Found this to be most interesting.
1. There will be NO special bilingual programs in the schools, NO special ballots for elections,
and all government business will be conducted in our language.
2. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote, no matter how long they are here.
3. Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.
4. Foreigners will NOT be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, NO food stamps,
NO health care, nor any other government assistance programs.
5. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
6. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are NOT allowed to own waterfront property.
That property is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
7. Foreigners may NOT protest; NO demonstrations, NO waving a foreign
flag, NO political organizing, NO 'bad-mouthing' our president or his
policies. If you do you will be sent home.
8. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.
Harsh, you say ?
The above laws happen to be the immigration laws of, MEXICO !
Mexico is not exactly a model nation for laws of any kind. If one yearns for the laws of Mexico, one should live in Mexico. I would hope that as Americans, we can be more open and sympathetic to the needs of others. That's one of the reasons so many people want to come here. Maybe I don't agree with the way they are getting into the US, but it's hard to blame them for trying.
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/zipper.gif)
I probably best be quiet... :)
Teresa! Please don't be quiet! That would be absolutely no fun.
At the worst, we would agree to disagree.
At the best, we would each learn something.
Besides, on an issue as legally thorny and emotionally wrought as this one, there is no One Right Way.
tHESE WOULD BE GOOD LAWS FOR THE U.S. TO ESTABLISH! IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING SOON,WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A COUNTRY.
There is only one right way in my opinion, come spend a week in far West Texas and you will agree.
Frank
I have spent weeks in far West, and far South, Texas, Frank. I have also spent weeks in Arizona and New Mexico. I have spent some time in the barrios of several cities in our county. And I would guess that, while our opinions would agree on parts of this subject, I'm sure they would differ in others. That's just the way opinions are. I'd sure be willing to listen if you want to tell me what I have said that strikes you wrong.
Perhaps you have spent weeks in many of the far directions of Texas, Kermit, but have you had to live the life that is going on in those place's RIGHT NOW???? With the situations as they are in this present time?
Well, I keep up with all the news. So I would say, yes, Jo, I have a pretty good idea. If you are talking about the lives of the people that are coming across the border, and how awful it is, one would think if it wasn't better than where they came from, they would be going the other way across the border. It works both ways.
Still and all, it doesn't help much to just say what's wrong with the current situation. The important thing is what we do next. We have to do something. It just seems that no one can agree with what that something is.
We hear so much about immigration, illegal and otherwise, do any of you know any stats on emmigration? (out migration) I know there are lots of people who do leave for other countries and do go back where they came from, so to speak. I wonder what the number is as compared to immigration.
San Diego County is being heard from! It's hard for me to read the postings, and not put in my 2¢ worth. I have a lot of really good friends, who are "Hispanic." We respect and truly do "like" each other. So, it's not the "Hispanic" we're opposed to, or the Vietnamese, or Chinese, etc., etc. It's just that, "there's a line to get in," and I (we) truly do encourage all wishing to "come to American" to get in that line, and wait your turn, and do it the legal way, like all of those good people did who got here ahead of you. We know that the world is becoming overpopulated and more people are going into poverty and starvation every year. And, as stated before, "who wouldn't want to come to America, and live, what "they" perceive to be "the good life!" But, how many of these people can America support? 10 million? 100 million? 1 billion? Draw the line where you want to, the point is that just because we have compassion for the poor does not mean we can save everybody from poverty by bringing them to our country. Compassion is a wonderful thing, we have a lot of compassion for those less fortunate than we are, but compassion isn't enough to pay the millions/billions of dollars that we, in the "border states" are paying for the health care and education of those people who are coming into our country illegally, and actually, receiving benefits that the "poor American" isn't entitled to. So, now I feel better! I'll come down off of my soap box!
Well said, Bonnie M.
It's not just the border states that are feeling the pinch. Kansas city now has a very sizeable Hispanic community, as does Lawrence. Heck, take a look at Garden City. I am feeling the extra costs of illegal immigration as much as the next person. Bonnie asks an important question: where do we draw the line?
I don't think that we can draw the line in the past. It is just not going to work to round people up and sen them back to Mexico, or wherever else they are illegally here from. That looks a little too much like the Gestapo. The problem is that we have just been talking big, but doing very little, about illegal immigration for many years. If we put our minds, and our wills, to the task we could put a stop to illegal immigration by the end of the year. Maybe we could bring troops home from Iraq to see that it happens. But as long as we are willing to allow our politicians to make laws that they will not enforce, the problem will grow.
