressed air moves the engine's pistons instead of steam. Adding to the claim's dubious quotient, Vencat said the car will seat six, reach speeds of 90 mph and last 800 miles due to the car's "dual energy" engine, which is Zero Pollution Motors-speak for an engine that can run on either fuel or compressed air. It will run on compressed air at speeds below 35 mph, Vencat said, which kind of makes it like an airy Prius.
http://www.smm.org/buzz/buzz_tags/zero_pollution_motors
http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?page_id=39
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4251491.html?series=19
Quote from: flo on August 08, 2008, 08:21:57 AM
sorry, if you've got the money to buy a new car, PLEASE BUY AMERICAN
I've owned more than my share of cars probably, and while I would like to be able to agree with you Flo, American companies have got to do a better job before I'll ever waste hard-earned money on a Ford, GM or Chrysler product again. And Chrysler being the worst of the bunch.
In 1996 I bought a brand-new Dodge Ram 1500 pick-up. It had 12 miles on it when I got it, and when I reached 3,000 miles (2 months) I began complaining to the Dodge dealer about it's many problems, to no avail. What a piece of junk. Sadly, I made the mistake of again buying a Chrysler product... a 1999 Chrysler Concorde LXi. I had that for about 2 years and again another piece of junk was the 2005 Chrysler PT Cruiser convertible. I had it for less than a year. I've learned my lesson on Chrysler products.
The Ford products weren't much different in quality. The best vehicles I have owned have all been imports. Volvo 740; Mazda Miata convertible, Toyota Prius Hybrid. I had a BMW Z3 convertible that you would think it was German and solidly made, but it was made in South Carolina and only stayed in my driveway for about 18 months.
Anyway, sorry that I don't agree with you Flo. It's my hard-earned money, and I don't plan on buying any more junk. I'm sticking with Toyota from now on.
Dale, I understand what you are talking about. The last new Chevrolet pickup I bought, the transmission went out and the Alternator went bad, the dealer told me they had been having both problems alot but not to worry they were warranted. I asked him if he was going to come get me in the middle of night between Midland Texas and Howard, Kansas. Also I bought my wife a new Buick Park Avenue in 1998, it was nothing but one problem after another. Our Daughter went to work for Honda Motor Corporation and I bought a new Pilot and a new Honda Pickup and have not had any problems at all. Both Hondas were made in America by Americans. At least for now I won't look at any vehicles but Honda or Toyota.
mtcookson, thank you for your information. I learned some things I did not know. As far as "reliable" vehicles, guess there are lemons in every make and model. I drove nothing but a dodge for years. Driving a Ford now, and it doesn't give me any problems. My father drove Chrysler products all his life. We always found them to be reliable, but the latest model I owned was a 1999 PU, a Dakota Sport, 5 on the floor. Loved it, but it just didn't have enough room to even carry groceries home so traded down to a 1998 Dakota that had a back seat and automatic. Only traded for this Ford SUV because a PU is useless on ice and I no longer had access to something heavy to put in the back end for traction ( ;D I couldn't sit back there and drive at the same time ;D). Finances being what they are, this is probably the last vehicle I will own.
February 05, 2008
Most Reliable Cars for 2008
http://blogs.chron.com/thelist/2008/02/most_reliable_cars_for_2008.html
Each year, Consumer Reports weighs in on the most reliable cars. By calculating an overall reliability score for each of the three newest model years - 2005, 2006, and 2007 - the organization comes up with the best bets for the current year. Here are some highpoints for 2008:
1. Family cars: Toyota Prius, Honda Accord (4-cylinder), Ford Fusion (V6)
2. Large cars: Buick Lucerne (V8), Toyota Avalon, Dodge Charger (V6)
3. Small cars: Toyota Yaris Hatchback, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris Sedan
4. Minivans: Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Chrysler Town & Country
5. Small SUVS: Honda Element, Mitsubishi Outlander, Subaru Forester (turbo)
6. Midsized SUVs: Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, Toyota 4Runner
FROM CONSUMER REPORTS TESTING HIGHEST SCORES LOWEST SCORES
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/2008-best-worst-cars-review-4-08/overview/best-worst-cars-review.htm
Best\Score Worst\Score
Lexus LS460L 99 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 17
Infiniti M35 X (AWD) 97 Hummer H3 (5-cyl.) 27
Infiniti M35 (RWD) 96 Jeep Liberty Sport 27
Porsche 911 Carrera S 96 Chevrolet Aveo LS (manual) 30
Toyota Sienna XLE (FWD) 93 Chevrolet Aveo LS (auto.) 32
Never ceases to amaze me how one article on the forum produces such a wealth of information in such a short time.
