ELECTION 2008
Is Obama's candidacy constitutional?
Secrecy over birth certificate, demand for 'natural-born' citizenship cited
Posted: June 10, 2008
9:44 pm Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
Bloggers are raising questions about Illinois Sen. Barack Obama's qualifications to be U.S. president, because of the secrecy over his birth certificate and the requirement presidents be "natural-born" U.S. citizens.
Jim Geraghty, reporting on the Campaign Spot, a National Review blog, cited the "unlikely" but still circulating rumor that Obama was born not within the United States, but elsewhere, possibly Kenya.
Geraghty defined the concerns most clearly, stating: "If Obama were born outside the United States, one could argue that he would not meet the legal definition of natural-born citizen ... because U.S. law at the time of his birth required his natural-born parent (his mother) to have resided in the United States for '10 years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.'"
He then points out Ann Dunham, Obama's mother, was 18 when Obama was born "so she wouldn't have met the requirement of five years after the age of 16."
Geraghty continues: " (Interestingly, apparently there isn't much paperwork on Obama's parents' marriage. 'Obama: From Promise to Power,' page. 27: 'Obama later confessed that he never searched for the government documents on the marriage, although Madelyn (Obama's maternal grandmother) insisted they were legally married.' Also note that Obama's father apparently was not legally divorced from his first wife back in Kenya at the time, a point of contention that ultimately led to their separation.)"
The reports released to date show Obama was born in Honolulu to Barack Hussein Obama Sr., of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Kenya, and Ann Dunham, of Wichita, Kan.
According to FindLaw.com, which is cited by Geraghty, the requirements that were in force from Dec. 24, 1952 to Nov. 13, 1986, encompassing the time of Obama's birth, state, "If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16."
Obama's father, a student sent to the United States from Africa, lived several places in the United States while attending class. He then returned to his homeland. Obama's mother later married another man and moved to Indonesia.
Geraghty said the Obama campaign could "debunk" the rumors about his birth simply by releasing a copy of his birth certificate, but the campaign has so far chosen not to do that.
"The campaign cited the birth certificate in their 'Fact Check' on William Ayers, so presumably, someone in the campaign has access to it," he said.
Hawaii doesn't make public information from birth certificates.
"If the concern of the Obama campaign is that the certificate includes his Social Security number or some other data that could be useful to identity thieves, that information could easily be blocked out and the rest released. (Although I wonder if identity thieves would find Obama a tougher than usual target, since using the name on purchases would almost inevitably bring closer scrutiny.)," Geraghty said.
The Obama campaign repeatedly has declined to respond to WND requests for comment.
The presumptive Republican nominee for president, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., already has gone through the same type of challenge, and the U.S. Senate responded with a resolution in April declaring him to be a "'natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States."
That article declares that "no person except a natural born citizen ... shall be eligible to the Office of president."
McCain was challenged because he was born to two U.S. citizens in the Panama Canal Zone.
According to a report from Michael Dobbs on The Fact Checker, the McCain campaign consulted two leading jurists, Theodore Olsen and Laurence Tribe, and they agreed.
"They argue that McCain is a natural born citizen because the United States exercised sovereignty over the Panama Canal at the time of his birth on August 29, 1936, he was born on a U.S. military base, and both of his parents were U.S. citizens," the report said.
Others say the issue isn't quite that simple, and the matter could be resolved fully only by a constitutional amendment or a U.S. Supreme Court ruling.
Interesting............
Warph. Many of your posts are sensational and dramatic. Your use of bold type and red font colors are effective. You quote sources but do not include a link to them to support your claims You do not state your point of view but that of others. You leave us to decipher what is your point. Rarely do you respond to others comments. I have to say that I do not agree what with you usually post I do see someone that is intelligent and cunning in posting. I think you hurt your cause by the sensationalism. If you really want to have a discussion we can have a debate\conversation. Obama and McCain both are proven U.S citizens able to run for President. I sincerely say that you do make me think.
David
Once again..................
Interesting.
Thank you David!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66787
There's your links.
I have spent several hours researching both sides of this debate. I read things by bloggers, legal experts, and many pages of Federal Law text. It was quite an education on "natural born citizenship", history and constitutional law. I sincerely say to WARPH thanks for the mental exercise. I learned something. It proves that debate is good and can lead to increasing your knowledge.
David
You know? It is the most emotional election year to pass I think.. and no matter what anyone says.. it is a hell if you do and hell if you don't situation.
It wears me slick clean out! Some times I get so emotional and over wrought at it all..
.and then other times I am so drained I just say
".......ahhhhhhh..wellll ..
.........shuffling my feet.....
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/shy.gif)
I can't really say on here, what I say... but let me tell you.. when I say it.. I really say it! :laugh:
;D
David,,, you're a "thinker." This is good.... and you're quite welcome. Exercise is great, whether mental or physical.
By the way, I have a theory: I think we're far less evolved ourselves. I know we consider ourselves to be very twenty-first century creatures, we take it all in, we deal with it . .we put it back out. We are just the hippest little creatures, but you know something? We live in a madhouse and it's brought into our living rooms on a day-to-day level via CNN and other news channels. And we see things that we probably aren't equipped to even vaguely get our head around. The problems in Somalia where they haven't had a functioning government since 1991.. . . the atrocities in Darfur and Mogadisha.... Iraq... and everything else that's going on in this wounded world of ours. I think all this stuff comes down and we think, "Christ, it really is out of control." And you know what, it is out of control. I guess adult life is just a tall grade school and sometimes we forget the playground is way back there in the mist. I know I sound cynical and grouchy at times with my posts but maybe it's my way of getting back at these worldly problems by doing this and it keeps my feet tethered to the planet. I hate to say it but, I think this is what it's come to in contemporary America. Everybody's broken off into these petulant little Travis Bickle tribes. Everybody walks the perimeter of their own damaged esteem ever-vigilant against an incursion by: They. Them. The Other Guys. Sometimes it's like everybody's touchy and everybody's encouraged to be touchy. And if I'm expected to be genial, there's a principle of reciprocity here, and I expect everyone to do the same. I'm sure it is that way for most people, too. Enough of the soap box rhetoric.