If we want it stopped, we need to send a clear message and not take "No" for an answer just because Washington is too weak to make it happen. But it's too late, in my opinion, to stem the tide of the past.
My friends. Bonnie and Frank. are "Where it IS REALLY happening --- we here in the Middle of America - know only a smattering of what the border states are having to put up with ---- It is time for our leaders to do something, besides nip at one anothers back sides and keep their hands in their pockets to count the loot that they have harvested for their own cash crop. Even with all of the talking of each American --- I don't understand how we are going to get our elected officials to listen and respond. We are told to write - talk - e mail our representives -- and we do that, but do they take any actions on our behalf????? I don't seem to see the results anywhere.
You are 100% correct about the lack of action, Jo. I am sure we could have managed to stop the influx, or at least slow it to a trickle, if we had taken concerted action when it started being a big problem. As for politicians, we need some new ones. I don't much care what party they work for; I just want them to pay attention to us and not the lobbyists, and others with money to grease their palms.
How do you folks feel about the illegals that are already here?
Do you realize the word that is continually being said?
ILLEGAL!
Hello??? Last time I checked. it meant that illegal meant "not legal!
If they can not prove citizenship.. ship them back to where they came from..
Sorry! Hard assed is what I am on this subject!
I'm sorry that they live where they live, but it's NOT our job as Americans to breast feed ILLEGALS!
We have enough to nurse with our lax and over scammed welfare system that is being abused every single minute.
And the only reason we don't have illegal Vietnamese, or Chinese people coming here is the fact that they can't
swim across the ocean.!
I'm not saying anything about anyone not being nice people.. or good people. THAT has nothing to do with it!
The fact is... as soon as they step on U.S. soil.. they get free housing, free food, free medical... plus the freedom to abuse our countries rules, thumb their nose at our flag and our customs, and can't or won't speak the language!.
Some will crawl across the line and pop out a baby on the grass ..so we get the privilege to pay for the care etc. of the child too.
Again.. I have a soft heart.. but enough is enough!
And come on.. use your heads!
It isn't rocket science to know that we are going to bury ourselves economically and space wise if we keep giving every single person from Mexico with a bundle of clothes on their backs free 'everything'.
To all the liberal bleeding hearts wanting to "save the world.. answer me this?
How long can we make the hard working citizens of America pay for the millions that are here ILLEGALLY?!?
In this country, let ME do something ILLEGAL.. and see what happens. Let ME try to get a phony SS card and and work... or get arrested for rape charges, assault charges.. be pulled over for drunk driving and have 10 DUI's, all on phony drivers licenses...driving a vehicle without insurance.! We all know what would happen to me..
But let me be an ILLEGAL.. and my hands are slapped and I am led quietly out the back door, so no one has to do the dirty work of shipping me back to my own country.
And God help me if I..being an American.. did all of that in another country! They would pipe me sunshine..IF I was lucky!
And do not give me that song and dance about.. "They will work at jobs that no one else wants, and they pay taxes on that money.
"Well excuuuuse me for not just jumping up and down for grateful joy on that one.
They pay taxes? Uhhhhhhhh....HOW? They are illegals..!?!
They have no citizenship papers or legal papers..and even IF they did... ??
Supposedly they get so small of wages that... the last time I did taxes, they were exempt from paying because of the poverty class.. and even if they DID pay anything....
Ahuuummm lets see.. How does that add up?
Since they are NOT here legally.. and they have broken the law and we are rewarding them for doing it..
They get free medicine, and free clothes and free food and free housing..
So does the dab that they pay offset all that? I don't think so ...................
The crime rate is getting worse and check out what percentage is illegals ! Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics . If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
Illegal..against the law.. breaking the law.. not legal.
Solution?
Take for instance Elvira Arellano..
Not only was Elvira a defiant and repeat lawbreaker, but she is an egotistical grandstander who shamefully
exploits her 7-year old son Saul, using the family unification argument.
Saul, who was born an anchor baby and can't be deported, is now 7 years old.
My question is.... if these "activists" ( and that is a kind word for them) are really so concerned about Saul,
why don't they finance a one-way trip for him to go to Mexico? That way Saul can be with his mother all the time.
I mean.... if that's really what they want!
But they won't do that.. ...My guess is their real goal is not to unite the mother and son,
but it is to score another victory for illegal immigration.
And get this little tidbit!