David
Gas is still the cheapest thing I put in my vehicles. If you want to drive a Prius down one of our roads you will be buying a new one in a week. If you think that I can get 5 full sized humans in a subcompact you are nuts. Hybrids are a joke. Even at $4 a gallon you can't justify the cost of the technology to take the mpg hit by burning ethanol. Totally electric seems to still be too far off to use affordably. I think that you will see more effiency in gas before batteries get smaller. They have no insentive to build a electric car. The big companies don't sell electricity. They sell parts. So we will go back to the pieces of crap that we had in the seventies and they will fall apart just as they did in the seventies. We will buy them because they get 35mpg but will cost $4000 a month to keep running.
I think the point of this threads theme is that these are the directions that we are heading in today to solve the fact that oil is getting more and more expensive and less and less available. As for time frame we will change from the current cars we drive maybe our life time and hopefully before our kids and grandkids are our age.
David
Now I am wondering when someone will post something about a steam powered car that might compete with all the others we have discussed. I think our solutions should be many and not put all our eggs in one basket. If you haven't read W. Grays thread on the electric car in his Duck Family series you should. I bet he has comic book history and real history about steam cars.
David
I did learn yesterday that the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, Colorado, was built by Freelan Oscar Stanley, who built the Stanley Steamer.
The Stanley Steamer set a speed record of 128 mph in 1906. No other steamer has ever gone as fast.
The last Stanley Steamer came off the assembly line in 1924. A 1916 Stanley Steamer cost $2,200. Total production was 12,000 automobiles.
The last steam car, the Doble, came off the assembly line in 1931.
Before invention of the electric starter in 1911, steam and electric cars both outsold gasoline powered cars.
Freelan Stanley, who died in 1940, came west in 1905 because he had tuberculosis. Estes Park is at 7,500 feet elevation. Coming west must have helped because he died at age 91.
The Stanley Hotel celebrates its 100th anniversary next year. It has undergone a multimillion-dollar restoration of its 138 rooms just for that purpose. It is supposed to be haunted with the fourth floor, on top, being the most visited. Both Mr. and Mrs. Stanley, and others, have been spotted.
The Stanley Hotel was originally built with all the comforts of home except heat. It accepted guests only in the summer.
The hotel is probably best known outside Colorado for being the inspiration for the motion picture The Shining with Jack Nicholson and Olive Oyl, er, Shelly Duvall.
The hotel featured in the movie is actually in Oregon but the TV version of The Shining was filmed at the Stanley. The hotel continuously plays the movie version and the television version back to back on one of the channels available to guests.
Hmmmm... while I don't live in Howard, KS, I don't think that my Hybrid is a joke. Prior to getting a Prius, I drove a 2005 Chrysler with a 2.4 liter engine. I paid right at $400 per month for gasoline to commute to and from work, and my car payment was just a little over $400 per month. After getting a Prius, my car payment is now $339 per month, my car insurance is $35 a month cheaper and I now pay approximately $80 per month for gasoline. The math seems pretty good to me.
Dale I know what you are saying. Where I live I see so many Prius that I have no idea how many there are. I see electric(or various alternative energy source)l scooters, cars, skateboards,or motorcycles that I may have a skewed perception of how common they are. With the size of California and our obsessive love\need for cars I see all of this having a good possibility of a tremendous benefit to the United States. Also, being a child of the space program, avid sci-fi reader, and self proclaimed dreamer this thread gives me great hope.
David
Waldo I knew you would have good info on right on the tip of your tonque.
There are lots of Prius on the road here in Bartlesville and NE Oklahoma and more showing up all of the time. Patrick, with all due respect, the Hybrid, Electric and other Energy efficent automobiles of the future are not being developed to run on Elk County roads. The day is coming when we will have much higher priced gasoline and when the price will not be the only problem, having gasoline at any price will be the problem. China and India have just began to increase their energy consumption and there is very little spare producing capacity available in the world. Gasoline in Western Europe is already $10.00 to $11.00 a gallon. The worst is yet to come and I think there will be successful Electric and other powered cars to come. Our selfish, childish, do nothing Congress is setting the stage for the possibility of fuel rationing sometime in the future.
A Denver radio station played a recording on the senate floor:
On July 31, 2008, Senator Mitch McConnell, Kentucky, brought a unanimous consent proposal to the senate floor requesting that the Senate immediately consider a resolution to allow drilling in the outer continental shelf if the price of gasoline reached $4.50/gal.
Senator Ken Salazar, Colorado, immediately voiced an objection.
McConnell then suggested $5.00 per gallon gasoline should inspire the senate to vote. Salazar again objected.
