I thought this was an interesting observation, especially compared to New Orleans in the Wake of KATRINA
Just a personal observation... As I watched the news coverage of the massive flooding in the Midwest with over 100 blocks of the city of Cedar Rapids, Iowa under water, levees breaking, and the attention now turned downstream for when this massive amount of water hits the Mississippi, what amazed me is not what we saw, but *what we didn't see...*
1. We don't see looting.
2. We don't see street violence.
3. We don't see people sitting on their rooftops waiting for the government to come and save them,
4. We don't see people waiting on the government to do anything.
5. We don't see Hollywood organizing benefits to raise money for people to rebuild.
6. We don't see people blaming President Bush.
7. We don't see people ignoring evacuation orders.
8. We don't see people blaming a government conspiracy to blow up the levees as the reason some have not held.
9. We don't see the US Senators or the Governor of Iowa crying on TV.
10. We don't see the Mayors of any of these cities complaining about the lack of state or federal response.
11. We don't see or hear reports of the police going around confiscating personal firearms so only the criminal will be armed.
12. We don't see gangs of people going around and randomly shooting at the rescue workers.
13. You don't see some leaders in this country blaming the bad behavior of the Iowa flood victims on "society" (of course there is no wide spread reports of lawlessness to require excuses).
What you did see Frank, was people of all backgrounds coming together and working together to help not only themselves, but their neighbors.
It is great to see the work ethic and mentality of the mid-west in action, even in the midst of horrible tragedy.
YOU GOT IT DAN. HOWARD AND THE PEOPLE THERE ARE A GREAT EXAMPLE, PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND THE VOLUNTEERS OF THE HOWARD FIRE DEPARTMENT AND SO MANY OTHER EXAMPLES.
FRANK
People like this makes one very, very proud to be from Mid-America and especially "our small town -- Howard, Kansas
Well said -- Frank and Dan.
AMEN! Frank, I like your observations! After having spent time on LA coastline, I was SO glad to return to good old Kansas. The differences between here and there are extreme...and no, it's not because I am a closet racist. The societal norms on the LA coastline are more closely related to conditions here in the 50's-60's than they are to anything resembling 2008. I got to see REAL racism, generationally entrenched racism, first-hand...and it wasn't just from us old whiteys. Try going into a Wal-Mart, one of the greatest bastions of American thinking...the whites didn't talk to or stand next to the blacks and vice versa. I, being totally unwilling to bow to those antiquated societal norms and totally, blissfully ignorant of the fact that it was the case to begin with, made the mistake of striking up a conversation with both the black cashier and black patron in front of me. The whites in the next line were staring at me like I was sprouting cantaloupe vines out of the sides of my head and the blacks all around us were looking at me like, "that uppity white thing doesn't know her place in life".
I guess that's why, when I see some of the vitreolic responses that have come from some on this site, I just shake my head...people here, who have not traveled to places like I have spoken about, have absolutely no idea what real, real, real racism is...people here, even if they have their own racial suspicions, still will acknowledge each other, even if it's only a civil nod in the other's direction. People here will, generally speaking, hold a civil conversation, no matter how brief, and build a small bridge between themselves and that person who is a different color or from a different area of the world. Don't expect that down where racism is alive and well and people on BOTH sides of the fence are working day and night to keep it that way.
I am so glad to be from the midwest!
Catwoman I agree with your observations. I do not feel that I am racist at all. Recently Myrna and I were in Sam's in Tulsa and in the line in front of us was a little Black Lady that had some heavy items is her cart I moved up next to her and told her to let me help her and i emptied her cart then helped her get the items back in it ands loaded, I ask her if I could help her to the car and unload it she no, her grandson was at the door and he would do it. She thanked me over and over and I told her I was partial to Mothers and Grandmothers. In fact I have a tremendous amount of respect for hardworking people of any race and I have very little if any respect for lazy people that want the government to take care of them, no matter what race they are. THIS ELECTION IS NOT ABOUT RACE AND IT APPEARS TO ME THE ONES TRYING TO MAKE ABOUT RACE ARE THE OBAMA SUPPORTERS. LOOK AT THE TO MINISTERS THAT HAVE BEEN OBAMA'S RELIGIOUS MENTORS, IS THAT NOT RACISM AT IT'S WORST.
Frank
Catwoman I have to agree with you to a great extent on the difference in racism in the Midwest vs. West Coast. I have spent many years in Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay Area. The racism here is much more subtle but in many ways deeper and ready to explode. Too many thoughts going through my head on this topic so I will just stop here and come back when I can come up with a more purposeful post.
David
What Catwoman was talkin about reminded me of a couple times in my life. Once in Tulsa and once in New Orleans.