The Comisión Permanente also called on the Mexican foreign ministry to help Saul and for the Institute of Mexicans Abroad to pay for a scholarship so he can study in Chicago.
(How about a scholarship for him to study in Mexico? It's cheaper, and there are good private schools there).
And since the Mexican government is claiming jurisdiction over Saul, wouldn't that......
according to the 14th Amendment's "subject to the jurisdiction thereof"......,
make him a citizen of Mexico, and not of the United States?
One thing for certain emerged from the recent bleeding heart circus surrounding this female illegal alien, Elvira Arellano...
deporting aliens is as easy as 1,2,3.
The next time you hear any government official say how impossible immigration enforcement is, remember this simple formula:
1.....go to where you know aliens are;
2..... arrest them;
3..... deport them.
Don't bother asking where aliens hang out. The better question is where aren't they hanging out.
Go to a bus stop, a taco truck, a convenience store, the post office or an auto repair shop.
No need to round them all up at once. Just arrest one or two every day at different locations around town
and the message will soon get out loud and clear.
Little by little, the word will be on the streets both here and in Mexico that the U.S.
is seriously cracking down on illegal immigration, instead of wimping out,
whining and wringing their hands and letting more in.
What would also help is if aliens were sent further away than Tijuana which is, after all, within walking distance of San Diego!!
I am totally through and will now shut up.
If I had to take blood pressure medicine I would go right in and swallow an extra one...
I am not mad at anyone on this forum ..
I think everyone has and is entitled to their own opinion, regardless if it makes any sense or if it doesn't.
It's just that I have no patience or tolerance for this.
Have a nice evening~~~
As
someone who jumped through all the hoops INS held out,
someone who filled out all the paperwork-enough to write a book about myself and my family,
someone who went through all the criminal and medical background checks to make sure I was neither insane or a criminal or had any communicable(sp) diseases
someone who waited in line for 2 years for the right to join my husband in the USA.
Someone who lived here the required length of time and then jumped through another set of hoops, background checks, paperwork, intelligence tests and another 2 year wait to become a citizen.
I have to agree with Teresa and Bonnie--come here legally or stay home
Obviously a topic that spurs much emotion. Anything that deals with moral issues usually does. Often the legal, while unsympathetic, solutions create the most emotion.
For example....Nobody wants to turn away a starving individual. It just doesn't seem right. However, in a context in which providing for that starving individual will cause you to starve, then it becomes more clear.
I think everyone understands why the aliens want to come here. There is more opportunity here than where they live. There are excellent social programs that exist here. They want a better life for themselves and their families. All this we have heard, over and over and over. Guess what......So do I, but I am not going to rob a bank or go mug Bill Gates to get it. In other words, I am not going to break the law because I feel justified in getting a better opportunity.
This was sent to me in 2005 and I have ran it through snopes and it did happen. At the time I first read it I thought it was insightful, but kind of "out there". Now I think it is past insightful and just plain scary. It is a bit long, but PLEASE take the time to read it and actually give it some thought.
Every American should read this and think!
Subject: How To Destroy America
"We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context
his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an
immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to
capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant
college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his
latest book, Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and
illegal - was destroying the entire state of California. He said it
would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The
American Dream
Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and
gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat
spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the
United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too
self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that
hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time
Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and
that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit
suicide.'"
Here is how they do it," Lamm said:
"First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or
multi-lingual and bicultural country." History shows that no nation
can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more
competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual
to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.
Thehistorical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: "The histories
of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are
histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy." Canada, Belgium,
Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which
minorities press for autonomy, if not. independence. Pakistan and
Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France
faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans.".
Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism'
and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an
article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no
cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the
Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and
discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of
bounds.
Third, "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without
much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As
Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: "The apparent
success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have
been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance
that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an
American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us
together." Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their
own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor
with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have
various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their
differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."
"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least
educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated,
undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this
second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school".
"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations
and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in
ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I
would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the
fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all
minority failure on the majority population."
"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship,
and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity.
I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people
worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they
are not killing each other. A. diverse, peaceful, or stable society is
against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it
takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The
Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a
common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All
Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia,
threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough
to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions
that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" --
From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on
the 'pluribus'. instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as
surely as Kosovo."
"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to
talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a
word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped
discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe'
halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural
country, having established multi-culturism, having the large
foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it
impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra:
That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be
good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the
cumulative impact of millions of them."
In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow.
Profound silence followed. Finally he said,. "Lastly, I would censor
Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It
exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America. deserves to
be destroyed, don't read that book.".