McConnell then suggested $7.50 per gallon gasoline should inspire the senate to vote. Salazar again objected.
McConnell then suggested $10.00 per gallon gasoline should inspire the senate to vote. Salazar again objected calling it a "phantom" resolution.
McConnell then pulled his proposal.
The Democrats, at this point anyway, appear unwilling to drill for more oil even if the price of gasoline hits $10 per gallon.
Daimler takes a stake in electric carmaker Tesla
By Jim Jelter, MarketWatch
SAN FRANCISO (MarketWatch) -- Germany's Daimler AG has bought a 10% stake in California electric carmaker Tesla Motors Inc., a deal grounded in a common interest in lithium batteries.
"This investment deepens the relationship between the inventor of the automobile and the newest member of the global auto industry," the companies said in a joint statement Tuesday.
Terms of the deal were not disclosed, though company officers speaking to reporters in Stuttgart said it was worth a "double-digit million dollar sum."
As part of the deal, Herbert Kohler, Daimler vice president of E-drive and Future Mobility, will have a seat on Tesla's board of directors.
While further financial details remained under wraps, reasons for the stepped up collaboration are fairly clear.
Tesla, based in San Carlos, Calif., is marketing a high-priced, high-performance electric roadster in a bid to demonstrate that electric vehicles have a place on the freeway, not just the golf course.
At its core is the lithium battery pack and all the electronics that make it work.
Daimler /quotes/comstock/13*!dai/quotes/nls/dai (DAI 35.50, +0.23, +0.64%) has a keen interest in further developing those same battery packs and electronics as it pursues what it calls its sustainable mobility strategy.
Toward that end, the company had already teamed up with Tesla to integrate Tesla's lithium battery pack and recharging system into the first 1,000 units of Daimler's electric version of its diminutive Smart car, expected to debut on the test track later this year.
Daimler, which owns Mercedes Benz, brings its expertise in automotive engineering, production and supply chains to the relationship, areas industry fledgling Tesla Motors is still developing.
Tesla has struggled with production schedules, pushing back commercial delivery of its $101,500 Tesla roadster. The company is now trying to roll out a more modestly priced Model S sedan in hopes of developing a customer based that extends beyond a few well-heeled electric vehicle enthusiasts.
Daimler's cash infusion will also likely bring some financial relief to the upstart carmaker. Tesla recently applied for low-cost federal loans after its latest venture funding round failed to raise adequate capital from outside investors.
No thanks, I'll stick with my older cars. 01 dodge ram. The thing that gets me is the safety issues with smaller cars, how do cars like the prius, telsa, and others hold up in a wreck against say, a durango or a 300?
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 19, 2009, 08:13:09 PM
No thanks, I'll stick with my older cars. 01 dodge ram. The thing that gets me is the safety issues with smaller cars, how do cars like the prius, telsa, and others hold up in a wreck against say, a durango or a 300?
Actually a Tesla beats both of them in crash tests. Many cars beat a Durango and a 300. I take it you are a Dodge fan? Any way that is not the point of the discussion of electric cars.
David
Quote from: dnalexander on May 19, 2009, 08:23:27 PM
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 19, 2009, 08:13:09 PM
No thanks, I'll stick with my older cars. 01 dodge ram. The thing that gets me is the safety issues with smaller cars, how do cars like the prius, telsa, and others hold up in a wreck against say, a durango or a 300?
Actually a Tesla beats both of them in crash tests. Many cars beat a Durango and a 300. I take it you are a Dodge fan? Any way that is not the point of the discussion of electric cars.
David
Really, thats interesting when you consider that the Telsa hasn't been crash tested yet....
2009 Tesla Roadster Safety Review
John Voelcker
Editor-in-Chief
SAFETY | 6 out of 10
The small, carbon-fiber frame of the 2009 Tesla Roadster doesn't inspire the most confidence in the world when it comes to crash-test scores, but until we get official results, it's hard to know just how well this Tesla 2009 sportscar will hold up. Unfortunately, in an effort to keep weight down, the Roadster doesn't offer many of the latest safety gear options, either.
With all the money that the federal government seems to be throwing around these days, maybe it's surprising that NHTSA hasn't been given a couple hundred grand to crash test the Tesla Roadster. Then again, with a base price tag north of $100,000, perhaps it isn't that shocking. Either way, the 2009 Tesla Roadster has not yet been crash tested by either NHTSA or the IIHS, and chances are good it will be a long time before this low-production model sees a crash-test dummy sitting in the driver's seat. As soon as results for the Tesla Roadster are available, however, TheCarConnection.com will bring you the updated information.