Bout 20 years ago I made a parts run to Tulsa for the pipeline outfit I was workin for and I couldn't find the place I was lookin for cause I had never been to Tulsa before so I pulled off the highway to ask for directions at a station and this old black guy came out and started freakin, tellin me I shouldn't be there that that wasn't no neighborhood for a white girl which kinda freaked me out in return because I didn't know what the hell he was talkin about! He finally calmed down enough to give me directions and I said thanks and went on my way. Since then I've heard about what happened in Tulsa years ago and guess that guy must have been alive then.
The other time was about 12 years ago or so when my husband and me and the kids went to New Orleans for our one and only vacation we've ever been on. We accidently got down in the fourth ward and the looks we got would've peeled the hide off an elephant!
people who grow up in a place like rural Kansas really don't have a clue what true racism is or what can happen to you because of it. It really is different and more virulent I guess.
As most of y'all know, I live in Atlanta, Georgia now, and I can truly tell you that Racism is very much alive and well. Unlike anything I ever experienced back in Kansas. I was truly shocked when I moved here.
I have traveled all of the US and the world including West Africa, India and the Middle East, I spent 27 years in Texas and I am most aware of what racism, probably much more than most. In any case I don not consider myself racist. I have friends of other races, I have worked with people of other races, I had neighbors of other races, I went to college with people of other races, I have had people work for me of other races, I have had people of other races coach my children and I have been in youth sports with people of other races, and I have relatives of other races. I better stop and get off this subject and politics, it is raising my blood pressure.
Frank
Frank I don't know where you got the idea anybody said you were racist? Sounds to me like we were ALL sharin experiences we have HAD with racism and our ignorance of the depth of it because we all grew up where it wasn't really an issue in our lives!
Frank, no one who reads you would ever call you a racist. Far from it. You have an extremely objective, pragmatic viewpoint that is a delight to read and absorb. I am not surprised to learn of the extent to which you have traveled...you have always posted such literate, thoughtfilled items...and I am also not surprised that you are someone who has enjoyed the company of people from other lands and persuasions. :-) I have spent a great deal of time dealing with foreign nationals and have found that it was like taking a trip around the world without having to leave Kansas. Now, granted, there were a few apples with rot spots in there, but the experience has been so gratifying, overall, that I wouldn't trade it for anything. I applaud you, Frank. And keep the observations coming...you give me something else to think about other than my topsy-turvy life!
After reading this post from first to last, and then going back to read Frank's original post... I think my opinion is that this may be the difference of living in the midwest vs. larger cities and urban areas. I know that there are large cities around/along the current flood plain, but the towns that are affected the most seem small in comparison to New Orleans and that area. I'm not sure racism or color has anything to do with Frank's original observations; just the difference in area of the US and what type of areas are affected (farm ground and small communities).
Also there was a great difference in response by government, both local and federal. Nobody wanted to be compared with Katrina and the complete failure of that infrastructure. The people behaved poorly with no leadership as well as the local authorities. A lot of lessons were learned with Katrina, and hopefully they will not be in vane. My heart goes out to those who lost their homes in the flooding.
I am living in St. Joseph, Missouri after living in Howard for two years. I went to a car wash here in St. Joe to go through the automatic wash and then went to anothe car wash to vacuum the car as the vacuums were not surrounded by ice and snow. When I had the trash all out of my car, I leaned against it to rest for a moment before vacuuming. I noticed a slender black man about 35 years old cleaning his car which was a white Cadillac with black leather interior. He appeared to me as someone I should be afraid of, someone that might be a drug dealer. He came over to me and offered to vacuum for me and when he finished he wiped down the outside of my car just like he was doing to his own. I offered him money and he would not take it. All this was help from a perfect stranger of another race. Susan
A couple of us just got off on our own side discussion, that's all.
Tobina, I think it is the difference in cultures and attitudes of the Rural and Midwest Verses the City and New Orleans in Particular. To me New Orleans and it's culture was a WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD, I have been to New Orleans on business in the past and Frankly I was disappointed.
The Midwest and Rural attitude has always been: "IF IT IS TO BE IT IS UP TO ME" or as Larry the Cable Guy says, "GIT'ER DONE".
Frank
Why were you disappointed?
In the French Quarter and on Bourbon Street the crime, smell, panhandlers, hookers and and other things I won't mention here. I will say the food was absolutely fabulous and the people that I was dealing with were very hospitable, it was an unforgettable experience and one that made me thankful I lived in the Rural Midwest and I was raising my family in Bartlesville verses New Orleans.