There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous
cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that
room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically,
quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today.
Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the
foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness.
Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing
as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the
Third World as corporations create a Third World in. America - take
note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal
aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book
"1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of
Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance
is strength.".
Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the
conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is
deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration
monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California
wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American
Dream."
In the last year I have watched two people going through all the hoops, as Bonnie says, to get their future spouses into this country. Now these are highly educated, stable people with a great track record.
The Acrobats of China, a wonderful show in Branson, has to run two different groups of performers because they cannot stay in the country long enough to do a full season with one troupe. This to me is just insane. These young people are disciplined, chaperoned and perfroming once or twice a day, but no they can't be trusted to be here a full season.
If we are supposed to provide everything for the poor south of the border, then I'm for invading it, kicking out their
corrupt politicians and turning it into a prosperous Capitalistic society that provides for itself. Then they all can happily
stay home. There......someone has said it out loud!!!
Teresa, I think you "said it all!" I received this in an e-mail yesterday:
"I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed.
Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.
But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue.
Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table...everywhere.
Then some of the birds turned mean: They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket.
And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.
After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore.
I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone.
I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.
Soon, the back yard was like it used to be ...... quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.
Now let's see ....... our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen.
Then the illegal's came by the tens of thousands.
Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services;
small apartments are housing 5 families:
you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor:
your child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English:
Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box;
I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in English,
People waving flags other than "Old Glory" are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
Maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder."
Bonnie, that is well said.
Myrna
Quote from: Bonnie M. on August 24, 2007, 09:17:15 AM
Teresa, I think you "said it all!" I received this in an e-mail yesterday:
"I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed.
Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.
But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue.
Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table...everywhere.
Then some of the birds turned mean: They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket.
And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.
After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore.
I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone.
I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.
Soon, the back yard was like it used to be ...... quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.
Now let's see ....... our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen.
Then the illegal's came by the tens of thousands.
Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services;
small apartments are housing 5 families:
you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor:
your child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English:
Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box;
I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in English,
People waving flags other than "Old Glory" are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
Maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder."
I love analogies, and that is perhaps the best I have seen!!
There are some things that could be done right now, if politics will allow it. Stop deporting Hispanic illegals. They will figure out a way to come back. Give Hispanic countries notice when this will begin. Send them to federal prisons for long stays. We are paying for them anyway, and that would take the burden off the states that have the biggest problem. Repeal the notion that you become a citizen if you are born here. Illegal parents, no automatic citizenship. Embrace legal middle class immigrant families who do work hard to come here the right way, and bring their skills with them. They do try hard to learn English, if they don't already have it. Go back to the years when immigrants were sponsored by families and churches, who assured that new arrivals had a place to stay and a job. Make work and student visas much longer for people who play by the rules, but don't allow them to disappear either. Make the penalties much, much stronger for the coyotes who bring illegals into the U.S. Put big bounties on their heads. Put fences along the border where it makes sense, but we have to be sensitive to water rights and animal movements. There are high tech, but expensive, ways to discourage border crossings. They don't kill, but they will make you try to get away from them. Heat and sound tower technology is out there. Of course there will always be someone out there trying to beat it. The people of the state of New Jersey have had enough. Those last student murders really set people off. The main assassin was a really awful criminal illegal. New Jersey is a sanctuary state that illegal criminals flock to. They may start losing federal funding if they don't change their stance soon.
Those are really good common sense points Diane..
Kermit...
I was not screaming at you personally. I was under the impression that the topic was about illegals , not Kermit.
But ....whatever...............
(And I was not screaming... ) Screaming is ALL CAPITOL LETTERS! I'm just a passionate strong writer..
But I was/am upset over all of this lax border invasions. My feelings for that is never going to change.
The love I have for my country and the way I see it sliding down in all the values I hold dear, just scares the living hell out of me.
It scares me for the remaining days that I have left on earth and it really scares me for what my grandchildren and family have to deal and contend with the remaining days of their lives.
If you thought it was an attack on your opinion ............you're right.
It was.
Liberals and Conservatives have been arguing issues for decades and it will never stop.
Strong feelings and opinions and debates usually tend to lean toward the attack mode.
Was I ...."not polite"? You said I called you names? Where?
Auuhhmmmm...... I do not anywhere notice that I was personally 'not polite' to you in this post or in any any post in this forum ..
that you call "MY house".