Y'know Warph,I think you've got a point.Part of the problem is that nothing positive comes in with the horrendous except maybe for their little 30 second feel good segment. A lot of things ARE out of control, but I think really they always have been. It's just that before the days of world broadcast news we didn't hear about every one of them. So we circle the wagons and wait for the next attack and if we think it's somthin we CAN or OUGHT to control we come out shootin. If not we stay hid and holler this is mine go away. I don't expect people to be genial about things they are passionate about and they best not expect me to be either. You can be passionate about somthin and still be respectful and that's what I generally try to do. But hey everybody has their moments, in them cases you step back pull the leg out of your mouth and start over lol. I enjoy readin your posts, they make me think also ( and laugh and sometimes say WTF?! LOL)
I don't know that we have to be genial, necessarily, but I would much rather hear civilized discourse. The name calling and sensationalism that abounds surrounding the Presidential race is wearing thin and distracts us from the real issues. Below is an excerpt that explains it pretty well.
David
Civilized Discourse
"A democracy requires its citizens to think rather than simply to obey. All people in a free society benefit when discourse is civil, which means that it should be reasoned, fact-filled, literate, specific, and respectful of the moral standards of the majority. Let us think and speak clearly and with the best of intentions."
"One of the most commonly employed tactics in election campaigns and in the Culture War in general is name-calling. People and ideas are branded and dismissed summarily rather than being the target of reasoned argumentation. Yes, it's an ancient practice, long a staple of American politics. But venerable or not, name-calling is among the lowest substitutes for civilized discourse."
Thomas C. Reeves, Professor of History at University of Wisconsin--Parkside, and Senior Fellow, Wisconsin Policy Institute
Full text online at History News Network.
http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/4476.html
Very well stated, Pam..... especially that last sentence ;)..... LOL
In response to the original subject of this thread go to truth or fiction. com and type in Obama birth certificate. This is in fact a fictional rumor designed to sully this candidate. Hawaii became a state in 1959; Barack Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961. The site also gives a link to a copy of his birth certificate. This is as bad as the drubbing that John McCain received at the hands of GW in the N Carolina primary. Smear tactics, and so many people are so ready to believe the absolute worst about anyone.
Please re-read the article, SixDogsMom. I think you'll find that WorldNetDaily is NOT smearing Obama, that they are wondering WHY he hasn't released his birth certificate, which had been requested numerous times by the media and thousands of bloggers. This article came out on June 10th. Obama released his birth certificate on his new site, "Fight The Fears" which was lauched June 12th.
Before placing the article on the forum, I checked with Snopes and Truth & Fiction and it wasn't on either site June 10th so it had to be entered on T.& F. June 12th. when Obama released his B.C. on his new site.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/politics&id=6200951
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66981
And the article you posted was based on untruths, period. It is all too easy to find bad things about a candidate instead of finding good things about your own. There are many undesirable things in McCains' past that I have not posted because I do not think it helpful. However I am going to tell you every time if you have a hole in your pants or your story. It is obvious that you are far right and biased to the max. You are way too intelligent to stoop to these kinds of things, and should be ashamed.
Really.... could you point them out to me?
What the hole in your pants or the one in your story? Senator Obama was born in the state of Hawaii to an american born woman and a Kenyan born man. His mother was an american citizen, and the law you presented about age etc is bogus. The rest of the article is designed as a red herring to focus on Muslim, Africa, and etcetera ad nauseum. But what would you expect from a far right publication anyway? I do not see one thing good about the republican candidate from you or any other conservative. Whats' up with that? Or are you all hoping to resurrect Ron Paul?
LOL.... Now, now.... be nice. I take it you're a democrat and you're for Obama. I'm a republican. That is a good enough reason not to discuss politics with each other. I'm not really in love with McCain but, I'm still a republican and that is the way I'll vote. I felt their were more qualified men in the republican party running for pesident but McCain beat them out for the top spot. I'm not supportive of some of his issues but I think the party will steer him in the right direction. We'll just have to wait and see on that one, won't we. November is four months away and alot can happen in those four short months.
I am proud to say that I am a democrat. Now does that mean I have always and will always vote democrat, No! I will (and have)voted for the candidate that best represents my values and standards, as I hope all citizens do. There is nothing that anyone can say to me to sway my beliefs. I look up the information that I am wanting to know on my own. I do not want others telling me how to think or that I am naive or stupid for gettting caught up in a person because he/she speaks eloquently.
What do I find that is important to me? My family, my country, the economy, and education! All of these will factor into how I vote, not anything that some person or group says negatively of one of the candidates. It is a person's instinct though to "smear" people that they don't believe in. To find whatever unpleasing information that they can find and use it to their own benefit. But how effective is that type of campaining. For me, this doesn't shine brightly on their own values. It makes me feel that they are negative people. I feel instead of beating down the candidate that you are not for, shine a light on the one you are for!
Minnie, I so agree with you! I needed that is this crazy election.
Amen Minnie! A Big Amen!
Thanks Minnie, we need to hear the postive things about the candidates and not all the negative thoughts about the other candidate.