Frank
I got ya. The smell WAS awful, but the architecture and the atmosphere was awesome. I loved Jackson square. But yeah there were some buildings I had to keep my 12 and 13 year old boys from readin billboards on ::)
If this offends anyone -- accept my apology before I get started.
If the NCAAP would butt out of all the crap they bring up -- the racist thing would definitely cool down. Any little thing that comes up -- they jump on it like a dog on a bone. I personally find them VERY agitating, to every issue, large or small.
Now ~~ hear this....my favorite Winn boy is GOOD - KIND - LOVING - SHARING - HELPFUL and NOT RACIST IN ANY SHAPE NOR FORM
Can you tell, I really, really like this man???
Have a happy day, Frank!
Jo, thanks, you made my day and we think you and Fred are very special also. You set a great example for young people in Howard. You and Fred were both super hard workers and an inspiration to all who knew you. Just observing your Daughters, their Philosyphy, hard work and dedication and your Grandchildren and their work, dedication great attitudes is a credit to you and Fred and the success you have had in the most important venture that we take in life, our children. YOU AND FRED HAVE A GREAT DAY
Frank
Jo, I agree with you!!! He's my favorite Winn Boy too! Thanks for the kind words!
mlw
MY personal observation is that everyone on this thread is taking things a little out of context. I believe the root of this conversation is the differences in the way natural disasters in the heart of this country are dealt with compared to the way they have been dealt with in other areas of the country... like New Orleans. I don't think racism has anything to do with it, nor has anyone intended to be racist. I think we in the Mid-West, should be insulted that our natural disasters don't rate much more than a news story on TV. And, like in Frank's original post, that no celbs or big disaster-relief programs have been rushing to our aid. BUT, we should be proud that we don't need to rely on those people or programs, either. We have the "neighbor effect" working to our advantage, and don't have to worry about looting and stealing and shootings. If half our belongings floated downstream, it's more than likely that someone downstream will find it and bring it back to us.
I think these were good observations, Frank. Thanks for making us realize where we live and how to appreciate our situation, even in the darkest of times. And thanks to all my neighbors... near and far (and those who's hearts are in the midwest)... for being a good, honest, hardworking person. You make me proud to be your neighbor!
Unfortunately some disasters are not big enough or media sensational enough to get the help they need. I am interested in what help is needed in the midwest floods. From what I can find out many companies are donating\helping directly in the region, Red Cross, United Way, and Congress just approved $2.5 billion. It's frustrating that what we hear about the Midwest Floods is different from the reality. It seems we did not learn anything from the Katrina disaster. What help needs to be done. Gives me one more thing to send Congress along with my Energy Crisis complaints. There are people outside the midwest that care.
David
Quote from: dnalexander on June 27, 2008, 01:11:02 PM
There are people outside the midwest that care.
Sorry, David. I was grumpy this morning (12 am getting home and not a pleasant flight getting here) and I didn't word things quite correctly. Yes, many people outside the midwest care.
Quote from: Tobina on June 27, 2008, 11:21:15 AM
(and those who's hearts are in the midwest)...
I guess I just get tired of celebs making such a big deal over other disasters just for their own media coverage.
That's an excellent question about what can and needs to be done in the flooded area. Again, not much media coverage on what help can be given.
One thing that could be done is not build any more levees and build in the flood plain. Most of these areas are the same ones that flooded in 1992, and were not supposed to be built on. It is like buliding multi-million dollar homes on the costal plain and expecting John-Q taxpayer to bail them out when (and not if), a hurricane comes by. Flood plains are just that; a place that floods. Maybe not every year or every ten years, but building in these areas needs to be stopped. Again, I sympathize with the people whose homes and livlihoods were lost. A visit needs to be paid to the great floods of 1932; long before my birth but it devastated many communities along the Mississippi river. At that time, many communities were not built back because of the flood danger. But through the years, profit and greed has overcome caution once again. And by the way, there was a tremendous outcry for the treatment of the people by the federal government as a result of that flood. If we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it over and over.
Tobina no need to apologize that is the way you felt and it brings up a very important topic. Here in California right now we have over 1000 wild fires burning. This is something that happens every year and will kill 20 to 50 people, destroy hundred of homes, and cost a few billion dollars- every year. The reason it is not a complete disaster is because of the "Mutual Aid" pact that exists between fire departments all over the US. (Currently 41 states are contributing teams) Hopefully we can extend this well honed "Mutual Aid" machine to other types of disasters.
SDM, The real point is not to say don't build where there are hurricanes, tornados, floods, earthquakes, no food, no water, no jobs, tsunamis, typhoons, wildfires, hail storms... have we run out of places to live yet?. But to help those in need when and how we can.
David