Funny that you would say that it is "mine" when in fact , I have countless times let it be known that it is everyone's forum.. with open doors to all who want to come inside. With all their beliefs and opinions. Just because I might believe differently and speak out, doesn't make me any different than any other member. In fact, that is what I am.... is a member.
And on more than one occasion , I have also commended everyone for making and keeping this forum alive.
I am not conceited or self absorbed enough to think that this is MY forum.. Anyone can build something.. but to keep it from dying and being buried, cannot be accomplished by one or two persons. The cyber grave yard is living proof of that.
For it is full of failed forums and websites.
My house here on Wabash street is a place that I need no one to help it become and stay,"my home"..
This forum is a community home. I may be the janitor, but it is still a community home.
If you took my STRONG opinions about illegal immigration personally, then I guess that is something that you will have to come to terms with yourself. Unless you are an illegal immigrant.. you can view my post as simply my opinion.
If you happen to be an illegal immigrant ...THEN you can most definitely take everything I said personally.
I believe the way I do... as most strong willed (and sometimes ignorant, ((myself included)) ) people do.
Am I always right? Definitely not, and I have on many many occasions sat on the fence with the logical side of my butt on one post and the soft emotional heart side of my butt on the other.
THAT ..in my humble opinion is why this issue is such a time bomb.
I am strong in some of my opinions..others I am not. I happen to be a very easy going, roll with the flow peace maker.. UNLESS my button is pushed.
Sorry to burst your bubble Kermit, but YOU personally didn't push my button.. the issue does.. every single time.
Last.. you said............
"I don't go someplace where the hostess calls me names. It's bad manners and horrible forum moderation.".
Once again.......I didn't call you names...
And bad manners? For strongly stating my opinion and not playing 2 ends against the middle?
I am not the type to "feed everyone sh** and tell them it's sugar."
We have enough of that in this country.
As far as forum moderation? I don't claim to be the best or perfect. I just do the best I can with the human factors
of imperfection working overtime..
Whether it is a forum of 4,000, or 400 or 40...
I just do the best I can.
Sorry if it doesn't meet your approval.
Now..one more thing. Your feathers may be all ruffled up after reading this.. That is the part of a forum I really hate.
It cause more problems than it should..
That is the one main problem with keyboards and monitor screens. Unless you have met the person.you can not see the body language, the facial expressions or know how they say things and by knowing that person,..hearing their voice and being able to know if they are pissy or not.
In the case of me and the way I am.. that I can get mad ..spout off.. and in 2 minutes I can be laughing and hugging you.
And also my friends can spout off to me..and get right ugly.. and they know that anytime they want to be over it..I am ready to hug and get back to normal. I do not carry a personal grudge. Sometimes in the past I should have.. but I don't.
I am more on the get it off your chest..and get back to being friends.
So ...............you had your say, I had mine.. ( about the issues) you had your say and I had mine ( about the personal)
We don't agree much... so?
I'm okay with everything and ready to stay friends....
if you are.......that's fine... if you are not....that is your choice.
((And my day isn't really that great so far.. :-\ so I can't add our little trademark of saying have a nice day stuff.. ;) ))
but I really hope this minor cat spitting hasn't ruined your day, and that you really DO have a good afternoon.. :) :)
T.
Stay in there Teresa, We should have those laws here. I am tired of my tax dollars helping illegal's coming to this country to be able to live on programs that should be directed to the elderly ,homeless or people that need medical assistance. I wonder how many people born in American are moving to Mexico or for that matter to any other country in the world to live.
I for one do not like the bleeding hearts that are in politics, all they are doing is padding their pockets.
Our daughter will be leaving for Iraq the end of September, her only thought is to keep America free of people that hate us. She is willing to fight to do so. All of the Armed Forces now are made up of our youth that volunteered to serve and protect this country. If the American people do not stand behind our military then they also should leave the country.
So, I say we need laws to keep our country safe and secure.
Army Mom
I am one of the many legal "aliens" (btw... I smile every time I hear or read the word alien) who has gone through the system and the many checkpoints that sum up the current immigration laws.
Now.... what is interesting is the fact that the immigrations laws are strict and should set a standard that should work.
So why do we have immigration problems? The simple truth is that we have a growing population in the world that has a different view on respecting the laws and cultures in other countries. Immigration has also become an effective and long term artillery weapon system used by political and religous leaders to conquer other countries. Illegal and also legal immigrants can be used as effective soldiers in such a campaign. Invade in silence, hide among the enemy and change and conquer within.