The Tesla Roadster is still more an experimental vehicle than a mainstream one, so you cant expect the latest safety gear. According to reviewers at The Detroit News, the Tesla 2009 Roadster does feature "4-wheel ventilated disc [brakes] with ABS," which are a virtual necessity given the Tesla's performance aspirations. Cars.com adds that "standard [safety] features include...traction control and a tire pressure monitoring system." TheCarConnection.com's staff of experts is pleased to note the availability of a Valet Mode on the Tesla Roadster, which keeps both parking lot attendants and teenage children from enjoying the Tesla too much.
One of the major knocks on the 2009 Tesla Roadster's overall safety rating is the lack of rearward visibility. One quick look at the styling of the 2009 Tesla Roadster is enough to explain this criticism, and Autoblog reviewers lament the "absence of visibility past the B-pillar," where the Tesla's carbon-fiber bodywork creates significant sightline barriers.
Conclusion
Small, light, and fragile are promising, but the 2009 Tesla Roadster's handling should help you steer out of troublesome situations.
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I think that if you are going to have a discussion on electric cars you should cover all aspects..
Tests have been done just not published since it is in very limited production. You need to google better than that Billy.
David I backed up my claims with proof, can you??? Also, if the tests haven't been published how do you know about them?
Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 19, 2009, 08:53:08 PM
David I backed up my claims with proof, can you??? Also, if the tests haven't been published how do you know about them?
Billy I know because I am very aware of Tesla since I live a few blocks from them and know the founder. Also, I research better than you do. Finally, as I told you before I am not your errand boy go do your own research. I am still waiting for you to come up with a good topic for our pay for view, no holds, knock down drag out. In the mean time I love tweaking your nose. How is that for honest.
David
Honest??? You call that honest? You skated the question. Again, I backed up my claims with proof. You have not. You stated that the Telsa beat both the Durango and the Chrysler 300 in crash tests. Prove it...
And since we seem to be on the topic of honesty, I have a question for you david. You said, and I quote:
Quote from: dnalexander on May 19, 2009, 09:18:20 PM
Billy I know because I am very aware of Tesla since I live a few blocks from them and know the founder.
David
I was wondering just how far is it from San Fransico to San Carlos or from SF to Menlo Park or SF to LA? The reason I ask is that the addresses listed on the Tesla Motors website don't mention San Fransico??? How is that possible since you only live a few blocks from them??
Billy I live in between the San Carlos-Belmont border in an unincorporated area of the county of San Mateo. Keep trying.
David
Okay, david, you got me on that one. I was going on a reference you made about being in San Fransico, my bad. I guess that was a personal attack and I shouldn't have done it, I apologize.
However, back to my question about crash tests...wheres the proof?
Billy, I will be totally honest with you since I know you spent some time checking things out. I will also, say that besides agreeing with you on things related to smaller government, which is why I live in an unincorporated area that refuses attempts to be annexed into any of the three cities that surround us, I appreciate all the post you do. I think you more than anyone else reply to just about every post directed to you and I respect that. Some times I feel your tone is overly harsh and you seem always to be angry to me. Now back your question on my crash test statement. As the article that you posted and I stated the information on the crash test pm the Tesla cars has not been published and the article you posted is a persons true opinion of the Tesla Roadster which is a sports car and accurate to some extent on that specific car. Due to the carbon fiber body on the Roadster it does not measure up to the Durango and the 300 in some of the traditional crash tests. Due to it being a sports car that rival and surpasses the famed Ferrari in performance it is a spectacular representation of what future cars will be. Due to it being a sports car very good care was taken in putting a pod of survivability greater than that could be found in most passenger cars. The other two cars mentioned on the website that are much more everyday cars are have exceptional crash ratings in all categories even the ones you spoke of. Due to the fact that they also, are not in production they too have not published data that you were referring to on the Dodges. I am also sure you are aware that the Durango gets a very low score 3 out of 5 for rollover danger. The main point of my posting the article that I hope you took the time to read was due to the fact that Daimler took a 10% stake in Tesla which is a several hundred million dollar company even in its infancy. My guess is that eventually the Tesla cars which I see almost every day will become a part of a much larger auto company. In my opinion the thing that they will be most noted for is there research in battery design and the drive train patents that they have. My admiration of Tesla Motors is the fact they have come up with an electric car that actually can compete on speed and mileage with gas engine cars due to the fact they have a around 250 miles per day before needing a recharge. They are still not a replacement for gas cars, but they are way ahead of any electric cars on the market, which tend to go 60 miles in a day. Thanks for spending some time researching them. Also, if you ever come to San Carlos I will take you to the Sky Kitchen at the San Carlos Airport and you can talk to the boys from Tesla in person.
David
David