When we add the fact that liberal views are fueled by the need to show the world that the humanitarian facade is more important than facing the consequences of the worldwide cultural and religious wars, we are heading for bigger problems than we can handle.
Enforcing the current laws should be sufficient. But....as long as there are groups of citizens who line up wanting to be "nice" by protesting against their own current laws, proposing more liberal policies, hiring illegals and in fact establishing an economy and business ventures based on cheap labor, the enforcement becomes impossible.
And believe me, this is not just a US problem.
Some interesting reading material:
Immigration Problems in Norway: Lessons for the United States (http://muddlingtowardmaturity.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/05/immigration_pro.html)
Look to Europe (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTU4YzMwYmRjZDkyMWE2NzgzOWRkZDRlNTFiM2QzNGI=)
I got a solution, did you all forget?? Dig a moat the length of the mexican/american border - take the dirt and build a bigger dike in New Orleans, fill the moat with water from all the flooding going on, get the excess alligators from Florida to put in the moat - problem solved.
Kjell, I get your point. Illegal "aliens" I see as from outer space - Illlegal immigrants are what we have, the key word being ILLEGAL and there is no gray area.
Now then, we have something of a moat, the Rio Grande River. ;D If we dig it deeper, New Mexico will take the dirt, mound it in rows and grow chilies on it. I doubt Home Land Security will let New Orleans build a better levy system, too much paperwork. FEMA, that used to be a great agency, has been politically neutralized so they can't get anything done, and if you put alligators in the water, the illegals will ride them across and then eat them. Don't you love politics? :P
>:( well, I guess scratch that :-\
At one time it was planned or talked about replacing the Panama Canal with a new much wider and much longer ocean level canal.
The canal would have entered from the Gulf of Mexico following the Rio Grande River and staying just inside the southern border of the US going to the Pacific Ocean. The location would give the US total sovereignty over the canal without having to deal with another country.
Digging supposedly would not have taken as long as the Panama Canal because they were going to use underground nuclear bomb blasts to clear the way.
How to get rid of the Trash
I have a friend who has a friend who is president of his homeowners'
association in the Washington, D.C. suburbs. They were having a terrible
problem with litter near some of his association's homes. The reason
according to Wallace (my friend's friend) is that six very large, luxurious
new houses are being built right next to their community.
The trash was coming from the Mexican laborers working at the construction sites and included bags from McDonalds, Burger King and 7-11, plus coffee cups, napkins, cigarette butts, coke cans, empty bottles, etc. He went to see the site supervisor and even the general contractor, politely urging them to get their workers not to litter the neighborhood, all to no avail.
He called the city, county, and police and got no help there either.
So here's what his community did. They organized about twenty folks, named themselves the "Inner Neighborhood Services" group, and arranged to go out at lunch time and "police" the trash themselves. It is what they did while picking up the trash that is so hilarious.
They bought navy blue baseball caps and had the initials "INS" embroidered in gold on the caps. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what
they hoped people might mistakenly think the letters really stood for.
After the Inner Neighborhood Services group's first lunch time pickup
detail, with all of them wearing their caps and some carrying cameras, 46
out of the total of 68 construction workers did not show up for work the
next morning, and they haven't come back yet. It's been ten days now. The
general contractor, I'm told, is madder than hell, but can't say anything
publicly because he could be busted for hiring illegal aliens. Wallace and
his bunch can't be accused of impersonating federal personnel, because they have the official name of the group recorded in their homeowner association minutes along with a notation about the vote to approve
formation of the new subcommittee. And besides, they informed the INS in
advance of their plans and according to Wallace the INS said basically,
"Have at it"!
Awesome, now thats good ole American ingenuity at work!!!
My two cents worth. The only thing I disagree with about the illegal immigrants is that they don't serve any time for the crimes they commit. That is not true. I've worked at the prison for two months now and this Wednesday, the second inmate from my cell house will be leaving with I.C.E. (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). These inmates served their time for Kansas. The first inmate was taken by I.C.E. and taken back to Mexico. The second inmate will leave on Wednesday, (after serving his time for Kansas), and I.C.E. will take him to some federal pen to serve some federal time. After that, he will go back to Mexico. I have not asked this latest one if he is going to try and come back. I just don't want to know.
When I was sheriff, we would get a few, (very few), illegals. It was hard to get immigration to come and get them. They would not come if we had not charged the illegal with a felony. I really don't know the answer to the problem. I think our resources are so overwhelmed. The fence may be a good thing. Do I blame them for wanting to come to America? No. However; they should do it legally. Even though we are a "Super Power" we cannot keep helping these people. What is a country to do? I don't know. I think I'll leave it up to the politicians and I'll keep paying my taxes, so that we will have the money to do whatever needs to be done.
It seems to the problem here is LEGAL AMERICANS. You all might know them as our great law makers at the Federal level and the State level.. Why do we call them our representives???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? I wonder everyday why we can't elect some real people to deal with our issues.
Perhaps crossing the border illegally should become a primary felony in itself. And an even bigger deal if weapons are ever involved, with no plea agreements. We somehow have to make these people afraid to become illegal immigrants. Being nice about it sure hasn't worked. I can't imagine the nonviolent ones will become violent, and the ones with violent tendencies will be violent no matter what. This country has just got to become unified on this issue.
I was 8 years old when WW2 STARTED. My whole childhood {I lived in fear for my country! I didn't think I would have to go through the fear again. But I am very fearful of the way things are going on now. AgainI am very very afraid!
Janet said that a couple of illegals did some time.. well that's great... but.......what about the other million out there in the big cities that are NOT doing time?
just an example....
After three college kids were murdered in Newark, New Jersey, allegedly by an illegal immigrant from Peru and a foreign national from Nicaragua, questions were asked about why those men were on the streets when they both had violent criminal histories. The answer was authorities in New Jersey didn't report the men or any other foreign criminal to the feds upon arrest.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103 (http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103)
Click on this link and go down to "previous stories"..
It makes me sick that all this is going on.. most of these dark sided illegal immigrant felons were arrested and let go.... ?!!?
SAY WHAT??
The authorities KNEW they were illegals and they were turned out on our streets again? The same as the ones who harbor and hide them..
I think the people that turned them back on the streets should be arrested and sent to jail! Their jobs are to protect.. not to knowingly let them go when they should be shipped back.
As far as......... "I think I'll leave it up to the politicians and I'll keep paying my taxes, so that we will have the money to do whatever needs to be done."
Yeah right... whatever~
I guess I am just waaaayyy to emotional on this subject..
Generally I really DO see gray areas in things...but there are a couple issues that are so black and white to me that it is scary...
One being our 2nd amendment rights..and another being the illegal immigration problem.
( I want to add that I do not state my opinions against anyone else's opinions on a "personal" level. )
Let's welcome Ted Nugent to the thread and let's hear what he thinks about this subject.
Those Del State kids that were killed in N.J....That has really upset this whole area, but we have to be careful that we don't become prey to slanted journalism. The drunk driver thing. "They" make it sound like a lot of people are killed by drunk illegals, but I never see any stats, by the same author, on the number of deaths caused by drunks who aren't illegals. So can a person can really make a true comparison? N.J. is in a heap of trouble over those guys being turned loose, and the ripples will be felt far and wide, if it isn't just buried. They didn't reported it to the Feds because they are a sanctuary state. Once again there will be a big deal made about the number of MVA deaths over Labor Day weekend. But "they" never tell us how many are killed on a regular weekend. So how can we compare? Now will we worry about how many were illegal drunks as well as regular home grown drunks? The college kids are coming back as we speak, there will be a lot of drunk kids keeping our local police busy for the next few days. Unfortunately illegals will be the last thing on their minds. On a personal note Newark, N.J. pronounces Newark..Newerk, all slurred together. We pronounce our Newark, Delaware... New Ark. as in the new ark of the covenant. We are having our 250th anniversary next year.
Ted Nugent makes more sense than most of the others, and he has the guts to state it like it is!
--- Why does it seem that people start out on one thought --then merge it with a whole lot of other sides and when the thought is finally completed - it doesn't make ANY SENSE at all, and is totally away from the original topic? To me --- that is why NOTHING gets done -- just mealy-mouth around things, then you can never be caught saying something that you could be held accountable for. Mess all sort of things together -- say NOTHING that will bring an issue to a closure. Take a bow and back away and that way you are off the hook !!
We are in desperate need of some "Movers and Shakers" in this country.
I so agree with you Jo. It just doesn't seem to matter who you put in office. That is what is so sad! They all talk the talk, but never seem to walk the walk.
You would think some of those illegals would be ready to go home, one hell of a lot of our jobs have gone to their country!
In today's Wilmington paper there was more on the business of the illegals. Now the finger pointing has started again. The N.J. legal folks are saying the Feds won't take them, and the Feds are saying they don't have enough places to put them, and the states aren't sending people to the training needed to "handle" illegals, whatever that means. The police chief of Georgetown Del .recently took the course and was being commended for having done so. A friend of mine is our U.S. Marshal, and I'm going to ask him what the heck is going on. Perhaps our political correctness boat is sinking.
It will be interesting to hear what he will have to say.
I'm sure you won't let him off the hook too easy Diane.. ;)
Oh, yeah. Ted Nugent said it all. I think now that I want to take my gun and go do a stand on the border. Maybe it will then get through the pigheaded politicians heads that the fence needs to be built. Not just a portion, but the entire fence. I'm ready to rock and roll.
Atta Girl!
Now THAT'S the Ta Ta I know and love.
Wait a minute.. I need to gather up my stuff too.
lets see.. guns ammo, holsters, hammer, nails and LOTS of energy...
We have Mama, Flo, Diane, Joanna. Roma Jean, Jody, Wilma, Sally. Bonnie
(http://www.cascity.com/howard/animations/143.gif)
I guess we do need to wait for Waldo, Danny & Kjell.
Men ARE handy to have when building a huge fence and guarding borders. :)
TED NUGENT FOR PRESIDENT
Wait a minute.. I need to gather up my stuff too.
lets see.. guns ammo, holsters, hammer, nails and LOTS of energy...
We have Mama, Flo, Diane, Joanna. Roma Jean, Jody, Wilma, Sally. Bonnie
Energy? Maybe Jo and I could furnish the group with sandwiches and iced tea, "or something!"
Sounds good to me!
Oh---Now do you all see why I call Bonnie my good friend???? Bonnie B. you just saved our weary old backsides giggle giggle
Sandwiches - cookies and ice tea for all................if you need a cold cloth for your heads - we can do that too.
As Ted Nugent said ---WHAT IS THE NATIONAL GAURD FOR? Let them do what they are supposed to do -- take off the hand cuffs and let them do their job as only they can do!!
Sounds good to me. The more riled up I get, the hungrier I get.
(As an old boyfriend used to say, "There are two things you never want Roma to be, one is bored and
the other is hungry. Neither one is pretty.") ;)
The National Guards are the "Armies of the Governors," and have limited powers to cross state lines or have police powers, as weird as that may seem. That was one of the problems with Katrina too. There is a whole "doctrine of unintended consequences" problem, that if you do one thing, it tips over something else. A lot of laws would have to be changed. It's more complicated than you might think. A lot of it has to do with who pays for what and follow ups on promises made, that aren't kept in a reasonable time frame, if at all.
Ks. Nationl Guard has already been to Az. I don't know how long they stayed or what there assignment was.
Diane,
Another way of putting it is the respective governor is the commander-in-chief of his state National Guard, air and army. Under the Kansas Constitution, the Kansas governor has the authority to draft every able bodied between ages twenty-one and forty-five should the state be invaded.
If units of a state guard get federalized, then the president becomes their commander-in-chief and they have authority to do anything the regular army can do. Recall that Eisenhower took the Arkansas National Guard away from Orval Faubus under those procedures. They usually come under control of a federal command when that happens. I believe the units in Iraq have been federalized for the duration of their assignment.
The last I was aware of a few years ago there were about seven states and they might have all been in the east having organized militias in addition to the National Guard. (Not the right wing ideologues we have heard about over the years.)
If the entire state guard gets federalized, the militias are mobilized to take the place of the guard for emergencies, etc.
Thanks, you said very nicely what I was trying to say. Some states try not to federalize during disasters because some insurance policies have escape clauses so they don't have to pay off. Our guard sent some units to help with the Texas flooding. The governors can ask each other for help, but it's very specific what they are allowed to do. I don't think they would be allowed to scoop up some illegals while they are at it. I had forgotten about the Orval Faubus situation. The lawyers would probably have a field day if someone tried to do that now. Some states are indeed talking about militias again because they are so short handed.
The Kansas National Guard went to Arizona and built fence. I can't remember how many miles or anything like that, but they built fence.
We have many friends who are retired military and they think this is a job for the National Guard - and it should be utilized.
Someone is going to have to step up to the plate before long - or the final inning is going to be looking us in the face.
I agree, but there seems to be no easy agreement as to what is "politically correct." I know the state money to pay the National Guard is an issue. Another unfunded mandate? I'm not sure I'm ready for another "Kent State" either. Some very level heads will have to prevail.